2014 Champion Hurdle

zpehtsfd wrote: »

Graham Cunninghams comments on where AP should go:

"6: Should Annie Power run in the Champion or the World Hurdle?
To answer this question simply ask yourself another, namely "which race would AP be going for if Hurricane Fly wasn't around?"It's long odds on she would be Champion bound and those who feel she should go for the World Hurdle need to counter the following facts. First, she has never raced over three miles; second, she's unbeaten over two miles and Ruby Walsh said "I didn't really get her settled until the second last" over that trip at Donny on her latest start; third, she would be top rated for the Champion on Timeform figures with her mares' allowance; and fourth, the presence of her freewheeling stablemate Un De Sceaux promises to make this year's Champion a very strong stamina test. The very best two milers belong in the best two mile races and Annie Power is clearly one of the best two milers aged just six. There is ample time for her to step up to three miles later on, but she has earned a crack at this year's Champion. Others will disagree, but it would be a real shame if the fact that her stable houses the reigning champ is used to shoehorn her into a World Hurdle which will be easier to win but carries nothing like the same prestige."


Spot on GC.

You really know you are clutching at straws when you have to resort to qouting Graham fcuking Cunningham to validate your arguement, FWIW I read the full article that the above appeared in and the amount of inconsistencies, drivel and false info in it was staggering even for Cunningham.

premierstone wrote: »

You really know you are clutching at straws when you have to resort to qouting Graham fcuking Cunningham to validate your arguement, FWIW I read the full article that the above appeared in and the amount of inconsistencies, drivel and false info in it was staggering even for Cunningham.

Actually i bolded the GC quote that i thought outlined the situation on AP. I agree that the full article had inconsistencies but it did have some decent parts and i chose to draw on one of them. I'm not looking for validation, just posting things here and there. Clearly this has annoyed you so i apologize and i'll try to be more understanding going forward.

premierstone wrote: »

Hasn't anoyed me at all, I just really dislike that spoofer

Honestly premierstone - do you really think Annie Power would be going the world hurdle route if hurricane fly wasn't running in the champion? Ask yourself that question honestly and post your honest answer

klairondavis wrote: »

But Hurricane Fly is running. I think Mullins and Walsh genuinely believe that the mare wouldn't beat him so she is best off else where.

Nigh-on impossible for them to be certain she can't beat him. Educated guesswork at best. Same applies for UDS.

klairondavis wrote: »

Never said they were certain but I think it is what they believe.

They're in a far better position to judge than the rest of us to be fair.

Obviously but a race situation is totally different. Ground, tactics, course will all play a major part. AP is still way too much of an unknown to tell if she can or cannot beat HF. Much more likely, as two greedy feckers, that Willie and Ruby want their best horses split.

premierstone wrote: »

Really?? What was wrong with Hurricane Fly, TNO and Jezkis campaign, infact I would argue they all had a better prep as they werent running in a redicilous flat race in Dundalk, and as I asked before and no one answered how many races exactly does if get for this 5 year old to actually get fit??

All the horses that line up in the Champion will have been trained for that race and that race only ( Annie Power won't line up) the only one who may be at a disadvantage in that regard is MTOY who probably needed a prep run owing to his freshness and running style.

The improvement each time can you not see it?
Please refer to Hardy Eustace and check its last 4 runs each time prior to winning the Champion Hurdle in 2004 and 2005 for trainers methods.
The Triumph last year can you not see it?

Dessie has said this horse wont be spot on until March.
Last year connections of the horse told everyone in the ring to just back Our Conor, he will win easy the confidence was massive and its coming again.

I agree its a top class race even more so this year if they all line up fit.
FWIW HF is a worthy champion and deserves to head the market.

But you also have to agree last seasons Triumph win was an all Ireland final winning performance!

shamdrog63 wrote: »

Was it REALLY? I know he won by 15 lengths but look at the field he beat.

I have...

Far West - 4 times winner and Grade 2 hurdle winner prior to Triumph, first race directly after the Triumph was beaten under 2 lengths by Melodic Rendezvous in a grade 2 hurdle 60k , regressed since that day.

Sametegal - Maintained form, if anything has improved since, first race directly after the Triumph was beaten 2 lengths by Court Minstrel in a grade 2 Scottish Champion Hurdle 80k and won the next race 30k .

Diakali - Improved, form in France and hurdle wins (80k) (270k) (27k) after the Triumph suggest same.

Rolling Star - not progressed, did win a 2 mile hurdle worth 25k after the Triumph beating Far West, since then disappointing.

Chris Pea Green - Maintained form lines.

Lac Fontana - Improved, notably at Cheltenham (2 wins) including beating a decent field by 5 lengths in a 25k hurdle, no answer for the grade 1 which was won by The Liquidator but I suspect that horse is very good.

Swnymor - Not progressed, should be running on the flat, switched stables and still nothing to note, wasn't really a top horse prior and is not a top horse after the Triumph.

The horses below were beaten by 78 lengths or more

Hidden Justice, Somemothersdohavem, Kashmir Peak and King Of Dudes have hardly lit up the world after the Triumph but it is interesting to note they have all either won or finished under a half length beaten in their next races.

ste2010 wrote: »

Honestly premierstone - do you really think Annie Power would be going the world hurdle route if hurricane fly wasn't running in the champion? Ask yourself that question honestly and post your honest answer

But HF is in the race, and also I don't think she would win the Champion even if HF wasn't in it, she hasn't the natural speed for 2m IMO and while she is unproven over 3m it looks like she will see it out comfortably.

paddy no 11 wrote: »

They said OC was stood in box for 3 weeks after the joyride and that most of the early season work waqs wasted. certainly there was a marked improvement between his comeback and the last race, about 4 lengths, its hardly inconcieveable that he could pull out another 2l for the CH.

Firstly he needs to pull out more than 2l, secondly you are assuming that HF wont improve either and thirdly HF missed work and Mullins has dsaid He came in from the grass after the Summer and was as big as he has even been.

Malarkey121 wrote: »

The improvement each time can you not see it?
Please refer to Hardy Eustace and check its last 4 runs each time prior to winning the Champion Hurdle in 2004 and 2005 for trainers methods.
The Triumph last year can you not see it?

Dessie has said this horse wont be spot on until March.
Last year connections of the horse told everyone in the ring to just back Our Conor, he will win easy the confidence was massive and its coming again.

But your original post suggested all of the above was unique to Our Conor, are you really suggesting that Harrington, Nicholls, Henderson and Mullins haven't been aiming to peak at Cheltenham aswell.

As for last years Triumph, yes he anialated them but please it was a piss poor race and to argue anything different is trolling. There are many reasons and arguments to support Our Conor's chances in the champion but what he beat in last years Triumph is certainly not one of them.

Mtoy will have his prep run for the race in a jumpers bumper this Sunday at Kempton aw.

Malarkey121 wrote: »

From what I see they deserve a little more credit, instead of just waving them off with a hand saying pah look at what he beat.

The difference is Our Conor beat them by 15 lengths in a canter, TNO or MTOY did not.
I don't base all credit to that one race but I don't discount it either.

When people see him absolutely hosing up by 15 lengths and they need to explain it somehow by discounting the opposition?

maybe just maybe he was spot on? I'm sure time will tell.

Point taken.Before OC,s last race I was thinking of laying him for the CH.I now think that would be foolish.Its a fascinating race and the most eagerly anticipated in a good few years.I,m still in the HF camp myself as I think he,s as good as ever but I still remember that flat spot he hit during last years race and think he can,t afford to hit 1 this year as there are too many credible challengers.

Malarkey121 wrote: »

The improvement each time can you not see it?
Please refer to Hardy Eustace and check its last 4 runs each time prior to winning the Champion Hurdle in 2004 and 2005 for trainers methods.
The Triumph last year can you not see it?

Dessie has said this horse wont be spot on until March.
Last year connections of the horse told everyone in the ring to just back Our Conor, he will win easy the confidence was massive and its coming again.

Hardy Eustace was a Cheltenham specialist though who peaked at that time of year. It's yet to be determined if Our Conor is.

None of them will be spot in until March as has been said above.

Malarkey121 wrote: »

The difference is Our Conor beat them by 15 lengths in a canter, TNO or MTOY did not.

MTOY has defeated both Sametegal and Melodic Rendevous comfortably, infact his defeat of Sametegal was more comprehensive than Our Conor's.

Again I feel that Our Conor is the biggest threat to the dream of The Fly cementing his place as the greatest 2m hurdler of his generation but the opposition in last years triumph is not one of the positives for his followers IMO.