Mexican Drug Cartels

DEFTLEFTHAND

All cocaine that comes out of South America goes through several cartels in Mexico before reaching the US, The biggest of these are the Arellano Felix family in Tijuana. A 7 billion dollar a year enterprise according to the FBI. Currently one brother is dead and the two others are serving time, they have up to 200 recruits running the show. These are the people whose use chainsaws on victims and kill innocent women and children who have no involvement in the drug trade just to fcuk with their rivals. They once even killed a Catholic Cardinal in Guadalajara in 1993.

It's a cash business obviously, take this bust in 07 in Mexico City.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clHmPwmF2bw

This rampant drug trade has cost so many lives, it's a problem I don't see Mexico ever ridding itself of. How do you even start in such a lawless hellhole were corruption crime and politics walk hand in hand? We don't have it too bad here in Ireland at all. :pac:

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

you decriminalise all drugs and then wait for legit businesspeople and contract law to do their thing

20Cent

I often wondered why don't the US just buy up the crop?

It would be easier and cheaper then all they spend fighting the cartels.
The grower sell it for a tiny fraction of what it gets sold for at the other end.

Same with Heroin in Afghanistan.

ygolometsipe

I wish I was a Mexican drug cartel

stefan idiot jones

Any got a chainsaw?

Banjo String

Mexico has loads of cartels, but it doesn't have an Olympics team.

Reason being. Any Mexican that can run, jump or swim is already living in the United States.

Dr Turk Turkelton

In Mehico I keel for maney but yoo I keel for free.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I was just putting the figures together in my head, the FBI who monitor their activities estimate the Arellano Felix family earn 7 billion per annum in the drug trade alone (not counting their extortion and protection rackets in Tijuana)

The top brass are either dead or jailed, an estimated 200 associates running the business currently, can you imagine the kind of money these guys are seeing off it. The top end obviously goes to both jailed Arellano Felix brothers but can you imagine what's going spare. I'd say even the lowest ranked thug is pulling a few mill a year.

bnt

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I'd say even the lowest ranked thug is pulling a few mill a year.

If it's anything like the retail drug business in the USA, then no. The entry-level jobs are more like internships: the pay is poor, and you're there because there's nothing else out there for you. At least drug dealing offers some prospect of future advancement (link):

Street-level drug dealing appears to be less lucrative than is generally though. We estimate the average wage in the organization to rise from roughly $6 per hour to $11 per hour over the time period studied. The distribution of wages, however, is extremely skewed. Gang leaders earn far more than they could in the legitimate sector, but the actual street-level dealers appear to earn less than the minimum wage throughout most of our sample, in spite of the substantial risks associated with such activities (the annual violent death rate in our sample is 0.07).

wazky

bnt wrote: »

If it's anything like the retail drug business in the USA, then no. The entry-level jobs are more like internship

That would actually be a Jobridge worth doing, flexible hours, good pay, by the end of the internship the intern will have extensive chemical training and basic chainsaw skills.

batistuta9

the sinaloa cartel & los zetas are bigger (and badder)

renegademaster

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

All cocaine that comes out of South America goes through several cartels in Mexico before reaching the US, The biggest of these are the Arellano Felix family in Tijuana. A 7 billion dollar a year enterprise according to the FBI. Currently one brother is dead and the two others are serving time, they have up to 200 recruits running the show. These are the people whose use chainsaws on victims and kill innocent women and children who have no involvement in the drug trade just to fcuk with their rivals. They once even killed a Catholic Cardinal in Guadalajara in 1993.

It's a cash business obviously, take this bust in 07 in Mexico City.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clHmPwmF2bw

This rampant drug trade has cost so many lives, it's a problem I don't see Mexico ever ridding itself of. How do you even start in such a lawless hellhole were corruption crime and politics walk hand in hand? We don't have it too bad here in Ireland at all. :pac:

are these the guys the american government done a deal with and allowed to continue their business cos they work for uncle sam?? if drugs were as dangerous as the yanks try to say they are then how can you do deals with such big players in such destructive product.

same here with whatshisface working for the garda while importing multi millin euro shipments of american protected heroin comign right out of afghanistan!! they couldn't work with a hash dealer no?? hash dealers get fcuked but the guys bringing in lovely heroin they're alright

renegademaster

20Cent wrote: »

I often wondered why don't the US just buy up the crop?

It would be easier and cheaper then all they spend fighting the cartels.
The grower sell it for a tiny fraction of what it gets sold for at the other end.

Same with Heroin in Afghanistan.

sure the americans have stood over the increase in poppy production since they decided to go into afghanistan while in Iraq. you do know the yanks are fcuking delighted to be part of the network that oversees production of 90% of the worlds streets heroin, do you know how far that money line oges into corrupting the corrupt and the black ops carried out by their multiple secret agencies and mercinaries for hire etc etc.

batistuta9

renegademaster wrote: »

are these the guys the american government done a deal with and allowed to continue their business cos they work for uncle sam?? if drugs were as dangerous as the yanks try to say they are then how can you do deals with such big players in such destructive product.

no, that was the sinaloa cartel.

bnt

20Cent wrote: »

I often wondered why don't the US just buy up the crop?

By "the US", do you mean US businesses or the US government? Businesses would face serious legal problems straight away, because the trade is illegal under current law.

For the government to get involved, Congress would have to pass a law, and they won't do anything that might alienate voters or their financial backers. You need a lot of money to get elected and re-elected, so most of their time and effort goes in to fund-raising, not law-making.

20Cent wrote: »

Same with Heroin in Afghanistan.

Dude, where have you been? Source:

Heroin is a multibillion dollar business supported by powerful interests, which requires a steady and secure commodity flow. One of the “hidden” objectives of the war was precisely to restore the CIA sponsored drug trade to its historical levels and exert direct control over the drug routes.

Immediately following the October 2001 invasion, opium markets were restored. Opium prices spiraled. By early 2002, the opium price (in dollars/kg) was almost 10 times higher than in 2000.

In 2001, under the Taliban opiate production stood at 185 tons, increasing to 3400 tons in 2002 under the US sponsored puppet regime of President Hamid Karzai.

The crop hit record levels last year.

The Diabolical Monocle

If insanely overpowered weapons weren't available just over the border it probably wouldn't have got this far.

Sir Arthur Daley

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

If insanely overpowered weapons weren't available just over the border it probably wouldn't have got this far.

I agree, they should have to have an NPTC award to use the saws and appropiate PPE.

biko

It'd be easier just to ask people in the US to stop using drugs.

The Diabolical Monocle

WikiHow wrote: »

I agree, they should have to have an NPTC award to use the saws and appropiate PPE.

Indeed, I hear they fought for territory using saws.

rolliepoley

The yanks could easily stop this, all they have to do is show them what a giant mushroom looks like.

pconn062

Interesting blog here detailing the activities of the cartels.

http://www.elblogdelnarco.info/

eisenberg1

El Narco: The Rise of The Mexican Drug Cartels

Great read and will go a long way to answer any questions you guys may have.

The Diabolical Monocle

rolliepoley wrote: »

The yanks could easily stop this, all they have to do is show them what a giant mushroom looks like.

FVCK YEAH !!!!

rustedtrumpet

Mexicans are little saps, just bean eating burrito boys. Little rent boys

MadsL

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

If insanely overpowered weapons weren't available just over the border it probably wouldn't have got this far.

Speaking as someone who lives less than 4 hours drive from the border, a few observations.

Citizens of Mexico have no right to carry arms, despite the massive amounts of guns in the country. This means that even retired police cannot defend themselves or their family from grudges.

Citizens of the US may have guns. This means that in certain parts of this state we can drive in remote areas with less fear of hijacking or assault, or accidentally running across cartel activity we were not supposed to see. I have hippy-dippy friends who are love and peace freaks who would not dream of driving around the border area without a pistol in the truck just in case. You simply do not know who you stumble across off the highway.

Mexico has decriminalised weed. New Mexico has been restricting even the legal medical marijuana growers licences (it is being taken to court as I type) - perhaps if the switch happened (the US legalised weed federally, and Mexico gave it's law-abiding citizens access to guns) we would not see 200k+ plus dead in Mexico.

I'd love to see Mexico, but my problem is that whilst I could cross the border and drive to the safe, beautiful parts of Mexico, I cannot take a pistol with me to drive non-stop past the hellholes in relative safety.

I understand your position on guns, please try and see why, when faced with lawlessness in remote areas, Americans feel the need to be prepared to defend themselves. Using phrases like "insanely overpowered" just makes you look hysterical about the whole issue by the way.

I do believe Mexico can rid itself of the cartels, most Mexicans I know grieve for what has happened to their beautiful country, but certain places have become utterly lawless, but the law-abiding have no legal means of proper self-defence against the criminal.

clairefontaine

MadsL wrote: »

Speaking as someone who lives less than 4 hours drive from the border, a few observations.

Citizens of Mexico have no right to carry arms, despite the massive amounts of guns in the country. This means that even retired police cannot defend themselves or their family from grudges.

Citizens of the US may have guns. This means that in certain parts of this state we can drive in remote areas with less fear of hijacking or assault, or accidentally running across cartel activity we were not supposed to see. I have hippy-dippy friends who are love and peace freaks who would not dream of driving around the border area without a pistol in the truck just in case. You simply do not know who you stumble across off the highway.

Mexico has decriminalised weed. New Mexico has been restricting even the legal medical marijuana growers licences (it is being taken to court as I type) - perhaps if the switch happened (the US legalised weed federally, and Mexico gave it's law-abiding citizens access to guns) we would not see 200k+ plus dead in Mexico.

I'd love to see Mexico, but my problem is that whilst I could cross the border and drive to the safe, beautiful parts of Mexico, I cannot take a pistol with me to drive non-stop past the hellholes in relative safety.

I understand your position on guns, please try and see why, when faced with lawlessness in remote areas, Americans feel the need to be prepared to defend themselves. Using phrases like "insanely overpowered" just makes you look hysterical about the whole issue by the way.

I do believe Mexico can rid itself of the cartels, most Mexicans I know grieve for what has happened to their beautiful country, but certain places have become utterly lawless, but the law-abiding have no legal means of proper self-defence against the criminal.

The Mexican cartel has a lot of ex Mexican military working for them. This means they have intelligence and also a sophisticated weapon supply. The US does not use its military in fighting the cartel, but local law enforcement and the DEA, sometimes with the FBI. So it's an uneven fight. And one the US will never win.

The US won't use the military against the cartel because that is not in its remit, so what it will do I suspect is further militarisation of local law enforcement and the DEA.

The Diabolical Monocle

MadsL wrote: »

Speaking as someone who lives less than 4 hours drive from the border, a few observations.

Citizens of Mexico have no right to carry arms, despite the massive amounts of guns in the country. This means that even retired police cannot defend themselves or their family from grudges.

Citizens of the US may have guns. This means that in certain parts of this state we can drive in remote areas with less fear of hijacking or assault, or accidentally running across cartel activity we were not supposed to see. I have hippy-dippy friends who are love and peace freaks who would not dream of driving around the border area without a pistol in the truck just in case. You simply do not know who you stumble across off the highway.

Mexico has decriminalised weed. New Mexico has been restricting even the legal medical marijuana growers licences (it is being taken to court as I type) - perhaps if the switch happened (the US legalised weed federally, and Mexico gave it's law-abiding citizens access to guns) we would not see 200k+ plus dead in Mexico.

I'd love to see Mexico, but my problem is that whilst I could cross the border and drive to the safe, beautiful parts of Mexico, I cannot take a pistol with me to drive non-stop past the hellholes in relative safety.

I understand your position on guns, please try and see why, when faced with lawlessness in remote areas, Americans feel the need to be prepared to defend themselves. Using phrases like "insanely overpowered" just makes you look hysterical about the whole issue by the way.

I do believe Mexico can rid itself of the cartels, most Mexicans I know grieve for what has happened to their beautiful country, but certain places have become utterly lawless, but the law-abiding have no legal means of proper self-defence against the criminal.

An abundance of quantity.

Yet..... nothing you can say will take away the fact that Mexican cartels would have been 10 times smaller if they hadn't been able to cross over and get high capacity, high rate, high caliber weapons.

And I dont care if in your opinion I look hysterical, this is resorting to playing the man not the ball.

Would you like to say that the cartels didn't arm themselves with weapons from the US now ?? Please, feel free to.

MadsL

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

An abundance of quantity.

Yet..... nothing you can say will take away the fact that Mexican cartels would have been 10 times smaller if they hadn't been able to cross over and get high capacity, high rate, high caliber weapons.

Would the IRA have been 10 times bigger if they had been able to get guns from the Republic? I don't know..they seemed to be able to arm themselves pretty easily. I think blaming the US for criminals arming themselves is a bit simplistic, such weapons are also available from Mexico's southern border and any number of countries around the world.

And I dont care if in your opinion I look hysterical, this is resorting to playing the man not the ball.

It wasn't intended to be ad hominum, I took issue with the language in your post. What exactly do you mean by overpowered?

Would you like to say that the cartels didn't arm themselves with weapons from the US now ?? Please, feel free to.

I never claimed that, what I pointed out it that Mexican citizens are unable to do the same as their northern cousins and arm themselves to protect themselves against criminals. If they were, perhaps the cartels would be 10 times smaller?

MadsL

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

the fact that Mexican cartels would have been 10 times smaller if they hadn't been able to cross over and get high capacity, high rate, high caliber weapons.

That's not a fact, that is your opinion.

Unless you have some science behind it?

NegativeCreep

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

All cocaine that comes out of South America goes through several cartels in Mexico before reaching the US, The biggest of these are the Arellano Felix family in Tijuana. A 7 billion dollar a year enterprise according to the FBI. Currently one brother is dead and the two others are serving time, they have up to 200 recruits running the show. These are the people whose use chainsaws on victims and kill innocent women and children who have no involvement in the drug trade just to fcuk with their rivals. They once even killed a Catholic Cardinal in Guadalajara in 1993.

They don't kill men, no?

The Diabolical Monocle

MadsL wrote: »

That's not a fact, that is your opinion.

Unless you have some science behind it?

Yes I do actually. The paper is by Dr Jurgen Von Bingledon. Entitled : Mexico, Diabolical Monocle was right. 22/02/14.

clairefontaine

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

An abundance of quantity.

Yet..... nothing you can say will take away the fact that Mexican cartels would have been 10 times smaller if they hadn't been able to cross over and get high capacity, high rate, high caliber weapons.

And I dont care if in your opinion I look hysterical, this is resorting to playing the man not the ball.

Would you like to say that the cartels didn't arm themselves with weapons from the US now ?? Please, feel free to.

They are ex military - they have their own sophisticated weapons.

MadsL

clairefontaine wrote: »

They are ex military - they have their own sophisticated weapons.

We they also have the ex-military weapons pumped into South America by the Reagan administration in the 80s. A ton of grenades are showing up in weapons seizures and they are not buying those in Dick's Sporting Goods.

MadsL

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Yes I do actually. The paper is by Dr Jurgen Von Bingledon. Entitled : Mexico, Diabolical Monocle was right. 22/02/14.

So just your opinion then. Not a fact.

Stavros Murphy

I lolled at the "just a 4 hour drive from the border" anyway. That's like me saying I'm worried about the rise of criminality in Limerick, shure it's only a 3 hour drive from me. I may need to pack a gun, just in case I stray across one of the Dundons burying their stash..

MadsL

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

I lolled at the "just a 4 hour drive from the border" anyway. That's like me saying I'm worried about the rise of criminality in Limerick, shure it's only a 3 hour drive from me. I may need to pack a gun, just in case I stray across one of the Dundons burying their stash..

Because Mexico and Limerick are exactly the same thing :rolleyes:

You may laugh but perhaps you should read what border Patrol have to say.
http://townhall.com/columnists/katiepavlich/2011/12/07/riding_in_the_desert_child_sexual_exploitation_drug_running_human_smuggling_and_violence/page/full

But these cartels aren’t just targeting Border Patrol. U.S. citizens travelling along I-8 who stop for a restroom break often find themselves carjacked right off the road. The area can’t be used for camping, hiking or hunting as it used to be because the area is dangerous and drug and human smugglers are carrying high-powered weapons like AK-47s.

“If you see too much you may get killed out here because they [cartel members] don’t want witnesses,” Thomas said.

clairefontaine

MadsL wrote: »

We they also have the ex-military weapons pumped into South America by the Reagan administration in the 80s. A ton of grenades are showing up in weapons seizures and they are not buying those in Dick's Sporting Goods.

Yes that is quite possible, but they also have their own military supply and their own intelligence technology and contacts.

clairefontaine

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

I lolled at the "just a 4 hour drive from the border" anyway. That's like me saying I'm worried about the rise of criminality in Limerick, shure it's only a 3 hour drive from me. I may need to pack a gun, just in case I stray across one of the Dundons burying their stash..

On a US scale, a four hour drive is nothing.

The Diabolical Monocle

MadsL wrote: »

So just your opinion then. Not a fact.

Heres what backs up my opinion.
Would you like to tell me what backs up yours ??


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/20/AR2010052002911.html

Mexican President Felipe Calderón, speaking to a joint session of Congress Thursday, pleaded for more help in limiting the flow of weapons to Mexico, saying they were contributing to the devastating drug violence in his country.

In a speech punctuated by applause and standing ovations, Calderón thanked lawmakers for providing hundreds of millions of dollars to bolster his country's fight against drug gangs. He emphasized his government's resolve to confront the narco-traffickers, who have killed more than 20,000 people in Mexico in recent years.

However, he said, Mexico needs greater U.S. assistance stopping the flow of assault weapons and other deadly arms across the border.

"I understand that the purpose of the Second Amendment is to guarantee good American citizens the ability to defend themselves and their nation," he said. "But believe me, many of these guns are not going to honest American hands."



http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/dec/08/us-guns-mexico-drug-cartels


"Why does this arms business continue?" Mexican President Calderon said in June. "I say it openly: it's because of the profit which the US arms industry makes."


Last month, Holder told Congress that the US is "losing the battle" to stem the flow of weapons, and appealed for stronger legislation. Last year, Mexico's president, Felipe Calderon, pleaded with the US Congress to act.

"There is one issue where Mexico needs your cooperation, and that is stopping the flow of assault weapons and other deadly arms across the border," he said.



"One of the most senior members of the Zetas, Jesus Enrique Rejon Aguilar, said after his capture in July that the cartel is armed by weapons from American gun shops.

"All the weapons are bought in the United States," he said in a video recorded by the Mexican federal police."



The Guardian. The Washington Post. Mexican president Calderon. zetas cartel boss.


Dance for me.

clairefontaine

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Heres what backs up my opinion.
Would you like to tell me what backs up yours ??


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/20/AR2010052002911.html

Mexican President Felipe Calderón, speaking to a joint session of Congress Thursday, pleaded for more help in limiting the flow of weapons to Mexico, saying they were contributing to the devastating drug violence in his country.

In a speech punctuated by applause and standing ovations, Calderón thanked lawmakers for providing hundreds of millions of dollars to bolster his country's fight against drug gangs. He emphasized his government's resolve to confront the narco-traffickers, who have killed more than 20,000 people in Mexico in recent years.

However, he said, Mexico needs greater U.S. assistance stopping the flow of assault weapons and other deadly arms across the border.

"I understand that the purpose of the Second Amendment is to guarantee good American citizens the ability to defend themselves and their nation," he said. "But believe me, many of these guns are not going to honest American hands."



http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/dec/08/us-guns-mexico-drug-cartels


"Why does this arms business continue?" Calderon said in June. "I say it openly: it's because of the profit which the US arms industry makes."


Last month, Holder told Congress that the US is "losing the battle" to stem the flow of weapons, and appealed for stronger legislation. Last year, Mexico's president, Felipe Calderon, pleaded with the US Congress to act.

"There is one issue where Mexico needs your cooperation, and that is stopping the flow of assault weapons and other deadly arms across the border," he said.



"One of the most senior members of the Zetas, Jesus Enrique Rejon Aguilar, said after his capture in July that the cartel is armed by weapons from American gun shops.

"All the weapons are bought in the United States," he said in a video recorded by the Mexican federal police."



The Guardian. The Washington Post. Mexican president Calderon. zetas cartel boss.


Dance for me.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/mexico/130716/the-6-most-infamous-zetas-crimes-mexico-drug-war

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_%C3%81ngel_F%C3%A9lix_Gallardo

The Diabolical Monocle

clairefontaine wrote: »

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/mexico/130716/the-6-most-infamous-zetas-crimes-mexico-drug-war

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_%C3%81ngel_F%C3%A9lix_Gallardo

My President Calderon trumps your global post (?) article which ....doesn't really argue with my point....but anyway.
My Washington post article trumps your wikipedia page...which again doesn't actually infer anything.


Hand 'em over.

clairefontaine

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

My President Calderon trumps your global post (?) article which ....doesn't really argue with my point....but anyway.
My Washington post article trumps your wikipedia page...which again doesn't actually infer anything.


Hand 'em over.

Sorry, but your Guardian references destroy your credibility.

The Diabolical Monocle

clairefontaine wrote: »

Sorry, but your Guardian references destroy your credibility.

Dammit.


Oh well, Mexican President quote it is.


Mexican president. Relevance power: level 10.

.... have at you.

woodoo

I think the CIA needs to go in and assassinate the cartel leaders or pay someone to do so. .

MadsL

clairefontaine wrote: »

On a US scale, a four hour drive is nothing.

I can't even reach the next two largest cities, Denver and Phoenix, in 4 hours.

MadsL

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

"All the weapons are bought in the United States," he said in a video recorded by the Mexican federal police."

He's wrong. Here's why. Firstly I accept a very high percentage of the weapons are sourced in the US, but here why ALL guns are not sourced there.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09709.pdf

Now if you want analysis; try http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110209-mexicos-gun-supply-and-90-percent-myth

Just read they captured 'El Chapo.'


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/joaquin-el-chapo-guzman-sinaloa-cartel-chief-captured-in-mexico/

Stavros Murphy

Jake1 wrote: »

Just read they captured 'El Chapo.'


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/joaquin-el-chapo-guzman-sinaloa-cartel-chief-captured-in-mexico/

They probably were skimming Boards, saw that huge pile of cash in the O.P and decided to have some of that. This thread is all about the crime-fighting. Go Boards!

MadsL

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Dammit.


Oh well, Mexican President quote it is.


Mexican president. Relevance power: level 10.

.... have at you.

Actually, you just backed up your opinion with the opinion of a politician.

You might look up the word 'fact' sometime.

ghostdancer

MadsL wrote: »

I understand your position on guns, please try and see why, when faced with lawlessness in remote areas, Americans feel the need to be prepared to defend themselves. Using phrases like "insanely overpowered" just makes you look hysterical about the whole issue by the way.

ah yes, because believing that anywhere remotely rural is a "lawless" area where people have to defend themselves against some sort of imaginary threat isn't completely hysterical :rolleyes:

FWIW: I've lived in the US, and travelled around both it and Mexico.
Rural America isn't lawless, no more than anywhere else in the civilised world, and the idea that you need a gun to protect yourself is absolute nonsense.
Large parts of Mexico are completely peaceful and far safer than many urban areas in the US.

goose2005

20Cent wrote: »

I often wondered why don't the US just buy up the crop?

It would be easier and cheaper then all they spend fighting the cartels.
The grower sell it for a tiny fraction of what it gets sold for at the other end.

Same with Heroin in Afghanistan.

Because then they just grow more of it. I think with opium they've tried to move it from heroin production to producing opioid painkillers, with a little success