People with Irish surnames - but no evidence of Irishness

Pinch Flat

So we've a fella who works with us, his Christian name and surname are translated into Irish - it's a hard to pronounce surname with loads of fadas. A lot of our business with with US multi-nationals, so causes no end of hassle and confusion / lost emails etc.

Now, I've absolutely no issues with it and totally respect it. When I started in the job, I was curious and expected that he went go the whole hog on Irish thing i.e. support our native Gaelic games, speak a bit of the language or enjoy the odd trad music session. None of it - he hates GAA with a passion, supports an English football team (annoyingly, refers to the team in the 3rd person i.e. we're away to Chelsea this weekend, we're buying so and so, etc.) and hates the 'iddly diddly' music. Reads English only red top papers i.e. The Sun, Mirror etc. As fair as I'm concerned, he could live in Essex and blend in without batting an eye lid.

So, open to the floor. Keep it civil please!

Merkin

Pinch Flat wrote: »

(annoyingly, refers to the team in the 3rd person i.e. we're away to Chelsea this weekend, we're buying so and so, etc.)

I really don't like him because of this and I haven't even met him.

mandrake04

If he was born in Ireland he is Irish.

woodoo

Pinch Flat wrote: »

So we've a fella who works with us, his Christian name and surname are translated into Irish - it's a hard to pronounce surname with loads of fadas. A lot of our business with with US multi-nationals, so causes no end of hassle and confusion / lost emails etc.

Now, I've absolutely no issues with it and totally respect it. When I started in the job, I was curious and expected that he went go the whole hog on Irish thing i.e. support our native Gaelic games, speak a bit of the language or enjoy the odd trad music session. None of it - he hates GAA with a passion, supports an English football team (annoyingly, refers to the team in the 3rd person i.e. we're away to Chelsea this weekend, we're buying so and so, etc.) and hates the 'iddly diddly' music. Reads English only red top papers i.e. The Sun, Mirror etc. As fair as I'm concerned, he could live in Essex and blend in without batting an eye lid.

So, open to the floor. Keep it civil please!

I hate those names pebble dashed with fadas.

Pinch Flat

mandrake04 wrote: »

If he was born in Ireland he is Irish.

Well fair enough, I'm assuming he is. It's not a debate about nationality, just about people who adopt and Irish sounding name but other than that don't bother. Can't see the point personally. If my surname is Connolly or Murphy, I'd see not benefit in adopting the Irish version, other than confusing other people.

SEPT 23 1989

this practice seems to be rampant in RTE

Putin

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Reads English only red top papers i.e. The Sun, Mirror etc.

That's nothing to do with nationality and more to do with intelligence.

bumper234

Pinch Flat wrote: »

So we've a fella who works with us, his Christian name and surname are translated into Irish - it's a hard to pronounce surname with loads of fadas. A lot of our business with with US multi-nationals, so causes no end of hassle and confusion / lost emails etc.

Now, I've absolutely no issues with it and totally respect it. When I started in the job, I was curious and expected that he went go the whole hog on Irish thing i.e. support our native Gaelic games, speak a bit of the language or enjoy the odd trad music session. None of it - he hates GAA with a passion, supports an English football team (annoyingly, refers to the team in the 3rd person i.e. we're away to Chelsea this weekend, we're buying so and so, etc.) and hates the 'iddly diddly' music. Reads English only red top papers i.e. The Sun, Mirror etc. As fair as I'm concerned, he could live in Essex and blend in without batting an eye lid.

So, open to the floor. Keep it civil please!

Have a lad working with me with one of those names, I don't even try to spell it any more and he is in my contacts as Dave whatshisface

Macy0161

Pinch Flat wrote: »

support our native Gaelic games

I really thought we'd moved on from this nonsense. Would he be Irish enough, in your eyes, if he supported a League of Ireland team, and still hated the GAA?

Davarus Walrus

You get a lot of these Muirghius O'Cabáiste types these days. Usually served with a large bowl of new-found Nationalism.

jimgoose

After consulting with my good friends Cáca-millis Ó'Flathúlach and Cábóg Ní Meanteistimeireach we agreed that I should be known as Bónapart Ó'Chúnasa.

Pinch Flat

Macy0161 wrote: »

I really thought we'd moved on from this nonsense. Would he be Irish enough, in your eyes, if he supported a League of Ireland team, and still hated the GAA?

Well, OK fair point - perhaps a narrow definition of Irishness. Didn't mean to offend. Anyway, having discussed this with him before, he doesn't support our native Irish soccer League.

I Heart Internet

Pinch Flat wrote: »

(annoyingly, refers to the team in the 3rd person i.e. we're away to Chelsea this weekend, we're buying so and so, etc.)
So, open to the floor. Keep it civil please!

I don't think that's the "3rd person".

But, of course, it reminds me of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN1WN0YMWZU

Merkin

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

this practice seems to be rampant in RTE

Don't you mean Raidió Teilifís Éireann??

mike65

I thought this would be about Irish owned slaves!

Spring Onion

It's a fad, it will pass.

LoonyLovegood

I've never understood the whole "I'm so Irish look at all the fadas!" My name is my name is my name. I had battles with my Irish teacher because I refused to "translate" it for my oral. You don't tell Juan that his name is John in England and his name is Seán here. So fcuk off with the more Irish than thou bollocks.


Although, my first name is an Irish name, complete with fada. Still, I didn't choose it. And I don't turn my last name into Ní Whatsernamecrap

shruikan2553

I know someone who does that. What confuses me is why someone with a simple name like Frank Door would change to Frank O'Dooghobhghofgh Faughghghghghgh*. I'm trying to figure out if you need first aid, never mind how to spell your name.

*Not actual translation but similar idea to what I've seen before, short English last name turning into a man choking or RTE person speaking Irish.

Mal-Adjusted

OP, what business is it of yours what his name is? it hardly needs a stewards inquiry.

mandrake04

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Well fair enough, I'm assuming he is. It's not a debate about nationality, just about people who adopt and Irish sounding name but other than that don't bother. Can't see the point personally. If my surname is Connolly or Murphy, I'd see not benefit in adopting the Irish version, other than confusing other people.

Maybe that was the name his parents give him, if his original name was Ook Maglook and he changed it to Ciarán Ó Caitnigh fair enough but most of take the name our parents give us and is on the birth certificate.

Alf. A. Male

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Well, OK fair point - perhaps a narrow definition of Irishness. Didn't mean to offend. Anyway, having discussed this with him before, he doesn't support our native Irish soccer League.

Ah yes, good old, eh, native Irish soccer.... It's not as good as native Irish basketball, native Irish karate or any of the other sports that are clearly native, but there you go.

pablomakaveli

He has every right to use the Irish version name as does everyone else in Ireland. Doesn't matter that he doesn't conform to a stereotype of what a person with an Irish name should be like.

Pinch Flat

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

OP, what business is it of yours what his name is? it hardly needs a stewards inquiry.

last time I checked this was an internet forum at which topics could feely be discussed as long as the abide to certain rules. Have the forum rules changed since I posted last?

Olive8585

What the hell business is it of yours, OP? Perhaps that's the name his parents gave him, and even if it isn't, so what? Not liking GAA and supporting an English football team means you're not 'Irish' now? Perhaps it just means that your colleague isn't a narrow-minded, prejudiced bigot? I fail to see what having an Irish name has to do with GAA or football. You sound like an irritating busybody.

o1s1n

The Irish self loathing around these parts really does get tiresome.

If you've worked in a multinational corporation and have an Irish name you've probably heard some fairly humorous pronunciations when dealing with those from other countries.

Likewise, I haven't exactly gotten it right 100% of the time when talking to some of my colleagues from Finland, Denmark and many other countries with fairly crazy looking names.

I'm sure if you asked them to use a more 'understandable' version of their name they'd laugh in your face or stare back in disbelief.

VinLieger

Im of the opinion that you technically cannot translate a name from one language to another.

A name is something removed from language so it is not possible to translate it. You can change it to whatever the **** you want but saying you translated your name is horsesh1t.

I Heart Internet

o1s1n wrote: »

I'm sure if you asked them to use a more 'understandable' version of their name they'd laugh in your face or stare back in disbelief.

Chinese people and other east asian people do this all the time (they have "English names"). Don't know if it's a good thing, but makes life easier for most non-chinese speakers.

Mal-Adjusted

Pinch Flat wrote: »

last time I checked this was an internet forum at which topics could feely be discussed as long as the abide to certain rules. Have the forum rules changed since I posted last?

you never answered my question. why does it bother you so much that a person has an Irish name without being all diddly-i about it? We all know people with Irish names, lots of whom wouldn't fall into a silly stereotype.

iDave

So what the OP is saying is he is Irish but acts English but the thread title is a very roundabout way of saying it.

When I clicked in I thought it was about someone born abroad called O'Brien (or some other generic Irish surname)

Arthur Beesley

OP, can you clarify what the problem is again please?

At least we know he doesn't support Chelsea. Given that Chelsea are unlikely to be playing Chelsea.

o1s1n

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Chinese people and other east asian people do this all the time (they have "English names"). Don't know if it's a good thing, but makes life easier for most non-chinese speakers.

Yeah I've come across this a lot. I find it very odd. Not sure if it's patronizing 'oh they'll never be able to pronounce my name, silly westerner' or if the opposite and they're just so accommodating that they're willing to change their name to make our life easier.

Either way, I'm not a fan of it and would rather call folks by their actual name.

Pinch Flat

Olive8585 wrote: »

What the hell business is it of yours, OP?

You've fairly new here, so I'll go easy one you. Anyway, here goes.

covered off somewhere in here. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057199789. Unless you're a mod, don't tell me what I can / can't post please.

Olive8585 wrote: »

Perhaps that's the name his parents gave him, and even if it isn't, so what? Not liking GAA and supporting an English football team means you're not 'Irish' now?

I would find this as peculiar as someone who's say Italian, but follows the Bundesliga religiously. Anyway not a football fan, so don't see the attraction personally of following English football (or other national leagues for that matter).

Olive8585 wrote: »

Perhaps it just means that your colleague isn't a narrow-minded, prejudiced bigot? I fail to see what having an Irish name has to do with GAA or football. You sound like an irritating busybody.

refer to my OP.

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Keep it civil please!

I Heart Internet

o1s1n wrote: »

Yeah I've come across this a lot. I find it very odd. Not sure if it's patronizing 'oh they'll never be able to pronounce my name, silly westerner' or if the opposite and they're just so accommodating that they're willing to change their name to make our life easier.

Either way, I'm not a fan of it and would rather call folks by their actual name.

I think it's the latter - they're trying to be accomodating and, perhaps, like the thought of having a name like a western celeb or something. It maybe makes things easier for them in western companies, etc.

But, I agree, would prefer to use someones' real name - but if it's what they want!

o1s1n

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I would find this as peculiar as someone who's say Italian, but follows the Bundesliga religiously. Anyway not a football fan, so don't see the attraction personally of following English football (or other national leagues for that matter).

refer to my OP.

So if an Italian follows the Bundesliga I take it they'll need to find a German translation of their name?

Or will eating lots of pasta mean they can retain their original Italian name?

MJ23

Lots of the ladies in RTE have those long unpronounceable Irish names.
Why is that?

I Heart Internet

Globalisation and multi-culturalism are good things OP.

You no longer need to stand guard at the gates of Gaeldom.

Pinch Flat

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

OP, can you clarify what the problem is again please?

I don't have any problem per se, in fact I've said I totally supported it. Perhaps I'll change my user name to liomóg cothrom and carry on. Just asked other people opinion of it.

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

At least we know he doesn't support Chelsea. Given that Chelsea are unlikely to be playing Chelsea.

TBH, I'd have to check. I was using Chelsea as an example, could be Liverpool, Man United, Acrington Stanley

sheesh

OP you do realise that the person probably did not choose their second name. probably their parents are huge irish language fans and this is why this person

lots of football supporters refer to themselves and the team they support as us. it is not a big deal.

alot of irish people support an english or scottish team. alot of irish people will look askance at you if you say you do not follow the football.


I'm sorry OP, it is you, not them

rainbowdrop

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2012/03/26/all-my-facebook-friends-think-im-really-cultured-now-says-guy-who-translated-name-to-irish/

Alf. A. Male

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

At least we know he doesn't support Chelsea. Given that Chelsea are unlikely to be playing Chelsea.

Be a horrendous traffic jam, buses parked everywhere.

ryan101

It's amazing he racism some Irish people have for their own language and surnames, most people have no idea of their real surname, and are still using the surname the former occupiers gave their family . . . sad really that they attack anyone who has kept their origional family surname, i.e. the Irish one. You don't see the Polish or any other nationality etc. feeling they have to apologise for their non english surname. Very sad really.

P. Breathnach

I have an Irish name. It's the only name by which I have ever been known.

That does not entitle anybody to make presumptions about my preferences in sport, or what music and dance I like, or the language in which I choose to communicate, or (most particularly) my political beliefs.

It happens that I am not greatly interested in Gaelic games or Irish dance music (but I don't feel a need to hate them); you are unlikely to hear me speak Irish because I avoid imposing it on people who might not be comfortable with it; I am not a nationalist.

But I am nothing other than Irish.

And my name is my name. It is part of my identity. Nobody has a right to tell me to change it.

To be fair, nobody (at least within my earshot) has made adverse comment on my name since my long-ago teenage years.

Pinch Flat

sheesh wrote: »

OP you do realise that the person probably did not choose their second name. probably their parents are huge irish language fans and this is why this person

No, there's been no Irish spoken in the house (I checked), so brought up speaking English. Fella hasn't a word of it. Family were reffered to as say Connolly and the father just changed the surname (presumably his own by deed pole?) over night.

sheesh wrote: »

I'm sorry OP, it is you, not them

Perhaps it is, we're all different I suppose.

Claw Hammer

Pinch Flat wrote: »

s(annoyingly, refers to the team in the 3rd person i.e. we're away to Chelsea this weekend, we're buying so and so, etc.) !

That is the 1st person. Maybe he is not so bad after all!

SEPT 23 1989

MJ23 wrote: »

Lots of the ladies in RTE have those long unpronounceable Irish names.
Why is that?

they were bred in the Gale Tock

Elmo

As a person with an Anglicised name that no one can pronounce or spell I often think I should just change it back to its Irish form.

ryan101

Elmo wrote: »

As a person with an Anglicised name that no one can pronounce or spell I often think I should just change it back to its Irish form.

I see little point in keeping the name the occupier forced your family to use.
You don't see other nationalities feeling they have to apologise for using their non english surnames.

Pinch Flat

ryan101 wrote: »

It's amazing he racism some Irish people have for their own language and surnames, most people have no idea of their real surname, and are still using the surname the former occupiers gave their family . . . sad really.

No, I don't agree it's racism. I have an avid interest in the Irish language, I can probably understand it better and speak a few more words than I left school 25 years ago. Total joke how it was taught here and I've made real efforts to improve.

Bear in mind also that a lot of names were simplified (and corrupted my own mother's maiden name included) to ease passage to the US.

As a matter of fact, I have researched my own surname extensively, where it came from and have the Irish translation off the top of my head including its meaning. I just don't feel the compulsion to have it changed back to the Irish translation.

Olive8585

Pinch Flat wrote: »

You've fairly new here, so I'll go easy one you. Anyway, here goes.

covered off somewhere in here. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057199789. Unless you're a mod, don't tell me what I can / can't post please.



I would find this as peculiar as someone who's say Italian, but follows the Bundesliga religiously. Anyway not a football fan, so don't see the attraction personally of following English football (or other national leagues for that matter).



refer to my OP.

Yep, you can post what you like and likewise, people can tell you what they think of it. An Italian following the Bundesliga isn't the slightest bit strange to me either. You seem very obsessed with putting people into boxes, OP.

'Your name is X so you should like Y'
'You come from X country, so you should support Y football team'

It comes across as incredibly narrow-minded.

There's nothing wrong or even strange about someone with an Irish name not liking GAA. It's not an all or nothing thing.

Arbiter of Good Taste

ryan101 wrote: »

It's amazing he racism some Irish people have for their own language and surnames, most people have no idea of their real surname, and are still using the surname the former occupiers gave their family . . . sad really that they attack anyone who has kept their origional family surname, i.e. the Irish one. You don't see the Polish or any other nationality etc. feeling they have to apologise for their non english surname. Very sad really.

Racism? Really?

Pinch Flat

Olive8585 wrote: »

It comes across as incredibly narrow-minded.

Ah, the stock response - the narrow minded trump card. You have no idea who I am. I am actually very open minded having travelled extensively and lived in a few countries.