Don't marry a Non-EU Spouse if you are poor or disabled

MadsL · 12-02-2014 10:08pm

Gatling wrote: »

I forgot to put a smiley in there somewhere sorry,

But surely if a person only receives €188 pw regardless if it's disability or other which is the sole income to which rent in some cases will be anything from €30 to €70+ pw which would likely increase with a another living with them ,add food and house hold bills ,
Do you then honestly think its fair there then expected to support a non national long term , even if the non national has next to no work and educational background that may be of use to them

At the moment they have no choice to even try. Is that fair? If they have a reasonable expectation or even a job offer for the non-EEA national then why not let them be happy?

MadsL · 12-02-2014 10:13pm

dj jarvis wrote: »

dont be pedantic , they dont need a visa becasue THEY ARE HOPING OVER THE FENCE - i never said they were legally entering

you were the one that made the point that they would be less likely to commit crime , well jumping the fence is a crime , so before their feet hit the ground they are breaking the law

Eh? Not all immigrants to the US are illegal.

I said US immigrants are more likely to be law abiding. I never mentioned illegals.

sorry , i just dont agree with your view point , i think the criteria is fair , and logical , same as most other western nations

It is not the same as the UK for instance when it comes to those in receipt of disability. Is that fair?

we had a lax policy 10 years ago and Ireland had the largest influx of migrants per head of population since WW2 - i think we should be more prudent about who and how we let people in, and i am saying that married to a non national

And it created a significant amount of wealth, the most wealthy state for Ireland in god knows how long (that it got pissed against the wall is hardly the immigrants fault but there you go)

If you are married to a non Irish person I wish you would stop using that ugly term (non-national) they have a passport and nationality I assume.

ballsymchugh · 12-02-2014 10:13pm

the multiquote button is amazing. you should try it out sometime!

MadsL · 12-02-2014 10:15pm

ballsymchugh wrote: »

the multiquote button is amazing. you should try it out sometime!

You could try the quote button, then we would know who you are talking to.

Gatling · 12-02-2014 10:17pm

MadsL wrote: »

At the moment they have no choice to even try. Is that fair? If they have a reasonable expectation or even a job offer for the non-EEA national then why not let them be happy?

Of course its fair , ok take a person who might be intellectually challenged and gets taken advantage of by someone looking for a way into the welfare system then what do you ,
Then we would here why was someone allowed enter the country to take advantage of a intellectually challenged man or woman,

I'm sure there will be cases where it may be allowed if a proven longterm relationship,
I'd rather wait and see before lighting the torches

Arthur Beesley · 12-02-2014 10:18pm

Thanks for the advice, OP. You just saved me from making the biggest mistake of my life. Fair play.

MadsL · 12-02-2014 10:19pm

Gatling wrote: »

Of course its fair , ok take a person who might be intellectually challenged and gets taken advantage of by someone looking for a way into the welfare system then what do you ,
Then we would here why was someone allowed enter the country to take advantage of a intellectually challenged man or woman,

I'm sure there will be cases where it may be allowed if a proven longterm relationship,
I'd rather wait and see before lighting the torches

If you are intellectually challenged such that you cannot be held responsible for your own actions then either a guardian or the courts will need to give you permission to marry in the first place. That is the safeguard, not the fact you are on the welfare system.

dj jarvis · 12-02-2014 10:22pm

MadsL wrote: »

Fair enough but your figure of 35% is highly misleading. 11.6% of the prison population is EU, and 2.3% is UK. So 13.9% of your 35% does not require a visa anyway. So 21.i% is the true figure, now since the prison population is only 3,973, you are arguing your point based on a unknown subset of 838 people who are married to an EU citizen, maybe less that 400 at a guess. I suggest that is quite a small group to base policy on.

If they lose their job, then are they more able to support themselves without the State using the resources of one person or two?

EH? You have the same rights in an EU country as you do here, including claiming benefits. there may be qualification periods but you have the same rights to benefits as a citizen of that country.

those 400 cost the state 32,000,00 a year to keep in prison , good enough reason to base a policy on.

that money could be used to help the storm victims , regardless of where the victims hail from

dj jarvis · 12-02-2014 10:23pm

MadsL wrote: »

Eh? Not all immigrants to the US are illegal. I said US immigrants are more likely to be law abiding. I never mentioned illegals.

It is not the same as the UK for instance when it comes to those in receipt of disability. Is that fair?

And it created a significant amount of wealth, the most wealthy state for Ireland in god knows how long (that it got pissed against the wall is hardly the immigrants fault but there you go)

If you are married to a non Irish person I wish you would stop using that ugly term (non-national) they have a passport and nationality I assume.

they do - but i not willing to post personal information of another to try prove a point , what term would be acceptable to you ?

Gatling · 12-02-2014 10:24pm

MadsL wrote: »

If you are intellectually challenged such that you cannot be held responsible for your own actions then either a guardian or the courts will need to give you permission to marry in the first place. That is the safeguard, not the fact you are on the welfare system.

But you still wouldn't able to support another person longterm that might not have the education or work experience to get a self supporting job and a home here ,

MadsL · 12-02-2014 10:26pm

dj jarvis wrote: »

those 400 cost the state 32,000,00 a year to keep in prison , good enough reason to base a policy on.

400*65k = 2.6m not your figure. Source

And why not revoke their status and deport them?

that money could be used to help the storm victims , regardless of where the victims hail from

We could do that whataboutery all day. If we closed down GNIB we could fund a hospital

MadsL · 12-02-2014 10:27pm

Gatling wrote: »

But you still wouldn't able to support another person longterm that might not have the education or work experience to get a self supporting job and a home here ,

And you would enter into that eyes open by signing a Affidavit of Support disallowing your spouse SW.

Uriel. · 12-02-2014 10:29pm

A very reasonable condition and one I fully support

MadsL · 12-02-2014 10:31pm

Uriel. wrote: »

A very reasonable condition and one I fully support

You support denying those who cannot work due to a disability being prevented marriage and abode in Ireland to a non-EEA spouse?

Gatling · 12-02-2014 10:33pm

MadsL wrote: »

And you would enter into that eyes open by signing a Affidavit of Support disallowing your spouse SW.

And if they separate ,

And then people be screaming discrimation/racism for refusing non nationals social welfare if the marriage then went south and been its takes years to separate and divorce here,
What then people stuck in legal limbo

Uriel. · 12-02-2014 10:34pm

MadsL wrote: »

You support denying those who cannot work due to a disability being prevented marriage to a non-EEA spouse?

I support tough conditions on the long term residence of non-EU citizens in ireland.

If that means a disabled person can't be in marriage to such a person in ireland so be it. They could perhaps seek to reside in their partner's country or a third country

dj jarvis · 12-02-2014 10:34pm

MadsL wrote: »

400*65k = 2.6m not your figure. Source

And why not revoke their status and deport them?

We could do that whataboutery all day. If we closed down GNIB we could fund a hospital

you are correct , mine should have read 3 million , 2 hundred k , not 32 mill

good question , why not ?

MadsL · 12-02-2014 10:36pm

dj jarvis wrote: »

good question , why not ?

So.... *cough*

back to my OP.

B.A._Baracus · 12-02-2014 10:37pm

Uriel. wrote: »

A very reasonable condition and one I fully support

personally my view is that it is a very unreasonable condition and one I do not support.

Stavros Murphy · 12-02-2014 10:37pm

MadsL wrote: »

The new guidelines on Permission to reside in the State on the basis of marriage to an Irish national have been published.

Applicants will be required to meet the criteria as set out in the "Policy Document on Non-EEA Family Reunification" published on 31 December 2013.

So if you were working a minimum wage and have been on the dole for the past year, you cannot live with your Non-EU spouse. Equally if you earned minimum wage for the last two years and spent a year on the dole your spouse is excluded.

These new guidelines seem to exclude the poorest members of society, and the disabled from having choice in their marriages.

How is this even constitutional?

Are you feeling me AH?

You've seen the criteria for emigrating to the US for sure. And you've probably seen the criteria for residency in Australia. Why should it be easy to get into ireland?

MadsL · 12-02-2014 10:39pm

Uriel. wrote: »

I support tough conditions on the long term residence of non-EU citizens in ireland.

If they are married to an EU-national? Why?

If that means a disabled person can't be in marriage to such a person in ireland so be it. They could perhaps seek to reside in their partner's country or a third country

Perhaps their relatives are the carers? Why should they have to leave in order to live with who they love?

Uriel. · 12-02-2014 10:41pm

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

personally my view is that it is a very unreasonable condition and one I do not support.

Cool. That's allowed

MadsL · 12-02-2014 10:41pm

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

You've seen the criteria for emigrating to the US for sure.

Yes I have. It measured her current salary, which was just as well, because she hadn't lived in the US in over a decade. Under these rules I would not be in the US.

And you've probably seen the criteria for residency in Australia.

No. Edumacate me.

Why should it be easy to get into ireland?

It isn't.

It should be reasonable however for an Irish person to marry who they wish, no?

MadsL · 12-02-2014 10:42pm

Uriel. wrote: »

Cool. That's allowed

What does this mean?

Uriel. · 12-02-2014 10:46pm

MadsL wrote: »

If they are married to an EU-national? Why?

Perhaps their relatives are the carers? Why should they have to leave in order to live with who they love?

I'd say the same about EU nationals too by the way but due to Articles 20 and 21 of the TFEU and the 2004 citizenship directive we can't be blanket about it. That's a part of being in the EU so no more to be said there from my point of view.

Because who they love is not an Irish citizen. We don't live in a borderless world and country's are within their rights to restrict citizenship and residency. Similar conditions apply elsewhere.

Uriel. · 12-02-2014 10:48pm

MadsL wrote: »

What does this mean?

That that poster has an entitlement to a view on the matter. I thought that was obvious to be honest

Uriel. · 12-02-2014 10:50pm

MadsL wrote: »

It isn't.

It should be reasonable however for an Irish person to marry who they wish, no?

Why should it be.? The only right you have is those enshrined in the constitution of those granted by the sovereign

HellboundIRL · 12-02-2014 10:53pm

How does this affect a non-EU spouse currently living in Ireland whose stamp is about to expire this year? Will these new rules apply when going to get a new stamp?

MadsL · 12-02-2014 10:55pm

Uriel. wrote: »

Why should it be.? The only right you have is those enshrined in the constitution of those granted by the sovereign

Like the article about protecting marriage quoted above?

MadsL · 12-02-2014 10:56pm

HellboundIRL wrote: »

How does this affect a non-EU spouse currently living in Ireland whose stamp is about to expire this year? Will these new rules apply when going to get a new stamp?

Are you working?

I expect they will simply renew an existing stamp. Has she applied for naturalisation?

Don't marry a Non-EU Spouse if you are poor or disabled

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