People with Irish surnames - but no evidence of Irishness

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I know someone who does that. What confuses me is why someone with a simple name like Frank Door would change to Frank O'Dooghobhghofgh Faughghghghghgh*. I'm trying to figure out if you need first aid, never mind how to spell your name.

*Not actual translation but similar idea to what I've seen before, short English last name turning into a man choking or RTE person speaking Irish.

I've always found it very odd that Frank translates to Proinsias.

In one way I get how names can be translated - like Smith, comes from being the son of say, a blacksmith and it corresponds to whatever the son of a blacksmith would have been called in Germany, or Portugal, or wherever.

But I don't think it makes it the person's name. It makes it the corresponding name in another language, surely? There's more to a person's name than it just being a proper noun. It's wrapped up very intricately with how a person identifies themselves. Ever been in a loud area and someone calls your name and you hear it clearly and immediately notice that someone is trying to get your attention, whereas you can't hear another word they're saying? That's because your brain identifies your NAME as referring to YOU. Your brain doesn't identify Eoin is referring to you when your name is Jack and some gombeen in an Irish College decided you had to translate it.

I understand translating other proper nouns, for example, Germany is not a sentient being capable of recognizing its name; it's a landmass containing (mostly) ethinically and culturally linked people and buildings and stuff. Anglophones habitually refer to that specific place as Germany - the name they've given to it. Germans refer to it as Deutschland, French refer to it as Allemange. It doesn't matter as long as the meaning is efficiently conveyed. But when you're talking about a person, changing Eoin into Jean just because you're in France isn't going to help convey your meaning even to French people when they know Eoin O'Connor and you're referring to Jean. It's also unlikely that Eoin will know you're even referring to him.

I think it's a bizarre practice that's so often foisted on kids without option. I'm sure some find it a novelty, while others dislike it. But you can't get around the instinctive reaction to your own name. You just won't respond as quickly to a translation until you've been using it a very long time.

As for people who maximise their Irishness through adding impossible spellings dashed with Fadas? Their choice. I personally think it's a little silly when you're changing an easily understood name into something impossible (I say this having done battle all my life with trying to get people to spell/pronounce my un-translated name correctly). My personal opinion is that if they feel less Irish just because their name given to them at birth isn't littered with fadas, they need to take a look at why they don't feel Irish because a name alone shouldn't make you feel un-Irish if you are actually Irish.

The only place I've seen it make sense is when people in jobs like teaching are trying to hide their facebook profile from the kids they teach.

Elmo wrote: »

Again I have an Anglicised name no one can pronounce or spell. Would not make a huge difference to me translate it back to Irish as people will still have the same problem.

Yeah, my surname is English in origin (even die hard gaelgors can't translate it) but do you think your average English speaking Irish person can handle it? Not a chance! It's just when someone changes something simple like Smith into Ni Fghamlhgnnnanrach that I'm like... WHY?! Save yourself some hassle and keep it as Smith :P

ryan101 wrote: »

Preferring to restore you real family surname, as opposed to the surname forced on your family by a long gone occupier is not "pretentious". No other nationality in this country is expected to change their surname into an english one. Irish people shouldn't feel the need to either, or be forced to by other Irish people.

Real family surname? Like, the one they've been using for decades? Come off it, you need to get over yourself.

If an individual decides to change their name to a corresponding Irish name so be it, their choice and good luck to them. But saying that people who choose to keep the name of their parents and grandparents (who they know and love) ahead of changing it to the name of some long-dead relative who isn't within anyone's living memory are being racist against their own heritage is pure rubbish. Nobody is forcing someone who's been given an Irish name to translate it into English, just like you shouldn't be putting pressure on people who have English names to translate them into Irish.

miss no stars wrote: »

Real family surname? Like, the one they've been using for decades? Come off it, you need to get over yourself.

If an individual decides to change their name to a corresponding Irish name so be it, their choice and good luck to them. But saying that people who choose to keep the name of their parents and grandparents (who they know and love) ahead of changing it to the name of some long-dead relative who isn't within anyone's living memory are being racist against their own heritage is pure rubbish. Nobody is forcing someone who's been given an Irish name to translate it into English, just like you shouldn't be putting pressure on people who have English names to translate them into Irish.

I suppose you could always pretend what I said, I couldn't care less if people want to call themselves Mickey Mouse, but if someone wants to restore their correct family surname, rather than the name given to their family by an occupier, they should be allowed to be.

You don't see people complaining about Polish people etc. wanting to retain their correct surname, rather than use an english surname.

For pure convenience, I maintain the use of the surname the occupiers gave my family, but it is not my correct family surname and never will be. I respect anyone who wishes to restore their correct family surname.

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Sounds like you may have unresolved issues, have you considered counselling for that? Please get over the whole English oppression thing, it's really bloody tedious and frankly a bit juvenile.

I suppose if you're stuck you can always try an ad hominem argument, but like it or not people can use their correct Irish surname if they wish.

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Yey, roll on 2016 so we can have more of your anti-English bulls*it. Got news for ya mate, you weren't around 100 years ago to be oppressed by anyone.

You can stick the racism where the sun don't shine . . mate

If they wish, Irish people will use their real surnames, when, where, and however they like.

The King of Moo wrote: »

Why didn't you ask him how to spell and pronounce his name? Would you do this for all non-English names?

Bingo, I wonder would get get away with calling someone at work with a foreign name "Dave whatshisface"

I have a gaelic surname, I notice that when people with english surnames gaelicize their name it ends up sounding more Irish than actual gaelic surnames, e.g. Adams (Mac Ádhaimh), I'm not saying Gerry isn't Irish, sure his mother is Hannaway which means 'The male descendant of the stormy one' funnily enough