Irish driving test unfair?

Onomeanacon · 29-09-2012 06:42PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

10 to 2 is a completely illogical way to hold the steering wheel. For one thing, holding your arms at chest height for long periods of time is uncomfortable and restricts movement when turning, making it more dangerous if anything. Also, if the airbag goes off you'll probably break an arm. On the straight as long as you have a firm grip on either side equally spaced apart it shouldn't matter where on the clock you hold the wheel. For comfort and safety 20 to 4 is about right for me.

Another thing that bothers me is when people pick you up on hovering your foot above the clutch. It's there if I need to stop suddenly. Also, I like to sit nearer to the wheel than most people would advise because I have a sore tendon in my left ankle.

I think most driving conventions like that are old wives tales and if anything individuality can improve a person as a driver.

Safety is the first thing and myths like this are not relevant. I read an article before that said that people in the UK have a higher risk of being in an accident in the year after their test. It is a flawed system.

T-K-O · 29-09-2012 06:46PM

Is this for serious. The test is fair. I do not drive the way I drove during my test. I dont think anyone does..

However those bad habits kill people. We have enough idiots on the road

rockclover1 · 29-09-2012 06:51PM

There were people who got their licenses automatically without any formal driving test in the 70's/80's,i suppose in contrast to that it could be seen as unfair.

And the driving test is a lot harder now ,than it was in the past,new drivers seem to be penalised for this.

Even the L plate learners cannot drive their car on their own without another driver in the car with them,how can they afford to learn as it is the driving test classes are very expensive,you really need to put money aside for them,and live on nothing,and esp for those on the dole,its even tougher.

I predict there wont be as many qualified drivers in the future generations a) through lack of funds for 1. car 2. lessons 3. driving test fee,and b) tougher driving test

Faith+1 · 29-09-2012 08:39PM

Way to revive an old thread guys! ^^^

kulano · 20-02-2014 01:52AM

I totally agree with you.No explanation with your mistakes,no cameras in vehicle,trust is not enough.I went three times and every time no serious mistakes only small ones and their cumulation.Next time I will apply for repeat.The tester was even unhappy when I said I will apply for repeating.He wasnt nice actually,I found them very unpleasant.
The other this is lessons.Suggesting that you need a car to learn and pass exam is very unfair.I got about 200 lessons,its a lot. Didnt buy yet my vehicle,but honestly I could for that money,I did not want to be fined for driving alone,was not feel safe also.One of driving instructor told me before exam that I will not pass today,so I should go directly to court after that,didnt do that,but I should.Also said that somewhere was continous line but he just joked.That what these people are doing are just enormous.Stopping for coffee,pee,screaming,shouting,playing so important,no.I actually didnt get my licence yet,still have no car,still paying,but I decided that if the situation will stay like that,I will ask someone serious for support.People,test results should be checked,tester is not the king,he should explain fully what is wrong,how instructor can see what did you do wrong?The other thing receipt for lessons,dont let instructors to earn hundreds on you,they sometimes act like guru just attaching you and saying you can or not drive.Be smart and have opened eyes,you have rights to apply for repeating if you feel you were treated unfairly.I was,definitely,I was

jamo2oo9 · 28-02-2014 05:44PM

kulano wrote: »

I totally agree with you.No explanation with your mistakes,no cameras in vehicle,trust is not enough.I went three times and every time no serious mistakes only small ones and their cumulation.Next time I will apply for repeat.The tester was even unhappy when I said I will apply for repeating.He wasnt nice actually,I found them very unpleasant.
The other this is lessons.Suggesting that you need a car to learn and pass exam is very unfair.I got about 200 lessons,its a lot. Didnt buy yet my vehicle,but honestly I could for that money,I did not want to be fined for driving alone,was not feel safe also.One of driving instructor told me before exam that I will not pass today,so I should go directly to court after that,didnt do that,but I should.Also said that somewhere was continous line but he just joked.That what these people are doing are just enormous.Stopping for coffee,pee,screaming,shouting,playing so important,no.I actually didnt get my licence yet,still have no car,still paying,but I decided that if the situation will stay like that,I will ask someone serious for support.People,test results should be checked,tester is not the king,he should explain fully what is wrong,how instructor can see what did you do wrong?The other thing receipt for lessons,dont let instructors to earn hundreds on you,they sometimes act like guru just attaching you and saying you can or not drive.Be smart and have opened eyes,you have rights to apply for repeating if you feel you were treated unfairly.I was,definitely,I was

Your instructor earned €6,000 of you... (assuming the cost of each lesson is €30)

kulano · 01-03-2014 07:35PM

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

Your instructor earned €6,000 of you... (assuming the cost of each lesson is €30)

You are right then,even more and hinestly said I need to stop that,get a car or find differet way.I hoped there will be point that they will say,ok you can go,you are ready but not.I think I am not the only person on this position.I talked with one guy who said sometimes instructors dont learn you enough just you to fail exam,sorry but I have that feeling.None of my three test didnt have serious mistakes,only cumulation of small,no explanation at all.Honestly if people think the test is right and justice and all of people who got licence can drive and the other not,then look at the streets,that is your justice on test.

jamo2oo9 · 01-03-2014 07:43PM

kulano wrote: »

You are right then,even more and hinestly said I need to stop that,get a car or find differet way.I hoped there will be point that they will say,ok you can go,you are ready but not.I think I am not the only person on this position.I talked with one guy who said sometimes instructors dont learn you enough just you to fail exam,sorry but I have that feeling.None of my three test didnt have serious mistakes,only cumulation of small,no explanation at all.Honestly if people think the test is right and justice and all of people who got licence can drive and the other not,then look at the streets,that is your justice on test.

Have you been with the same instructor for the three tests? If so, maybe you should consider switching to a different one as your current instructor could be a bad teacher to you.

kulano · 02-03-2014 01:00AM

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

Have you been with the same instructor for the three tests? If so, maybe you should consider switching to a different one as your current instructor could be a bad teacher to you.

No that is my fourth instructor so maybe I am wrong or I really need a car or there is something wrong.Like I know time will show everything.

jamo2oo9 · 02-03-2014 03:04AM

kulano wrote: »

No that is my fourth instructor so maybe I am wrong or I really need a car or there is something wrong.Like I know time will show everything.

Just out of interest, how old are you and do you live with anyone who owns a car and has a full driver's license? If so, you could get insurance under their name and practise your driver. Don't be relying on instructors to gain experience in driving. It's too expensive and time-consuming too. You'd be better off going to a quiet place and practise your weak areas like turnabout, reverse around the corner, parking etc.

miss no stars · 02-03-2014 11:56AM

And this is why there should be video footage of the test. Tester marks a fault, footage of last 30 seconds from 2 cameras (1 of driver, 1 outside view) is grabbed and associated with the fault automatically. Transparency for all and probably fewer people repeating the test multiple times.

kulano · 02-03-2014 05:22PM

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

Just out of interest, how old are you and do you live with anyone who owns a car and has a full driver's license? If so, you could get insurance under their name and practise your driver. Don't be relying on instructors to gain experience in driving. It's too expensive and time-consuming too. You'd be better off going to a quiet place and practise your weak areas like turnabout, reverse around the corner, parking etc.

My age is not so important I guess.The important thing is how long I do that test,and believe me or not,instructors always put fence upper and upper,we all know why.If I cannot rely on instructor then why they exist?I can buy a car and I dont need them,see all videos,tutorials,books.Why there is so many schools if they failed so much?Why all of them advertise that they have 90 percent of passing if in Raheny is 44 percent?Dont be stupid ,it is easy to open eyes.I am not saying I am perfect in driving but who is?Do you want me to believe that people who are passing this test they are?I have seen how they drive,holy **** man.If testers and instructors are trying to tell you that after passing test you are ready to go to motorway...I know people who passed that test and they affraid still to drive even on normal road,how is that possible?Testers are so proffesionals,are they?Maybe I should scan my test sheets and put them here to have a look how my results went down,only because of irritation and stress.Now where is justice?Where is?I live with someone who has a car but we dont know each other too much,I wont ask anybody else,the only way out is to get a car,drive and if the garda catch me and tell you cannot drive without full drivence,send to driving school fine and let them to pay if they are so good in calling people to get them your won car.I heard the story that somebody finally hit the tester and believe me I am not surprised,cameras it is good solution also any fake moves and words from them and instructors should be reported immediately to cut spending money gforever and ever.Any refunds are not predicted.

jamo2oo9 · 02-03-2014 07:39PM

kulano wrote: »

My age is not so important I guess.The important thing is how long I do that test,and believe me or not,instructors always put fence upper and upper,we all know why.If I cannot rely on instructor then why they exist?I can buy a car and I dont need them,see all videos,tutorials,books.Why there is so many schools if they failed so much?Why all of them advertise that they have 90 percent of passing if in Raheny is 44 percent?Dont be stupid ,it is easy to open eyes.I am not saying I am perfect in driving but who is?Do you want me to believe that people who are passing this test they are?I have seen how they drive,holy **** man.If testers and instructors are trying to tell you that after passing test you are ready to go to motorway...I know people who passed that test and they affraid still to drive even on normal road,how is that possible?Testers are so proffesionals,are they?Maybe I should scan my test sheets and put them here to have a look how my results went down,only because of irritation and stress.Now where is justice?Where is?I live with someone who has a car but we dont know each other too much,I wont ask anybody else,the only way out is to get a car,drive and if the garda catch me and tell you cannot drive without full drivence,send to driving school fine and let them to pay if they are so good in calling people to get them your won car.I heard the story that somebody finally hit the tester and believe me I am not surprised,cameras it is good solution also any fake moves and words from them and instructors should be reported immediately to cut spending money gforever and ever.Any refunds are not predicted.

Maybe you could go to a different test centre? Raheny seems quite poor in test passes compared to other. I know Athlone is 70 something percent pass rate. The testers in Raheny could be the problem.

greyc · 02-03-2014 09:31PM

miss no stars wrote: »

And this is why there should be video footage of the test. Tester marks a fault, footage of last 30 seconds from 2 cameras (1 of driver, 1 outside view) is grabbed and associated with the fault automatically. Transparency for all and probably fewer people repeating the test multiple times.

I think they'd need a lot more than 2 cameras, don't see how you could check, mirrors, observation, coasting, proper gear changes, positioning, clearance, use of signals, reaction to hazards,reversing etc with just 2 cameras.

i wonder why though are the RSA dragging their heels on allowing driving instructors to accompany their pupils on driving tests as well as being present when the result is given at the end. This was apparently agreed over a year ago but still hasn't been implemented, and would bring a lot of transparency to the test. It's been in use in the UK and the North for a number of years and is supposed to work very well.

kulano · 03-03-2014 12:23AM

greyc wrote: »

I think they'd need a lot more than 2 cameras, don't see how you could check, mirrors, observation, coasting, proper gear changes, positioning, clearance, use of signals, reaction to hazards,reversing etc with just 2 cameras.

i wonder why though are the RSA dragging their heels on allowing driving instructors to accompany their pupils on driving tests as well as being present when the result is given at the end. This was apparently agreed over a year ago but still hasn't been implemented, and would bring a lot of transparency to the test. It's been in use in the UK and the North for a number of years and is supposed to work very well.

It is pretty strange for me that after got your results,there is no explanation of your mistakes,all I heard was your driving intructor will explain you what was wrong on your test.How my driving instructor can explain that when he was not there?When I said "I will appeal to court about my driving exam" all I heard:"Do you want appeal to court?""said quite strange as I wouldnt be able or I couldnt do that.

greyc · 03-03-2014 12:51AM

kulano wrote: »

It is pretty strange for me that after got your results,there is no explanation of your mistakes,all I heard was your driving intructor will explain you what was wrong on your test.How my driving instructor can explain that when he was not there?When I said "I will appeal to court about my driving exam" all I heard:"Do you want appeal to court?""said quite strange as I wouldnt be able or I couldnt do that.

That's why having your driving instructor there would be a big help at least they could explain where you went wrong.
I actually don't think the Irish driving test is unfair, it's probably a lot easier than many other European countries, and I'd say most people who fail deserve to fail.

I don't think testers have any agenda and they don't have quotas, however what is unfair, is the lack of feedback given at the end of the test. I think this maybe leaves people with the impression that the tester can't explain why he marked you for certain faults and he only marked you for the sake of it.

My instructor told me that the reason they won't give specific feedback is in case they end up getting into an argument over whether or not a fault occurred, however it's practically impossible for your instructor to know how a fault occurred without being there, especially for something like Reaction to Hazards.

My ADI also told me that a friend of his was an instructor in the UK, he sat in on most tests with his pupils and in 3 years he couldn't rememember any occasion where a pupil failed who he thought should've passed.

As Miss No Stars says it's all about transparency.

kulano · 03-03-2014 07:13PM

greyc wrote: »

That's why having your driving instructor there would be a big help at least they could explain where you went wrong.
I actually don't think the Irish driving test is unfair, it's probably a lot easier than many other European countries, and I'd say most people who fail deserve to fail.

I don't think testers have any agenda and they don't have quotas, however what is unfair, is the lack of feedback given at the end of the test. I think this maybe leaves people with the impression that the tester can't explain why he marked you for certain faults and he only marked you for the sake of it.

My instructor told me that the reason they won't give specific feedback is in case they end up getting into an argument over whether or not a fault occurred, however it's practically impossible for your instructor to know how a fault occurred without being there, especially for something like Reaction to Hazards.

My ADI also told me that a friend of his was an instructor in the UK, he sat in on most tests with his pupils and in 3 years he couldn't rememember any occasion where a pupil failed who he thought should've passed.

As Miss No Stars says it's all about transparency.

Well if there is no possibilities to re-check anything and get any info then what?Lottery?Ok that might be like this that I am not still on what they want,but what they want?Agressive,quick driving or safe,slow driving?I have a friend who told me that instructor before exam said:"You will fail today...",that was his first exam and he almost passed,almost because he was so demotivated what instructor told him.The same instructor said to him,you drove on continous line and he said to him,lets go back there because there was no continous line.And there was none.So he still didnt pass the test because he is already in nerves and tension.How to explain that?Honestly...Lets say like that,I would be honestly more calmful on driving test if that would be another person to check that and at least one camera.One of my driving instructor told me that instructors sometimes leave person on a stage where they are not sure if they are ok in driving or not,they learn them not fully,that what he said,because they expect more money spent on lessons.I know there is a lot of opinions but...

miss no stars · 03-03-2014 10:21PM

kulano wrote: »

Well if there is no possibilities to re-check anything and get any info then what?Lottery?Ok that might be like this that I am not still on what they want,but what they want?Agressive,quick driving or safe,slow driving?I have a friend who told me that instructor before exam said:"You will fail today...",that was his first exam and he almost passed,almost because he was so demotivated what instructor told him.The same instructor said to him,you drove on continous line and he said to him,lets go back there because there was no continous line.And there was none.So he still didnt pass the test because he is already in nerves and tension.How to explain that?Honestly...Lets say like that,I would be honestly more calmful on driving test if that would be another person to check that and at least one camera.One of my driving instructor told me that instructors sometimes leave person on a stage where they are not sure if they are ok in driving or not,they learn them not fully,that what he said,because they expect more money spent on lessons.I know there is a lot of opinions but...

Your posting smacks of "poor me" and just an inability to learn to drive as quickly as others. Yeah, the test has problems and lack of transparency is one of them. But every fully licensed driver out there has passed it so it can't be as bad as you say. In fact, I know it's not.

Go to an instructor you've never had - get one recommended to you (you could post here what area you're looking for one) and tell them that you've failed the test so many times and you'd like them to assess your driving so you can work out where you're going wrong. Because I'm telling you, if you've spent that much time and money learning to drive and keep failing - you're going wrong somewhere. The problem is with you, not the test and not instructors. Get rid of the conspiracy theories and listen carefully to what the instructor tells you. On a related note, your English isn't great. Are you receiving instruction through your native language? If not (if it's not available, not something I've ever looked into) make sure to let the instructor know if you're having trouble understanding something they're saying. Maybe sketching or repeating things in another way would be useful?

Either way, there's a problem and it's more than likely predominantly on your end.

kulano · 03-03-2014 11:29PM

miss no stars wrote: »

Your posting smacks of "poor me" and just an inability to learn to drive as quickly as others. Yeah, the test has problems and lack of transparency is one of them. But every fully licensed driver out there has passed it so it can't be as bad as you say. In fact, I know it's not.

Go to an instructor you've never had - get one recommended to you (you could post here what area you're looking for one) and tell them that you've failed the test so many times and you'd like them to assess your driving so you can work out where you're going wrong. Because I'm telling you, if you've spent that much time and money learning to drive and keep failing - you're going wrong somewhere. The problem is with you, not the test and not instructors. Get rid of the conspiracy theories and listen carefully to what the instructor tells you. On a related note, your English isn't great. Are you receiving instruction through your native language? If not (if it's not available, not something I've ever looked into) make sure to let the instructor know if you're having trouble understanding something they're saying. Maybe sketching or repeating things in another way would be useful?

Either way, there's a problem and it's more than likely predominantly on your end.

Oh ok,then it is something wrong with me and lets finish like that.I understand what you wrote so my English is not so bad,didnt use any dictionary.Yes,its me and driving test is right.Sorry to bother

Irish driving test unfair?

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