Partner not contributing towards a house deposit. <Mod warning posts #77, #101>

michellie

Would the mortgage even be approved with her debts?

LegacyUser

+1 on everything that has been said previously : run !

A watch out she doesn't become pregnant "by accident" ...

username123

10 years of a good job, living at home and not only no savings, bu 10k of debt? And an assumption that some mug will come along and fund her future?

Is she having a laugh? This is an adult parasite. Let her get her blood suckers into some other poor mug, youve no excuses for not buying into this nonsense, she has spelled your future out for you - working for her!

Would you ever move on and find a woman who respects herself and you.

Sleepy

Kick her to the kerb and let her know she's not Carrie Bradshaw and that Sex and the City is about as realistic as Entourage...

Grayfoxy

dontknowwhattodo wrote: »

The problem is that when I brought up about buying a house together down the line, she has said its the man’s jobs to provide a house and that as I have a deposit already there is no need for her to contribute towards the deposit

Sorry buddy, I might seem ignorant, I have no intention to be, but I only got to here, sounds like my ex, my advice, give her the boot.

Semele

Quite apart from all the financial risks that other people have rightly addressed, I couldn't be with someone whose values and ambitions were so different from mine. How could you envision spending the rest of your life, through good times and bad, with someone you doesn't sound like they'd ever be prepared to inconvenience themselves for anyone else and who was likely raise hell if anything happened that meant you were unable to provide the standard of living that it is apparently your job to?

Regardless of anything, I'd find it hard to find someone with that attitude attractive in any way! Financial alarm bells aside- did it not make you go off her a bit?!

K_P

These are SERIOUS red flags. At least you know all this now before you're tied into a mortgage with her or married. Bear in mind that while she's begrudgingly agreed to pay half the mortgage, there's literally nothing that can legally force her to pay for half of it once you've both signed those papers. She won't pay a penny towards any house you may have. She probably won't want to work the minute she's married either. And I'd be fairly certain that she won't want a small wedding either - you'll be paying for that too. And once you're married, it'll probably be the man's job to take care of her debt.

You're lucky that you know this about her now before it's too late. If you choose to continue the relationship, at least go into it with your eyes open knowing that you will be spending the rest of your life not in a partnership with someone you love, but working to fund the lifestyle of someone else.

I can't believe I'm about to quote Oprah, but it's actually a phrase that I think is very true and useful to remember: When people show you who they are, believe them. This girl has shown you and told you what kind of person she is. Count yourself lucky that you know this now before it's too late.

miamee

OP, I think that by even asking the question here you already know that this is not normal and not on. If you haven't discussed this with any of your friends, you should. Maybe you already know what they will say.

If you really love this girl and want to make it work, I would suggest creating a goal that she makes serious efforts to clear her debt by a certain date and once cleared you can discuss moving in together. See how serious she is about you then. My guess is that there will be a list of reasons why she can't do or shouldn't do it or won't do it.

My actual advice though would be not to even bother doing that much. There have been similar posts in PI from people who ignored red flags such as yours and are now stuck in miserable marriages with children, no intimacy, no love and counting the days until the children are old enough for them to leave the partner. It doesn't sound like much to look forward to, does it?

Big Bag of Chips

She keeps dropping hints that she won’t wait around for ever and a proposal should come sooner rather than later.

You are only together about a year. You don't live together. Live 3 hours apart so only see each other occassionally. You don't know each other, at all! Before there is any talk of buying a house, or deposits or anything else you should at least live together (renting) so that you can see if you still get on so well then.

If she has said what I quoted above, then I would be concerned that rather than being in love with you and wanting a future with you she is thinking time is running out, and if you don't propose and fund the house, that she will happily walk away and find someone who will.

She needs to readjust her thinking. But, if she won't, then you need to take action. You need to sit down and have it out with her. If you feel uncomfortable sitting down and having that chat, then you should not be even considering living together, renting or otherwise. You are not wrong in wanting to share the financial obligations you will have as a couple. Equally, she is 100% entitled to feel that she should be provided for... But you don't have to be the one that does it, if it's not possible for you, or not how you want the rest of your life to be.

It's up to us, individually to lay out what we expect from a relationship. And she has laid out what she expects.. if you stick around, then you know EXACTLY what you are signing up to.

December2012

If you agreed with her, and that was also your mindset, I'd say go forth and be happy.

After all lots of people have different values and ideals.

However you clearly (and in my opinion, sanely) believe in a more fair partnership relationship.

Talk to her about it and if she does not change then break it off because disagreements about money will destroy any good in the relationship.

dixiefly

miamee wrote: »

OP, I think that by even asking the question here you already know that this is not normal and not on. If you haven't discussed this with any of your friends, you should. Maybe you already know what they will say.

If you really love this girl and want to make it work, I would suggest creating a goal that she makes serious efforts to clear her debt by a certain date and once cleared you can discuss moving in together. See how serious she is about you then. My guess is that there will be a list of reasons why she can't do or shouldn't do it or won't do it.

My actual advice though would be not to even bother doing that much. There have been similar posts in PI from people who ignored red flags such as yours and are now stuck in miserable marriages with children, no intimacy, no love and counting the days until the children are old enough for them to leave the partner. It doesn't sound like much to look forward to, does it?

Good advice.

Neyite

Sleepy wrote: »

Kick her to the kerb and let her know she's not Carrie Bradshaw and that Sex and the City is about as realistic as Entourage...

Bad example sleepy, all those women were self sufficient and paid their own mortgages.

And another thought op, we have plenty of pi threads here where they no longer have sex, or she is having an affair and the man has to either put up with a lack of intimacy or separate and she gets the house and kids. Think long and hard about this wannabe WAG.

Fentdog84

Na na she is inconsiderate and basically a user. She must see you as some soft touch no wonder she cant wait to get hitched with you quick enough. Its a mans duty to provide to provide the house? Really, since when was this a given, 1890? With an attitude like that i would be telling her to get stuffed. But then again its your life and your decision.

Sleepy

Neyite wrote: »

Bad example sleepy, all those women were self sufficient and paid their own mortgages.

As much as it pains me to admit this much knowledge of the show Carrie rented a rent-controlled apartment and realised in an episode that she'd all of her earnings of the past decade on shoes and having a good time whilst her 3 friends had gained their financial independence during that same time.

In the end, she got her dream apartment because she married a billionaire, not because she'd done anything to earn it.

Nothing wrong with fantasy TV programming until you try to use it as a lifestyle guide which clearly the OP's other half has.

Ironman76

Do NOT buy a house with this girl. It will end in tears and stress my friend.

Neyite

Sleepy wrote: »

As much as it pains me to admit this much knowledge of the show Carrie rented a rent-controlled apartment and realised in an episode that she'd all of her earnings of the past decade on shoes and having a good time whilst her 3 friends had gained their financial independence during that same time.

In the end, she got her dream apartment because she married a billionaire, not because she'd done anything to earn it.

Nothing wrong with fantasy TV programming until you try to use it as a lifestyle guide which clearly the OP's other half has.

What can I say? I clearly need to brush up on my SATC.

Though I do like Merkins take on it - A disorder where the OP's girlfriend thinks she is living in the 1800's. Bronteisym perhaps. A disorder capable of sending the spouse of the afflicted half-mad or to an early grave after a long life of loneliness. If it wasnt so horrifying it would be funny.

She sounds very calculated and self absorbed. This is a chilling thought because people like this rarely consider how their wants and needs impact on their "loved" ones- their husbands/ wives/ children. And even when they see that their family cant afford a certain standard on a single income, they push their partner to do more, that it wouldn't even be an option for them to get a part time job to help out.

I'm guessing that you pay for everything on dates with her OP? Just as an experiment, you may want to not pay the next time. Tell her its her turn to treat you. Just to see her reaction. Then consider that that reaction is one you will have until you are old and grey.

And seriously. Use contraceptive carefully until you are well shot of her.

Joshua J

It seems you have a consensus of opinion OP but being the contrarian that I am I'll come at this from another point of view.

OK you are both in your 30's. People are saying her clock is ticking that's why she's talking about marraige etc. Nothing wrong with that. Especially if you also want to settle down and start a family. And what happens when/if the baby is born?. You'll be supporting her then. How many children do you want?. 1,2,3.......? If you want more than one you'd need to probably go straight after again. Have three kids?. Well she's gonna be off work for a good few years with you supporting?.

If you get married and buy a house together her debt goes from 10k to about 200k joint. You said she's getting land. Can you build there?. Is it near to where you want to live?. Can she sell it for deposit?. When married does it also become yours when she inherits (I honestly don't know)?.

Where she lives does she keep it clean and tidy?. If she does chances are she'll keep house clean too. Would she be a good mother/wife?. It's not un heard of for one half to support the other. What if she was unemployed when you met?. Would you not have gone out with her?. What if she made way less than you? Would she be unsuitable to marry?. Do you want a family? Do you love her?.

Think hard OP. Be careful not to cut off your nose to spite your face. All the money in the world won't cure regret.

Best of luck.

jlm29

Sleepy wrote: »

As much as it pains me to admit this much knowledge of the show Carrie rented a rent-controlled apartment and realised in an episode that she'd all of her earnings of the past decade on shoes and having a good time whilst her 3 friends had gained their financial independence during that same time.

In the end, she got her dream apartment because she married a billionaire, not because she'd done anything to earn it.

Nothing wrong with fantasy TV programming until you try to use it as a lifestyle guide which clearly the OP's other half has.

It is so wrong that I'm going to dispute this, but I recently (hangs head in shame) watched all six series of SATC, so I'm a bit of an expert at the moment!!
Carrie realised she'd spent all her money on shoes, but then Charlotte lent her the money for a deposit, and she bought her own apartment. By the time her and big bought their apartment, she was quite successful in her own right, so we can assume she was contributing!!

Anyhow, totally off topic (as well as a bit embarrassing!!), op, I'd be concerned that she has no intention of paying her way, it's not a great attitude for someone to have, IMO!! Before you know it, she'll hand in her notice and spend her days watching sex and the city box sets!!!

Has she ever discussed any plans to clear her debt? It would be a good indication of how she sees her own responsibilities.

That said, she sounds like a singularly spoilt individual who not only expects to be carried her whole life, but would probably bail at the first sign of things going badly for the OP. Let's face it, if he ever lost his job she'd be the last person to step up and keep the unit going.

Don't just leave her because she's in debt or has old fashioned attitudes (she probably calls them traditional).

Leave her because she's very, very, selfish. One thing that never changes is a selfish persons ability to put themselves above absolutely everything else, and few people could be happy living with that.

K_P

Joshua J wrote: »

Where she lives does she keep it clean and tidy?. If she does chances are she'll keep house clean too. Would she be a good mother/wife?. It's not un heard of for one half to support the other. What if she was unemployed when you met?. Would you not have gone out with her?. What if she made way less than you? Would she be unsuitable to marry?. Do you want a family? Do you love her?.

I see where you're coming from Joshua J and it's no harm playing devil's advocate, but to be fair I don't think you're comparing like with like. The OP's partner has a good job, earns something similar to the OP but has decided that he should pay her way in life. That's very different to a couple discussing and deciding on one being a stay at home parent, or one being out of work through no fault or choice of their own. It's about two people having fundamentally different sets of values.

I dunno, I think I've just seen so many threads on here lately from partners (usually husbands it has to be said) who are married to women who don't love them, have no sex life or any form of affection in their marriage, are working day and night to fund the wife's lifestyle and only stay as they're terrified of never seeing their kids again if they leave. And they pretty much all say that they hoped things would change once they were married. I honestly think the OP is in danger of becoming one of these men.

Chara1001

The thing that really jumps out at me here is that you're talking about buying a house, she expects to live in it for free (ignore the 'grudging 50%' it's not going to happen)- BUT you haven't lived together. You seriously need to rent for a year to see how you get on- like will you end up paying for everything? OP to go from living 3 hours away from each other to buying a house together or for her is crazy talk.

I have to say, she has been totally upfront and honest (delusional possibly) but you can't say you weren't warned. I'm curious to know what she expects to bring to the relationship. You bring the house & bills- what's her responsibility? Does she talk about a traditional setup where she raises children and looks after the house? Or does she intend to keep working, share the housework and keep her money for herself? Have you asked any of these questions?

Of course it happens that one partner has to support the other for a period- or where there are children involved, one partner might need to solely cover all the family expenses for a few years even- but op, that's family life- and that's not what you have here. You have been together for only a year, sorry but I can't see how you're going to make it work.

P.s - I'm going to echo some of the other posters- please be very careful with contraception

Joshua J

K_P wrote: »

I see where you're coming from Joshua J and it's no harm playing devil's advocate, but to be fair I don't think you're comparing like with like. The OP's partner has a good job, earns something similar to the OP but has decided that he should pay her way in life. That's very different to a couple discussing and deciding on one being a stay at home parent, or one being out of work through no fault or choice of their own. It's about two people having fundamentally different sets of values.

I dunno, I think I've just seen so many threads on here lately from partners (usually husbands it has to be said) who are married to women who don't love them, have no sex life or any form of affection in their marriage, are working day and night to fund the wife's lifestyle and only stay as they're terrified of never seeing their kids again if they leave. And they pretty much all say that they hoped things would change once they were married. I honestly think the OP is in danger of becoming one of these men.

Well what I got from the OP is that she is bad with money and has some old fashioned attitudes. The OP isn't the some of her character. She could be a gold digging wagon we don't know. She may be really generous in other aspects of her life.

Anyway the OP needs to lay it out straight and not work off hints.

Czarcasm

dontknowwhattodo wrote: »

I have tried to forget the above and get on with things but they keep niggling at me. I can’t help feeling that I am been take for a mug.

Why OP would you try and forget about something as life-altering as marriage and mortgage? Ignoring the issue won't make it go away. You need to address it. I also don't see how you're being taken for a mug. This girl has different values to you and she can hardly be blamed if you haven't expressed your concerns. That would be your fault if you didn't speak up when you had the chance, and while you still have the chance to do so.

So my questions are.
Should I be worried that she has lived her life waiting for somebody to provide her a house and I happen to fit the bill?

Should your girlfriend be worried that that's all you think of her? She's clearly not fitting your bill, whatever that is. You haven't said anything about what you're getting or expect out of the relationship so she's as oblivious as the rest of us. What ARE you getting out of this relationship? I'm genuinely confused because one minute you're talking about how great you're getting on and the next thing you have your girlfriend painted out to be a frivolous, penniless gold-digger!

Should it be a red flag that she has worked for nearly 10 years in a good job and hasn’t a penny saved and in fact is in debt up to around 10 grand?

Plenty of people in that position, it's clearly going to be a red flag when all you're thinking about is money and the idea of you sharing your assets seems abhorrent to you. That would be as much a red flag to her tbh. You really need to sit down and have a proper conversation with her. You mentioned you're only going out a year and you brought up the house buying and marriage and that she's been dropping hints for the last few months. So how soon into the relationship were YOU thinking about these things?

I have put a lot of effort into saving what I have and I feel let down by her, that instead of been grateful that I have put the money together I am been told that she is not entirely happy contributing 50-50 to the mortgage. Am I justified felling this way?

You feel let down by her now? You had barely just met her when you started talking mortgages and marriage? She didn't even know you when you were putting this money together, I mean, call me cynical, but I can't help but wonder are you all about money and her going in 50/50 with you would've meant you wouldn't have had to part with as much of your money. You had designs on buying a house before you met this girl, so why should that change if you plan on spending the rest of your life with her?

You're focussing on the financial aspects of the relationship, but have you given a thought to what else this girl brings to the table and how she would enrich your life in other ways aside from financial? Have you given any thought to how you would enrich HER life in any way beyond financial?

These are the REAL questions you need to ask yourself OP, and these are the kinds of questions yourself and your girlfriend should be exploring, and it may just turn out that you are both simply incompatible with each other in terms of your attitude to, and your outlook on sharing your lives together, in which case it would be better for both your sakes to end the relationship now and go your separate ways.

jane82

That thing in your pants isnt what you make life long relationship choices with OP.
In 5 years she wont look like that. If she offers nothing else whatll ye have then.
Looks alone wont boil the spuds as they say.
Buy the house then get a 20 year old to milk ye at least then you get a bit of mileage out of your money.

Crank Stain

OP, you should get confirmation of the full value of her debts before you proceed. I was in a situation where debts of "about €10k" were in reality closer to €20k.

If you decide you dont want to end the relationship, can you insist she clears her debts before you propose?
As another poster mentioned her debts may work against her if you intend to get a joint mortgage.

As I see it the worst case senario is that you pay off her debts, the marrage breaks down and she gets the hourse and the engagement ring, etc.,

seenitall

jlm29 wrote: »

It is so wrong that I'm going to dispute this, but I recently (hangs head in shame) watched all six series of SATC, so I'm a bit of an expert at the moment!!
Carrie realised she'd spent all her money on shoes, but then Charlotte lent her the money for a deposit, and she bought her own apartment. By the time her and big bought their apartment, she was quite successful in her own right, so we can assume she was contributing!!

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I very recently read two separate gossipy type pieces regarding Gisele Buendchen and Reese Witherspoon (very wealthy women both) respectively, where they seemingly both expect their husbands to provide for them, down to the smallest, day-to-day expenses, in the spirit of old-fashioned family values presumably.:rolleyes:

Cringe.

Sleepy

jlm29 wrote: »

It is so wrong that I'm going to dispute this, but I recently (hangs head in shame) watched all six series of SATC, so I'm a bit of an expert at the moment!!
Carrie realised she'd spent all her money on shoes, but then Charlotte lent her the money for a deposit, and she bought her own apartment. By the time her and big bought their apartment, she was quite successful in her own right, so we can assume she was contributing!!

Anyhow, totally off topic (as well as a bit embarrassing!!), op, I'd be concerned that she has no intention of paying her way, it's not a great attitude for someone to have, IMO!! Before you know it, she'll hand in her notice and spend her days watching sex and the city box sets!!!

I'll bow to your superior knowledge of the subject! That said: the character in question's income was something out of absolute fantasy-land anyway, there's no way she could have lived the lifestyle she did based on an (awful) single weekly column in a newspaper.

/sorry for the OT

Taltos

jane82 - if you cannot express yourself in a civil adult manner please consider not posting here.
This forum deals with serious issues and we have little tolerance for those who are not willing to post in the spirit of the forum.

Please read our charter and a number of threads to get a grasp on what is acceptable here before you post again. Further posts of this nature will result in infractions and/or outright bans.

Taltos

The Corinthian

Neyite wrote: »

Though I do like Merkins take on it - A disorder where the OP's girlfriend thinks she is living in the 1800's.

It's not though. It's selectively living in the 1800's.

You see, and I've noticed that this revelation is quite upsetting to such women, the traditional model was not all 'roses'. Sure, she would be taken care of financially and would never have to go out to find a job to support herself (which, btw, is not true because in working class families, both had to work anyway).

But, for a start, she would have to cook and keep a spotless home - and hubby wasn't going to lift a finger to help. The guy you know, that you cited earlier, is a good example of this 'cake and eat it' approach to the traditional marriage, but it's hardly unique.

But if you didn't keep a spotless home you, as a wife, were considered a bad wife. And a bad wife deserved a slap every now and then, lest we forget.

There'd be no husbands posting on PI that the wife doesn't want to have sex either; the true traditional model, it was her duty, even if she didn't want to - marital rape didn't exist legally - he had conjugal rights. But if she was lucky he'd just go to prostitutes on a regular basis. Better still, he'd have a mistress; which other than meaning that she was less likely to get syphilis, it was also a sign that you were at least upper middle class, to be able to afford a mistress. Watch those neighbours go green with jealousy...

So don't mistake it for a disorder where the OP's girlfriend thinks she is living in the 1800's. The 1800's were never so rosy for women and were he to point this out to his other half, she'd likely be quite upset by the revelations. Instead, it's a fantasy version of the 1800's where all the old patriarchal advantages a wife had are retained and none of the many disadvantages are; a narcissistic invention designed to justify what is ultimately a parasitic lifestyle, that somehow is still condoned by our society.

I'd add advice to the OP, but it would be a repetition of the last 60-odd pieces of advice. I'd just stop all sex and break up ASAP if I were him, whether he wants to tell her the real reason why is up to him.

Borderfox

Years ago I went out with a Germany girl, wouldn't put her hand in her pocket. Didn't mind it for the first six months but after that it got under my skin. She ended up leaving up her job without applying for another and asked could she move in with me, I got her a plane ticket back to Germany.

Now that might sound harsh but I knew exactly where that was going.

OP, protect yourself