€130,000- What can I build?

hexosan · 22-02-2014 08:19AM

mandy gall wrote: »

We are starting a self build of a bungalow 2800 sq ft with a budget of 150,000 and will have change out of that! Our home will be of high spec and highly efficient. So have hope you just need to research and use your head with every decision. These new regs will change everything though!

Your living in dreamland with statements like this,
Is €150,000 your budget for everything, planning, architect, engineer, solicitor, stamp duty, valuations for mortgage, council contributions, site insurance, percolation , groundwork,
All of that is before there's even a block laid & remember a bungalow is more expensive per sq ft to build as it requires larger foundations (so more Filling, steel, concrete, insulation, labour) it also requires a larger roof (more timber, insulation, slates, labour)

I'm in the middle of building at the moment and I "shop around" for ever single element and there's no way you can make the savings people claim on this site, labour has come down considerably and money can be saved here but cheapest is not always best. The trades I've used so far I've had to wait for because their flat out working so your not going to beat a guy like that down on price. A lad that can quote low and start next week is someone you should watch out for. I'm on site every single day that there's work been done and it eats up every spare minute I have also include the hours & hours that disappear researching & researching every single thing online. Prepare to have no life whatsoever for the duration of the build.

materials have increased in price and are still going up.
Once you include higher levels of insulation (legal requirement of the building regs) (plus if you cut corners here your only fooling yourself) triple glazed windows, doors there's next to nothing left out of that €150k budget so don't be making statements backed up by nothing other than a finger in the air sure we can build for that and still have change at the end.
Can you provide a breakdown of your estimated costs because all the people that come on here claims build costs like your ALWAYS fail to do so.
The only part of your statement that's true is ALL YOU'LL HAVE AT THE END IS CHANGE IN YOUR POCKET to go along with an empty bank account and a nowhere near fully finished house.

kkelliher · 22-02-2014 06:19PM

have2flushtwice wrote: »

Well done mandy gall, almost every post on the thread so far has been shooting down the op, that the op hasnt got a hope of doing it. Good to see positivity, and a can do mentality.

Why be positive for the sake of it? The facts dont lie and you can have all the can do mentality you want but that does not pay for materials, labour, plant, equipment, etc etc

kkelliher · 22-02-2014 06:37PM

have2flushtwice wrote: »

Kk, how do u put a value on your time doing research into the build, whether u go contract or self build? If u go direct and trust an engineer to manage your next 30 years of investment, and expect not to be involved, eg hes being paid so it will be done right attitude, is that value?

I know a 2850 sq ft house built for 273k, knock off d big garage and ur 150k is bang on the money, they shopped around, bought some material well before time to use it, and were smart about making decisions.

My god i hope you put alot more effort into your budget calculation than the above.

I also hope all your documents are perfect and all fully detailed so you dont have any changes onsite and additional costs like the majority of projects as most have a 20-30% overspend.

In respect to your engineer what you expect, what you get and what you pay for are three different things and the level of supervision and involvement comes down to your agreement.

jigsaw50 · 23-02-2014 12:10AM

For a house in south Leinster circa 3000 sq foot.

Build costs all in €77.9
With council fees €79.7
With professional fees € 82.28

Should help with your budget.
Shop around, and use the magic 3 quotations for all pricing, also invest in a very detailed specification, pre tender, and a builder you like, you will be talking with him/her every other day for the bones of 8 months.

straight · 23-02-2014 08:52AM

You can get a builders finish for under 60 euro per square foot...

DOCARCH · 23-02-2014 09:21AM

straight wrote: »

You can get a builders finish for under 60 euro per square foot...

When was that?

With new(ish) building regulations (i.e. Part L), new building control regulations and new health and safety regulations, I think getting a build at E60/sq.ft. may be pie in the sky (these days)!

sydthebeat · 23-02-2014 09:59AM

straight wrote: »

You can get a builders finish for under 60 euro per square foot...

Maybe in the nineties with a bog standard finish.

I wish people would include EVERYTHING when giving examples like this.

Council development charges, connection fees, professional fees, insurances etc all could constitute as much as 10-15% of the ops budget. ...

kkelliher · 23-02-2014 10:42AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Maybe in the nineties with a bog standard finish.

I wish people would include EVERYTHING when giving examples like this.

Council development charges, connection fees, professional fees, insurances etc all could constitute as much as 10-15% of the ops budget. ...

And items like kitchens, wardrobes, tiles, decoration generally do not normally come included in "builders finish". External works requirements including septic tank, entrance, boundary etc can vary widely from site to site and also usually no account taken of cost of windows over and above upvc and this is why cost per ft2 is a complete waste of time.

vinnie13 · 23-02-2014 10:53AM

Awful lot or negative responses or jealousy to op's question.
Don't mind it op you can build a nice house for the cash you have.
After all tradesmen are 10a penny these days
Septic tanks are a thing if the past
Go to bord Na Mona their engineer is 500 to inspect your plot and suggest a treatment plant
Foundations get a digger in for a day 500
Concert is about 100 m2 plus 1500 steel
Now it's blocks or timber frame shop around
Then roof and Windows
Next step there is a lot happening plumbers chippys sparks etc again shop around
After they finish it's a paint and furnish
Can't stress shopping around enough prices vary dramatically but labour is cheap.
With materials shop around but go to these personaly and look for a deal if you buy from them most will give trade discount because of how much your spending avoid chain diy stores go to a independent supplier

kkelliher · 23-02-2014 10:56AM

I have just received back 5 tenders for a new build in dublin region for a house of 2700 ft2 and the build cost excluding any site purchase costs, excluding professional fees, excluding contributions and any connection fees but including a fully finished house with all boundary walls, pavings, entrance, drainage works and topsoil (excludes planting) has come back with a lowest tender of over €175/ft2. This is a one off with an existing house to be demolished. It meets all current regs and includes costs of a garage.

There is no chance that it can be "built" to a builders finish or any other made up form of finish for anything close to the costs that are being quoted on this forum and anyone setting out on the process should not be hoodwinked into fairyland to believe it can. Ireland needs to wake up and stop the constant belief that anyone can build and that anyone should be entitled to build their own home with their own hands. Its not allowed in any other country unless under direct building control supervision and the likes of priory hall etc should always be in mind. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys and a figure that sounds too good to be true generally is

kkelliher · 23-02-2014 11:04AM

vinnie13 wrote: »

Awful lot or negative responses or jealousy to op's question

Jealousy ? Of a person who has asked for advise and has received same which clearly indicates that they do not have a large enough budget to build a property as big as they clearly wanted.

if you dont like the answers dont ask the questions. You can always pay for professional advise in a private setting.

kkelliher · 23-02-2014 11:09AM

vinnie13 wrote: »

Awful lot or negative responses or jealousy to op's question.
Don't mind it op you can build a nice house for the cash you have.
After all tradesmen are 10a penny these days
Septic tanks are a thing if the past
Go to bord Na Mona their engineer is 500 to inspect your plot and suggest a treatment plant
Foundations get a digger in for a day 500
Concert is about 100 m2 plus 1500 steel
Now it's blocks or timber frame shop around
Then roof and Windows
Next step there is a lot happening plumbers chippys sparks etc again shop around
After they finish it's a paint and furnish
Can't stress shopping around enough prices vary dramatically but labour is cheap.
With materials shop around but go to these personaly and look for a deal if you buy from them most will give trade discount because of how much your spending avoid chain diy stores go to a independent supplier

For what size house? 1500 for steel irrespective of size?

Materials have never being as expensive as they currently are. Timber is now more expensive for the manufacturers to buy from a forest than we used to pay the merchant. Concrete, quinnlites have both gone up 6-8% this year and labour is already in short supply in alot of trades. Siptu are already gearing up for pay rises. Building is getting more expensive day by day and with new regs on a yearly basis that will not change

vinnie13 · 23-02-2014 11:28AM

Pay no attention op fools and their money are easy parted,
Lads we were taking about a average 3bed (like the one in kink I posted earlier had someone had taken a min to read it with my reference to the steel)
I also said in a earlier post it all takes into account the finish required marble counters etc.

I really wish people would read whole threads instead of just the last few comments.

FYI the 3bed Simi in the average housing estate built in the boom that sold for 350k+ were built including the tarmac street lighting etc for 60k
Not including site purchase

Op I googled log cabins and seen a few really nice ones erected within your budget obviously a transport cost but still worth looking at if it's your thing

vinnie13 · 23-02-2014 11:30AM

kkelliher wrote: »

For what size house? 1500 for steel irrespective of size?

Materials have never being as expensive as they currently are. Timber is now more expensive for the manufacturers to buy from a forest than we used to pay the merchant. Concrete, quinnlites have both gone up 6-8% this year and labour is already in short supply in alot of trades. Siptu are already gearing up for pay rises. Building is getting more expensive day by day and with new regs on a yearly basis that will not change

Iv to timber yards beside me that haven't changed price in years go's up a couple of cents then down wouldnt have a huge effect on a house around me

kkelliher · 23-02-2014 11:50AM

vinnie13 wrote: »

FYI the 3bed Simi in the average housing estate built in the boom that sold for 350k+ were built including the tarmac street lighting etc for 60k
Not including site purchase

You can compare a house in an estate where multipal units are built at once with a one off. It also depended on location, spec of finish and house style. Some estates have mains connection others their own system and costs vary wildly as a result.

Having worked on the construction of over 300 units in the years 2003-2007 we never built any unit for less than €160/ft (plus vat) when all costs were factored in excluding site but we did build decent spec houses with granite countertops, cills, natueral slate etc and all paved areas with cast iron light posts etc.

No two houses are the same and no two sites are the same and i have never seen (in over 16 years of actual knowledge of what the costs of ALL parts are) two houses with the same final costs

BryanF · 23-02-2014 12:29PM

vinnie13 wrote: »

Pay no attention op fools and their money are easy parted,
Lads we were taking about a average 3bed (like the one in kink I posted earlier had someone had taken a min to read it with my reference to the steel)
I also said in a earlier post it all takes into account the finish required marble counters etc.

I really wish people would read whole threads instead of just the last few comments.

FYI the 3bed Simi in the average housing estate built in the boom that sold for 350k+ were built including the tarmac street lighting etc for 60k
Not including site purchase

Op I googled log cabins and seen a few really nice ones erected within your budget obviously a transport cost but still worth looking at if it's your thing

This sums up this debate nicely. The post starts ( and I paraphrase)'don't listen to QS & others who are recommending the OP needs realistic expectations'
'you can build what you want for your budget'
the second paragraph, continues with 'this is what I claim I finished a house for'.(new regs in their current form, make this a problem for the OP as the self build option now means having a main contractor)
Then final post suggests ' you can do this! Google suggests it can be done'

vinnie13 · 23-02-2014 02:03PM

OP check this site out it will have mote skilled help and better informed answers cutting out all the builder bull

http://selfbuildinireland.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=2342ab3b0b2112109dfcdc8f19ae00d9&

mandy gall · 23-02-2014 02:08PM

Kkeliher To what countries are you referring to that you cant self build??? The uk have enshrined self builds and of course when an inspector comes and sees something wrong it must be rectified. Rightly so. Its funny you should mention monkeys as im beginning to think it was monkeys who drew up these new regs. We WILL build a top spec house with 150,000 and will show you how pics and all! You got a quote for 175 euro sqft in dublin but dont ye have the Luas there? The prices we are talking are for rural ireland.

893bet · 23-02-2014 02:16PM

mandy gall wrote: »

Kkeliher To what countries are you referring to that you cant self build??? The uk have enshrined self builds and of course when an inspector comes and sees something wrong it must be rectified. Rightly so. Its funny you should mention monkeys as im beginning to think it was monkeys who drew up these new regs. We WILL build a top spec house with 150,000 and will show you how pics and all! You got a quote for 175 euro sqft in dublin but dont ye have the Luas there? The prices we are talking are for rural ireland.

Have you started your build yet?

mandy gall · 23-02-2014 02:19PM

Waiting to see what happens with these regs

DOCARCH · 23-02-2014 02:33PM

mandy gall wrote: »

Its funny you should mention monkeys as im beginning to think it was monkeys who drew up these new regs.

Can't disagree with you on that point!

I honestly believe new regs should only apply to those building two, or more, houses (apartments, etc.).

As pointed out elsewhere, the self builder has a vested interest in getting the build right in the first place...contractor or direct labour route.

893bet · 23-02-2014 02:34PM

mandy gall wrote: »

Waiting to see what happens with these regs

so thats a no so.

yet you say stuff like this when you clearly have zero experience bar some online research. You havent turned a sod for god sake!

mandy gall wrote: »

We WILL build a top spec house with 150,000 and will show you how pics and all!

I am part way through a self build. Just to put in context it is a 2000Sq two storey. Your planned build is a 2800 bungalow so will have a foot print of twice the size of mine. My foundation alone cost 18000. Yours will cost far more assuming you can go with a simple strip and not a raft. Do you even know that yet?

While the 175 quid a sqaure foot is high the poster is referring to a turnkey finish. Full furnished, driveway, lawns, paving etc. Most people talking about 60-70 quid a foot are talking about the most basic builders finish with no interior decoration and the outside site looking like a building site.

Good look with your build. I hope you can achieve what you think you can. You better have the 150 in cash as no bank will lend it to you as they will know it wont be enough to complete.

hexosan · 23-02-2014 02:53PM

mandy gall wrote: »

Waiting to see what happens with these regs

If you haven't started by 1st march you have no hope whatsoever of completing this so called €150k home

mandy gall · 23-02-2014 03:23PM

Simple strip foundations and have already priced at 10k incl garage foundation . Also very lucky to have a family of tradesmen. Im also talking a finished house not a fully furnished house. We have no intention of it looking like a building site outside. My husband has just completed a handmade sprayed finished kitchen in our current home with a beautiful polished concrete countertop for under 1500 euro. Like i said previously we have every hope and WILL build our home for 150k with change!

vinnie13 · 23-02-2014 03:27PM

mandy gall wrote: »

Kkeliher To what countries are you referring to that you cant self build??? The uk have enshrined self builds and of course when an inspector comes and sees something wrong it must be rectified. Rightly so. Its funny you should mention monkeys as im beginning to think it was monkeys who drew up these new regs. We WILL build a top spec house with 150,000 and will show you how pics and all! You got a quote for 175 euro sqft in dublin but dont ye have the Luas there? The prices we are talking are for rural ireland.

The UK have some lovely self builds.
At last someone who has a understanding of how it all works.
Hope your build go's well would love to see the pics

893bet · 23-02-2014 03:28PM

mandy gall wrote: »

Simple strip foundations and have already priced at 10k incl garage foundation . Also very lucky to have a family of tradesmen. Im also talking a finished house not a fully furnished house. We have no intention of it looking like a building site outside. My husband has just completed a handmade sprayed finished kitchen in our current home with a beautiful polished concrete countertop for under 1500 euro. Like i said previously we have every hope and WILL build our home for 150k with change!

A kitchen for 1500 euro with a polished counter in concrete.

Fair enough.

I am out.

dinnyirwin · 23-02-2014 03:32PM

Probably impossible in Ireland.

I watched this a few weeks ago.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03bjqk4

The house that 100k built. Its enjoyable enough.

DOCARCH · 23-02-2014 03:32PM

mandy gall wrote: »

Also very lucky to have a family of tradesmen.

That's the key for you completing your house for E150K, and you probably will, if you have 'a family of tradesmen' working at cost.

Well and good for you (and I mean that), you are lucky, but not much point in suggesting that the OP can achieve anything similar when the condition of their mortgage is they go the contractor route.

yawhat! · 23-02-2014 03:33PM

Save yourself the hassle and buy second hand!

You can buy savage houses in Kilkenny for 130K
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=735156#img=10

Plenty of builders though will be happy to work for 400 a week though just for something to do!

kkelliher · 23-02-2014 03:58PM

mandy gall wrote: »

Kkeliher To what countries are you referring to that you cant self build??? The uk have enshrined self builds and of course when an inspector comes and sees something wrong it must be rectified. Rightly so. Its funny you should mention monkeys as im beginning to think it was monkeys who drew up these new regs. We WILL build a top spec house with 150,000 and will show you how pics and all! You got a quote for 175 euro sqft in dublin but dont ye have the Luas there? The prices we are talking are for rural ireland.

My post referred to self building without supervision which is what operates in ireland and even after 1st march that may not change. In the uk you have to have every part of the process certified by building control officers. In ireland we dont have adequatly staffed building control and therefore there is little or no control.

Best of luck with your project but you have no chance whatsoever of building a "top spec" project fully finished meeting all building regs and paying for everything legally including vat payments, planning costs and all contributions, fully finished including driveways pavings and boundaries for 150k total. But again best of luck. You can post whatever value you like as there is no way for anyone to confirm or otherwise but at the end of the day your bank account wont lie to you

€130,000- What can I build?

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