Partner not contributing towards a house deposit. <Mod warning posts #77, #101>

LegacyUser · 19-02-2014 10:07PM #1

Hi,

I have been going out with a girl for about a year; both of us are in our early 30's and earn roughly the same.
I was looking for a house when we first started going out and had even put a few offers on around the time we started going out.
As none of these offers worked out I decided to hold off the house hunting until I seen what was going to happen with the relationship.

As we have been getting on really well, before the Christmas we started planning our long term future together. She keeps dropping hints that she won’t wait around for ever and a proposal should come sooner rather than later.
She lives a few hours away from me and the most logical plan with regards who moves is for her to relocate to where I live. This from both from a jobs and lifestyle perspective. She really likes where I live and from word go has said she would have no problem moving to where I live.

The problem is that when I brought up about buying a house together down the line, she has said its the man’s jobs to provide a house and that as I have a deposit already there is no need for her to contribute towards the deposit. After dropping hints over the course of a few months it seems that she does not have a penny to her name and in fact has debts totally about 10 grand. She has worked for nearly 10 years in a good job, so this came as quite a shock to me. When I ask did she ever think about eventually having to get her own place some day and needing a deposit, the answer is always that the man should provide the house and she never envisioned having to get a deposit together and she basically lived her 20s with this in mind. It seems it was always in her long term plan to settle down with a guy who could provide a house. She probably will be getting a site and possible a house from home, so maybe this was at the back of her mind as a fall back plan. She has also begrudgingly said that she will pay half the mortgage but feels hard done by as none of her female relations has ever had to contribute towards a house.

I have tried to forget the above and get on with things but they keep niggling at me. I can’t help feeling that I am been take for a mug.

So my questions are.
Should I be worried that she has lived her life waiting for somebody to provide her a house and I happen to fit the bill?

Should it be a red flag that she has worked for nearly 10 years in a good job and hasn’t a penny saved and in fact is in debt up to around 10 grand?

I have put a lot of effort into saving what I have and I feel let down by her, that instead of been grateful that I have put the money together I am been told that she is not entirely happy contributing 50-50 to the mortgage. Am I justified felling this way?

Penny Tration · 19-02-2014 10:46PM

You're only together a year and she expects you to put a deposit on a house which will presumably be in both of your names, and isn't happy to pay towards the mortgage. Add that to 10k of debt.

How much do you actually know this girl?

She sounds like a self entitled princes.

Gmol · 19-02-2014 10:49PM

Run like the clappers. She has an unrealistic sense of entitlement

jane82 · 19-02-2014 10:49PM

Buy a house. Let her rent a room off ye if she wants to move in. Legally keep her as a tenant.

Tokyo · 19-02-2014 10:50PM

dontknowwhattodo wrote: »

Should I be worried that she has lived her life waiting for somebody to provide her a house and I happen to fit the bill?

Yes.

Should it be a red flag that she has worked for nearly 10 years in a good job and hasn’t a penny saved and in fact is in debt up to around 10 grand?

Yes.

Am I justified felling this way?

Yes.

Honestly, these things alone would be enough to make me wonder if this girl had any idea what it was like to be in a relationship.

It's not the 1800's anymore, and if you are both earning roughly the same wage then it only makes sense that you both contribute equally to the deposit, and the future mortgage payments. From what you have described in your post, your girlfriend very much the mentality that her money was hers to do as she pleases with, and your money is to pay to support both of you. She "begrudgingly said that she will pay half the mortgage but feels hard done by"??!! What an unfeasible and unrealistic point of view.

If this is the stage that's being set so early in the relationship, then where is it going to end? IS it your job to provide her with a car? Pay for her holidays? Cover the bills? See where this is going? Honestly, I'd be sitting down with her and having a serious discussion to see whether the relationship has a future, let alone whether you should be buying a house together.

cletus van damme · 19-02-2014 10:53PM

mike_ie wrote: »

If this is the stage that's being set so early in the relationship, then where is it going to end? IS it your job to provide her with a car? Pay for her holidays? Cover the bills? See where this is going? Honestly, I'd be sitting down with her and having a serious discussion to see whether the relationship has a future, let alone whether you should be buying a house together.

Think too - if you split she'll get half of the equity after you did all the hard work.
I think you are been (attempted) taken for a ride here.
As mike said - I'd consider strongly if you are better off away from her.
There are better people out there

we'llallhavetea · 19-02-2014 10:56PM

oh dear... sounds like a complete gold digger, i actually cant believe that a modern woman would have such old fashioned backward views. i vote to get rid asap.

Penny Tration · 19-02-2014 11:07PM

Just one word of advice - don't put a house in your name and let her 'rent' from you. If you cohabit for a certain number of years (can't remember off the top of my head) she gains similar rights to the property as if she were married to you.

Meauldsegosha · 19-02-2014 11:08PM

I don't know what planet this woman is living on. So she wants you to provide the deposit and is hinting at a proposal. Will she also expect you to pay for the wedding? What about household bills, is she going to pay half of them? That is simply how not a modern-day marriage works.

OP listen to your gut, you are asking these questions and having doubts for a reason.

deisemum · 19-02-2014 11:11PM

Run for the hills, if ever there was a red flag waving this is it. She could stake a claim after a few years living together and if you marry her you take on her debt.

Stavro Mueller · 19-02-2014 11:30PM

Eh...is she for real? All I can say is be glad that you've found this out now while you can still walk away. What's also jumping out at me is this: She keeps dropping hints that she won’t wait around for ever and a proposal should come sooner rather than later. She's in quite the hurry, isn't she?

strandroad · 19-02-2014 11:42PM

She seems to want the kind of family where the man is a workhorse and the woman drops work for good once she gets pregnant, then expects to be provided for until the end of her life. Therefore she does not plan her finances well, she's waiting for Prince Charming to settle her bills.
It's not compatible with modern life unless you're a millionaire...

Merkin · 19-02-2014 11:43PM

Good God the woman is deluded, are you sure she hasn't some disorder whereby she thinks she's living in a Bronte novel? Her assumption, no her perceived God given right that you will propose immediately, fund a deposit and more than likely end up footing the bill for the mortgage is just shocking. Next she'd have her feet under the table and want to quit work while you also pay off her debts!!!!

She evidently has no grasp on reality and for that reason I'd be very very wary of any kind of involvement with her, tbh she sounds horrible.

Neyite · 20-02-2014 12:12AM

Can I give you a snapshot of what it will be like 20 years down the line OP? I know about it because it happened to someone I know.

They married, bought a house. She automatically owns half. He works his fingers to the bone, the kids are all in school, she sits in a messy house, on the internet all day long, buying stuff, browsing whatever. He comes home, picking up the kids along the way, puts together dinner and straightens up the place with the help of his kids. At weekends he tackles the DIY. She has never worked since they married.

He cant leave his job that he dislikes and retrain or take a lesser paid, but more fulfilling job. Because there is a mortgage and bills to pay, the kids are getting nearer to college age and he is aware needs to fund that. He has a hobby he loves but rarely gets to do it, because he is the sole provider.

If he were to split up with her, its almost certainly a future with a bedsit, huge spousal maintenance, child maintenance and weekends visitation of his kids, whom he adores. She would remain in a house that she has never paid a penny towards.

Why would you want someone who believes its her duty to leech off another person? Run for the hills OP.

MissFlitworth · 20-02-2014 12:22AM

You know if you buy a house together and she decides just not to pay half the mortgage there's nothing in this world you can do to make her contribute right? She also sounds like the kind to get knocked up very soon after moving in with you and become a Mummy-who-must-be-provided-for-including-debts-cleared. You'd, honestly, be mad to buy a house with, marry or move in with her unless you see yourself in a very traditional male provider role.

You're definitely right to be ill at ease with this situation

Mondo123 · 20-02-2014 12:34AM

She sounds deluded an living in olden times with views like that!... You really got to sit her down an go through the facts with her. Its actually a poor sign of her personality if she expects all this handed to her on a plate. Your not put on this earth to cater for all her needs - bugger that!

LegacyUser · 20-02-2014 01:01AM

Op I'm female, I bought my own house at 25 and have been paying for it myself and all that goes with that for the last 12 years. I decided at that young age that I wasn't going to wait for mr right to come along and do it with me! It's been a struggle but I did it all by myself and didn't have any help from a man along the way and I'm proud of that fact.

I met a man and married him which was a big mistake, he refused most weeks to give me anything towards the bills or mortgage and basically thought that because all the bills were in my name it was my problem which in reality was the truth. He bled me dry financially and it was a nightmare with me providing the roof over our heads, gas, electricity and about two thirds of the food expenses while he spent his money on whatever he wanted and he earned several thousand euro a year more than me needless to say the marriage is over and I'm recovering financially.

If you buy a house with your deposit and let her live there then after a period of 5 years (I think) you are considered to be a civil partnership and she would have built up equitable rights to your property much like a wife would have. If there are children in the relationship then it only takes 2 years for her to build up these rights ! I think under the act you can both opt out of the civil partnership by signing a document. Have a read of the act I think it's called the certain rights of cohabitants and civil partnership act 2010.

I would be very wary of getting into a situation whereby someone is so irresponsible they are ten thousand in debt and have nothing to show for it, indeed I would be insisting that she works down her debt before I consider buying with her, her debt would reduce the amount you can borrow for a mortgage anyway. What if you have children will you have to pay her debt then? You could also perhaps seek the advice of your solicitor if you buy with her to see if it is possible to buy as tenants in common rather than a joint tenancy. This situation might give you some protection should you split and you will get your deposit back as it would reflect the fact that you paid more for the house in the first place.

If I were you I would run away from her as fast as I could, she seems like a spoiled entitled selfish little maddam. She just does not live in the real world. If you put 10 grand deposit up I would be insisting she does the same, all bills split half ways. That's of course if your both bringing in a similar wage.

You have been warned op, the hassle I had trying to get my ex to waive his rights to the house I bought and paid for with my own hard earned cash after less than a year of a disastrous marriage nearly broke me, it was all you can't do anything it's my family home I know my rights etc, I had to beg and plead for him to sign and pay for all the documents to be drawn up while he sat pretty after living off me like a leech. Ha if you like I can introduce her to my ex he will knock the entitled attitude out of her fairly quickly!

Wise up, she has basically told you that your only a cash cow for her, a modern day relationship is an equal partnership and this is not what she is looking for in you !

Calhoun · 20-02-2014 01:08AM

Op, she sounds pretty deluded to me, has she explained what she plans to do with her income when you two move in together?

Before you even consider buying a house there are a few things or conversations i feel you should have;

I would want to know a good deal about her financial position, if she has bad credit ect and you both apply your in trouble as you might not get the mortgage.
What is her plan to clear her dept?
What does she plan to do with her money if your paying for a house?
Who funds the house keeping, general expenses and lifestyle you both will have? I assume you supply the house she looks after everything else?
Who pays for the wedding you will eventually have?
Who pays for the stuff for future baby?
Who pays for cars, holidays all that stuff?

My point is right now its only the house but as you can see from my list this will snowball and it really will set the tone of both your relationship and your future together. Marriage or a financial commitment like a house (like a marriage) is like a business venture it wont work if only one of the partners involved is contributing to it. She doesn't get to pop out a baby and that's her hard work done, not in this day and aged.

In my mind marriage should be an equal partnership with you both working towards a common goal, there should be an expenditure agreed up between both parties which will take care of all the bills and stuff that you want to do as a couple. After that if you want to have a little something for yourself you both can do that or just club it together in one account or something (i recommend keeping it in your own account).

If you continue down this path, 1. i fear that you will end up resenting her and 2. she will not appreciate what she has and being entitled as she is this could spell trouble for you in the future because think how fast this has gone to date. You can be damned sure if she wants to divorce it will go equally as fast and you will end up in a bedsit.

plasteritup · 20-02-2014 01:47AM

Important decision to be made,make sure it's the right one.

Stavro Mueller · 20-02-2014 01:56AM

If she's as reluctant as this to help out with the mortgage, it could well translate into her not wanting to contribute to anything else. I'm guessing you have an amazing job if you plan on paying a mortgage, running a household, buying two cars, having kids, putting money aside for college etc. all out of your salary

I find meanness to be a deplorable trait in a person. Selfishness is there or thereabouts too. I also wonder how well you do actually know this woman. It has only been a year after all. Why the big rush on her behalf to get married? Or is that part of her cunning plan.

LegacyUser · 20-02-2014 03:12AM

As a woman I would tell you not to buy a house with this woman, not to let her move into the house you plan to buy or not to marry her.

The reality is that you worked hard, budgeted and did without things for the past 10 years so you could buy a house. Your girlfriend is around your age and she told you that she expect you to propose to her sooner rather than later.

You have now discovered the following:

a) She has no savings therefore she can't give you money towards the house deposit.
b) Along with this she is €10 k in debit so it is possible that she has a poor credit history due to missing loan/credit card payments.
c) She begrudgingly said that she will pay half the mortgage but feels hard done by as none of her female relations has ever had to contribute towards a house.
d) Also if she has had a good job for 10 years why has she no savings and in so much debit?

You are right to be worried about the fact that she has been waiting for some man to come along to provide her with a house.

From what you have told us about her she will expect you to buy the house, pay the mortgage, bills ect. She is in her early 30's with €10 k of debit and no savings.
No wonder she is so keen to get engaged and for you to buy a house.
The reality for her at the moment she can't get a mortgage in her name due to being €10k in debit and having no savings.

I have to be honest here you have got a warning about what she is like and other posts here will tell you what could happen if you stay with her.

At this stage I would tell her that your relationship is over and let her know that you will not buy a house for her to live in or that you are not in a position to pay her bills in the future.

CaraMay · 20-02-2014 07:16AM

The girl might be in debt due to a car loan - we don't know and shouldn't judge.

Flippyfloppy · 20-02-2014 07:22AM

CaraMay wrote: »

The girl might be in debt due to a car loan - we don't know and shouldn't judge.

True, 10k isn't all that bad, and maybe she wasn't planning on buying a house or knew she was gonna meet somebody , however I do get the distinct feeling that she's trying to trick OP into thinking that what's she says is the 'norm'

I would certainly think trice before going there OP you should tell you YOU'VE been waiting for a wonderful independent woman who will contribute towards a house and none of YOUR male relatives has had to completely provide for their wife because this is no longer dickens time.

Meauldsegosha · 20-02-2014 07:24AM

CaraMay wrote: »

The girl might be in debt due to a car loan - we don't know and shouldn't judge.

This is from the OP - "She has worked for nearly 10 years in a good job, so this came as quite a shock to me. When I ask did she ever think about eventually having to get her own place some day and needing a deposit, the answer is always that the man should provide the house and she never envisioned having to get a deposit together and she basically lived her 20s with this in mind."

She never had any intention of saving a deposit for a house or just saving in general. Many people have car and can save/or pay a mortgage, myself included.

CaraMay · 20-02-2014 07:27AM

I agree her sense of entitlement stinks and you should tread very carefully op. You really don't need to rush into anything here and I would be waiting 2/3 years before making any commitment, including her moving in, if you are determined to stay with her.

Oryx · 20-02-2014 07:30AM

You know sometimes you see a situation where, say, a friend is making a big mistake and you cringe and think 'they really shouldn't be doing that...' but all you can do is watch it happen? Well, for me, yours relationship is like that. I want to yell at you to get away, and fast. She is living in dreamland but the trouble is if you marry her it will be your nightmare to provide for her, and whatever kids you have, on your own. That niggle you feel will be full blown seething resentment after a decade or so of that. The only good thing is that she is upfront about her expectations (which shows how deep rooted her conviction that 'men pay' is). I can't help but wonder how many previous boyfriends got the same vibe and dodged the bullet?

sligoface · 20-02-2014 07:34AM

This is your last chance to avoid long, long stretch of unhappiness. The writing is on the wall lad.

'I won't wait around forever for you to buy me a house' is what this equates to.

deisemum · 20-02-2014 08:08AM

With her mindset I wouldn't even trust her if you have a talk and she agrees to pay her share and I wouldn't be surprised if she only goes along with it until she has her feet under the table and a ring on her finger and then revert to form.

uck51js9zml2yt · 20-02-2014 08:16AM

I went out with a girl like this year's ago. She never put her hand in her pocket. Needless to say it ended quickly when I decided I didn't own a gold mine

helimachoptor · 20-02-2014 09:10AM

OP this is horrifying... you need to kick her ass to the kerb and move on.

To give you a totally opposite POV from this...

Myself and my wife were going out only a few months and she was in her final year of college, she wasnt working much (we both worked in the same place) I was in my 3rd year, so i gave her a lot of financial support during that time year.

The following year when i was doing my finals, i wasnt working much and she was working full time and we were renting a place together, during that year she probably paid 80% of any shared costs.

When i finished my finals I was contracting for about 7 months and iirc correctly was earning around 1300 a week after tax. We went on holidays i paid for, i paid rent for the months i was contracting etc. Then i get a graduate job where i was earning net in a month not much more than what i was earning in a week contracting. Neither of us had any debts and I had a small amount in the CU. We pool our money, it goes into the joint account it pays bills, we save from it etc.

If one us need to buy something we fund it centrally, we both have had a fair amount of dental work done, my wife got here's done first and then a year or 2 later i got mine.

Throughout this time the person earning more has changed a few times, early in our careers my wife earned more than me, however for the last 5 i've earned significantly more yet our MO will remain the same, the costs we bear are shared costs rent, bills, car and soon a baby

Frankly the ideas of the man paying for everything, i would presume she'd want you to clear her debts too, is bonkers, get rid as she's living in a different millenium never mind century.

stargazer 68 · 20-02-2014 09:13AM

Op put aside the deposit issue - a lot of people just don't have the money for a deposit - what would happen with mortgage payments, electricity, gas, bins, tv, internet, phone, water charges etc etc. Are you going to pay all those too? This clearly needs to be worked out before you go any further with this!

Partner not contributing towards a house deposit. <Mod warning posts #77, #101>

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