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Africa and getting conquered

24

Comments

  • #32
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Arthur Beesley wrote: »
    Africa probably wouldn't have radio yet.

    Well iTunes then.


  • #33
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    That's true, it was Christopher Columbas who brought reggae to the new world. Here's a song by him called "Burning Spear".



  • #34
    Riddle101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,669 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    Zillah wrote: »
    Where do you think Jamaica's population came from?

    People from various different countries settled in it hundreds of years before. It's accepted that the majority are descended from Africa, but like the United States it would be multiracial ethnically and you would have had generations of breeding. By the 1960s the population of Jamaica would just be Jamaican.

    Also Reggae evolved from different music genres, just like Heavy Metal evolved( largely from the blues), so it still stands as to whether or not we would have Reggae today or not.

    Plus it was Christopher Columbus who founded Jamaica, so if you want to get technical then we should be thanking him.


  • #35
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    major bill wrote: »
    Nobody will ever know but sticking with after hours tradition lets all agree that the Brits were a shower of Bastards!!

    One must also mention the French, Belgians, Portugese and Germans, who did their reputations and the natives no favours at all.


  • #36
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,346 ✭✭✭No Pants


    R P McMurphy wrote: »
    He is probably referring to the mass and persistant transfer of assets from the continent
    All their internal transport infrastructure was designed and built to take resources off the continent as quickly as possible.


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  • #37
    itsirishfarmer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 52 ✭✭itsirishfarmer


    you know the irish were slaves

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076


  • #38
    Badly Drunk Boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,422 ✭✭✭Badly Drunk Boy


    Riddle101 wrote: »
    Plus it was Christopher Columbus who founded Jamaica, so if you want to get technical then we should be thanking him.

    I doubt if the indigenous folk were jammin' when Columbus got there...


  • #39
    Badly Drunk Boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,422 ✭✭✭Badly Drunk Boy


    itsirishfarmer wrote: »
    you know the irish were slaves

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076

    "To Hell or Barbados: The Ethnic Cleansing of Ireland" is another good book on the subject. There's an old church a few miles from me that has the names of the local people who were taken to the Caribbean as slaves in the 17th century. I think one whole village was taken at one stage.


  • #40
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    itsirishfarmer wrote: »
    you know the irish were slaves

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076
    Indeed, no offence to Africans but people tend to only see black slaves in America and forget about all the other slaves there have been, and is - even today slavery is still not uncommon.


  • #41
    The King of Moo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭The King of Moo


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Africa is a big place it contains many countries as well, it's not just south Africa ...:rolleyes:

    Yes, I'm well aware of that.


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  • #42
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Nodin wrote: »
    One must also mention the French, Belgians, Portugese and Germans, who did their reputations and the natives no favours at all.
    The Portuguese were there for hundreds of years before the rest and integrated better , for the standard of the time.

    You missed the Italians.
    And the Abyssinians who took over what is now Eritrea and much of what is now the south of Ethiopia during the scramble for Africa.
    And the Ottomans and the Omanis
    And the Spanish
    And the Dutch for a bit.

    And then there's the expansion of the Zulu's southwards.

    Slightly off topic but the Danes weren't exactly nice over in the Caribbean



    Africa isn't a country. Different things happened in different places to different cultures.

    Botswana doesn't appear in the news often.


  • #43
    RandomName2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    jane82 wrote: »
    Would it be a thriving place now if it never had any dealings with the whiteman

    I'm assuming that you are including... let's say the Ottoman Empire in that? Although slavery was in north Africa since the dawn of history.


  • #44
    shrewd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 295 ✭✭shrewd


    i think they would be like the East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans), who evolved and develop themselves.


  • #45
    BraziliaNZ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    Regardless of colour, humans are humans. If Ireland was a powerful country and Britain was full of little feuding clans running around the place, do you really think we would have left it alone throughout history? No, we'd have plundered that sh*t. Same goes for Africa. It's dog eat dog, or has been throughout history. At least nowadays the powerful nations try to respect human rights and borders to a certain extent (don't mention the Russians). Or you're killing Arabs with drones, but they don't count as real people.


  • #46
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    shrewd wrote: »
    i think they would be like the East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans), who evolved and develop themselves.
    Nah. For starters the East Asians had wheat and rice. Domesticated farm animals, beasts of burden, advanced metal working and a much nicer climate without Lions trying to kill you.


  • #47
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,087 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    shrewd wrote: »
    i think they would be like the East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans), who evolved and develop themselves.

    Asia had nearly as much western influence as Africa.


  • #48
    fundi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭fundi


    China only developed when it saw the success the British had made of Hong Kong and when the British lease ended it more or less copied Hong Kong, in terms of economic policy / manufacturing / export / trade, when it took over Hong Kong, about 15 years ago. Singapore is also arguably the most advanced place in the region, it had the advantage of having their infrastructure, legal syatem etc developed ( by Europeans) in the 19th century.


  • #49
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,266 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    Can't really blame the white man anymore

    Well yes and no, multinational oil and minerals companies wanting a piece of the action and those in power and their cronies creaming the profits for themselves, feathering their own nests and leaving the general population to go and sh1te. Africa is one of the richest places in the world for mineral resources but the ordinary people don't get a sniff of the profits a lot of the time.


  • #50
    GaelMise
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 542 ✭✭✭GaelMise


    jane82 wrote: »
    What would have happened if the bold countries never found africa or south africa and never took them as slaves or plundered their resources?
    Would it be a thriving place now if it never had any dealings with the whiteman or would it have died out due to a famine or something like aids?
    Ive no idea have you?

    Very difficult to say what would have happened. It would be quite hard to argue that it would have turned out as bad as it has though.


  • #51
    OneWayAround
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭OneWayAround


    White Europeans destroyed Africa. This is fact, there is no disputing this. Yet people still do, somehow the popular thing now is to downplay the effect Europeans had on the African continent. Another thing I've noticed amongst Irish people is the downplaying of the British involvement in Africa and elsewhere, including our own country. 'Lets blame the Brits' is a comment made sarcastically. As if they never actually did any harm anywhere, it's just us Paddies looking for someone to blame for our ills. What's that all about?


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  • #52
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,087 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    OneWayAround wrote: »
    White Europeans destroyed Africa. This is fact, there is no disputing this. Yet people still do, somehow the popular thing now is to downplay the effect Europeans had on the African continent. Another thing I've noticed amongst Irish people is the downplaying of the British involvement in Africa and elsewhere, including our own country. 'Lets blame the Brits' is a comment made sarcastically. As if they never actually did any harm anywhere, it's just us Paddies looking for someone to blame for our ills. What's that all about?

    Occupation had a huge impact in both cases but you cant keep blaming other countries for mistakes being made at present.

    Africa has huge corruption issues which lead to multinationals exploiting resources.


  • #53
    stefan idiot jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,518 ✭✭✭stefan idiot jones


    Steppenwolfe wrote: »
    There would have been a different Oscar winner this year.

    There's a certain white Oscar in South Africa who's in a spot of bother too.


  • #54
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    OneWayAround wrote: »
    White Europeans destroyed Africa.

    Zimbabwe was the breadbasket of Africa now look at it


  • #55
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    OneWayAround wrote: »
    What's that all about?

    Answer here:



  • #56
    fundi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭fundi


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    Zimbabwe was the breadbasket of Africa now look at it

    Correct. There is no disputing everyone there, including the blacks, were better off when it had imput from Europeans.

    Its the Chinese who have moved in there now and who are exploiting the place more than Europeans ever did.


  • #57
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Yeah all those different tribes really get on don't they.... I'm sure back in the past they were all holding hands/hugging each other as well.

    Some did, some didn't I'm sure.

    But there are established cases where European powers fermented tribal tensions to facilitate a divide and conquer/rule approach to their colonies.

    The most famous example is the Belgiand strategy of setting the previously co-existing Hutu and Tutsi groups against each other (establishing the Tutsis as the elite minority during colonial times, then shifting support to the Hutu majority at independence) - which manifested itself in the most brutal genocide in history in the 90s.

    I would suggest educating yourself before naming such flippant and uninformed comments.


  • #58
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    Occupation had a huge impact in both cases but you cant keep blaming other countries for mistakes being made at present.

    Africa has huge corruption issues which lead to multinationals exploiting resources.

    A lot of Africa problems are now "self made". However, if you look at the approach of the former colonial powers since independence, they were setting them up to fail.

    The former colonial powers ensured that only those favourable to the western interests were allowed in power, and frequently inter meddled as needed to put their puppet in the presidency.

    The West allowed the corrupt and ruthless to rule as long as they were useful, and pumped guns into the countries when they weren't. This is on top of the many Cold War proxy wars fought across Africa.

    Even when African nations managed to effect democratic change, the government was liable to be deposed unceremoniously if they didn't tow the western line. E.g. Belgian and possible US participation in Patrice Lumumba's execution.

    So it's easy to see why corrupt dictators became the norm, rather than peaceful democracy.

    Even up to the 90s and later, Western forces intervened to protect their interests, regardless of the cost to law, order and human lives.

    During the Rwandan genocide, there is some evidence that French troops were aware of the genocidal plans of the regime, and certainly did much to support and protect them despite the atrocities perpetrated by them.

    So to assume that the colonial influence has longer since ceased to exist is misinformed.


  • #59
    shrewd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 295 ✭✭shrewd


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Nah. For starters the East Asians had wheat and rice. Domesticated farm animals, beasts of burden, advanced metal working and a much nicer climate without Lions trying to kill you.

    There are wheats, rice and more food in Africa.
    There are domesticated farm animals as well, Hens, goat, cows, turkey etc. I've been to the North, West and South of africa. things are not as they are described in the media

    much nicer climate? C'mon, the russians and Scandinavians still kick ass in the horrible climate that they are in.

    Lions??, pshh, Lions are only in some parts of Africa. Even with Lions, i dont see this as a hindrance as every continent has a wild beast.


  • #60
    fundi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭fundi


    shrewd wrote: »
    Even with Lions, i dont see this as a hindrance as every continent has a wild beast.
    We've had a few here, Aherne and Cowen spring to mind;)


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  • #61
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    shrewd wrote: »
    There are wheats, rice and more food in Africa.
    There are domesticated farm animals as well, Hens, goat, cows, turkey etc. I've been to the North, West and South of africa. things are not as they are described in the media

    much nicer climate? C'mon, the russians and Scandinavians still kick ass in the horrible climate that they are in.

    Lions??, pshh, Lions are only in some parts of Africa. Even with Lions, i dont see this as a hindrance as every continent has a wild beast.

    I think the tropical climate and desert across much of African was also a big barrier. There's a guy called Jared Diamond who had a book about all this. the climates in Europe and Asia were more favourable for the development of agricultural societies and the exchange of ideas - easier to traverse for travellers, milder and less extreme, less susceptible to disease and illness.


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