Amish.

24-04-2014 11:10AM

mad muffin wrote: »

Yes, yes. The problem is, they take their well educated selves to other countries.

No they don't!

mad muffin wrote: »

Only us stupids

Yes you are!

jimgoose · 24-04-2014 11:11AM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Ireland has the highest take up of third level education in the EU
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/young-irish-women-are-best-educated-in-european-union-30073846.html...

Aye. For the same reason people piss away water with powerwashers. There's a dearth of people who know their arse from their elbow, though.

Pumpkinseeds · 24-04-2014 11:13AM

I love Amish Mafia and Breaking Amish. A whole other side of Amish life:D

Ray Palmer · 24-04-2014 11:23AM

Sam Kade wrote: »

All Amish can use telephones only they won't allow them in their houses they have a kiosk outside for the phone.

Not true. It depends on what Amish community you belong to. The elders in the community decide a lot of things so it can be different depending on which community you live in.

Before the recent Amish TV programs there was an interesting documentary about the Amish drug dealers. Effectively when the teens were on their year out some became drug dealers. It lead to shooting and murders etc...

What seems to be common is many of the people in the communities do not follow the laws set by the elders and are bidding their time to change their communities. How Amish you are depends on where you live.

They way they cut off family is not very Christian. The children that do leave are often stuck in poverty. They may have some transferrable skills but those are low paid jobs. Not much point in knowing old farm practices if you can't operate modern machinery and know modern practices.

Graces7 · 24-04-2014 11:43AM

ShooterSF wrote: »

Raising kids what to think rather than how to think while limiting their future possibilities unnecessarily is not something I agree with but then again I'm not one of those people who profess their admiration of the idea of a simpler life on the internet.

this is not a true evaluation. you are misinterpreting. sure sincere belief -limits- but limit is good compared to the lack of boundaries so prevalen.t today and so damaging to life and health

bringing children up to respect others is a great thing, as is raising them to think beyond material possessions

with these standards there are no limits to a childs future. they are learning how to think in a strong family and community life

Czarcasm · 24-04-2014 11:48AM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Ireland has the highest take up of third level education in the EU
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/young-irish-women-are-best-educated-in-european-union-30073846.html

If you are going to rant at least have some validity to it.

Alright then, I'll try add some validity to my earlier assertion -

Whilst Ireland may have shirked off its saintly aspirations in recent years, it appears determined to preserve its scholarly ambitions, when perhaps, really, it should stop. Renowned for its well-educated workforce, Ireland has the second best qualified young people (25-34) in Europe with 41.6% of this demographic boasting a third-level degree. Whilst Cyprus is in first place, the European average is 29.1%. However, one has to consider what, exactly, the intrinsic value of a third-level degree is, especially now that unemployment rates amongst graduates are creeping ever skyward. Does a third-level degree have any value, or does it just serve as a reminder that you happened to spend three or four years travelling to and from a college you thought you might like back when you were 18? Did you actively and consciously decide back in your Leaving Cert year that ‘yes, I do want to go to third-level so as to continue my studies’? Or, like a great deal of Irish students, did you find yourself being herded into the third-level system because that was the natural progression from secondary school, and, as a college graduate, you would become a symbol of a well-adjusted and progressive society?

Source: University Times Website

And that just about tallys with your percentages from your article from which I drew the conclusion that nearly 40% of Irish women in their 30s, and 60% of Irish men in their 30s, do not possess a third level qualification. That's hardly something to be shouting from the rooftops!

Regardless, my comment was made in reply to Da Shins, by way of pointing out that the Amish way of life and their standard of living really wasn't all that different from our own here in Ireland. Try introducing IT on the primary school curriculum like I did, you'll quickly be told "IT is just a tool". Meanwhile the Chinese are teaching 8 year olds advanced logic and math as well as various programming languages. If you want to prepare your child to compete in the global economy, you have to go way, way outside the current curriculum, where ironically, non-Irish students who are struggling with the curriculum now, will flourish in the jobs market because they are bilingual and in some cases multilingual in a number of modern European languages. Irish students will be told suck it up and rote learn their modh coinniolach for a paltry few points to get them into third level where most of them won't even last the first semester.

/rant

Graces7 · 24-04-2014 11:49AM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Not true. It depends on what Amish community you belong to. The elders in the community decide a lot of things so it can be different depending on which community you live in.

Before the recent Amish TV programs there was an interesting documentary about the Amish drug dealers. Effectively when the teens were on their year out some became drug dealers. It lead to shooting and murders etc...

What seems to be common is many of the people in the communities do not follow the laws set by the elders and are bidding their time to change their communities. How Amish you are depends on where you live.

They way they cut off family is not very Christian. The children that do leave are often stuck in poverty. They may have some transferrable skills but those are low paid jobs. Not much point in knowing old farm practices if you can't operate modern machinery and know modern practices.

your definition of christian is skewed. interesting the negativity also.

a person who cannot or will not abide by family and community ethos and

cannot and would not want to stay.

it is that persons free choice. same as with any family. stay and work in the family setting or leave and find your own way

of course there is change happening. your evaluation here is skewed.

Graces7 · 24-04-2014 11:51AM

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I love Amish Mafia and Breaking Amish. A whole other side of Amish life:D

a sick one. sad to read this. sad.

jimgoose · 24-04-2014 11:51AM

Graces7 wrote: »

a sick one. sad to read this. sad.

Ditto.

FTA69 · 24-04-2014 11:52AM

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

There's a Mennonite/Amish community down in Waterford. According to their website they have a congregation of about 300 but I don't know how many of those are 'living the way'. They have a few local businesses, bakeries, carpentry, farming, that sort of thing. It doesn't seem hardline religious, more regular prayer than zealotry. I find it very interesting anyway. Seems like a nice community to grow up in. As far as I can see it's just a slower/simpler way of life, which is no bad thing.

I met one of them at a rave in West Cork and mauled the face of her. She was a grand looking girl albeit a total oddball.

jimgoose · 24-04-2014 11:52AM

FTA69 wrote: »

I met one of them at a rave in West Cork and mauled the face of her. She was a grand looking girl albeit a total oddball.

You do realise you're now married? How are you at barn-raising?

FTA69 · 24-04-2014 11:57AM

jimgoose wrote: »

You do realise you're now married? How are you at barn-raising?

Hold on actually, are there any of these similar groups based down in the South East? From reading about the Amish lot they seem to be all yanks and this one was definitely Irish; she was more of a New Age type than a bonnet-wearing milk churning type.

jimgoose · 24-04-2014 12:05PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Hold on actually, are there any of these similar groups based down in the South East? From reading about the Amish lot they seem to be all yanks and this one was definitely Irish; she was more of a New Age type than a bonnet-wearing milk churning type.

The Amish-Mennonites are American thus far, yes - they're not here that long and primarily based around Dunmore East in Co. Waterford. Whether or not one of their young'uns would be attending a rave in West Cork is debatable, but they're readily enough identifiable - think Kelly McGillis in Witness. :cool:

FTA69 · 24-04-2014 12:07PM

jimgoose wrote: »

The Amish-Mennonites are American thus far, yes - they're not here that long and primarily based around Dunmore East in Co. Waterford. Whether or not one of their young'uns would be attending a rave in West Cork is debatable, but they're readily enough identifiable - think Kelly McGillis in Witness. :cool:

Nah definitely a different crop so. I remember her trying to explain the craic behind it, pure rural new-age reject technology lark with a bit of religion thrown in. I wasn't really listening to be honest, I was out of my mind at the time.

Sam Kade · 24-04-2014 12:07PM

jimgoose wrote: »

The Amish-Mennonites are American thus far, yes - they're not here that long and primarily based around Dunmore East in Co. Waterford. Whether or not one of their young'uns would be attending a rave in West Cork is debatable, but they're readily enough identifiable - think Kelly McGillis in Witness. :cool:

AllGunsBlazing · 24-04-2014 12:08PM

That reminds me; must really watch Kingpin again.

Thanks amish thread.

24-04-2014 12:16PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Alright then, I'll try add some validity to my earlier assertion -

Source: University Times Website

And that just about tallys with your percentages from your article from which I drew the conclusion that nearly 40% of Irish women in their 30s, and 60% of Irish men in their 30s, do not possess a third level qualification. That's hardly something to be shouting from the rooftops!

How is having the highest number of people with third level education in Europe a bad thing?

Czarcasm wrote: »

Regardless, my comment was made in reply to Da Shins, by way of pointing out that the Amish way of life and their standard of living really wasn't all that different from our own here in Ireland. Try introducing IT on the primary school curriculum like I did, you'll quickly be told "IT is just a tool". Meanwhile the Chinese are teaching 8 year olds advanced logic and math as well as various programming languages. If you want to prepare your child to compete in the global economy, you have to go way, way outside the current curriculum, where ironically, non-Irish students who are struggling with the curriculum now, will flourish in the jobs market because they are bilingual and in some cases multilingual in a number of modern European languages. Irish students will be told suck it up and rote learn their modh coinniolach for a paltry few points to get them into third level where most of them won't even last the first semester.
/rant

You use China as the posterboy in primary education and compare this with Ireland where to "prepare your child to compete in the global economy, you have to go way, way outside the current curriculum" but from my knowledge of Chinese education that is exactly what parents with aspirations for their children must also do.
IMO children in china spend an enormous amount of time in extra curricular learning, primarily in learning the English language.

I will agree with you on maths and the poor return from teaching additional languages in Irish education however.

ShooterSF · 24-04-2014 12:17PM

Graces7 wrote: »

this is not a true evaluation. you are misinterpreting. sure sincere belief -limits- but limit is good compared to the lack of boundaries so prevalen.t today and so damaging to life and health

[citation needed]

bringing children up to respect others is a great thing, as is raising them to think beyond material possessions

Yep it sure is. That's not the the part of the upbringing I have a problem with neither does it rely on an amish (or religious for that matter) upbringing.

with these standards there are no limits to a childs future. they are learning how to think in a strong family and community life

No limits? Unless of course they want to stay a part of that "strong family and community life". So a lot of limits in socially, spiritually and in career options.

Ray Palmer · 24-04-2014 12:25PM

Graces7 wrote: »

your definition of christian is skewed. interesting the negativity also.

a person who cannot or will not abide by family and community ethos and

cannot and would not want to stay.

it is that persons free choice. same as with any family. stay and work in the family setting or leave and find your own way

of course there is change happening. your evaluation here is skewed.

Grace we know each other at this stage and it is obvious you see yourself as very religious and righteous. I fundamentally disagree with your interpretation of pretty much anything religious.

One of the fundamentals of the teachings of Christ is to not hold yourself over others and judge them. That is not a skewed view that is the teaching. I am not Christian but I know the teachings. Disowning family members for not following the same rules you choose is just protectionism of the community. It is a form of control not religious teachings.

Refusing to talk to or interact with family because they don't live like you is not following the teachings of Christ. There is no ifs and or buts.

Turning your back on people is fundamentally against everything Christ taught. No turning the other cheek. Free choice it all you like but don't claim it is Christian.

Benny_Cake · 24-04-2014 12:33PM

It should be pointed out that unlike the practice of Jehovah's Witnesses, the Amish only shun if someone has been baptised, and they only baptise adults. A person who chooses not to follow the Amish way of life can still have a relationship with their family, if they weren't baptised.

That said, it's an ugly practice. I've got a good deal of respect for many aspects of the Amish but shunning is wrong, no question.

Ray Palmer · 24-04-2014 12:40PM

Benny_Cake wrote: »

It should be pointed out that unlike the practice of Jehovah's Witnesses, the Amish only shun if someone has been baptised, and they only baptise adults. A person who chooses not to follow the Amish way of life can still have a relationship with their family, if they weren't baptised.

That said, it's an ugly practice. I've got a good deal of respect for many aspects of the Amish but shunning is wrong, no question.

I have seen Amish people who weren't baptised talk of being shunned again I believe it depends on which Amish community you are part of. It doesn't quite have a central authority is how I understand it. Lots left in the hands of local elders.

Gran Hermano · 24-04-2014 12:41PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

OP you should watch that AMish Mafia show on Discovery, now that's mental.

Banshee is much better.

GabbyJay · 24-04-2014 12:42PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Nah definitely a different crop so. I remember her trying to explain the craic behind it, pure rural new-age reject technology lark with a bit of religion thrown in. I wasn't really listening to be honest, I was out of my mind at the time.

Could have been Plymouth Brethren. One of the original founders was from Cork.

Yeah_Right · 24-04-2014 12:52PM

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Banshee is much better.

Thats a great show. One of my favorites.

aaabbbb · 25-04-2014 12:56AM

While watching the show I made a few interesting observations:

1. There was power lines running all around the vicinity of the house the family lived in

2. The families barn/church thing appeared to have some sort of solar panel on it

3. In one part of the show a man can clearly be seen cutting the grass using a ride on lawn mower

What are these all about if they reject technology ?

dpofloinn · 25-04-2014 01:31AM

The Amish dont reject technology. It depends on the Amish order some are ultra conservative and do reject evrything in the 'English' world while some are a bit more liberal

topper75 · 25-04-2014 09:28AM

Yes - better to understand that they select technology rather than reject it. The bishops decide what is best for the church. For example, I believe that when they first emerged, cars were in use by those in Lancaster County, PA. Then the bishops reevaluated their impact and decided they were literally and figuratively a vehicle by which family integrity and church cohesion would be undermined and banned them.

Ray Palmer · 25-04-2014 09:52AM

dpofloinn wrote: »

The Amish dont reject technology. It depends on the Amish order some are ultra conservative and do reject evrything in the 'English' world while some are a bit more liberal

I wonder if it could be considered racist for the way the refer to people as "English"

jimgoose · 25-04-2014 10:15AM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I wonder if it could be considered racist for the way the refer to people as "English"

Hardly. It's more xenophobic I'd say, as everyone who isn't of the Ordnung persuasion is referred to thus regardless of who they are.

topper75 · 25-04-2014 10:21AM

Spot on there Ray with the racism allegation. It's clear they hate us. Let's burn them out.

Amish.

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