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90% of consumers think farmers are getting a raw deal

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24

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    #32
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    micraX wrote: »
    What do you mean by that?

    We all have opinions and vested interests.
    But it's bad form and I'd expect against the charter to openly attack posters in such a rude manner.


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    #33
    micraX
    Registered Users Posts: 752 ✭✭✭micraX


    bbam wrote: »
    We all have opinions and vested interests.
    But it's bad form and I'd expect against the charter to openly attack posters in such a rude manner.

    Well that mindset which many people have has the Irish agriculture sector the way it is. That wasn't an attack, it was expressing how I feel. I'll check the charter and edit if it is.


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    #34
    MayoSalmon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    It would seem the French saw this issue coming a long time ago and have reacted appropriate to not only protect their agriculture and farmers but also their identity and culture.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/05/should-we-follow-france-cracking-down-supermarkets


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    #35
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    It would seem the French saw this issue coming a long time ago and have reacted appropriate to not only protect their agriculture and farmers but also their identity and culture.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/05/should-we-follow-france-cracking-down-supermarkets

    You can't compare us to the French.
    The French have a very strong affinity with their food, quality local food is very important and saught after. You see this in every local market there.


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    #36
    MayoSalmon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    bbam wrote: »
    You can't compare us to the French.
    The French have a very strong affinity with their food, quality local food is very important and daughter after. You see this in every local market there.

    I am not necessarily comparing. I am just highlighting the steps the French legislature put in place to stop the Supermarket explosion across the country.


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    #37
    GCU Flexible Demeanour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭GCU Flexible Demeanour


    bbam wrote: »
    You can't compare us to the French.
    The French have a very strong affinity with their food, quality local food is very important and saught after. You see this in every local market there.
    Fair point, whereas we source a lot of our food abroad. About half of it, apparently:

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/half-of-nations-food-bill-goes-on-imported-goods-26871990.html

    And even at that, I'm not sure that Supervalu Orange Juice is counted as imported or domestic food production.


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    #38
    Brown Podzol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Brown Podzol


    In the Uk Tesco , through agricultural consultancy group Promar track the cost of milk production and pay farmers accordingly. Here is a link explaining the way it works.


    http://www.promar-international.com/_userfiles/pages/Promar%20Standard%20Single%20Page.pdf


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    #39
    biddy2013
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭biddy2013


    micraX wrote: »
    People with that attitude and ignorance makes me sick. You think that stuff can be produced at those prices sustainable?
    thanks .... i do the shopping for my house. Fine if i had the money i would do a full shop in tesco/super valu and buy dearer stuff. Aldi/lidl are what the people want. Fine i might be ignorant and you mightnt like me but i didnt call you names on a public forum, if that is the attitude you have towards the consumer i think it might be you who is ignorant


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    #40
    freedominacup
    Registered Users Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    micraX wrote: »
    Well that mindset which many people have has the Irish agriculture sector the way it is. That wasn't an attack, it was expressing how I feel. I'll check the charter and edit if it is.


    How much difference does it make to the grower where the consumer buys their fruit and veg. How much more are Lidl/Aldi screwing ye compared to SV/Tesco?

    Irish supermarkets are not the primary cause of low prices in the beef business. If they increased what they are paying by 100% and it was all paseed on to the farmer and the price increase was spread out over every kg of beef sold of Irish farms to Irish processors we would get a 10% price increse. Not to be sneezed at but not a realistic prospect either. We export so much of it that what goes on here doesn't matter as much as some think.

    Dairy is the same but milk is a different product to handle and process. You can take a billion litres of milk into a plant and process it into one or two products and that fatory then has enough clout in the market to go after bigger higher value contracts. Take a billion kgs of beef into a factory(more than Irelands exported in 2013) and you will end up with much smaller quantities of a couple of dozen products to sell which gives you much less clout.


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    #41
    micraX
    Registered Users Posts: 752 ✭✭✭micraX


    freedominacup wrote: »
    How much difference does it make to the grower where the consumer buys their fruit and veg. How much more are Lidl/Aldi screwing ye compared to SV/Tesco?

    Irish supermarkets are not the primary cause of low prices in the beef business. If they increased what they are paying by 100% and it was all paseed on to the farmer and the price increase was spread out over every kg of beef sold of Irish farms to Irish processors we would get a 10% price increse. Not to be sneezed at but not a realistic prospect either. We export so much of it that what goes on here doesn't matter as much as some think.

    Dairy is the same but milk is a different product to handle and process. You can take a billion litres of milk into a plant and process it into one or two products and that fatory then has enough clout in the market to go after bigger higher value contracts. Take a billion kgs of beef into a factory(more than Irelands exported in 2013) and you will end up with much smaller quantities of a couple of dozen products to sell which gives you much less clout.

    Read my other post about how AldI is screwing up the system.


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    #42
    micraX
    Registered Users Posts: 752 ✭✭✭micraX


    biddy2013 wrote: »
    thanks .... i do the shopping for my house. Fine if i had the money i would do a full shop in tesco/super valu and buy dearer stuff. Aldi/lidl are what the people want. Fine i might be ignorant and you mightnt like me but i didnt call you names on a public forum, if that is the attitude you have towards the consumer i think it might be you who is ignorant

    Your welcome. I didn't call you names on a public forum. It's not your fault you don't know any better. Sure at Christmas when the prices went to laughable levels an Aldi spokes person came out and said the growers weren't losing out, yet the same day the growers received a phone call telling them their prices where being cut. A lad supplying cabbage was getting €3.50 a crate he was cut back to €2, and the crate itself and packaging costs €1.50. So he wasn't really making anything was he? Yet the consumer was told that there was no cut, the wool was pulled over peoples eyes yet again.


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    #43
    whupdedo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭whupdedo


    The day Europe stops giving farmers hand outs and let's them sink or swim like any other viable or non viable business is the day that food prices will give their true value, until then, as long as a farmer is getting subsidies in the door they will just sell for whatever price they wilI get, as they're sure of their next subsidy whatever the outcome


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    #44
    rancher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭rancher


    biddy2013 wrote: »
    thanks .... i do the shopping for my house. Fine if i had the money i would do a full shop in tesco/super valu and buy dearer stuff. Aldi/lidl are what the people want. Fine i might be ignorant and you mightnt like me but i didnt call you names on a public forum, if that is the attitude you have towards the consumer i think it might be you who is ignorant

    You mightn't be aware that Aldi/Lidl scuttled the prices for vegetable growers at Christmas, a time of year when growers are expecting an increase in demand and price. I know a lot of farmers (and some greengrocers) that wasted a lot of produce because of Aldi/Lidls little stunt.
    Shop in supermarkets if you like, but they don't deserve any praise here, btw super value are just as bad as any

    Micra you just got in before me
    It wasn't just those supplying Aldi/Lidl that got stung.....sure no one could get a price for vegetables within miles of any of their branches.


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    #45
    biddy2013
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭biddy2013


    rancher wrote: »
    You mightn't be aware that Aldi/Lidl scuttled the prices for vegetable growers at Christmas, a time of year when growers are expecting an increase in demand and price. I know a lot of farmers (and some greengrocers) that wasted a lot of produce because of Aldi/Lidls little stunt.
    Shop in supermarkets if you like, but they don't deserve any praise here, btw super value are just as bad as any

    Micra you just got in before me
    It wasn't just those supplying Aldi/Lidl that got stung.....sure no one could get a price for vegetables within miles of any of their branches.
    so what do you suggest? as you dont have kids who eat alot of fruit and veg do you expect me to go broke buying from the veg man that comes to my door?


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    #46
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    whupdedo wrote: »
    The day Europe stops giving farmers hand outs and let's them sink or swim like any other viable or non viable business is the day that food prices will give their true value, until then, as long as a farmer is getting subsidies in the door they will just sell for whatever price they wilI get, as they're sure of their next subsidy whatever the outcome

    Yes.
    SFP is like shots of heroin to farmers. They feel teu can't do without it. Can't wait till the next shot. Will do anything to ensure they get their share no matter who needs to be walked on.

    Cut the payments. We'll see maybe two years of free fall when only those with viable business will come out the other side.


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    #47
    micraX
    Registered Users Posts: 752 ✭✭✭micraX


    rancher wrote: »
    You mightn't be aware that Aldi/Lidl scuttled the prices for vegetable growers at Christmas, a time of year when growers are expecting an increase in demand and price. I know a lot of farmers (and some greengrocers) that wasted a lot of produce because of Aldi/Lidls little stunt.
    Shop in supermarkets if you like, but they don't deserve any praise here, btw super value are just as bad as any

    Micra you just got in before me
    It wasn't just those supplying Aldi/Lidl that got stung.....sure no one could get a price for vegetables within miles of any of their branches.
    Sure I know, iv acres of cabbage turnips and leeks still in the ground, most if which shoulda been gone by Christmas.


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    #48
    freedominacup
    Registered Users Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    micraX wrote: »
    Read my other post about how AldI is screwing up the system.

    I read it. I was just wondering how much more they are screwing ye compared to the others? The post on another thread about the dumping of UK surpluses here was very interesting.


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    #49
    Rovi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,570 ✭✭✭Rovi


    [MOD]

    Some rather distasteful comments were posted during the night, which I see have since been edited by the original posters.
    I'll have a rummage back thorough the thread and do a bit of pruning and decide if anything merits further action, but in the meantime, I'd very strongly remind everyone to be polite and courteous to each other, and that ignorance of the charter is not an acceptable excuse for breaking it!

    [/MOD]


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    #50
    biddy2013
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭biddy2013


    micraX wrote: »
    Sure I know, iv acres of cabbage turnips and leeks still in the ground, most if which shoulda been gone by Christmas.
    what to stop you selling at farm gate or going round on a veg round like local man does???????????????


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    #51
    freedominacup
    Registered Users Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    biddy2013 wrote: »
    what to stop you selling at farm gate or going round on a veg round like local man does???????????????

    I'd say for much the same reasons that you don't have a milk round biddy.;)


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    #52
    biddy2013
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭biddy2013


    freedominacup wrote: »
    I'd say for much the same reasons that you don't have a milk round biddy.;)
    local lad is doing really well, he teXts arouNd the evening before he does the run, his wife cooks brown bread, soda bread etc and he tellS you the price of the fruit /veg every week. Instead of sitting complaining on an internet forum he got up off his butt and is doing very well out of it.


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    #53
    micraX
    Registered Users Posts: 752 ✭✭✭micraX


    biddy2013 wrote: »
    what to stop you selling at farm gate or going round on a veg round like local man does???????????????

    Who said I wasn't selling at the farm gate? We have a very successful vegetable shop in the yard, but there's only so much you cab sell from there. Why dont you buy of the local lad then??????


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    #54
    biddy2013
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭biddy2013


    micraX wrote: »
    Who said I wasn't selling at the farm gate? We have a very successful vegetable shop in the yard, but there's only so much you cab sell from there. Why dont you buy of the local lad then??????
    i always buy something off him, ye still havent answered where am i supposed to do my shopping on a budget that will acceptable to you and rancher. Bearing in mind we go through about 50 bananas, 2 or 3 bags of apples, 4 punnets of grapes and alot more?


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    #55
    micraX
    Registered Users Posts: 752 ✭✭✭micraX


    biddy2013 wrote: »
    i always buy something off him, ye still havent answered where am i supposed to do my shopping on a budget that will acceptable to you and rancher. Bearing in mind we go through about 50 bananas, 2 or 3 bags of apples, 4 punnets of grapes and alot more?

    Whole sale market if your going true that much a week.


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    #56
    biddy2013
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭biddy2013


    micraX wrote: »
    Whole sale market if your going true that much a week.
    i go to aldi as i can get 90% of my shopping there, veg man calls around every week. I can not understand how you or rancher can call a normal housewife ignorant when they are trying to feed their family with healthy food as cheap as possible.


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    #57
    893bet
    Registered Users Posts: 8,836 ✭✭✭893bet


    For clarity. As I recall it, and I am open to correction, but was it not dunnes who started the veg price war at Xmas. Think they started it at 12 cent per item.


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    #58
    rancher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭rancher


    biddy2013 wrote: »
    i go to aldi as i can get 90% of my shopping there, veg man calls around every week. I can not understand how you or rancher can call a normal housewife ignorant when they are trying to feed their family with healthy food as cheap as possible.

    Hold on a minute, you're trying to rise me like you did on the other forum, I did not call anyone ignorant, I don't like people spinning my posts. I give out factual information here and when the likes of you can't argue with them, you spin something into them and argue with that.....Ill just copy and paste what I said

    ''Shop in supermarkets if you like, but they don't deserve any praise here, btw super value are just as bad as any''

    I buy the cheapest milk that I can get, 80c for 2 litres if I can get it. but then I could never condone the introduction of milk quotas....totally anti competitve


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    #59
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    micraX wrote: »
    Whole sale market if your going true that much a week.

    Seriously !!
    You expect punters to get into their cars and drive to where for a wholesale market ??

    We have a local fruit/veg shop where we buy 90% of our stuff.. We find that its worth doing good big shop there, maybe €50/70 a go on fruit and veg. He always throws in spuds and maybe strawberries..

    Where possible we don't buy fruit/veg from the major chains, its never fresh enough and they get enough other business..

    We try (but not always) buy meat from the local butcher and I've never driven onto the petrol station at the local Tesco...


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    #60
    biddy2013
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭biddy2013


    rancher wrote: »
    Hold on a minute, you're trying to rise me like you did on the other forum, I did not call anyone ignorant, I don't like people spinning my posts. I give out factual information here and when the likes of you can't argue with them, you spin something into them and argue with that.....Ill just copy and paste what I said

    ''Shop in supermarkets if you like, but they don't deserve any praise here, btw super value are just as bad as any''

    I buy the cheapest milk that I can get, 80c for 2 litres if I can get it. but then I could never condone the introduction of milk quotas....totally anti competitve
    no rising to your arguement micrax called me ignorant you agreed with his post good luck


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    #61
    micraX
    Registered Users Posts: 752 ✭✭✭micraX


    biddy2013 wrote: »
    no rising to your arguement micrax called me ignorant you agreed with his post good luck

    I didn't call you ignorant. I said ignorance, as in ignorance is the opposite of knowledge, as in your ignorant to knowing what the super markets are actually doing. And I don't blame you, I'd be the same, falling for all their advertising campaigns and lies only for I'm in the industry. That was not a dig at you, that's why I edited it.


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