Mexican Drug Cartels

clairefontaine · 22-02-2014 07:01PM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

An abundance of quantity.

Yet..... nothing you can say will take away the fact that Mexican cartels would have been 10 times smaller if they hadn't been able to cross over and get high capacity, high rate, high caliber weapons.

And I dont care if in your opinion I look hysterical, this is resorting to playing the man not the ball.

Would you like to say that the cartels didn't arm themselves with weapons from the US now ?? Please, feel free to.

They are ex military - they have their own sophisticated weapons.

MadsL · 22-02-2014 07:09PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

They are ex military - they have their own sophisticated weapons.

We they also have the ex-military weapons pumped into South America by the Reagan administration in the 80s. A ton of grenades are showing up in weapons seizures and they are not buying those in Dick's Sporting Goods.

MadsL · 22-02-2014 07:09PM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Yes I do actually. The paper is by Dr Jurgen Von Bingledon. Entitled : Mexico, Diabolical Monocle was right. 22/02/14.

So just your opinion then. Not a fact.

Stavros Murphy · 22-02-2014 07:15PM

I lolled at the "just a 4 hour drive from the border" anyway. That's like me saying I'm worried about the rise of criminality in Limerick, shure it's only a 3 hour drive from me. I may need to pack a gun, just in case I stray across one of the Dundons burying their stash..

MadsL · 22-02-2014 07:22PM

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

I lolled at the "just a 4 hour drive from the border" anyway. That's like me saying I'm worried about the rise of criminality in Limerick, shure it's only a 3 hour drive from me. I may need to pack a gun, just in case I stray across one of the Dundons burying their stash..

Because Mexico and Limerick are exactly the same thing :rolleyes:

You may laugh but perhaps you should read what border Patrol have to say.
http://townhall.com/columnists/katiepavlich/2011/12/07/riding_in_the_desert_child_sexual_exploitation_drug_running_human_smuggling_and_violence/page/full

But these cartels aren’t just targeting Border Patrol. U.S. citizens travelling along I-8 who stop for a restroom break often find themselves carjacked right off the road. The area can’t be used for camping, hiking or hunting as it used to be because the area is dangerous and drug and human smugglers are carrying high-powered weapons like AK-47s.

“If you see too much you may get killed out here because they [cartel members] don’t want witnesses,” Thomas said.

clairefontaine · 22-02-2014 07:22PM

MadsL wrote: »

We they also have the ex-military weapons pumped into South America by the Reagan administration in the 80s. A ton of grenades are showing up in weapons seizures and they are not buying those in Dick's Sporting Goods.

Yes that is quite possible, but they also have their own military supply and their own intelligence technology and contacts.

clairefontaine · 22-02-2014 07:27PM

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

I lolled at the "just a 4 hour drive from the border" anyway. That's like me saying I'm worried about the rise of criminality in Limerick, shure it's only a 3 hour drive from me. I may need to pack a gun, just in case I stray across one of the Dundons burying their stash..

On a US scale, a four hour drive is nothing.

The Diabolical Monocle · 22-02-2014 07:29PM

MadsL wrote: »

So just your opinion then. Not a fact.

Heres what backs up my opinion.
Would you like to tell me what backs up yours ??

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/20/AR2010052002911.html

Mexican President Felipe Calderón, speaking to a joint session of Congress Thursday, pleaded for more help in limiting the flow of weapons to Mexico, saying they were contributing to the devastating drug violence in his country.

In a speech punctuated by applause and standing ovations, Calderón thanked lawmakers for providing hundreds of millions of dollars to bolster his country's fight against drug gangs. He emphasized his government's resolve to confront the narco-traffickers, who have killed more than 20,000 people in Mexico in recent years.

However, he said, Mexico needs greater U.S. assistance stopping the flow of assault weapons and other deadly arms across the border.

"I understand that the purpose of the Second Amendment is to guarantee good American citizens the ability to defend themselves and their nation," he said. "But believe me, many of these guns are not going to honest American hands."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/dec/08/us-guns-mexico-drug-cartels

"Why does this arms business continue?" Mexican President Calderon said in June. "I say it openly: it's because of the profit which the US arms industry makes."

Last month, Holder told Congress that the US is "losing the battle" to stem the flow of weapons, and appealed for stronger legislation. Last year, Mexico's president, Felipe Calderon, pleaded with the US Congress to act.

"There is one issue where Mexico needs your cooperation, and that is stopping the flow of assault weapons and other deadly arms across the border," he said.

"One of the most senior members of the Zetas, Jesus Enrique Rejon Aguilar, said after his capture in July that the cartel is armed by weapons from American gun shops.

"All the weapons are bought in the United States," he said in a video recorded by the Mexican federal police."

The Guardian. The Washington Post. Mexican president Calderon. zetas cartel boss.

Dance for me.

clairefontaine · 22-02-2014 07:32PM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Heres what backs up my opinion.
Would you like to tell me what backs up yours ??

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/20/AR2010052002911.html

Mexican President Felipe Calderón, speaking to a joint session of Congress Thursday, pleaded for more help in limiting the flow of weapons to Mexico, saying they were contributing to the devastating drug violence in his country.

In a speech punctuated by applause and standing ovations, Calderón thanked lawmakers for providing hundreds of millions of dollars to bolster his country's fight against drug gangs. He emphasized his government's resolve to confront the narco-traffickers, who have killed more than 20,000 people in Mexico in recent years.

However, he said, Mexico needs greater U.S. assistance stopping the flow of assault weapons and other deadly arms across the border.

"I understand that the purpose of the Second Amendment is to guarantee good American citizens the ability to defend themselves and their nation," he said. "But believe me, many of these guns are not going to honest American hands."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/dec/08/us-guns-mexico-drug-cartels

"Why does this arms business continue?" Calderon said in June. "I say it openly: it's because of the profit which the US arms industry makes."

Last month, Holder told Congress that the US is "losing the battle" to stem the flow of weapons, and appealed for stronger legislation. Last year, Mexico's president, Felipe Calderon, pleaded with the US Congress to act.

"There is one issue where Mexico needs your cooperation, and that is stopping the flow of assault weapons and other deadly arms across the border," he said.

"One of the most senior members of the Zetas, Jesus Enrique Rejon Aguilar, said after his capture in July that the cartel is armed by weapons from American gun shops.

"All the weapons are bought in the United States," he said in a video recorded by the Mexican federal police."

The Guardian. The Washington Post. Mexican president Calderon. zetas cartel boss.

Dance for me.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/mexico/130716/the-6-most-infamous-zetas-crimes-mexico-drug-war

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_%C3%81ngel_F%C3%A9lix_Gallardo

The Diabolical Monocle · 22-02-2014 07:36PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/mexico/130716/the-6-most-infamous-zetas-crimes-mexico-drug-war

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_%C3%81ngel_F%C3%A9lix_Gallardo

My President Calderon trumps your global post (?) article which ....doesn't really argue with my point....but anyway.
My Washington post article trumps your wikipedia page...which again doesn't actually infer anything.

Hand 'em over.

clairefontaine · 22-02-2014 07:38PM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

My President Calderon trumps your global post (?) article which ....doesn't really argue with my point....but anyway.
My Washington post article trumps your wikipedia page...which again doesn't actually infer anything.

Hand 'em over.

Sorry, but your Guardian references destroy your credibility.

The Diabolical Monocle · 22-02-2014 07:39PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

Sorry, but your Guardian references destroy your credibility.

Dammit.

Oh well, Mexican President quote it is.

Mexican president. Relevance power: level 10.

.... have at you.

woodoo · 22-02-2014 07:58PM

I think the CIA needs to go in and assassinate the cartel leaders or pay someone to do so. .

MadsL · 22-02-2014 08:01PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

On a US scale, a four hour drive is nothing.

I can't even reach the next two largest cities, Denver and Phoenix, in 4 hours.

MadsL · 22-02-2014 08:23PM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

"All the weapons are bought in the United States," he said in a video recorded by the Mexican federal police."

He's wrong. Here's why. Firstly I accept a very high percentage of the weapons are sourced in the US, but here why ALL guns are not sourced there.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09709.pdf

Now if you want analysis; try http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110209-mexicos-gun-supply-and-90-percent-myth

22-02-2014 08:26PM

Just read they captured 'El Chapo.'

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/joaquin-el-chapo-guzman-sinaloa-cartel-chief-captured-in-mexico/

Stavros Murphy · 22-02-2014 08:29PM

Jake1 wrote: »

Just read they captured 'El Chapo.'

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/joaquin-el-chapo-guzman-sinaloa-cartel-chief-captured-in-mexico/

They probably were skimming Boards, saw that huge pile of cash in the O.P and decided to have some of that. This thread is all about the crime-fighting. Go Boards!

MadsL · 22-02-2014 08:30PM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Dammit.

Oh well, Mexican President quote it is.

Mexican president. Relevance power: level 10.

.... have at you.

Actually, you just backed up your opinion with the opinion of a politician.

You might look up the word 'fact' sometime.

ghostdancer · 22-02-2014 08:37PM

MadsL wrote: »

I understand your position on guns, please try and see why, when faced with lawlessness in remote areas, Americans feel the need to be prepared to defend themselves. Using phrases like "insanely overpowered" just makes you look hysterical about the whole issue by the way.

ah yes, because believing that anywhere remotely rural is a "lawless" area where people have to defend themselves against some sort of imaginary threat isn't completely hysterical :rolleyes:

FWIW: I've lived in the US, and travelled around both it and Mexico.
Rural America isn't lawless, no more than anywhere else in the civilised world, and the idea that you need a gun to protect yourself is absolute nonsense.
Large parts of Mexico are completely peaceful and far safer than many urban areas in the US.

goose2005 · 22-02-2014 10:52PM

20Cent wrote: »

I often wondered why don't the US just buy up the crop?

It would be easier and cheaper then all they spend fighting the cartels.
The grower sell it for a tiny fraction of what it gets sold for at the other end.

Same with Heroin in Afghanistan.

Because then they just grow more of it. I think with opium they've tried to move it from heroin production to producing opioid painkillers, with a little success

Stavros Murphy · 22-02-2014 11:11PM

ghostdancer wrote: »

ah yes, because believing that anywhere remotely rural is a "lawless" area where people have to defend themselves against some sort of imaginary threat isn't completely hysterical :rolleyes:

FWIW: I've lived in the US, and travelled around both it and Mexico.
Rural America isn't lawless, no more than anywhere else in the civilised world, and the idea that you need a gun to protect yourself is absolute nonsense.
Large parts of Mexico are completely peaceful and far safer than many urban areas in the US.

My daughter and her husband are just back from 3 months traveling around Mexico. Neither appears to have lost any limbs and to the best of my knowledge, neither went "packing heat". They said it was very nice and very friendly. Last year they did five weeks in Colombia and then Argentina. They said Medellin was lovely. I'd say you get what you go looking for, as is the case in most countries.

Temptamperu · 22-02-2014 11:13PM

Just had a wee bit of snuffles tonight, cant beat swinging out of herself while getting mashed on binky bonks!

Stavros Murphy · 22-02-2014 11:16PM

Temptamperu wrote: »

Just had a wee bit of snuffles tonight, cant beat swinging out of herself while getting mashed on binky bonks!

I read that as having a cold, riding and then watching that trailer park wan from the US.

I'd say I'm missing the gist. Nothing new there.

Fox_In_Socks · 23-02-2014 01:12AM

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

My daughter and her husband are just back from 3 months traveling around Mexico. Neither appears to have lost any limbs and to the best of my knowledge, neither went "packing heat". They said it was very nice and very friendly. Last year they did five weeks in Colombia and then Argentina. They said Medellin was lovely. I'd say you get what you go looking for, as is the case in most countries.

I pack Heat going down to the local shop for the paper. And a hurley stick with nails stuck in it is in the back seat of the car just in case.

Mossie McGuinness just down the road from me (4 hours drive) has a spread of 50 acres of middling to boggy ground, but even he won't step outside the door without having a bandolier or 2.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Afghan_National_Army_Soldier_with_Bandolier_Clips.png

He says things have gotten even worse since three months ago when some thieves took from old bailing twine that he'd set aside for a rainy day. A month before they took the old rubber tyres that he uses to weigh down the silage in the pit.

The McGuinness Ranch is under fair pressure, believe me, even without the banditos targeting his fodder consumables. The Sherrif (Garda o Driscall, Patsy The Master's lad, you know him) has issued him a summons about the TV licience for court, oh lads, they've no luck.

The Diabolical Monocle · 23-02-2014 05:04AM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

If insanely overpowered weapons weren't available just over the border it probably wouldn't have got this far.

MadsL wrote: »

He's wrong. Here's why. Firstly I accept a very high percentage of the weapons are sourced in the US (thank you), but here why ALL guns are not sourced there.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09709.pdf

Now if you want analysis; try http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110209-mexicos-gun-supply-and-90-percent-myth

So take it up with him. I never said all the guns were sourced in the US. Feel free to debate the president of Mexico on his grammar within the context of the internal affairs of the country he runs. I wont stop you.
Afterward you can read my first comment, and realize you just agreed with it.

MadsL wrote: »

Actually, you just backed up your opinion with the opinion of a politician.

You might look up the word 'fact' sometime.

Yes I backed up my opinion that if insanely overpowered weapons weren't available just over the border it probably wouldn't have got this far, with words from the same country's president who deals with it in depth as a crucial issue and as part of his work on a daily basis.

Perhaps just a wee bit reliable .... mmmmaybe we can trust the President of Mexico on key issues pertaining to Mexico.
oh no scratch that, he's a politician, somehow benefiting from this ... although Christ only knows how.

And then with the words of the bloody cartel boss himself. lol.

Fact -
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact

A truth known by actual experience or observation.

(your link kindly gives the observation by the ATF)

"Available evidence indicates many of the firearms fueling Mexican drug
violence originated in the United States, including a growing number of
increasingly lethal weapons. While it is impossible to know how many
firearms are illegally smuggled into Mexico in a given year, about 87 percent
of firearms seized by Mexican authorities and traced in the last 5 years
originated in the United States, according to data from Department of
Justice’s Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF)"

"If insanely overpowered weapons weren't available just over the border it probably wouldn't have got this far."

Tell me if the above quote is a fact.
Or wriggle around in denial, pedantics and obfuscation. Your choice.

tum ti tum...

CB19Kevo · 23-02-2014 07:29AM

Hard to watch and i have reported your post, However i know there is no bad intention behind it as this highlights issues in a clear cut way.
These scum need to be wiped from the earth.. Hard to believe with the tech and amazing minds that are out there that there is still such vermin in our society.

MadsL · 23-02-2014 07:37AM

ghostdancer wrote: »

ah yes, because believing that anywhere remotely rural is a "lawless" area where people have to defend themselves against some sort of imaginary threat isn't completely hysterical :rolleyes:

FWIW: I've lived in the US, and travelled around both it and Mexico.
Rural America isn't lawless, no more than anywhere else in the civilised world, and the idea that you need a gun to protect yourself is absolute nonsense.
Large parts of Mexico are completely peaceful and far safer than many urban areas in the US.

I did not say rural America was lawless. I said, and note the distinction,

why, when faced with lawlessness in remote areas, Americans feel the need to be prepared to defend themselves

Unless you are trying to maintain that there simply is no crime in rural America, then you are misrepresenting what I said in the most asinine way. What I am saying is that often when faced with crime, Americans feel that this is something they can take care of themselves as often the law is a long way away.

As you rightly point out parts of Mexico are beautiful, safe and great places for tourists to visit. However for me to drive there due south involves the joys of driving through the hell hole called Ciudad Juárez, which in 2009 was the number 1 murder city in the world. Police currently have over 1000 unsolved murders of women on their books. I don't advise it for a pleasant weekend trip really.

MadsL · 23-02-2014 07:57AM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

So take it up with him. I never said all the guns were sourced in the US. Feel free to debate the president of Mexico on his grammar within the context of the internal affairs of the country he runs. I wont stop you.
Afterward you can read my first comment, and realize you just agreed with it.

You seem to think I am taking issue with the idea that US bought guns are available to criminals over the border. I am not. I am taking issue with the blaming of the US for the way in which Mexico has allowed the cartels to ruin its country and that includes trying an utterly failed guncontrol legislation keeping guns away from lawful citizens whilst allowing cartels to run almost unfettered with massive corruption of the police. No wonder its president is looking around for a scapegoat.

Let me follow your argument here, US made and sold guns show up in Mexico where they are used for criminal ends. This is the fault of US gun laws. Therefore the preference in the early 70s by the IRA for American made and sold Armalite AR18s means that everyone shot by the IRA should blame the Americans.

Yes I backed up my opinion that if insanely overpowered weapons weren't available just over the border it probably wouldn't have got this far, with words from the same country's president who deals with it in depth as a crucial issue and as part of his work on a daily basis.

Perhaps just a wee bit reliable .... mmmmaybe we can trust the President of Mexico on key issues pertaining to Mexico.
oh no scratch that, he's a politician, somehow benefiting from this ... although Christ only knows how.

Benefiting? As a politician, I can't think how....:rolleyes:
And he would have no reason to be casting the blame elsewhere of course...

And then with the words of the bloody cartel boss himself. lol.

Fact -
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact

A truth known by actual experience or observation.

(your link kindly gives the observation by the ATF)

"Available evidence indicates many of the firearms fueling Mexican drug
violence originated in the United States, including a growing number of
increasingly lethal weapons. While it is impossible to know how many
firearms are illegally smuggled into Mexico in a given year, about 87 percent
of firearms seized by Mexican authorities and traced in the last 5 years
originated in the United States, according to data from Department of
Justice’s Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF)"

Many, not ALL.

"If insanely overpowered weapons weren't available just over the border it probably wouldn't have got this far."

US stores are not selling them hand-grenades now are they...?

Tell me if the above quote is a fact.

It is a fact that contradicts the Mexican president's assertion about all firearms, no?

Or wriggle around in denial, pedantics and obfuscation. Your choice.

tum ti tum...

So. I'll just wait here for you to actually respond to the ATF report analysis and accept that arguing about the sources of firearms is a bit pointless. Do you think that if the cartels no longer got US firearms tomorrow they would have any issue at all in sourcing firearms elsewhere?

Your complaint is like the person cracked over the head with a baseball ball blaming the MLB.

Unless of course you simply want to find yet another thing to criticise the US for? But that couldn't possibly your motivation here, could it? :P

23-02-2014 09:34AM

Toxic7 wrote: »

All for that white powder.This is only the tip of the ice berg when it comes to Mexico.As cruel as it is most people don't know this happens.Its wrong.
I will be banned very soon for showing the truth.

<snip>

Mod

I'm not sure what the content of the video actually is as I have no intention of watching it. Please drop me a PM with a brief description. Thanks.

Edit: Well seeing as you ignored this and re-added the clip to your post instead, you've earned a siteban. Good job.

The Diabolical Monocle · 23-02-2014 04:55PM

My original post:
If (b) insanely overpowered weapons (b) weren't available (d) just over the border (d) -- (c) it (c) -- (a) probably(a) wouldn't have got this far.

Heres a quote from the link you yourself supplied. It proves my post to be correct.

"Available evidence indicates many (*see a) of the firearms (*see b) fueling Mexican drug violence (*see c) originated in the United States (*see D) , including a growing number of
increasingly lethal weapons. While it is impossible to know how many
firearms are illegally smuggled into Mexico in a given year, about 87 percent
of firearms seized by Mexican authorities and traced in the last 5 years
originated in the United States, according to data from Department of
Justice’s Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF)"

MadsL wrote: »

I am taking issue with the blaming of the US for the way in which Mexico has allowed the cartels to ruin its country

I never blamed the US for Mexico's shortcomings on crime control/law enforcement.

Let me follow your argument here, US made and sold guns show up in Mexico where they are used for criminal ends. This is the fault of US gun laws.

Not my words. Yours. Strawman.
I would blame the gun-runner for them showing up in Mexico.

"If insanely overpowered weapons weren't available just over the border it probably wouldn't have got this far."

Is this true ? Yes or no.

Therefore the preference in the early 70s by the IRA for American made and sold Armalite AR18s means that everyone shot by the IRA should blame the Americans.

Not my words. Yours. Strawman.
I'd blame whoever pulled the trigger if I was one of those shot.

Many, not ALL.

I never said all.

US stores are not selling them hand-grenades now are they...

No. Just insanely overpowered weapons.

It is a fact that contradicts the Mexican president's assertion about all firearms, no?

I can't speak for the Mexican president at this time.
(Secretary keeps putting me on hold.)
(maybe you could write letter of complaint correcting his off the cuff use of the word ALL with the more specific 87% as found by the ATF)

So. I'll just wait here for you to actually respond to the ATF report analysis and accept that arguing about the sources of firearms is a bit pointless.

Here I am responding to the ATF report analysis. I find it to agree with my original post.

Me - "If insanely overpowered weapons weren't available just over the border it probably wouldn't have got this far."

ATF - "about 87 percent
of firearms seized by Mexican authorities and traced in the last 5 years
originated in the United States"

Unless of course you simply want to find yet another thing to criticise the US for? But that couldn't possibly your motivation here, could it? :P

No. Its not.
Anything else ?

Mexican Drug Cartels

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