Partner not contributing towards a house deposit. <Mod warning posts #77, #101>

alias06

dontknowwhattodo wrote: »

Hi,
She keeps dropping hints that she won’t wait around for ever and a proposal should come sooner rather than later.

The question for you OP is do you really want to marry this women?

Whether or not she can contribute to the deposit for the house is small potatoes in the long run.

She seems to be pressurising you into making a proposal after going out for only one year. Fair enough, some girls have been messed around before and they want to lay it on the line about what they want - marriage and kids etc. But you have only been going out one year.

And I suspect you feel she is using you to get what she wants i.e. marriage, house and kids, etc. She doesn't really want you but wants the lifestyle and status you can give her and if you can't come up with the goods she will be gone like the wind.

Personally I would not enter into a marriage arrangement like this. Either your relationship is right or it isn't. If she was committed to an equal relationship then all the materialistic issues would fall into place in their own good time - she would eventually come into more money and be able to even things up. If the relationship was right it wouldn't even bother you so much anyway.

But the real problem is you have this niggling feeling that she is using you and you may well be right.

She has made it clear what she wants. If I were you I would be making it clear what I want - a partnership of equals where both parties contribute as best they can. And I wouldn't be rushed into any proposal either.

Personally I think this is a dead duck. I agree with Czarasm's post earlier. If you are thinking this way about entering a marriage it doesn't bode well. You looking at her assets and you trying to gaurd yours. Do you have any idea of the horrendous difficulties people can face over the course of their lifetime together? The stresses and strains. Illnesses. Bereavements. Could you trust her to be there for you and you for her? From your posts it doesn't sound like it. Sorry OP, just my two cents.

The Corinthian

username123 wrote: »

It's not a great attitude to go into a marriage with anyway, it's supposed to be a shared life.

If you marry someone who has nothing (except perhaps debts), what exactly might they share with you?

And please don't suggest labour, in terms of housework or simelar. Last time I checked you get to stop sharing that the moment you separate, unlike financial wealth. Presuming your spouse is even willing to do that - some are only traditional until it gets to housework and then become very, very modern all of a sudden.

Neither should anyone suggest that to do such calculations somehow defeats the purpose of marriage, if so we should equally pay no attention to any of the other warning signs of potential abuse; be it physical, emotional, sexual, and not just financial.

Marriage is not the same thing as love, and the two were never confused until about a hundred years ago. Marriage is a very serious socio-economic commitment and one that families and couples have treated seriously and coldly for a lot longer than we've treated it as some sort of selfless and mindless commitment of the heart.

Ultimately there is nothing wrong with looking before you leap, and I'm kind of sick of hearing people moralize about how we must all be doing marriage wrong because we're unwilling to leap in like lemmings.

The OP has frankly done nothing wrong.

alias06 wrote: »

Whether or not she can contribute to the deposit for the house is small potatoes in the long run.

I agree with this, but not with your conclusion about the OP. If he meets the right person, he won't be worried about her leaving him or squeezing him dry and destitute. He won't mind being exposed to her because he'll trust her.

The OP's problem is not that he's worried about his future financial well-being, though he would be a fool not to be. It is that he ultimately trusts her as far as he can spit a dead rat.

Neyite

By far the most common source of arguments and friction in any relationship is with regard to money. So it makes sense to be happy with whatever way works for you both as a couple, long before you legally cement the relationship. There isn't a one-size-fits-all answer here. Some couples pool everything, some like to keep certain things separate and pool for communal spends, some are quite traditional and feel the man should be the sole provider and ideally should be looking for someone who feels the same way.

My partner and I pool everything. We regularly dip in and out of each others wallets and bank accounts as we need. That would absolutely horrify others, but it works for us.

Her proposed arrangement does not sit well with you op. And therein lies your answer.

clairefontaine

You think you argue about money when you are together? Just wait till you split up.

On the radio this morning a man was arrested for soliciting first degree murder, having offered to pay a co-worker 10k to kill his wife so he doesn't have to pay alimony.

OP, if you are not happy with her and her money situation, you really need to find someone you are happy with. Things can get a lot darker than you'd ever imagine if not.

pwurple

Adding more to the resounding chorus.

She may be pragmatic about the current situation. There is no point in her borrowing further in order to provide a deposit, and if you both want to buy, and are in a position to do so, then now is as good a time as any, rather than waiting for her to clear her 10k and save another 20k. That's more of a 5 year plan.

However, it's the attitude which rings all sorts of alarm bells. Having no financial goals herself, and having worked for a decade with no savings whatsoever is indeed worrying, unless we don't have the full story. Perhaps she was supporting someone else. Maybe there is some hidden asset. Hopefully it wasn't all frittered away on booze and clothing.

I'd be another one adding to the call not to go down the marriage route until you were fully sure of financial situation. Marriage is a legal contract binding you very closely together. Undoing it is extremely difficult.

Stavro Mueller

I'm a big believer in following your gut instinct. Sometimes it's hard to put your finger on just why something doesn't quite feel right but there's always a reason. It can take a while for you to figure out what it is. So in short, if you're feeling unsure, don't do something you'll regret.

Czarcasm

pwurple wrote: »

Adding more to the resounding chorus.

She may be pragmatic about the current situation. There is no point in her borrowing further in order to provide a deposit, and if you both want to buy, and are in a position to do so, then now is as good a time as any, rather than waiting for her to clear her 10k and save another 20k. That's more of a 5 year plan.

It's not really, which is why I'm wondering why the OP is in such a hurry to buy when the residential property market is still quite volatile.

However, it's the attitude which rings all sorts of alarm bells. Having no financial goals herself, and having worked for a decade with no savings whatsoever is indeed worrying, unless we don't have the full story. Perhaps she was supporting someone else. Maybe there is some hidden asset. Hopefully it wasn't all frittered away on booze and clothing.

Expecting to find a man who is willing to pay for a house, IS a financial goal. Perhaps not the most noble of financial goals, but a financial goal nonetheless. Also, it's really not THAT unusual for a single person in their 30's in full time employment and living at home with no savings, to be carrying €10k of debt. €10k doesn't really buy a whole lot nowadays, and in full time employment is easily achievable to pay off in the short term. Hell of a difference between a short term loan commitment and a long term loan commitment like a mortgage. Any idiot can save for a deposit (not saying you're an idiot OP, merely an expression), but the REAL test is will the OP be able to maintain the same commitment over for example the next 30 years.

I'd be another one adding to the call not to go down the marriage route until you were fully sure of financial situation. Marriage is a legal contract binding you very closely together. Undoing it is extremely difficult.

Undoing the marital contract is the easy part. Expecting you'll walk away from it without consequences is where it gets extremely difficult. The OP's heart doesn't seem to be in it though any more once they got a teaspoon taste of reality.

pwurple

Czarcasm wrote: »

It's not really, which is why I'm wondering why the OP is in such a hurry to buy when the residential property market is still quite volatile.

Trying to outguess the very rock bottom of the market is a mugs game when it comes to PPR. I know my own buying power was far greater last year than in the preceeding 10. Properties which were previously completely out of our reach, suddenly came into the buying range. Caveat: I don't live in Dublin. :pac:

Rents are up, purchase prices are down, interest rates are down, and some credit is available. There may be an even BETTER time some undefined time in the future, in some locations, especially for those who are looking for an investment rather than a home. But now wouldn't be totally unreasonable for someone in mid-thirties with permanent job, no children, in full health, and a deposit ready, looking to buy their principal primary.

But that's OT.

Spizza

Czarcasm wrote: »

Why OP would you try and forget about something as life-altering as marriage and mortgage? Ignoring the issue won't make it go away. You need to address it. I also don't see how you're being taken for a mug. This girl has different values to you and she can hardly be blamed if you haven't expressed your concerns. That would be your fault if you didn't speak up when you had the chance, and while you still have the chance to do so.





Should your girlfriend be worried that that's all you think of her? She's clearly not fitting your bill, whatever that is. You haven't said anything about what you're getting or expect out of the relationship so she's as oblivious as the rest of us. What ARE you getting out of this relationship? I'm genuinely confused because one minute you're talking about how great you're getting on and the next thing you have your girlfriend painted out to be a frivolous, penniless gold-digger!





Plenty of people in that position, it's clearly going to be a red flag when all you're thinking about is money and the idea of you sharing your assets seems abhorrent to you. That would be as much a red flag to her tbh. You really need to sit down and have a proper conversation with her. You mentioned you're only going out a year and you brought up the house buying and marriage and that she's been dropping hints for the last few months. So how soon into the relationship were YOU thinking about these things?





You feel let down by her now? You had barely just met her when you started talking mortgages and marriage? She didn't even know you when you were putting this money together, I mean, call me cynical, but I can't help but wonder are you all about money and her going in 50/50 with you would've meant you wouldn't have had to part with as much of your money. You had designs on buying a house before you met this girl, so why should that change if you plan on spending the rest of your life with her?

You're focussing on the financial aspects of the relationship, but have you given a thought to what else this girl brings to the table and how she would enrich your life in other ways aside from financial? Have you given any thought to how you would enrich HER life in any way beyond financial?

These are the REAL questions you need to ask yourself OP, and these are the kinds of questions yourself and your girlfriend should be exploring, and it may just turn out that you are both simply incompatible with each other in terms of your attitude to, and your outlook on sharing your lives together, in which case it would be better for both your sakes to end the relationship now and go your separate ways.

Why do you always blame the man? If she kept him locked up in a basement for years you would find a way to make it his fault.

Tokyo

Hello Spizza, welcome to the Relationship Issues forum. I appreciate that you are a new member, so before you post here, please read the forum charter.

Considering the topics that the Personal Issues and Relationship Issues forums deal with, it is one of the more tightly controlled forums on boards.ie, and as such, we have a low tolerance for posts that attack other posters or opinions posted here. Please familiarise yourself with the rules laid out in the charter, and when you post again, keep it to constructive and mature advice for the OP. Otherwise, breaches of the charter will lead to infractions or bans.

Regards,
Mike

hey OP, i have to admit i would agree with the majority of people on this thread.

i was wondering however, does your other half have a back up plan?
i mean, if she doesnt find someone to marry how is she planning on supporting herself?

will she always live in houseshares? does she plan on living in some ****ty old flats for the rest of her life? or if she doesnt find a husband will she go home as an old spinster and expect her parents to look after her again??

there is very very very few women in their 20's or 30's that are not looking after themselves????

seriously, i cant believe that there are women alive today that all they want are to get married and live off their husband.
thats just mad OP!:eek:

The Corinthian

bubblypop wrote: »

i was wondering however, does your other half have a back up plan?
i mean, if she doesnt find someone to marry how is she planning on supporting herself?

Lowering one's standards would be a typical 'plan B'; where at 30 she may want a pretty fit 33-year old guy, by 36 she'll settle for a balding 45-year old one. Getting knocked up is another classic strategy. Children are the ultimate pension plan.

or if she doesnt find a husband will she go home as an old spinster and expect her parents to look after her again??

Got it in one. That seems to be exactly what happens. They eventually install themselves to 'take care' of the parents and make sure that they get the bulk of he inheritance, if they have siblings.

BTW, all the above - other than the 'knocked up part' - are to be found in both genders. It may seem, or even be, more common that the person in question will be female (presumably because being a 'kept woman' is far more socially acceptable than a 'kept man'), but ultimately it's a parasitic lifestyle that crosses the gender divide. Male one's tend to avoid having children with their host, so as to maintain the role of child dependant in the relationship.

there is very very very few women in their 20's or 30's that are not looking after themselves????

Financially there's plenty actually; I believe there are approximately 300,000 women and 7,000 men who identify as being homemakers in Ireland. I'm not suggesting that they're parasites, just pointing out that people not 'looking after themselves' financially are not so rare.

Animord

Really all this boils down to the fact that the OP and his partner have incompatible views on finance, which is a very big part of any relationship. OP you and she need to sit down and honestly share your views with each other, work out if there is any possibility of compromise on both your sides and then if not, decide whether this is something you are prepared to live with.

Tokyo

Okay, this thread seems to be drifting away from giving advice, and down the path of debate and discussion, which is not the purpose of the forum.

OP, a lot of good advice has been posted here over the past three days - I hope that you manage to take something from it. If you think that you would like the thread to be reopened, feel free to PM a moderator.

For now, thread closed.