Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

Morzadec · 26-03-2014 10:35AM

Not sacking Moyes now (or at least at the end of the season assuming they lose to Bayern) would be up there with Liverpool signing Andy Carroll for 35m and Erikson bringing a 16 year-old Walcott to a World Cup as one of the most inexplicable footballing decisions ever.

i.e. no matter how hard I try to see the rationale in the decision (and it is a decision - inaction is a decision) I can't see any argument, any rational justification for keeping him on at this point.

The only 'reason' I can see for keeping him on is blind faith and pride, neither of which are rational justifications.

Adamcp898 · 26-03-2014 10:42AM

Morzadec wrote: »

Not sacking Moyes now (or at least at the end of the season assuming they lose to Bayern) would be up there with Liverpool signing Andy Carroll for 35m and Erikson bringing a 16 year-old Walcott to a World Cup as one of the most inexplicable footballing decisions ever.

i.e. no matter how hard I try to see the rationale in the decision (and it is a decision - inaction is a decision) I can't see any argument, any rational justification for keeping him on at this point.

The only 'reason' I can see for keeping him on is blind faith and pride, neither of which are rational justifications.

But...but...it's the United way

mitosis · 26-03-2014 10:44AM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I think we can all agree that 13/14 season wont go down as one of our best anyway.

It's also a long way from being one of the worst.

Ernest Oreo · 26-03-2014 10:47AM

mitosis wrote: »

It's also a long way from being one of the worst.

but sure we've never finished outside the top 4 before

martingriff · 26-03-2014 10:48AM

mitosis wrote: »

It's also a long way from being one of the worst.

Ah now you know must people here only follwed Utd since the Furgussin winning era they think secong was a disaster

martingriff · 26-03-2014 10:49AM

Ernest Oreo wrote: »

but sure we've never finished outside the top 4 before

In the PL no but UTS worst season ever not by a long way

partyguinness · 26-03-2014 10:52AM

Morzadec wrote: »

Not sacking Moyes now (or at least at the end of the season assuming they lose to Bayern) would be up there with Liverpool signing Andy Carroll for 35m and Erikson bringing a 16 year-old Walcott to a World Cup as one of the most inexplicable footballing decisions ever.

i.e. no matter how hard I try to see the rationale in the decision (and it is a decision - inaction is a decision) I can't see any argument, any rational justification for keeping him on at this point.

The only 'reason' I can see for keeping him on is blind faith and pride, neither of which are rational justifications.

Well here is one reason- a team that has had the same manager for over 26 years will go through a period of transition (in other words pain) and now it is ManU's time.

Name one other team in the past 20 years that has had a successful manager for so long or a team that after a period of success has not had a transition period afterwards?

Point being- this is both unchartered territory and inevitable. Fans need to take a more medium/long term view and stop looking for the quick fix all the time.

mitosis · 26-03-2014 10:53AM

Ernest Oreo wrote: »

but sure we've never finished outside the top 4 before

Are you saying you don't recognise anything pre Sky TV as being part of your club's history?

LiamoSail · 26-03-2014 10:54AM

Morzadec wrote: »

Not sacking Moyes now (or at least at the end of the season assuming they lose to Bayern) would be up there with Liverpool signing Andy Carroll for 35m and Erikson bringing a 16 year-old Walcott to a World Cup as one of the most inexplicable footballing decisions ever.

i.e. no matter how hard I try to see the rationale in the decision (and it is a decision - inaction is a decision) I can't see any argument, any rational justification for keeping him on at this point.

The only 'reason' I can see for keeping him on is blind faith and pride, neither of which are rational justifications.

I can see two reasons for keeping Moyes on a stay of execution.

Firstly, if the board, having realised a mistake was made in appointing Moyes, are waiting for the right candidate to become available, rather than risking a second disastrous appointment by opting for the best available candidate right now, who they may not be entirely convinced by.

Secondly, in any organisation, when a Manager who was there as long as Ferguson, and who had the influence of Ferguson, departs, there will always be objection and mistrust of change. An example being Ferdnands dislike of the starting XI being announced late. Irrespective of whether it was Guadiola, Mourinho or Allardyce who got the job, that mistrust of change, among angroupmwho have been as successful as United, will linger.

Keeping Moyes on to allow him face the repercussions of such, and face the fall out from a clear out of the old guard, the likes of Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, who's sale could provoke negative reaction among those senior players remaining. Let Moyes take that hit, allowing the new manager to come in and start afresh, rather than having to face that prior to rebuilding

Cookiemunster · 26-03-2014 10:54AM

partyguinness wrote: »

Well here is one reason- a team that has had the same manager for over 26 years will go through a period of transition (in other words pain) and now it is ManU's time.

Name one other team in the past 20 years that has had a successful manager for so long or a team that after a period of success has not had a transition period afterwards?

Point being- this is unchartered territory and inevitable. Fans need to take a more medium/long term view.

Rubbish. Do you honestly believe if the likes of Mourhino or Pep had taken over that Utd would be in 7th place, 25 points worse off than last season? This is down to Moyes not being good enough.

Danye · 26-03-2014 10:58AM

partyguinness wrote: »

Well here is one reason- a team that has had the same manager for over 26 years will go through a period of transition (in other words pain) and now it is ManU's time.

Name one other team in the past 20 years that has had a successful manager for so long or a team that after a period of success has not had a transition period afterwards?

Point being- this is both unchartered territory and inevitable. Fans need to take a more medium/long term view and stop looking for the quick fix all the time.

I'm sorry but transition does not equal pain! If performances were patchy but ultimately you could see what Moyes was trying to accomplish fans would be a lot more understanding.

partyguinness · 26-03-2014 10:59AM

I not sure what age other posters are but when I started following English football in the late '80s Liverpool were all powerful in England. Nobody could touch them. AC Milan were all powerful in Europe.

Both ran out of steam.

Consider it as part of the cycle of life.:)

5live · 26-03-2014 11:00AM

Ernest Oreo wrote: »

but sure we've never finished outside the top 4 before

I like you.

You're funny.:)

Cookiemunster · 26-03-2014 11:04AM

partyguinness wrote: »

I not sure what age other posters are but when I started following English football in the late '80s Liverpool were all powerful in England. Nobody could touch them. AC Milan were all powerful in Europe.

Both ran out of steam.

Consider it as part of the cycle of life.:)

I'm old enough to remember the 80s and I know that the year after Liverpool won their last league they finished second. As did Milan the year after they last won serie A.

Lord TSC · 26-03-2014 11:04AM

partyguinness wrote: »

I not sure what age other posters are but when I started following English football in the late '80s Liverpool were all powerful in England. Nobody could touch them. AC Milan were all powerful in Europe.

Both ran out of steam.

Consider it as part of the cycle of life.:)

Fair play if those teams happily saw themselves drop off.

As Man United, we expect a high standard and won't be happy to see us decline.

As for the "Shure look,he needs time, shure Fergie got it", this is another problem; we're not allowed compare Fergie to Moyes cause Fergie was a miracle worker who could make a 7th place team win the league....but at the same time, we should compare Moyes to Fergie cause Fergie had a rough start too.

Here's the thing; time worked for Fergie. Doesn't mean it will work for Moyes. Some people are so desperate for the romanticism of a bygone era, they are allowing it to blind themselves to the fact that Moyes is never going to be as good as Fergie. No tactical awareness, no PR ability and now now ability to motivate people in games that provide their own motivation.

If Fergie had appointed the Tea Lady and said "She needs time", we wouldn't accept it. Sometimes appointments are wrong, and being stubborn won't make things better.

Ernest Oreo · 26-03-2014 11:05AM

mitosis wrote: »

Are you saying you don't recognise anything pre Sky TV as being part of your club's history?

ah i wouldnt be that familiar with the history before 1990
anyways, football has changed hugely in last 25 yrs so some of those records etc are now a little irrelevant

partyguinness · 26-03-2014 11:06AM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Rubbish. Do you honestly believe if the likes of Mourhino or Pep had taken over that Utd would be in 7th place, 25 points worse off than last season? This is down to Moyes not being good enough.

Who knows? I certainly dont and I am sure you dont. But if you want to live is a world of 'what ifs' then go for it.

Remember, Guardiola took one look at ManU at said "No thanks". I wonder why? He scratched beneath the surface and didnt like what he say.

Can you answer my previous question?

Lord TSC · 26-03-2014 11:08AM

partyguinness wrote: »

Who knows? I certainly dont and I am sure you dont. But if you want to live is a world of 'what ifs' then go for it.

Remember, Guardiola took one look at ManU at said "No thanks". I wonder why? He scratched beneath the surface and didnt like what he say.

Can you answer my previous question?

Did he now? When was this?

Ernest Oreo · 26-03-2014 11:08AM

also remember - SAF inherited a team that was basically a shambles. Moyes inherited the champions of england, albeit last year was a weak competition.
i'm sick of listening to idiots say 'shure it took fergie 3/4 years to win anything'

plus i wasnt expecting Moyes to win the league this year, but deffo shoulda been in competition for Top 4 finish

Morzadec · 26-03-2014 11:08AM

partyguinness wrote: »

Well here is one reason- a team that has had the same manager for over 26 years will go through a period of transition (in other words pain) and now it is ManU's time.

Name one other team in the past 20 years that has had a successful manager for so long or a team that after a period of success has not had a transition period afterwards?

Point being- this is both unchartered territory and inevitable. Fans need to take a more medium/long term view and stop looking for the quick fix all the time.

Has he shown anything to suggest he could work out in the medium/long term?

Is he trying to impose his own philosophy/system on the team? Is it just a question of the players adapting to these new methods?

Does anyone believe this?

As to your point of teams struggling after a lingterm manager leaves - perhaps, but not ot this extent. Fans might have been able to stomach a 10-15 point drop off. But a 20-25 point drop (which will probably be the case)?

partyguinness · 26-03-2014 11:08AM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I'm old enough to remember the 80s and I know that the year after Liverpool won their last league they finished second. As did Milan the year after they last won serie A.

That's not the point. The point was they didnt dominate to that extent again...jaysus:rolleyes:

Ernest Oreo · 26-03-2014 11:09AM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Did he now? When was this?

ya, when was this exactly?

Cookiemunster · 26-03-2014 11:10AM

partyguinness wrote: »

Who knows? I certainly dont and I am sure you dont. But if you want to live is a world of 'what ifs' then go for it.

Remember, Guardiola took one look at ManU at said "No thanks". I wonder why? He scratched beneath the surface and didnt like what he say.

Can you answer my previous question?

Still talking rubbish I see. He took the Bayern job around Christmas 2012. Fergie announced he was going last April and admitted he told nobody about it before March. So how could Pep have turned down a job that he was never offered?

martingriff · 26-03-2014 11:14AM

Ernest Oreo wrote: »

ah i wouldnt be that familiar with the history before 1990
anyways, football has changed hugely in last 25 yrs so some of those records etc are now a little irrelevant

Ah history in Man Utd "fans" eyes it great

Cookiemunster · 26-03-2014 11:15AM

martingriff wrote: »

Ah history in Man Utd "fans" eyes it great

Don't paint us all with the same brush.

martingriff · 26-03-2014 11:19AM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Don't paint us all with the same brush.

Sorry it was directed towards the poster as he can not remember anything past 90 start of Fergi golden years. I am not that much of an idiot to think every Utd fan is a "fan" With winning and fame come the bandwagon

Ernest Oreo · 26-03-2014 11:20AM

Guardiola has always said it would be a dream to manage united
it is his 2nd preference after Barca
that is why united messed up so severely here
the timing could have worked perfectly if Gill and SAF thought it through properly

i suspect SAF didnt want guardiola in right away so was happier to resign when pep was safely tucked away at Bayern. and SAF basically destroyed the mourinho application singlehandedly. ego is an important issue here.
he is the greatest manager we have ever had but his final play of the cards might have destroyed the club in the short to medium term.

v3ttel · 26-03-2014 11:20AM

partyguinness wrote: »

Well here is one reason- a team that has had the same manager for over 26 years will go through a period of transition (in other words pain) and now it is ManU's time.

Name one other team in the past 20 years that has had a successful manager for so long or a team that after a period of success has not had a transition period afterwards?

Point being- this is both unchartered territory and inevitable. Fans need to take a more medium/long term view and stop looking for the quick fix all the time.

I was beating on that same drum for quite some time, but it's no longer reasonable to keep doing so.

The facts are, the team has looked dreadful offensively and defensively. 2 goals at home to Everton, Arsenal, Spurs, City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Newcastle. Nevermind winning against the better sides in the league, we can barely even score a goal.

Look at last night:
- Cleverley being selected, when there are better options in CM.
- Mata, a world class #10, being selected at RM.
- Cleverley, a CM, being moved to RM, after 3 mins.
- Welbeck playing at LM
- Kagawa, an excellent #10, being brought on at RM.

Given the above, is it any wonder that that team, with such decisions, looked so in-cohesive?

I'm all for giving a manager time, but there has to be minimum expectations at any professional football club. It should be time for a reality check:

7th in the league, out of the FA Cup at the first hurdle in a home tie against an inferior team, knocked out of the Capital One Cup over two legs to the side that were bottom of the PL. Lost twice to City and Liverpool in the league for the first time in the PL era. No passion, fight, desire or belief in the team.

Losing isn't an issue, it's the way we're losing.

It's time for him to go.

Cantona's Collars · 26-03-2014 11:20AM

Poor kid hasn't had much joy watching United lately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdBvPihVDiM

Ernest Oreo · 26-03-2014 11:21AM

martingriff wrote: »

Sorry it was directed towards the poster as he can not remember anything past 90 start of Fergi golden years. I am not that much of an idiot to think every Utd fan is a "fan" With winning and fame come the bandwagon

hard for me to support a team before i was born though really.
anyways i jumped on the bandwagon well before we had a trophy cabinet - 1988

Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

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