Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

jonnyfingers · 28-03-2014 11:13AM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Could there be a case to say, let Moyes continue on as manager for another season and then when a better manager comes in, he can be compared more to Moyes than Ferguson. Every manager of Man Utd for the rest of its history will be compared to Ferguson but in the medium term, having a few crap years of Moyes could be good for the next manager. If a manager comes in this summer, he is still going to be Fergusons replacement. Moyes wasnt there long enough to say that he new manager is taking over from him.

I think one season is enough to set that comparison. In another season the whole setup of United, e.g. players, staff, training, scout, could be drastically different to what was there before Moyes, and not for the better. I'd only be comfortable giving Moyes another season if he could clearly show that his changes would be beneficial to the long term success of the club. I've seen nothing to suggest that so far. But it's a tricky one as it may take more than one season for those changes to bear fruit, however if those changes bear some rotten fruit we will have been set back by years, so some knowledgeable insiders will need to make that decision.

Mitch Connor · 28-03-2014 11:14AM

Moyes isn't going to last two weeks, imo. Will be gone before the end of the season. Sooner rather than later if the fans make their lack of faith/support vocally and visibly known.

8-10 · 28-03-2014 11:18AM

Aodhagan wrote: »

Is this plane a definite or just a rumour? I don't think it's going to happen to be honest.

Would be smarter not to do it really. There's enough media coverage and chatter about it now that there'll be plenty of anticipation before the game. Not doing it would still mean people talking about it, and you can get away with not paying for it!

TheDoc · 28-03-2014 11:23AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The people behind it said it will fly over 5 mins before kickoff, then again for the first 10 mins - so it seems certain.

Will just result in more vocal support for Moyes though - utterly counter productive.

I get the vibe you think sections will be vocal in their support for Moyes "just" to spite this silly protest.

But to be fair, and I frequent a number of United fan forums, while the over riding majority HERE might be Moyes out, it's not the case everywhere.

I appreciate that sometimes the "over riding" viewpoint can be skewered when the constant posting trend is a certain type. But there is PLENTY of genuine support for Moyes out there. And there is plenty of differing views.

I'd like to think that vocal support for Moyes is one formed of intelligent and opinion, rather then just " going against the grain".

I have slipped with one foot into the Moyes Out pool, and the water is pretty cold. A part of me feels I've seen enough to form enough basis that things can't get better and Moyes isn't up to the level required.

However another part of me feels that we could slip into that mindset of Chelsea,City and Spurs, and our expectations mean we hire and fire a manager every other season, all trying to bring back the glory days, instead of admitting to ourselves we need to take a big ****ing breathe after Ferguson, stand back, and reshape things.

That results in MASSIVE expenditure as a new manager wants his own players, purchases we've made become redundant, and then the fanbase become fractured as some felt X manager was good and right, where some feels manager Y is better and all that craic.

Like I said, Klopp offered to me now, yeah I'll take it. If he's not, hold onto Moyes until Xmas next season, if we are way off the mark again, then it's time for a change.

Like holy **** this season finishes, Moyes could REALLY sort his **** out, start being a bit ruthless and all of a puddin we have a newlook side fighting for a title next season.

I think the main issue this season is a somewhat disconnect from fans and the managers views. It's entirely possible he plans to AXE a ****load of the squad, but obviously he can't say that mid season. The only thing I can see as why the board are sticking by him, is because early on in the campaign, he made his issues and problems visible to the board, and plans on a serious rebuilding.

I can't help but feel there has been some GOOD work done behind the scenes in regards to scouting and player acquisition, and maybe we should provide him some time after the summer to see what he is doing, where he is going and how it pans out. When there is literally no more excuses.

Will I Amnt · 28-03-2014 11:28AM

TheDoc wrote: »

Let me know if my name comes up, you know I love a big debate!

I've no intentions of going back just yet.

KH25 · 28-03-2014 11:29AM

If Moyes were to go this week, who is actually available? Van Gaal seems like the only one who is *definitely* available. People like Klopp, Ancellotti, Conte etc would all have to be lured away from their current clubs.

Personally, I don't think Moyes will be gone come summer. He'll still be here next season. Based on results he should be gone but I just don't see it happening.

mike65 · 28-03-2014 11:31AM

Whens the match thread going up lads?

Giruilla · 28-03-2014 11:33AM

How delusional are people that they actually think Moyes will be sacked before the season ends? With no manager lined up? Just not going to happen.

United fans need to get a grip and stop behaving like Chelsea fans.

FourFourRED · 28-03-2014 11:34AM

mike65 wrote: »

Whens the match thread going up lads?

I'll get one up soon

Lord TSC · 28-03-2014 11:37AM

Giruilla wrote: »

How delusional are people that they actually think Moyes will be sacked before the season ends? With no manager lined up? Just not going to happen.

United fans need to get a grip and stop behaving like Chelsea fans.

Yeah. We should just wait till we grow 200m at our problems, which is nothing like City and Chelsea fans, right?

buckfasterer · 28-03-2014 11:38AM

KH25 wrote: »

If Moyes were to go this week, who is actually available? Van Gaal seems like the only one who is *definitely* available. People like Klopp, Ancellotti, Conte etc would all have to be lured away from their current clubs.

Personally, I don't think Moyes will be gone come summer. He'll still be here next season. Based on results he should be gone but I just don't see it happening.

Giggs till the end of the season. He'd at least have the respect of the dressing room and can do no worse than Moyes.

Rayne Wooney · 28-03-2014 11:38AM

I see you've all picked up on the United no.2 thread anyway.

The main difference to me is that United are discussed almost hourly in that thread whereas even when Liverpool had Roy you could go a few days without them being mentioned in a United thread because most didn't care where they were.

And the cross quoting that's coincided with this season, where they quote someone here and joke about it, lol.

On the plane thing it's going to make news all over I'd say, I wonder what the Americans will think of it.

Giruilla · 28-03-2014 11:43AM

buckfasterer wrote: »

Giggs till the end of the season. He'd at least have the respect of the dressing room and can do no worse than Moyes.

To play for what? 6th? United will more than likely be finishing 7th with or without Moyes this season.

The club will look ridiculous if they fire a man they gave a 6 year contract to mid season, after as big a change as losing a 25 year manager.
That would be more embarrassing for the club than the league position.

Moyes voluntarily quitting - could potentially happen - but I hope for his sake he doesn't.

adox · 28-03-2014 11:46AM

Giruilla wrote: »

How delusional are people that they actually think Moyes will be sacked before the season ends? With no manager lined up? Just not going to happen.

United fans need to get a grip and stop behaving like Chelsea fans.

Its not delusional, its an opinion and as valid as yours above.

How do you know he wont be sacked? How do you know Utd havent got someone lined up already?

I really hope and pray that Mitch is right. I`m doubtful but I hope he is. I thjink it would make a huge difference to be rid of him before the season ends rather than the summer, if either does come to fruition.

Lord TSC · 28-03-2014 11:46AM

Giruilla wrote: »

The club will look ridiculous if they fire a man they gave a 6 year contract to mid season, after as big a change as losing a 25 year manager.
That would be more embarrassing for the club than the league position.

1. We shouldn't care what other fans think when it comes to making decisions about Man United.

2. We already look embarrassing due to the utter stubbornness the club is showing.

Blatter · 28-03-2014 11:48AM

Looks like Fellaini could get a three match ban for allegedly spitting at Zabaleta.

Article here.

Apparent pic of incident here, although not conclusive.

adox · 28-03-2014 11:49AM

Giruilla wrote: »

n.

The club will look ridiculous if they fire a man they gave a 6 year contract to mid season, after as big a change as losing a 25 year manager.
That would be more embarrassing for the club than the league position.

The club wouldnt look ridiculous and it wouldnt be embarrassing. It would be an admission that they got things wrong and acted on it which is a hell of a lot more admirable than stubbornly sticking with your decision so you dont have to admit fault.

I cant think of anyone who would find it embarrassing and quite frankly, who gives a flying **** if they do if its for the betterment of the club.

TheDoc · 28-03-2014 11:50AM

adox wrote: »

Its not delusional, its an opinion and as valid as yours above.

How do you know he wont be sacked? How do you know Utd havent got someone lined up already?

I really hope and pray that Mitch is right. I`m doubtful but I hope he is. I thjink it would make a huge difference to be rid of him before the season ends rather than the summer, if either does come to fruition.

If the board have any inclination of removing hmi, it needs to be done ASAP.

Alot of work has gone into scouting and probably making enquiries about singings. A new manager is obviously going to have his own ideas and thoughts on players. So it needs to be done ASAP, so the new manager can review current recruitment plans and targets and make adjustments where required.

If a new manager came in the summer, it would be a disaster. The work done all season would be for nothing, the advantage of getting deals done early would be gone, and we would be left dealing with transfers post world cup with inflated pricing and competition.

Pyjamarama · 28-03-2014 11:51AM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I see you've all picked up on the United no.2 thread anyway.

The main difference to me is that United are discussed almost hourly in that thread whereas even when Liverpool had Roy you could go a few days without them being mentioned in a United thread because most didn't care where they were.

And the cross quoting that's coincided with this season, where they quote someone here and joke about it, lol.

On the plane thing it's going to make news all over I'd say, I wonder what the Americans will think of it.

Just not really true. Both sets of fans are obsessed with both clubs. It's what makes the rivalry the best in football.

FourFourRED · 28-03-2014 11:51AM

Blatter wrote: »

Looks like Fellaini could get a three match ban for allegedly spitting at Zabaleta.

Article here.

Apparent pic of incident here, although not conclusive.

Opinion of Fellaini dropped substantially after the elbow & now spitting. What an idiot. Was really hoping that he was going to start proving everyone wrong but with an attitude like that I'm not sure if I care anymore. There is no improving that incredible slowness & awkwardness on the ball anyway.

Giruilla · 28-03-2014 11:52AM

The behavior of fans this season calling for Moyes out, shouting abuse at Ferguson and this plane banner nonsense is vile and epitomises a horrible entitlement culture.

I've been very critical of what Moyes has done this year.. but any manager should be open to criticism. United are going through an enormous change after years of dominance and continuous success... was always going to be impossible to replace Ferguson.

I can possibly see Moyes being sacked 'end' of season if the results get worse, but not before.

Hococop · 28-03-2014 11:54AM

im hoping he is not that stupid to spit on him, my guess its like the Robben incident against arsenal where the camera angle make it look like he is spitting on a player

Mitch Connor · 28-03-2014 11:54AM

TheDoc wrote: »

I get the vibe you think sections will be vocal in their support for Moyes "just" to spite this silly protest.

But to be fair, and I frequent a number of United fan forums, while the over riding majority HERE might be Moyes out, it's not the case everywhere.

I appreciate that sometimes the "over riding" viewpoint can be skewered when the constant posting trend is a certain type. But there is PLENTY of genuine support for Moyes out there. And there is plenty of differing views.

I'd like to think that vocal support for Moyes is one formed of intelligent and opinion, rather then just " going against the grain".

I have slipped with one foot into the Moyes Out pool, and the water is pretty cold. A part of me feels I've seen enough to form enough basis that things can't get better and Moyes isn't up to the level required.

However another part of me feels that we could slip into that mindset of Chelsea,City and Spurs, and our expectations mean we hire and fire a manager every other season, all trying to bring back the glory days, instead of admitting to ourselves we need to take a big ****ing breathe after Ferguson, stand back, and reshape things.

That results in MASSIVE expenditure as a new manager wants his own players, purchases we've made become redundant, and then the fanbase become fractured as some felt X manager was good and right, where some feels manager Y is better and all that craic.

Like I said, Klopp offered to me now, yeah I'll take it. If he's not, hold onto Moyes until Xmas next season, if we are way off the mark again, then it's time for a change.

Like holy **** this season finishes, Moyes could REALLY sort his **** out, start being a bit ruthless and all of a puddin we have a newlook side fighting for a title next season.

I think the main issue this season is a somewhat disconnect from fans and the managers views. It's entirely possible he plans to AXE a ****load of the squad, but obviously he can't say that mid season. The only thing I can see as why the board are sticking by him, is because early on in the campaign, he made his issues and problems visible to the board, and plans on a serious rebuilding.

I can't help but feel there has been some GOOD work done behind the scenes in regards to scouting and player acquisition, and maybe we should provide him some time after the summer to see what he is doing, where he is going and how it pans out. When there is literally no more excuses.

Personally - I do feel Moyes does not have the support of the majority of fans, not real support.

I do think Moyes is probably doing good work behind the scenes with regards scouting etc - and it is needed - but I think his work on the training ground, which is far more important, is just not good enough.

I ahve said many times I think if Moyes is given the summer that he will target the right players. However, I don't trust him to manage those players correctly, based on his terrible management of the United players. He might improve/fix the recruiting structure of the club - but that is the lesser problem imo - he won't fix the playing side of the club, imo.

I see nothing in his management of the squad this season, and his approach to United in general, that gives me confidence he will change things up next season positively. Nothing in his career gives me that confidence in him.

adox · 28-03-2014 11:54AM

Aodhagan wrote: »

Opinion of Fellaini dropped substantially after the elbow & now spitting. What an idiot. Was really hoping that he was going to start proving everyone wrong but with an attitude like that I'm not sure if I care anymore. There is no improving that incredible slowness & awkwardness on the ball anyway.

Alleged spitting.:)

TheDoc · 28-03-2014 11:59AM

I took over Aj Auxxere(see sig) from a manager who seemed to have had constant top 3 finishes with them each year, I've taken the same group of players, and now leading the league comfortably and promotion most likely on the cards with the title.

Should I throw my name in the hat?

FourFourRED · 28-03-2014 12:03PM

Giruilla wrote: »

I can possibly see Moyes being sacked 'end' of season if the results get worse, but not before.

Does it get any worse than losing 3-0 at home to both of your biggest rivals in the space of 10 days?

Giruilla · 28-03-2014 12:04PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

1. We shouldn't care what other fans think when it comes to making decisions about Man United.

2. We already look embarrassing due to the utter stubbornness the club is showing.

Its not just other fans, from every viewpoint its wrong. Fundamentally not the image United should have.

ricero · 28-03-2014 12:04PM

Adamcp898 wrote: »

His dress sense is just like his performances this year pure ****e. How did he decline so rapidly.

KH25 · 28-03-2014 12:09PM

buckfasterer wrote: »

Giggs till the end of the season. He'd at least have the respect of the dressing room and can do no worse than Moyes.

I don't see the point in that tbh. Giggs has never been a manager. Moyes has more experience than him. If he's sacked his replacement should be of the highest calibre possible. Now, Giggs as an assistant to a new manager? Maybe. But as the main man? No, not now.

Also, if Fellaini did indeed spit at Zabaleta (can't click the link, in work) then I hope he gets the book thrown at him. That elbow was absolutely moronic and disgraceful. He was exceptionally lucky not to see red.

Lord TSC · 28-03-2014 12:17PM

Giruilla wrote: »

Its not just other fans, from every viewpoint its wrong. Fundamentally not the image United should have.

It's not "from every viewpoint". Its from yours. Not mine.
I agree there's an image Man United should have, but that Moyes doesn't fit it at all.

Giruilla wrote: »

I've been very critical of what Moyes has done this year.. but any manager should be open to criticism. United are going through an enormous change after years of dominance and continuous success... was always going to be impossible to replace Ferguson.

This implies there's a binary of success and failure, when the reality is there's a spectrum. Fergie is one end. Moyes is the other. There'd be plenty of options in between who wouldn't do as well as Fergie, but wouldn't be the failure that Moyes has been this season.

As for the other topic, the one about fan support....most, but not all, pro-Moyes people I talk to still don't actually have an argument as to why Moyes should stay, but rather an argument as to why we can't sack him. Less and less people will actually quote what he personally brings to the table (give his 2 transfer windows being underwhelming, his misuse of who he has brought in, a tactical ineptitude, etc), relying instead on the type of point above; that as a club, we don't sack managers. Something we can't possibly know either given its been 25 years since we've been in this situation.

The reality is, in my opinion, that there's a huge portion of the Pro-Moyes camp support him not because of he himself, but because they don't think it's possible to differentiate between supporting the club and supporting the manager; if you do one, you've got to blindly do the other, no matter what. However, again imo, a massive part of these same fans will also change their tune the second he's fired, because once he's no longer the manager, they can differentiate, and will suddenly accept it's the right decision.

(Again, not saying all pro-Moyes fans are like that; just that every team has fans who follow blindly, and will do so until the club tells them that Moyes isn't the man for the job).

Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

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