Irishman faces jail and deportation from Dubai

rubberdiddies

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/i-used-my-right-hand-to-say-we-have-to-get-into-left-lane-irish-teacher-vows-to-fight-dubai-deportation-for-finger-flicking-30272371.html

An Irish teacher faces deportation from Dubai - after losing a three-year legal battle against a conviction for flicking his middle-finger at a driver.............

Hayes was convicted of sticking up his middle finger during the incident.

let's assume the authorities are correct and he broke the law. i completely understand that if you go to a country you must respect their laws and culture. what I don't understand is why people still go to these Gulf States where they impose these draconian and medieval rules.

would you be happy to visit such a state knowing that these laws exist?

EDIT: just to add, i always wanted to go to Dubai specifically, but stories like this and some others i've heard first hand have changed my mind for now

wandatowell

rubberdiddies wrote: »

what I don't understand is why people still go to these Gulf States where they impose these draconian and medieval rules.

would you be happy to visit such a state knowing that these laws exist?

Cash is king my friend.


And yes I would be happy to visit.

problemchimp

No interest in going there, they treat women like dirt.

Boombastic

he's living there 11 years. He obviously liked their ways before he got jailed.

no boo hoo from me

rubberdiddies

rubberdiddies wrote: »

would you be happy to visit such a state knowing that these laws exist?

Whatever about those laws, being a woman I wouldn't go near the place.
Oh you were assaulted? Well in that case we'll arrest you and jail you for immoral behaviour. You hussy.

mathie

bluewolf wrote: »

Whatever about those laws, being a woman I wouldn't go near the place.
Oh you were assaulted? Well in that case we'll arrest you and jail you for immoral behaviour. You hussy.

Thats Sharia law for you.

A1 Sharia.

KTRIC

Giving someone the finger from a car is also illegal in Germany, not so backward in my opinion.

mathie

KTRIC wrote: »

Giving someone the finger from a car is also illegal in Germany, not so backward in my opinion.

Up ze poopschaften?

I've been to the UAE a few times and remember one time in particular in Dubai, was walking across a road and literally coming to the end of crossing when the lights changed and (not uncommon at all in the UAE) a jumped up driver blew his horn, even though I wasn't in his way, even though I was just about to step onto the path.

I gave him the middle finger.

Makes me think what lucky son of a bítch I am not to be in jail now.

WoollyRedHat

KTRIC wrote: »

Giving someone the finger from a car is also illegal in Germany, not so backward in my opinion.

Somehow I don't think you would get deported or arrested for it. Also, he gave the finger to someone in a car, who was beeping at him

It's a law which is true to a fascist and repressive state.

Wazdakka

problemchimp wrote: »

No interest in going there, they treat women like dirt.

bluewolf wrote: »

Whatever about those laws, being a woman I wouldn't go near the place.

mathie wrote: »

Thats Sharia law for you.

Ok.. I have been to Dubai quite a few times..
And, yes... The laws and customs of the culture are in some cases significantly different than what we would be used to in western society..

However,
The city of Dubai is BY FAR the most progressive and "western" place in the UAE area as regards Women and their rights.
They are making a serious effort to balance both the traditional beliefs (of both sexes) with the expectations and realities of the western countries that they deal with.

I know it's a bit off topic here..

But I just don't like people jumping straight onto the "Down with those filthy women hating bastards!!" and "The women don't have a choice at all... They're forced to wear those male oppressed robes of subservience" bandwagons without having some personal perspective or experience within the area..

Valetta

Why do people "flick the bird" at all?

Is it to make themselves feel big and important or to compensate for other inadequacies?

Freddie Dodge

Wazdakka wrote: »

Ok.. I have been to Dubai quite a few times..
And, yes... The laws and customs of the culture are in some cases significantly different than what we would be used to in western society..

However,
The city of Dubai is BY FAR the most progressive and "western" place in the UAE area as regards Women and their rights.
They are making a serious effort to balance both the traditional beliefs (of both sexes) with the expectations and realities of the western countries that they deal with.

I know it's a bit off topic here..

But I just don't like people jumping straight onto the "Down with those filthy women hating bastards!!" and "The women don't have a choice at all... They're forced to wear those male oppressed robes of subservience" bandwagons without having some personal perspective or experience within the area..

Go away with your sensible post and allow us to enjoy our fun.

EVERYONE knows they treat 100% of women like dirt 100% of the time.

jimgoose

I have never been over that direction and I have no interest in it. Dubai in particular is built on lies, illusion and abuse, and the sooner it vanishes back into the desert the better. I'd prefer a wet week in Buttevant with no money. :cool:

Deise Vu

I know someone just back from a few years in Qatar. He wanted to get a few scratches off his car to sell it. When he took it to the fender bender amender he was told they couldn't touch it until he got a police report confirming the car wasn't in an accident. This was for a few scratches off his garage wall. His wife was in a minor traffic incident. Their visa to leave (note: 'leave') the country was suspended until the police gave the all clear. He says if you are in Qatar and are involved in a traffic incident with any car with a reg below 2000 wave goodbye to your family. These regs are for the royal family and whatever happened you are at fault.

Add in the international incident involving the footballer who was basically held under house arrest for falling out with his team and you have a region I wouldn't visit if it was the only destination in the world. Anyway, when you've seen one sand dune you've seen them all. But if you're comfortable in a five star hotel whose luxury is provided by people on the breadline, knock yourself out.

Boombastic

Wazdakka wrote: »

...

However,
The city of Dubai is BY FAR the most progressive and "western" place in the UAE area as regards Women and their rights.
...

Liberal, lefty hippies the lot of them, compared to the rest of them

steddyeddy

Dubai is one of the most backwards places on earth. I've met far more progressive tribes tbh. Being a first world country does not make you civilised.

floggg

Wazdakka wrote: »

Ok.. I have been to Dubai quite a few times..
And, yes... The laws and customs of the culture are in some cases significantly different than what we would be used to in western society..

However,
The city of Dubai is BY FAR the most progressive and "western" place in the UAE area as regards Women and their rights.
They are making a serious effort to balance both the traditional beliefs (of both sexes) with the expectations and realities of the western countries that they deal with.

I know it's a bit off topic here..

But I just don't like people jumping straight onto the "Down with those filthy women hating bastards!!" and "The women don't have a choice at all... They're forced to wear those male oppressed robes of subservience" bandwagons without having some personal perspective or experience within the area..

Ah well, that's great then.

Women of the world, take comfort. They will still view and treat you as a second class citizen but their heart is in the right place.

How nice of them.

I'm sure their heart is in the right place when they are discriminating against LGBT people and abusing foreign labour from developing countries too.

So nice of them.

jca

All hotels are in this category: hotel whose luxury is provided by people on the breadline.

mathie

Wazdakka wrote: »

Ok.. I have been to Dubai quite a few times..
And, yes... The laws and customs of the culture are in some cases significantly different than what we would be used to in western society..

However,
The city of Dubai is BY FAR the most progressive and "western" place in the UAE area as regards Women and their rights.
They are making a serious effort to balance both the traditional beliefs (of both sexes) with the expectations and realities of the western countries that they deal with.

I know it's a bit off topic here..

But I just don't like people jumping straight onto the "Down with those filthy women hating bastards!!" and "The women don't have a choice at all... They're forced to wear those male oppressed robes of subservience" bandwagons without having some personal perspective or experience within the area..

If Dubai is the "most progressive and "western" place in the UAE area as regards Women and their rights" then I'd love to visit the other areas ...

A Norwegian woman who was imprisoned in Dubai after telling police she had been raped won her fight for freedom on Monday as the emirate's ruler pardoned her for the crime of extramarital sex.

Ms Dalelv had been convicted by a Dubai court last week of extramarital sex, perjury and consuming alcohol without a permit and sentenced to 16 months in prison. The verdict, she told press, was a shock - coming despite DNA, medical and witness evidence that she said proved her claims.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/dubai/10195552/Norwegian-rape-case-woman-allowed-to-leave-Dubai.html

Wazdakka

Wazdakka wrote: »

But I just don't like people jumping straight onto the "Down with those filthy women hating bastards!!" and "The women don't have a choice at all... They're forced to wear those male oppressed robes of subservience" bandwagons without having some personal perspective or experience within the area..

I didn't say either of those things
They do give a lot of trouble to rape victims and may or may not prosecute them, it's a law not a bandwagon.
I'm sure it is nicer for women in that you'll only get jail instead of jail AND lashes for being raped, but I'd rather neither if the worst happened

The other laws it has I don't mind about if I were to change my mind about going. It might be interesting to see as a curiosity, the giant malls and hotels and what have you. If you have a load of money anyway!

Didn't they arrest someone for having poppy seeds from an airport bun on his shoe or something??

problemchimp

Wazdakka wrote: »

Ok.. I have been to Dubai quite a few times..
And, yes... The laws and customs of the culture are in some cases significantly different than what we would be used to in western society..

However,
The city of Dubai is BY FAR the most progressive and "western" place in the UAE area as regards Women and their rights.
They are making a serious effort to balance both the traditional beliefs (of both sexes) with the expectations and realities of the western countries that they deal with.

I know it's a bit off topic here..

But I just don't like people jumping straight onto the "Down with those filthy women hating bastards!!" and "The women don't have a choice at all... They're forced to wear those male oppressed robes of subservience" bandwagons without having some personal perspective or experience within the area..

Women’s Rights

The UAE adjudicates family law and personal status matters for Muslims pursuant to interpretations of Islamic law, with no option to seek adjudication pursuant to a civil code. The law in particular discriminates against women by granting men privileged status in matters of divorce, inheritance, and child custody.Emirati women can obtain a divorce through khul’a (a no-fault divorce) thereby losing their financial rights. They may only ask for a divorce in exceptional circumstances. Females can only inherit one-third of assets while men are entitled to inherit two-thirds.
The law further discriminates against women by permitting Emirati men, but not women, to have as many as four polygamous marriages and forbidding Muslim women, but not men, from marrying non-Muslims. Emirati women married to non-citizens do not automatically pass citizenship to their children, a right enjoyed by Emirati men married to foreign spouses.
Despite the existence of shelters and hotlines to help protect women, domestic violence remains a pervasive problem.The penal code gives men the legal right to discipline their wives and children, including through the use of physical violence.The Federal Supreme Court has upheld a husband’s right to “chastise” his wife and children with physical abuse.
In the September elections 85 women out of 450 ran for 20 FNC seats. Only one woman was voted into office.

Human rights watch report, have a read.
Giving your wife and kids a few digs is very progressive.

problemchimp

floggg wrote: »

Ah well, that's great then.

Women of the world, take comfort. They will still view and treat you as a second class citizen but their heart is in the right place.

How nice of them.

I'm sure their heart is in the right place when they are discriminating against LGBT people and abusing foreign labour from developing countries too.

So nice of them.

Good user name!

AlanG

Haven spoken with a friend who lives there it is pretty much a three level apartheid system.
Emiratis on top, Europeans in the middle and Sri-Lankins/Indians below.
If an Emirati accuses you of anything you have no hope of any justice.

Wazdakka

floggg wrote: »

Ah well, that's great then.

Women of the world, take comfort. They will still view and treat you as a second class citizen but their heart is in the right place.

How nice of them.

I'm sure their heart is in the right place when they are discriminating against LGBT people and abusing foreign labour from developing countries too.

So nice of them.

problemchimp wrote: »

Women’s Rights.....

Human rights watch report, have a read.
Giving your wife and kids a few digs is very progressive.

I'm not saying that I think what is being done over there is correct,
or that I agree with it in any way..

But.. We have absolutely Zero right to judge it.

It is not our society... It's theirs.

We might disagree with it.. We might find it abhorrent and deplorable when compared to the moral values that we grew up with..
But...
Judging other people by your personal "moral compass" is neither fair nor objective.

It's the exact same as, a person in a middle eastern area being disgusted and fundamentally offended at the liberal practices and (in his view) morally bankrupt activity of the western world.

From his point of view, he wants the world changed so that it operates on his level.
With the morality and values that he knows.
And I guarantee that he feels as strongly as us, and from his view, his point is as (if not more) valid..

Any judging has to reflect the contextual analysis of the specific situation..

I just feel that a lot of people who claim to be progressive and anti discriminatory thinkers, jump onto the "Those people are wrong because I'm right!!" Bandwagon very quickly.

suicide_circus

The sooner the oil runs out on these cünts, the better. Then they can return to their desert ways without westerners interfering. Backward medevial citadels built on the corpses of poor foreign workers dressed up as modern playgrounds for their crass and classless citizens.

Zebra3

problemchimp wrote: »

No interest in going there, they treat women like dirt.

Whereas here we don't prosecute those who facilitated and protected child rapists.

Some still in the RC Church given airtime by our taxpayer funded tv news.

suicide_circus

Zebra3 wrote: »

Whereas here we don't prosecute those who facilitated and protected child rapists.

Some still in the RC Church given airtime by our taxpayer funded tv news.

Ah change the ****ing tune

problemchimp

Zebra3 wrote: »

Whereas here we don't prosecute those who facilitated and protected child rapists.

Some still in the RC Church given airtime by our taxpayer funded tv news.

I agree with you there but that doesn't change my view on my original post. What's your point and why am I quoted in it?

Zebra3

suicide_circus wrote: »

Ah change the ****ing tune

Why should I?

problemchimp wrote: »

I agree with you there but that doesn't change my view on my original post. What's your point and why am I quoted in it?

You made the point about the lack of women's rights in Dubai.

And you're right too.

But some people (and I'm not saying you're one of them) tend to forget about how badly we have allowed children to be treated here.

I Heart Internet

Zebra3 wrote: »

You made the point about the lack of women's rights in Dubai.

And you're right too.

But some people (and I'm not saying you're one of them) tend to forget about how badly we have allowed children to be treated here.

Clue is in the tense you used there Zebra.

How long shoul done not visit a country because of past failings?

Should I cancel my flight to Berlin next month?

Zebra3

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Clue is in the tense you used there Zebra.

How long shoul done not visit a country because of past failings?

Should I cancel my flight to Berlin next month?

There are Roman Catholic officials in this country who should be prosecuted for helping rapists but instead they are free men and indeed sometimes even given the oxygen of publicity by RTE to espouse their views.

It's a very current situation.

Do whatever you want with your plane tickets.

I Heart Internet

Zebra3 wrote: »

There are Roman Catholic officials in this country who should be prosecuted for helping rapists but instead they are free men and indeed sometimes even given the oxygen of publicity by RTE to espouse their views.

Who are these people? If you have evidence that you believe would mean that the DPP would prosecute such people for a crime then you should be bringing it to the Gardai, not posting on boards.ie about it.

Wazdakka

Wazdakka wrote: »

I'm not saying that I think what is being done over there is correct,
or that I agree with it in any way..

But.. We have absolutely Zero right to judge it.

It is not our society... It's theirs..

We have every right to judge human rights violations and physical abuse.
Relativism is all lovely when you're considering who eats pork and who doesn't. Not for things like this.

mathie

Wazdakka wrote: »

I'm not saying that I think what is being done over there is correct,
or that I agree with it in any way..

But.. We have absolutely Zero right to judge it.

It is not our society... It's theirs.

We might disagree with it.. We might find it abhorrent and deplorable when compared to the moral values that we grew up with..
But...
Judging other people by your personal "moral compass" is neither fair nor objective.

So we should turn a blind eye to rape and the consequential imprisonment for reporting that rape because it's a different society?

jimgoose

Wazdakka wrote: »

...Judging other people by your personal "moral compass" is neither fair nor objective...

Well here is the news - that's what people do. What would you expect they use to judge these things? Someone else's "moral compass"? A herring?? It's not like the Middle East is some alien planet inhabited by creatures that are so biologically and culturally different that we can't begin to grasp their morality. It is entirely reasonable to look at certain features of the culture out there and find them objectionable and wrong from here.

ronjo

Wazdakka wrote: »

I'm not saying that I think what is being done over there is correct,
or that I agree with it in any way..

But.. We have absolutely Zero right to judge it.

It is not our society... It's theirs.

We might disagree with it.. We might find it abhorrent and deplorable when compared to the moral values that we grew up with..
But...
Judging other people by your personal "moral compass" is neither fair nor objective.

It's the exact same as, a person in a middle eastern area being disgusted and fundamentally offended at the liberal practices and (in his view) morally bankrupt activity of the western world.

From his point of view, he wants the world changed so that it operates on his level.
With the morality and values that he knows.
And I guarantee that he feels as strongly as us, and from his view, his point is as (if not more) valid..

Any judging has to reflect the contextual analysis of the specific situation..

I just feel that a lot of people who claim to be progressive and anti discriminatory thinkers, jump onto the "Those people are wrong because I'm right!!" Bandwagon very quickly.

Should the kidnapped girls in Nigeria be ignored too as its their society?

I am pie

I dislike the politics and repressive nature of that region and will never set foot in the place, no amount of wishy washy "ah here, but they're better than..." would ever change that. The lock up rape victims and built the whole filthy shrine to golden excess on the back of slave labour. I have every right to hold this opinion and do certainly reserve the right to judge the world according to my moral compass. My judgements have no consequence, but to say that we have to accept their repugnant behaviour because those are the accepted standards locally is farcical.

However, yer man had been there 11 years, he happily took the coin so he's fcuk all to be complaining about. He'll do a very short sentence and be home several times better off than he would have been had he stayed in Ireland.

Hard luck.

Deise Vu

jca wrote: »

All hotels are in this category: hotel whose luxury is provided by people on the breadline.

Fair point. I heard the amount of bodybags sent back to the Philipines by the Shelbourne alone is quite shocking.

floggg

Wazdakka wrote: »

I'm not saying that I think what is being done over there is correct,
or that I agree with it in any way..

But.. We have absolutely Zero right to judge it.

It is not our society... It's theirs.

We might disagree with it.. We might find it abhorrent and deplorable when compared to the moral values that we grew up with..
But...
Judging other people by your personal "moral compass" is neither fair nor objective.

It's the exact same as, a person in a middle eastern area being disgusted and fundamentally offended at the liberal practices and (in his view) morally bankrupt activity of the western world.

From his point of view, he wants the world changed so that it operates on his level.
With the morality and values that he knows.
And I guarantee that he feels as strongly as us, and from his view, his point is as (if not more) valid..

Any judging has to reflect the contextual analysis of the specific situation..

I just feel that a lot of people who claim to be progressive and anti discriminatory thinkers, jump onto the "Those people are wrong because I'm right!!" Bandwagon very quickly.

For ****s sake.

I get the whole cultural relativism argument, but there is limits to that ****. The right of every human being to be treated equally regardless of gender, religion or race shouldn't be seen as a subjective western value.

I don't care who I offend saying it - any cultural who doesn't respect that is wrong. Absolutely and irrefutably. And anybody arguing otherwise is wrong too.

So sorry, but there's no way you are pawning off the right to physically and sexually abuse women as just a "cultural difference."

That **** is wrong. End of. And if you try to justify or excuse it you are just as wrong.

Nodin

rubberdiddies wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/i-used-my-right-hand-to-say-we-have-to-get-into-left-lane-irish-teacher-vows-to-fight-dubai-deportation-for-finger-flicking-30272371.html

let's assume the authorities are correct and he broke the law. i completely understand that if you go to a country you must respect their laws and culture. what I don't understand is why people still go to these Gulf States where they impose these draconian and medieval rules.

would you be happy to visit such a state knowing that these laws exist?

EDIT: just to add, i always wanted to go to Dubai specifically, but stories like this and some others i've heard first hand have changed my mind for now

I'd be reluctant to visit, no way in hell would I live there.

steddyeddy

It's the culture of some tribes to practice female genital mutilation but I suppose it's their culture and we have no right to judge.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's the culture of some tribes to practice female genital mutilation but I suppose it's their culture and we have no right to judge.

Some fellow from a country where they do it, I think he was nigerian? - wrote an article in the IT to that effect

MiloDublin

Ads for apartments in Dubai often state 'no Filippinos'. That says all I need to know about the place.

BeerWolf

Couldn't give a damn about these Saudi / UAE state areas.

I sincerely look forward to once the oil's gone, for these more money than sense folk start attacking each other from within once the west stops supporting them within the next 25-30+ years.

They'll be consumed by the deserts, and become dysfunctional... that's what.

pundy

DONT GO TO THESE HORRIFIC COUNTRIES.
JUST DONT GIVE THEM YOUR MONEY.

Zebra3

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Who are these people? If you have evidence that you believe would mean that the DPP would prosecute such people for a crime then you should be bringing it to the Gardai, not posting on boards.ie about it.

It's been in the media that Sean Brady helped child rapists get away with their crimes.

SoulTrader

Never been and no desire to visit, but one thing confuses me about Dubai. If they're so conservative, why is that every time I open the Daily Mail, I see photos of some English tart lying on a beach in a bikini with her boobs on display? In allowing this, is how they market themselves as progressive?

SpaceTime

I find it quite weird that people go on and on about how wonderful the place is despite all of these strange 'customs'.

At the end of the day, Dubai's an oil rich shopping centre / theme park that operates under some very bizarre medieval laws. It's fine, if you rate quality of life by height of hotels or luxuriousness of shopping centres. If you poke a little deeper, it's not what I'd call a pleasant place to live.

Women's rights are limited.
Religious freedoms are extremely limited.
Gay rights are not only non-existent but being gay / engaging in same-sex relations could carry a 10 year + jail sentence and even potential the death penalty.
Rape victims can be criminalised.
Migrants rights are highly dubious.
Labour rights are very dubious too.

I wouldn't visit the place in a fit, never mind live there!

Jarrod

BeerWolf wrote: »

Couldn't give a damn about these Saudi / UAE state areas.

I sincerely look forward to once the oil's gone, for these more money than sense folk start attacking each other from within once the west stops supporting them within the next 25-30+ years.

They'll be consumed by the deserts, and become dysfunctional... that's what.

''My grandfather rode a camel, my father rode a camel, I drive a Mercedes, my son drives a Land Rover, his son will drive a Land Rover, but his son will ride a camel''

That's a quote attributed to a former UAE Prime Minister, whose son is Sheikh Mohammed.

Nemeses

SoulTrader wrote: »

Never been and no desire to visit, but one thing confuses me about Dubai. If they're so conservative, why is that every time I open the Daily Mail, I see photos of some English tart lying on a beach in a bikini with her boobs on display? In allowing this, is how they market themselves as progressive?

because boobs.