Season 4 Episode 4 "Oathkeeper": HAVE read the books

longhalloween · 30-04-2014 10:22AM

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Ah, but Benjen isn't Coldhands!

Maybe he is on the show.

I was thinking, what if the books and the TV show came up with different answers to Jon Snow's parentage?

Mickeroo · 30-04-2014 10:23AM

longhalloween wrote: »

Maybe he is on the show.

I was thinking, what if the books and the TV show came up with different answers to Jon Snow's parentage?

Wont happen, they won't change something that big and possibly integral to the outcome of the entire series.

Hyzepher · 30-04-2014 10:24AM

I'm pretty sure we'll get to see some frequent deviations from the books from this point onwards. Although the books have a lot of content/characters, there is a lot of stuff that won't transfer well to a ratings hungry TV schedule. Some of the plots in the books take a long time to develop and there is just not enough time in the series to give them the development they need.

Graham_B18C · 30-04-2014 10:25AM

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Ah, but Benjen isn't Coldhands!

How do you know this?

A Neurotic wrote: »

The official HBO plot synopsis initially named him the Night's King but was quickly changed to "A Walker". Old Nan tells Bran the story of the Night's King in the books.

So everyone is now calling him that after a slip up on the HBO site? And there's people in here getting their knickers in a twist about references to the trailer for next weeks episode?!

Michael D Not Higgins · 30-04-2014 10:30AM

Graham_B18C wrote: »

How do you know this?

"Leaf, the child of the forest Bran meets at the cave of the Last Greenseer, says of Coldhands: "They killed him long ago." Will, Waymar Royce and Benjen Stark died/went missing only two years prior, a small amount of time for someone over 200 years old."

Mickeroo · 30-04-2014 10:32AM

Graham_B18C wrote: »

So everyone is now calling him that after a slip up on the HBO site? And there's people in here getting their knickers in a twist about references to the trailer for next weeks episode?!

I think it was pretty obvious who it was supposed to be regardless of the slip up.

Mr Freeze · 30-04-2014 10:34AM

Graham_B18C wrote: »

How do you know this?

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

"Leaf, the child of the forest Bran meets at the cave of the Last Greenseer, says of Coldhands: "They killed him long ago." Will, Waymar Royce and Benjen Stark died/went missing only two years prior, a small amount of time for someone over 200 years old."

What Michael D Not Higgins said. I'm pretty sure Coldhands is not Benjen.

Most likely he is just a wight being controlled by Bloodraven.

Graham_B18C wrote: »

Can someone tell me, the Night Knight or King or whoever he is, how does anyone know to call him that or know who he is? I never even noticed a crown (I assumed they were horns). From what I remember he was never mentioned in the books?

Either Old Nan tells a tale of him to Bran, or Bran repeats a tale Old Nan told him when they were at the Nights Fort on their way north before they met Sam.

Mickeroo wrote: »

I think it was pretty obvious who it was supposed to be regardless of the slip up.

I never would have thought that was the Nights King, I would just have assumed it was a Walker with horns and a general or something.

The Nights King was human after all, no mention of him becoming something else, or was there?

Graham_B18C · 30-04-2014 10:35AM

Mickeroo wrote: »

I think it was pretty obvious who it was supposed to be regardless of the slip up.

Myself and my GF both read the books and that went completely over our heads, a character mentioned in a story told to Bran by his Nan is hardly memorable or obvious. How and ever my questions have been answered so thanks!

Daith · 30-04-2014 10:44AM

Graham_B18C wrote: »

Myself and my GF both read the books and that went completely over our heads, a character mentioned in a story told to Bran by his Nan is hardly memorable or obvious. How and ever my questions have been answered so thanks!

It's a thing with the books that because there's such a long delay in them being released and that GRRM drops hints all over the place that huge amounts of theories have been created.

Most people or creatures that Old Nan mention are fairly popular and sure wasn't Nan just there to watch over Bran as a servant of the Others anyway! :P

Mickeroo · 30-04-2014 10:45AM

Mr Freeze wrote: »

I never would have thought that was the Nights King, I would just have assumed it was a Walker with horns and a general or something.

The Nights King was human after all, no mention of him becoming something else, or was there?

Well to be honest, I had forgotten all about the Night's King myself too but from the way the horns very deliberately look like a crown I think they obviously wanted to convey hi mas a king and he looks a fair bit different from the ageing hippy walkers we've seen.

He was human yeah but if he sill lives then he's hundreds/thousands of years old so must have been altered quite a bit. Another possibility is it's one of the original night's king descendants or children.

I'd never really read up on him before but the wiki entry is interesting:

According to legend, the Night's King lived during the Age of Heroes, not long after the Wall was complete. He was a fearless warrior, who was named the thirteenth Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Later he fell in love with a woman "with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars", he chased her and loved her though "her skin was cold as ice", and when he gave his seed to her he gave his soul as well.[1] (Her description matches that of the Others.)
He brought her back to the Nightfort and after the unholy union, he declared himself king and her his queen, and ruled the Nightfort as his own castle for thirteen years. During the dark years of his reign, horrific atrocities were committed, of which tales are still told in the North. It was not until his own brother, the King in the North, and Joramun, the King-Beyond-the-Wall, joined forces that the Night's King was brought down and the Night's Watch freed. After his fall, when it was discovered that he had been sacrificing to the Others (possibly in similar way to Craster), all records of him were destroyed and his very name was forbidden.[1] It is likely this led the lords of the North to forbid the Night's Watch to construct walls at their keeps, ensuring the keeps would always be accessible from the south.

PopePalpatine · 30-04-2014 10:48AM

Was there ever a scene in Game of Thrones where Nan tells Bran about the Night's King? If not, that was a wasted opportunity.

Having read about the Night's King on A Wiki of Ice and Fire, I want to see his Queen soon.

FunLover18 · 30-04-2014 11:44AM

Re Greyworm and Missandei; isn't it revealed that they are siblings in the books?

Re Night's King; is it possible that it is now a title and that we could be seeing a descendent of the original? Or it could be the original seeing as he turned the baby into an Other with a touch the same could have happened to him. Do we have any indication to what the Others' lifespan is?

The timeline is now definitely all over the place. Tyrion is still in the dungeon with a week left till the trial but yet Locke is already at the Wall after two weeks? It used to be there'd be weeks between episodes but I'm now getting really confused.

PopePalpatine · 30-04-2014 11:57AM

I had no idea Grey Worm and Missandei were siblings. I would have thought that their masters would have tried their damnednest to keep them apart.

Sleepy · 30-04-2014 11:57AM

FunLover18 wrote: »

Re Greyworm and Missandei; isn't it revealed that they are siblings in the books?

Nope but I can see them going that way in the show...

Missandei has three brothers, all of whom are/were unsullied. One of them died during his training, Marselen is part of Dany's army and Mossador was killed in Meereen.

StaticAge11 · 30-04-2014 12:30PM

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Was there ever a scene in Game of Thrones where Nan tells Bran about the Night's King? If not, that was a wasted opportunity.

Having read about the Night's King on A Wiki of Ice and Fire, I want to see his Queen soon.

There was a scene last season in the Nightfort where Bran told the Reeds the story about the Nights King, just before Sam showed up. Foreshadowing perhaps?

Mr Freeze · 30-04-2014 12:34PM

StaticAge11 wrote: »

There was a scene last season in the Nightfort where Bran told the Reeds the story about the Nights King, just before Sam showed up. Foreshadowing perhaps?

That was the Rat Cook no?

StaticAge11 · 30-04-2014 12:37PM

Mr Freeze wrote: »

That was the Rat Cook no?

My bad, you are right!

Kunkka · 30-04-2014 12:40PM

Pretty cool (sorry for the pun....)

http://www.glacialart.com/game-of-thrones-call-on-glacial-art/

GerB40 · 30-04-2014 12:42PM

Daith wrote: »

No he doesn't.

You make it seem like writing a book is easy.

Writing a book is easy. Writing a good book however, isn't. Writing an epic masterpiece like George Martin has is nigh on impossible so people should really cut the lad some slack and be grateful for the books/characters/storylines we love so much.

Even those who are angry with him are only angry because of the passion they have for his creation (impatience I understand, not anger).

As the great man said himself "Art isn't a democracy, it's a dictatorship". We mightn't always like it but that's the way it is..

Michael D Not Higgins · 30-04-2014 12:50PM

GerB40 wrote: »

Writing a book is easy. Writing a good book however, isn't. Writing an epic masterpiece like George Martin has is nigh on impossible so people should really cut the lad some slack and be grateful for the books/characters/storylines we love so much.

Even those who are angry with him are only angry because of the passion they have for his creation (impatience I understand, not anger).

As the great man said himself "Art isn't a democracy, it's a dictatorship". We mightn't always like it but that's the way it is..

Sometimes you'd think they're the only books in the world, the way some people carry on. Read something else in the meantime!

GerB40 · 30-04-2014 01:27PM

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Sometimes you'd think they're the only books in the world, the way some people carry on. Read something else in the meantime!

Exactly. I've found biographies to be very good books to read to get out of that whole fantasy mind set for a while. Che Guevara & Muhammad Ali did it for me while I got too bored to finish A feast for crows. After those I started back on AFFC again with a new type of appreciation and patience for it..

Daith · 30-04-2014 01:45PM

GerB40 wrote: »

Writing a book is easy. Writing a good book however, isn't. Writing an epic masterpiece like George Martin has is nigh on impossible so people should really cut the lad some slack and be grateful for the books/characters/storylines we love so much.

Even those who are angry with him are only angry because of the passion they have for his creation (impatience I understand, not anger).

As the great man said himself "Art isn't a democracy, it's a dictatorship". We mightn't always like it but that's the way it is..

To be honest what I find more annoying is the mindset of "What do you mean he's going to a convention, shouldn't he you know be writing".

Mr Freeze · 30-04-2014 02:03PM

Daith wrote: »

To be honest what I find more annoying is the mindset of "What do you mean he's going to a convention, shouldn't he you know be writing".

Conventions are fine, meeting the fans and all, its probably a nice break for him from writing, but I do think HBO is taking up loads of his time that could be better spent writing the books.

Still some of the best episodes of the show so far have been the episodes he wrote, so we can't win! :pac:

Mr.Prodston · 30-04-2014 02:15PM

I wonder will we see Rickon and Osha this season considering all the deviations in this episode and Theon last year?

Kunkka · 30-04-2014 02:20PM

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

I wonder will we see Rickon and Osha this season considering all the deviations in this episode and Theon last year?

Possibly

She's been doing a load of interviews regarding reactions to season 4 so far. However she isn't noted to be cast on the HBO site but either is Cat's actress... so you don't know.

Son0vagun · 30-04-2014 03:28PM

Kunkka wrote: »

Possibly

She's been doing a load of interviews regarding reactions to season 4 so far. However she isn't noted to be cast on the HBO site but either is Cat's actress... so you don't know.

I recall the young actor who plays Rickon, tweeted that it was good to be back in Belfast filming. He however didn't say it was anything to do with GoT, but it could have been.

Kunkka · 30-04-2014 03:50PM

I can't remember did we know that there would be scenes with Theon in Season 3 prior to seeing it?

Savage Tyrant · 30-04-2014 04:39PM

Kunkka wrote: »

I can't remember did we know that there would be scenes with Theon in Season 3 prior to seeing it?

I dont think it was 100% known. But it was kind of unlikely they'd have put the actor on a 2/3 year hiatus waiting for the story to catch up. So it stood to reason they'd have to either fill his storyline with something or bring it forward.

30-04-2014 09:16PM

I'm still annoyed they left out the Reek storyline from Clash of Kings. Reading it again now and it's one of the more clever turns in the book.

Barna77 · 30-04-2014 09:21PM

Same as Rickon, are we seeing any of Myrcella in Dorne this season?

Season 4 Episode 4 "Oathkeeper": *HAVE* read the books

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Season 4 Episode 4 "Oathkeeper": HAVE read the books