Irishman faces jail and deportation from Dubai

Zebra3 · 14-05-2014 01:14PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Clue is in the tense you used there Zebra.

How long shoul done not visit a country because of past failings?

Should I cancel my flight to Berlin next month?

There are Roman Catholic officials in this country who should be prosecuted for helping rapists but instead they are free men and indeed sometimes even given the oxygen of publicity by RTE to espouse their views.

It's a very current situation.

Do whatever you want with your plane tickets.

I Heart Internet · 14-05-2014 01:20PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

There are Roman Catholic officials in this country who should be prosecuted for helping rapists but instead they are free men and indeed sometimes even given the oxygen of publicity by RTE to espouse their views.

Who are these people? If you have evidence that you believe would mean that the DPP would prosecute such people for a crime then you should be bringing it to the Gardai, not posting on boards.ie about it.

14-05-2014 01:22PM

Wazdakka wrote: »

I'm not saying that I think what is being done over there is correct,
or that I agree with it in any way..

But.. We have absolutely Zero right to judge it.

It is not our society... It's theirs..

We have every right to judge human rights violations and physical abuse.
Relativism is all lovely when you're considering who eats pork and who doesn't. Not for things like this.

mathie · 14-05-2014 01:22PM

Wazdakka wrote: »

I'm not saying that I think what is being done over there is correct,
or that I agree with it in any way..

But.. We have absolutely Zero right to judge it.

It is not our society... It's theirs.

We might disagree with it.. We might find it abhorrent and deplorable when compared to the moral values that we grew up with..
But...
Judging other people by your personal "moral compass" is neither fair nor objective.

So we should turn a blind eye to rape and the consequential imprisonment for reporting that rape because it's a different society?

jimgoose · 14-05-2014 01:30PM

Wazdakka wrote: »

...Judging other people by your personal "moral compass" is neither fair nor objective...

Well here is the news - that's what people do. What would you expect they use to judge these things? Someone else's "moral compass"? A herring?? It's not like the Middle East is some alien planet inhabited by creatures that are so biologically and culturally different that we can't begin to grasp their morality. It is entirely reasonable to look at certain features of the culture out there and find them objectionable and wrong from here.

ronjo · 14-05-2014 01:33PM

Wazdakka wrote: »

I'm not saying that I think what is being done over there is correct,
or that I agree with it in any way..

But.. We have absolutely Zero right to judge it.

It is not our society... It's theirs.

We might disagree with it.. We might find it abhorrent and deplorable when compared to the moral values that we grew up with..
But...
Judging other people by your personal "moral compass" is neither fair nor objective.

It's the exact same as, a person in a middle eastern area being disgusted and fundamentally offended at the liberal practices and (in his view) morally bankrupt activity of the western world.

From his point of view, he wants the world changed so that it operates on his level.
With the morality and values that he knows.
And I guarantee that he feels as strongly as us, and from his view, his point is as (if not more) valid..

Any judging has to reflect the contextual analysis of the specific situation..

I just feel that a lot of people who claim to be progressive and anti discriminatory thinkers, jump onto the "Those people are wrong because I'm right!!" Bandwagon very quickly.

Should the kidnapped girls in Nigeria be ignored too as its their society?

I am pie · 14-05-2014 01:36PM

I dislike the politics and repressive nature of that region and will never set foot in the place, no amount of wishy washy "ah here, but they're better than..." would ever change that. The lock up rape victims and built the whole filthy shrine to golden excess on the back of slave labour. I have every right to hold this opinion and do certainly reserve the right to judge the world according to my moral compass. My judgements have no consequence, but to say that we have to accept their repugnant behaviour because those are the accepted standards locally is farcical.

However, yer man had been there 11 years, he happily took the coin so he's fcuk all to be complaining about. He'll do a very short sentence and be home several times better off than he would have been had he stayed in Ireland.

Hard luck.

Deise Vu · 14-05-2014 02:39PM

jca wrote: »

All hotels are in this category: hotel whose luxury is provided by people on the breadline.

Fair point. I heard the amount of bodybags sent back to the Philipines by the Shelbourne alone is quite shocking.

floggg · 14-05-2014 03:04PM

Wazdakka wrote: »

I'm not saying that I think what is being done over there is correct,
or that I agree with it in any way..

But.. We have absolutely Zero right to judge it.

It is not our society... It's theirs.

We might disagree with it.. We might find it abhorrent and deplorable when compared to the moral values that we grew up with..
But...
Judging other people by your personal "moral compass" is neither fair nor objective.

It's the exact same as, a person in a middle eastern area being disgusted and fundamentally offended at the liberal practices and (in his view) morally bankrupt activity of the western world.

From his point of view, he wants the world changed so that it operates on his level.
With the morality and values that he knows.
And I guarantee that he feels as strongly as us, and from his view, his point is as (if not more) valid..

Any judging has to reflect the contextual analysis of the specific situation..

I just feel that a lot of people who claim to be progressive and anti discriminatory thinkers, jump onto the "Those people are wrong because I'm right!!" Bandwagon very quickly.

For ****s sake.

I get the whole cultural relativism argument, but there is limits to that ****. The right of every human being to be treated equally regardless of gender, religion or race shouldn't be seen as a subjective western value.

I don't care who I offend saying it - any cultural who doesn't respect that is wrong. Absolutely and irrefutably. And anybody arguing otherwise is wrong too.

So sorry, but there's no way you are pawning off the right to physically and sexually abuse women as just a "cultural difference."

That **** is wrong. End of. And if you try to justify or excuse it you are just as wrong.

Nodin · 14-05-2014 03:13PM

rubberdiddies wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/i-used-my-right-hand-to-say-we-have-to-get-into-left-lane-irish-teacher-vows-to-fight-dubai-deportation-for-finger-flicking-30272371.html

let's assume the authorities are correct and he broke the law. i completely understand that if you go to a country you must respect their laws and culture. what I don't understand is why people still go to these Gulf States where they impose these draconian and medieval rules.

would you be happy to visit such a state knowing that these laws exist?

EDIT: just to add, i always wanted to go to Dubai specifically, but stories like this and some others i've heard first hand have changed my mind for now

I'd be reluctant to visit, no way in hell would I live there.

steddyeddy · 14-05-2014 03:14PM

It's the culture of some tribes to practice female genital mutilation but I suppose it's their culture and we have no right to judge.

14-05-2014 03:18PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's the culture of some tribes to practice female genital mutilation but I suppose it's their culture and we have no right to judge.

Some fellow from a country where they do it, I think he was nigerian? - wrote an article in the IT to that effect

MiloDublin · 14-05-2014 04:10PM

Ads for apartments in Dubai often state 'no Filippinos'. That says all I need to know about the place.

BeerWolf · 14-05-2014 04:26PM

Couldn't give a damn about these Saudi / UAE state areas.

I sincerely look forward to once the oil's gone, for these more money than sense folk start attacking each other from within once the west stops supporting them within the next 25-30+ years.

They'll be consumed by the deserts, and become dysfunctional... that's what.

pundy · 14-05-2014 04:38PM

DONT GO TO THESE HORRIFIC COUNTRIES.
JUST DONT GIVE THEM YOUR MONEY.

Zebra3 · 14-05-2014 05:01PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Who are these people? If you have evidence that you believe would mean that the DPP would prosecute such people for a crime then you should be bringing it to the Gardai, not posting on boards.ie about it.

It's been in the media that Sean Brady helped child rapists get away with their crimes.

SoulTrader · 14-05-2014 05:02PM

Never been and no desire to visit, but one thing confuses me about Dubai. If they're so conservative, why is that every time I open the Daily Mail, I see photos of some English tart lying on a beach in a bikini with her boobs on display? In allowing this, is how they market themselves as progressive?

SpaceTime · 14-05-2014 05:07PM

I find it quite weird that people go on and on about how wonderful the place is despite all of these strange 'customs'.

At the end of the day, Dubai's an oil rich shopping centre / theme park that operates under some very bizarre medieval laws. It's fine, if you rate quality of life by height of hotels or luxuriousness of shopping centres. If you poke a little deeper, it's not what I'd call a pleasant place to live.

Women's rights are limited.
Religious freedoms are extremely limited.
Gay rights are not only non-existent but being gay / engaging in same-sex relations could carry a 10 year + jail sentence and even potential the death penalty.
Rape victims can be criminalised.
Migrants rights are highly dubious.
Labour rights are very dubious too.

I wouldn't visit the place in a fit, never mind live there!

Jarrod · 14-05-2014 05:16PM

BeerWolf wrote: »

Couldn't give a damn about these Saudi / UAE state areas.

I sincerely look forward to once the oil's gone, for these more money than sense folk start attacking each other from within once the west stops supporting them within the next 25-30+ years.

They'll be consumed by the deserts, and become dysfunctional... that's what.

''My grandfather rode a camel, my father rode a camel, I drive a Mercedes, my son drives a Land Rover, his son will drive a Land Rover, but his son will ride a camel''

That's a quote attributed to a former UAE Prime Minister, whose son is Sheikh Mohammed.

Nemeses · 14-05-2014 06:19PM

SoulTrader wrote: »

Never been and no desire to visit, but one thing confuses me about Dubai. If they're so conservative, why is that every time I open the Daily Mail, I see photos of some English tart lying on a beach in a bikini with her boobs on display? In allowing this, is how they market themselves as progressive?

because boobs.

bb1234567 · 14-05-2014 10:26PM

Wazdakka wrote: »

I'm not saying that I think what is being done over there is correct,
or that I agree with it in any way..

But.. We have absolutely Zero right to judge it.

It is not our society... It's theirs.

We might disagree with it.. We might find it abhorrent and deplorable when compared to the moral values that we grew up with..
But...
Judging other people by your personal "moral compass" is neither fair nor objective.

It's the exact same as, a person in a middle eastern area being disgusted and fundamentally offended at the liberal practices and (in his view) morally bankrupt activity of the western world.

From his point of view, he wants the world changed so that it operates on his level.
With the morality and values that he knows.
And I guarantee that he feels as strongly as us, and from his view, his point is as (if not more) valid..

Any judging has to reflect the contextual analysis of the specific situation..

I just feel that a lot of people who claim to be progressive and anti discriminatory thinkers, jump onto the "Those people are wrong because I'm right!!" Bandwagon very quickly.

Its true! I talk to a saudi arabian girl online and I find it really ineteresting learning about her country and culture. Ive talked to her all about saudi law and given my opinion on these laws and how unfair i think they are on women but she completely defends them. She 100% believes that she shouldnt ever be allowed to drive a car etc.
It boggles my mind, but its really made me think about how differently they think to people in the west.

Shakespeare's Sister · 14-05-2014 11:05PM

Wazdakka wrote: »

We have absolutely Zero right to judge it.

Wtf?!

Zebra3 wrote: »

You made the point about the lack of women's rights in Dubai.

And you're right too.

But some people (and I'm not saying you're one of them) tend to forget about how badly we have allowed children to be treated here.

But it's not as if it's not possible to condemn both simultaneously.

Irishman faces jail and deportation from Dubai

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