If there were a referendum tomorrow, would you leave the EU?

efb · 06-04-2014 08:56PM

No, it's the economy, stupid!

dj jarvis · 06-04-2014 08:57PM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The "CASH" ? If my memory serves me right the bulk of the cash went to farmers and fishermen who got paid to sit on their arses and do nothing which did nothing more than create a "handout" culture. I don't think we got as much out the EU as we think we did but having said that leaving the EU is not an option.
I can't remember being in the "throws of a near civil war" There was a conflict north of the border in British jurisdiction.

the farmers and fishermen got money from different funds to the structural funds we got - even if it was a hand out , it was money coming into a country that was starved of investment and money.

jack lynch was 24 hours away from making an incursion into derry and newrey to get the nationalists out, at the very least it would have been a civil war , if not full conflict with the UK. Along with the British embassy being burned to the ground, that sounds close enough to civil war to me.

ted1 · 06-04-2014 09:04PM

STEINBERG wrote: »

why? because we wouldnt be tied to the rules that the EU seem to like to empower on countries....... I would love to see how Ireland would have feared if we had not joined the EU... people seem to think that ohh it was great because of this that and the other,, but it seems this that and the other has this country and half its EU counterparts in finacial ruin.. but sure its all a good thing nontheless.. stop trying to pull a fast one.

we are better off out of the EU period

Your talking to your arse.
FDI would leave as would sell the foreign companies who use as a European base. We would no longer have fee trade and duty would be charged on goods and services being exported to the E.U

First Up · 06-04-2014 09:08PM

Crediting his arse with it is being kinder than is deserved.

Dyr · 06-04-2014 09:12PM

minidazzler wrote: »

I'm very Pro-Europe. To the point where I would think going on the US model for Europe might be better over all. States rights but Federal control.

The US is governed by a robustly protected constitution, the EU is not

Just take a look at the major players in europe, most of them have been dictatorships at some point, I'd rather not get into a federation with states that have piss poor track records when it comes to popular control.

tomwaterford · 06-04-2014 09:13PM

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

I happen to fully agree with him. I'm guessing I've no idea either. The EU has been a disaster for Europe's economies, single currency is a failed experiment and ceding power to an unelected central bureaucracy is a recipe for long-term one-size-doesn't-fit-all decisions that are not in our best interests. How great has the EU and indeed the Euro been for Spain, Portugal, Greece, Ireland? Not as great as it has been for Germany, that's for sure.

that is the inevitable conclusion of any political union that posters here seem to blindy advocate....power and money will always centralise....Germany and france to get more and more powerful...it is inevitable consequence

(see London economic performance vs rest of UK)

I myself would like to see EU becoming more democratic....as AFAIK Ireland is the only country to hold referendums....every country should...not follow rules of unelected offials...if this slows descision making down a bit so be it!!!

think back to the European constitution and they left Netherlands and france vote on it(I think it was them two)...which were roundly beaten....they didn't risk it a second time with Lisbon treaty (which if I remember correctly was follow up to constitution)

ALL countries should vote on treaties in referendum form....an upshot of this would be a lot stronger euro sceptics as people clever enough will see change can be made and not just loons looking to hear their voice which is by and large(not all) what eurosceptics are at the moment

*I know this is unlikely to ever happen...so I think il remain slighty weary of European dream for the time being:)

longhalloween · 06-04-2014 09:15PM

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Also the goal of the European project appears to be turning every state into a bland characterless sh1thole like Belgium. I'd say in 50 years there will be absolutely no point in any European going on holidays in a different EU member state because it will all be the same bland overregulated standardised rubbish

Care to give some examples to back up this bullsh*t?

SaveOurLyric · 06-04-2014 09:24PM

By Jove, no !

Increased transfer of important decisions to Brussels to people who know what they are doing is the best hope for Ireland. We are too small a country to run things properly on our own. Too vulnerable to local parish pump politics, small town issues, dynasty elected politicians, and with a low grade of both politician and civil service personnel. They sorted us out when we went bankrupt a few years ago, so leave it in their hands full time I say.

TheBegotten · 06-04-2014 09:27PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

that is the inevitable conclusion of any political union that posters here seem to blindy advocate....power and money will always centralise....Germany and france to get more and more powerful...it is inevitable consequence

(see London economic performance vs rest of UK)

I myself would like to see EU becoming more democratic....as AFAIK Ireland is the only country to hold referendums....every country should...not follow rules of unelected offials...if this slows descision making down a bit so be it!!!

think back to the European constitution and they left Netherlands and france vote on it(I think it was them two)...which were roundly beaten....they didn't risk it a second time with Lisbon treaty (which if I remember correctly was follow up to constitution)

ALL countries should vote on treaties in referendum form....an upshot of this would be a lot stronger euro sceptics as people clever enough will see change can be made and not just loons looking to hear their voice which is by and large(not all) what eurosceptics are at the moment

*I know this is unlikely to ever happen...so I think il remain slighty weary of European dream for the time being:)

France and Germany are most powerful because the original EU focused around France and Germany. It was initiated to rebuild their economies after WW2, while trying to prevent a reoccurence of the same by making their economies dependant on each other.

AFAIK referendums only have to be held on matters of the constitution. While I would agree that the people should, ideally, have a direct say in the affairs of their country, it really is impractical even in a small country like ours.

I see your point about Euro-skepticism, but I'm not too sure what you mean. If you're trying to say that anti-Europe sides will get a better hearing then yes, that's certainly true, but so would pro-European sides. I think an issue with Irish politics is how often people tow the party line. People will elect FF in government and support FF in referendums, even if they don't support the proposed amendment.

twowheelsgood · 06-04-2014 09:28PM

Quite a few of those making pro-EU arguments here are making the case that we were right to join (we certainly were). But that is rather a different question as to whether it would be a good idea now to leave.

I don’t think leaving the EU would be a good idea at present and I don’t think the question of us leaving alone is likely to arise. The question might arise however were the UK to leave, given that they are still (I think) our biggest trading partner and the UK leaving seems to be a perpetual possibility.

Perhaps if they did, we could stay in and simply have our won "no tariffs" arrangement with the UK, EU permitting?

dj jarvis · 06-04-2014 09:29PM

longhalloween wrote: »

Care to give some examples to back up this bullsh*t?

i think the poster is confusing the fact that most EU members have a similar ish infrastructure , with the same retailers on the main st , that make us LOOK kida the same , but for the life of me , i cant see how the Estonians or the Greeks are similar to me or each other for that matter.

some things - yea , we are all the same , but mostly we are totally different.

Stavros Murphy · 06-04-2014 09:30PM

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Im not a fan of the EU after all the silly laws they force upon us and how they pretty much forced us to pay this 200bn of debt. Also the goal of the European project appears to be turning every state into a bland characterless sh1thole like Belgium. I'd say in 50 years there will be absolutely no point in any European going on holidays in a different EU member state because it will all be the same bland overregulated standardised rubbish

Very true. One big, bland, unemployed MNC worshipping ball of Hi-Vis boredom, with little gobshytes clutching their University of the EU degree, still wet behind the ears and not a pot to pi55 in extolling how wonderful it all is.

longhalloween · 06-04-2014 09:33PM

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Very true. One big, bland, unemployed MNC worshipping ball of Hi-Vis boredom, with little gobshytes clutching their University of the EU degree, still wet behind the ears and not a pot to pi55 in extolling how wonderful it all is.

I think your complaining about Globalisation there, which has little to do with the EU.

tomwaterford · 06-04-2014 09:33PM

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

By Jove, no !

Increased transfer of important decisions to Brussels to people who know what they are doing is the best hope for Ireland. We are too small a country to run things properly on our own. Too vulnerable to local parish pump politics, small town issues, dynasty elected politicians, and with a low grade of both politician and civil service personnel. They sorted us out when we went bankrupt a few years ago, so leave it in their hands full time I say.

yes because they really put Irelands best at top of there adgenda

(see not allowing bond holder burning)
this is a big mess kicked down road until 2018-2019 when most bailout loans will have to be rolled over....Ireland has no hope of renewing these loans so will need another bailout

so by ''helping'' Ireland by not allowing bondholder burning in all reality has tied Ireland to needing a bailout once every 10 - 20 years for foreseeable future....I for one would rather see country stand on its own two feet....not rely on handouts!!!

tomwaterford · 06-04-2014 09:36PM

TheBegotten wrote: »

France and Germany are most powerful because the original EU focused around France and Germany. It was initiated to rebuild their economies after WW2, while trying to prevent a reoccurence of the same by making their economies dependant on each other.

AFAIK referendums only have to be held on matters of the constitution. While I would agree that the people should, ideally, have a direct say in the affairs of their country, it really is impractical even in a small country like ours.

I see your point about Euro-skepticism, but I'm not too sure what you mean. If you're trying to say that anti-Europe sides will get a better hearing then yes, that's certainly true, but so would pro-European sides. I think an issue with Irish politics is how often people tow the party line. People will elect FF in government and support FF in referendums, even if they don't support the proposed amendment.

I just think euope should be more accountable to its people...unpractical as it sounds...I think every country should hold referendums on what Ireland deos!!(its a good point about Ireland IMO)

I agree 100% with you about Ireland and party lines btw

SaveOurLyric · 06-04-2014 09:38PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

yes because they really put Irelands best at top of there adgenda

(see not allowing bond holder burning)
this is a big mess kicked down road until 2018-2019 when most bailout loans will have to be rolled over....Ireland has no hope of renewing these loans so will need another bailout

so by ''helping'' Ireland by not allowing bondholder burning in all reality has tied Ireland to needing a bailout once every 10 - 20 years for foreseeable future....I for one would rather see country stand on its own two feet....not rely on handouts!!!

If we weren't such amateur nincompoops thinking we were able to run a country we wouldn't have got into the mess in the first place. Fortunately, we had friends who were willing to bail us out. And many Irish just moaned about it instead of saying thanks.

tomwaterford · 06-04-2014 09:42PM

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

If we weren't such amateur nincompoops thinking we were able to run a country we wouldn't have got into the mess in the first place. Fortunately, we had friends who were willing to bail us out. And many Irish just moaned about it instead of saying thanks.

if Europe hadn't insisted on bailing out banks....and if Ireland had just saved the one to do all transactions...
would have saved us and them aload of money....these friends who just happened to have there taxpayers pension funds tied up in irish banks....we're lucky they made us save them:rolleyes::rolleyes:

*in all reality it would have been unreal tough to pull through...they would have managed...but saving them banks sunk Ireland and made needing rescue inevitable

I will never trust Europe 100% in relation to Ireland affairs after it...and I used to beforehand!!

dissed doc · 06-04-2014 09:46PM

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Over the past few weeks there have been several debates in the UK between the UKIP leader Nigel Farage and the Lib Dem's Nick Clegg over membership of the EU. I think Farage makes some excellent points and the debates are certainly worth a watch if you haven't seen them already.

Based on this, I think the European project has gone too far in every political respect; whether it comes to refusing to accept referenda results, installation of unelected politicians as leaders of Europe, gradual siphoning off democracy, and many other obvious but equally important shortcomings.

All other things being equal (assuming a normal economy etc.), would you relinquish membership of the EU if you had a referendum due to its encroaching political effects?

The ultimate goal is, I think, to find a good balance of trade, negotiation and interaction with our neighbouring countries.

The logical conclusion of a decision to isolate from these enhanced transnational organisations is to be like North Korea: completely independent from everything as much as possible, no interaction with any other country as far as possible,e tc. etc., .

So rather than saying EU good or EU bad, why not suggest the type of interactions Ireland would be better off having with other countries.

dissed doc · 06-04-2014 09:50PM

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

If we weren't such amateur nincompoops thinking we were able to run a country we wouldn't have got into the mess in the first place. Fortunately, we had friends who were willing to bail us out. And many Irish just moaned about it instead of saying thanks.

The Irish punt would be worth a lot less if we had to bail out the banks ourselves. The government would have blamed the global crisis and we would have been none the wiser.

I wonder if the punt was 100p to 127 cents originally, what it would be, based on the debt the banks and government ran up. 25-50p to 1 euro? How much would it have to be devalued to allow the country to continue without default?

Flying to London for only IEP£499 return! Wow let's rush back to the good old days ASAP!!

Iwasfrozen · 06-04-2014 09:52PM

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Very true. One big, bland, unemployed MNC worshipping ball of Hi-Vis boredom, with little gobshytes clutching their University of the EU degree, still wet behind the ears and not a pot to pi55 in extolling how wonderful it all is.

What are you even on about.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 06-04-2014 09:54PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

if Europe hadn't insisted on bailing out banks....and if Ireland had just saved the one to do all transactions...
would have saved us and them aload of money....these friends who just happened to have there taxpayers pension funds tied up in irish banks....we're lucky they made us save them:rolleyes::rolleyes:

*in all reality it would have been unreal tough to pull through...they would have managed...but saving them banks sunk Ireland and made needing rescue inevitable

I will never trust Europe 100% in relation to Ireland affairs after it...and I used to beforehand!!

You don't seem to realise how many Irish pension funds were heavily invested in those same banks.
I know mine was and thankfully I can still enjoy my pension today.

SaveOurLyric · 06-04-2014 09:54PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What are you even on about.

Luminous standardised EU toilets I think.

tomwaterford · 06-04-2014 09:58PM

Journey Strong Jacket wrote: »

You don't seem to realise how many Irish pension funds were heavily invested in those same banks.
I know mine was and thankfully I can still enjoy my pension today.

I don't really care TBH...it seems immoral to bail out banks just so people can have a private pension....the money that was paid into these banks would have paid an unreal amount of pensions

essentially taxing younger people so older people can enjoy nice soft private pension...
I find it hard to trust any bank/person selling pensions after that bailout debackle...they seem reckless and just chasing unsustainable returns

Iwasfrozen · 06-04-2014 10:02PM

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Luminous standardised EU toilets I think.

Oh yes please. Can mine have a heated seat?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 06-04-2014 10:02PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

I don't really care TBH...it seems immoral to bail out banks just so people can have a private pension....the money that was paid into these banks would have paid an unreal amount of pensions

essentially taxing younger people so older people can enjoy nice soft private pension...
I find it hard to trust any bank/person selling pensions after that bailout debackle...they seem reckless and just chasing unsustainable returns

I'll put that down to youthful ignorance and leave you to your dilusions. Time will tell!

bodice ripper · 06-04-2014 10:04PM

Yeah brilliant. Loads of small, heavily populated countries speaking different languages, separate and out for their own interests. What could possibly go wrong?

(For more information, see everything that has happened on the continent up until now.)

Iwasfrozen · 06-04-2014 10:05PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

I don't really care TBH...it seems immoral to bail out banks just so people can have a private pension....the money that was paid into these banks would have paid an unreal amount of pensions

essentially taxing younger people so older people can enjoy nice soft private pension...
I find it hard to trust any bank/person selling pensions after that bailout debackle...they seem reckless and just chasing unsustainable returns

And what of your parents? How would you feel if their pension wad wiped out? Would you replace it? Very selfish thinking on your part imo.

Davarus Walrus · 06-04-2014 10:09PM

The EU has been great for Ireland. I see Luke 'Ming' Flanagan is running for Europe on a platform of getting us to leave the Union. He's a right gobdaw. The EU has been hugely beneficial to the west of Ireland. I look forward to him failing spectacularly in his attempt to get a seat. Might be a good dose of reality for him and his moronic bunch of core sidekicks.

dj jarvis · 06-04-2014 10:09PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

I don't really care TBH...it seems immoral to bail out banks just so people can have a private pension....the money that was paid into these banks would have paid an unreal amount of pensions

essentially taxing younger people so older people can enjoy nice soft private pension...
I find it hard to trust any bank/person selling pensions after that bailout debackle...they seem reckless and just chasing unsustainable returns

essentially funding the next generation , the retired spend more on "luxury" items than all the other groups combined , the lack of spending with peoples pensions also hurts the economy , the older generation are better at spending their money locally , taking away this spending power by reduced pensions hurts the LOCAL economy.

bailing out the banks was for sure a bitter pill to swallow, but to not i think would have wiped it all out for everyone , we would have gotten free time travel back to 1980 in a flash.

it was the lesser of 2 evils IMO

Son Of A Vidic · 06-04-2014 10:11PM

My name is URL wrote: »

No.. that would be an utter disaster for Ireland the German bondholders we bailed out

Fyp.

If there were a referendum tomorrow, would you leave the EU?

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