Playstation 4 Or Xbox One? (See mod warning in the first post)

kunst nugget · 05-02-2014 2:59pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Think how long it took the PS3 to reach parity with the 360 on third party releases and you are looking at the same kind of figure. Then it still got absolute disasters like Bayonetta. PS4 will be the primary platform for consoles for the generation.

Bayonetta seems to have been an issue of a third party (Sega) lazily porting instead of the original developer (Platinum Games) doing it. Sony made a patch for it in the end. It was hardly a problem with the console.

wrt40 · 05-02-2014 3:02pm

Grayditch wrote: »

I wondered this. When they begin to learn ways to utilise the XBoxes power, surely that will occur with PS4.

I might be wrong here, but I don't think there are any tricks to the PS4. It's a PC under the hood, they already know exactly how to utilize it.

Grayditch · 05-02-2014 3:04pm

I know nothing about that kind of architecture, someone else who knows might be able to know if the PS4 has any more juice in the bottom of the fridge to be found.

I'm looking forward to developers finding ways to make graphics even better, though. I mean that's alweays a surefire thing with new consoles, right? The games WILL start looking better as time goes on.

sin0city · 05-02-2014 3:05pm

Utilising something and optimising it are different things.

Also, while it took developers a while to get to grips with the PS3's cell processor it had other advantages over the XBox such as a Blu-ray drive and a controller that didn't require a battery pack, and RROD was more prevalent than YLOD.

I don't see that the One has any advantages this generation (I wouldn't count Kinect) and both systems have their own exclusives. In my opinion if you can only buy one console, it's just a bad choice. Less power and more expensive.

COYVB · 05-02-2014 3:05pm

wrt40 wrote: »

I might be wrong here, but I don't think there are any tricks to the PS4. It's a PC under the hood, they already know exactly how to utilize it.

That's not quite how it works. There are always optimisation techniques. Look at the difference between the start and end games of any generation, and you'll see the difference. Take 360 launch titles and compare them to the games out last year - they're like different generations. That'll continue to be the case.

With the PS4 architecture being so like a PCs, they'll also have an easier time of building optimisation techniques and routines, but it'll have a cap. Nobody knows what exactly the One is capable of with the eSRAM properly used. Some say it'll be a constant bottleneck, others say it'll turn it into a powerhouse - that's the unknown. Either way, it'll likely take 2-3 years before it's actually figured out properly - but even from that point, there's another 4 years of continued improvement to be had, just like the PS4

sarumite · 05-02-2014 3:11pm

wrt40 wrote: »

This and also the fact that developers have not been utilising the available ESRAM. Basically, developers so far have been lazy and we are only talking about ports.

I think blaming developers as lazy is a little bit too easy. Going back to Bayonetta, Platinum games have said they didn't fully know how to develop for the PS3. To some extent, making development easier on the PS3 was Sonys responsibility. From what I have read, this time around Sony have a better SDK than MS.

COYVB · 05-02-2014 3:13pm

sarumite wrote: »

From what I have read, this time around Sony have a better SDK than MS.

Their dev kits also don't crash every 15 minutes

gaynorvader · 05-02-2014 3:19pm

sarumite wrote: »

I think blaming developers as lazy is a little bit too easy. Going back to Bayonetta, Platinum games have said they didn't fully know how to develop for the PS3. To some extent, making development easier on the PS3 was Sonys responsibility. From what I have read, this time around Sony have a better SDK than MS.

I agree, for my 4th year project I actually built a PS3 devkit on top of Yellow Dog Linux (Sony removed Linux support shortly afterwards, obsoleting my efforts) and it was incredibly frustrating trying to get the performance out of the Cell. It's basically a dual core processor except the second core is actually 7 mini-cores.

Retr0gamer · 05-02-2014 3:39pm

RasTa wrote: »

Was the gap this big though? ie 720p on 360 v whatever the PS3 was doing?

The gap was pretty huge on PS3. Games running at near standard def resolutions with poor framerates and it was a constant struggle for the PS3 to match the 360's performance when it came to post processing and alpha textures.

Developers dropping the resolution on One games to get a more stable framerate is a lot smaller a problem. The thing about framerate is that if it's not constant you'll get an inferior play experience and run into problems like frame tearing. The One might be getting close to 60 fps 1080p but it makes more sense to drop it to 720p to have it more consistent than a juddery mess as it tries to keep up with 60 fps. With v-sync enabled once the frame rate drops past 60 it will drop to 30fps which would be very noticable if it was constantly not hitting 60fps.

kunst nugget wrote: »

Bayonetta seems to have been an issue of a third party (Sega) lazily porting instead of the original developer (Platinum Games) doing it. Sony made a patch for it in the end. It was hardly a problem with the console.

I know that. It wasn't a comment against the PS3 more a comment to expect lazy ports on the One even once things improve.

sin0city wrote: »

Also, while it took developers a while to get to grips with the PS3's cell processor it had other advantages over the XBox such as a Blu-ray drive and a controller that didn't require a battery pack, and RROD was more prevalent than YLOD.

I don't see that the One has any advantages this generation (I wouldn't count Kinect) and both systems have their own exclusives. In my opinion if you can only buy one console, it's just a bad choice. Less power and more expensive.

The thing is the PS3 might have had some advantages over the 360 but it also had massive disadvantages in other areas. It had major fillrate problems with alpha textures compared to the 360 which was far more capable due to it's eDRAM. That was a much bigger problem than having a slower GPU (the PS3 GPU and CPU outpaced the 360's). A non unifed memory set up hurt it a lot as well. Developers still managed to reach parity in their ports, although it took a very long time. It will probably be the same on the One.

It still remains to be seen in the esRAM configuration of the One is up to matching the PS4. Using a unifid bank of GDDR5 was a masterstroke by Sony.

Retr0gamer · 05-02-2014 3:40pm

sarumite wrote: »

From what I have read, this time around Sony have a better SDK than MS.

Good point. I heard an awful lot of MS's resources went into going back on their DRM plans. I'd say that put a big strain on their dev kit development.

Xenji · 05-02-2014 3:43pm

Pushtrak wrote: »

Don't think any release date for Watch Dogs has been officially set.

Quite a few stores this week updated the release date to be around the end of April, not official yet though.

sin0city · 05-02-2014 4:18pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The thing is the PS3 might have had some advantages over the 360 but it also had massive disadvantages in other areas. It had major fillrate problems with alpha textures compared to the 360 which was far more capable due to it's eDRAM. That was a much bigger problem than having a slower GPU (the PS3 GPU and CPU outpaced the 360's). A non unifed memory set up hurt it a lot as well. Developers still managed to reach parity in their ports, although it took a very long time. It will probably be the same on the One.

It still remains to be seen in the esRAM configuration of the One is up to matching the PS4. Using a unifid bank of GDDR5 was a masterstroke by Sony.

I agree, and think the XBox was arguably the better console for the majority of last generation although I think the PS3 finished much stronger with improved performance, the advent of the Instant Game Collection and games from the likes of thatgamecompany and Naughty Dog.

Anyway, my point is that while there were pros and cons to both consoles at the beginning of last generation, I don't see any pros with Microsoft's console at the moment.

wrt40 · 05-02-2014 4:19pm

sin0city wrote: »

I wouldn't count Kinect.

But if you do count Kinect, then it's an advantage. Might not be for you, but Kinect has it's market.

cloud493 · 05-02-2014 4:23pm

Xbox one has a lot of great stuff going for it

I'l buy one myself when it gets a price drop and halo 5 has a release date.

gaynorvader · 05-02-2014 4:25pm

wrt40 wrote: »

But if you do count Kinect, then it's an advantage. Might not be for you, but Kinect has it's market.

No. It doesn't. It has a potential market, but at the moment it just isn't there. Until games are created around the Kinect, it's just a gimmick and not an advantage to the console.

(Actually with the increased GPU consumption, I'd list it as a decided disadvantage!)

sarumite · 05-02-2014 4:37pm

wrt40 wrote: »

But if you do count Kinect, then it's an advantage. Might not be for you, but Kinect has it's market.

I would say at best its neutral. The market isn't there at the moment, but it does have the potential as well as being a genuine differentiater on the positive side. On the negative side it is consuming 10% of the GPU and is considered to be the reason why the Xbone costs 25% more than the PS4.

super_furry · 05-02-2014 4:49pm

Kinect is a needless millstone around the neck of the Xbox One. Remove it from the equation and you remove the 100 euro difference between the consoles and make the Xbox One a much more enticing prospect.

Cienciano · 05-02-2014 4:54pm

wrt40 wrote: »

But if you do count Kinect, then it's an advantage. Might not be for you, but Kinect has it's market.

The best thing about the Kinect is removing it and giving the xbone 10% more processing power.

Pushtrak · 05-02-2014 5:06pm

COYVB wrote: »

The problem there is that MS doesn't have anything close to the first party power Sony does

I saw this linked elsewhere.

Microsoft:

343 Industries
Good Science Studio
Microsoft Studios Core Games Publishing
Microsoft Studios Family
Microsoft StudiosKids and Lifestyle Entertainment
Microsoft Studios LEAP
Microsoft Studios Platform Next
Microsoft Studios Mobile
Microsoft Studios Sports Entertainment
Turn 10 Studios
Twisted Pixel Games
Xbox Live Productions
Lionhead Studios
Microsoft Studios Soho
Rare Ltd
BigPark Studios
Microsoft Studios Vancouver
Microsoft Studios Victoria
Microsoft Flight Development Team

Sony:

SCE Japan
Polyphony Digital
Naughty Dog
SCE Santa Monica
SCE San Diego
SCE Bend
SCE Foster City
Sucker Punch
SCE London
SCE Cambridge
SCE Liverpool
Evolution Studios
Guerilla Games
Media Molecule

Nintendo:

EAD Comprehensive Group
EAD Group 1
EAD Group 2
EAD Group 3
EAD Group 4
EAD Group 5
EAD Tokyo
Nintendo SPD
Nintendo NSD
Nintendo Software Technology
Monolith Soft
Retro Studios
Brownie Brown
Intelligent Systems
Project Sora
Nd Cube
HAL Laboratory

Xenji wrote: »

Quite a few stores this week updated the release date to be around the end of April, not official yet though.

That's just pre order bait.

cloud493 wrote: »

Xbox one has a lot of great stuff going for it I'l buy one myself when it gets a price drop and halo 5 has a release date.

I'm confused. The main game you want to play is Halo 5, but you aren't waiting for its release, but a release date. If playing Halo 5 was your main concern, then wait for its release. If you'd have other things to play, why wait?

jenjenten · 05-02-2014 5:28pm

yet more bad news for microsoft, this trend will continue imo http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/metal_gear_solid_ground_zeroes/news/metal_gear_solid_5_ground_zeroes_looks_slightly_better_on_ps4_than_xbox_one_kojima.html

jenjenten · 05-02-2014 5:31pm

gaynorvader wrote: »

No. It doesn't. It has a potential market, but at the moment it just isn't there. Until games are created around the Kinect, it's just a gimmick and not an advantage to the console.

(Actually with the increased GPU consumption, I'd list it as a decided disadvantage!)

they only adevantage of the new kinect is making it easier for the NSA to spy on us, who sodent think they had microsoft build in back doors so they can switch it on or redirect all the data to their black server sites

gaynorvader · 05-02-2014 5:36pm

jenjenten wrote: »

they only adevantage of the new kinect is making it easier for the NSA to spy on us, who sodent think they had microsoft build in back doors so they can switch it on or redirect all the data to their black server sites

Nothing a tea towel can't combat!

kunst nugget · 05-02-2014 5:46pm

jenjenten wrote: »

they only adevantage of the new kinect is making it easier for the NSA to spy on us, who sodent think they had microsoft build in back doors so they can switch it on or redirect all the data to their black server sites

I'm totally going to buy a xbox one and dress up like a weird werewolf/cinderella hybrid anytime I play it. Not that I don't do it anyway but it'll be more fun if someone is watching...

COYVB · 05-02-2014 6:45pm

Pushtrak wrote: »

I saw this linked elsewhere.

Microsoft:

343 Industries
Good Science Studio
Microsoft Studios Core Games Publishing
Microsoft Studios Family
Microsoft StudiosKids and Lifestyle Entertainment
Microsoft Studios LEAP
Microsoft Studios Platform Next
Microsoft Studios Mobile
Microsoft Studios Sports Entertainment
Turn 10 Studios
Twisted Pixel Games
Xbox Live Productions
Lionhead Studios
Microsoft Studios Soho
Rare Ltd
BigPark Studios
Microsoft Studios Vancouver
Microsoft Studios Victoria
Microsoft Flight Development Team

Sony:

SCE Japan
Polyphony Digital
Naughty Dog
SCE Santa Monica
SCE San Diego
SCE Bend
SCE Foster City
Sucker Punch
SCE London
SCE Cambridge
SCE Liverpool
Evolution Studios
Guerilla Games
Media Molecule

Nintendo:

EAD Comprehensive Group
EAD Group 1
EAD Group 2
EAD Group 3
EAD Group 4
EAD Group 5
EAD Tokyo
Nintendo SPD
Nintendo NSD
Nintendo Software Technology
Monolith Soft
Retro Studios
Brownie Brown
Intelligent Systems
Project Sora
Nd Cube
HAL Laboratory

That's just pre order bait.

I'm confused. The main game you want to play is Halo 5, but you aren't waiting for its release, but a release date. If playing Halo 5 was your main concern, then wait for its release. If you'd have other things to play, why wait?

You can list all those studios, but why not show us their output in the last 5 years instead. Most have done nothing of any value in the Xbox platform

Grayditch · 05-02-2014 6:55pm

The 360 has been pretty bare with good exclusives in the last few years. I picked up a PS3 around 2009/10 just to play their exclusives, and it eventually became my main console when my friends list grew and I just started buying multiplatforms on PS3, too. Played the Witcher 2, Halo 4 and Deadly Premonition on 360, but other than that, it's been gather dust since. PsPlus hasn't helped it's case in this house either. Even played the Wii more than it in the last few years.

Something needs to change on the games front, with MS.

Retr0gamer · 05-02-2014 6:59pm

sin0city wrote: »

Anyway, my point is that while there were pros and cons to both consoles at the beginning of last generation, I don't see any pros with Microsoft's console at the moment.

Well it was like that with the PS3 as well this long into it's lifespan. It seemed a total disaster with third party ports being heavily downgraded and the best first party game, Resistance, looking terrible, like an average upscaled PS2 game. Too early to call it at this stage.

Retr0gamer · 05-02-2014 7:06pm

Grayditch wrote: »

Something needs to change on the games front, with MS.

Microsoft seem to be repeating what they did with the XBox. When the 360 was around the corner they just completely adandoned the XBox. seems to be the same happening to the 360 although the last months have been quite barren.

I can see sony supporting the PS3 for a little while longer, they were good about that on the PS1 and 2.

CiDeRmAn · 05-02-2014 7:10pm

I expect the list of first party developers or at t least those with exclusive deals increase in terms of Nintendo, I have a feeling they are going to buy their way into having the third party development concerns go away.
And that can only benefit gamers, as we saw with the big 3 rpgs in the last years of the Wii, Xenoblade, Pandoras Tower and The Last Story.
Regarding the first party stuff for the Xbox One, it's kinda hard to compare the prevalence, or lack therein, of such exclusives for the 360 over the PS3 or vice versa. That console gen was so long the dynamic had time to change from one end to the other.
Had the last gen been more typical in length, say 5 years instead of 8, maybe the PS3 might have never grown to match the sales of the 360 and improve its online store so dramatically, but they had the time and took advantage.

I can see the Xbox One gaining credibility with whatever it shows at the E3, and at best they can become a competitor for the PS4, at worst they risk becoming increasingly irrelevant as this gen continues, perhaps even sacrificing second place to the WiiU, which will depend on the strategies employed this year by Nintendo to generate markets are again.

RasTa · 05-02-2014 7:57pm

Not 60 fps? order cancelled!

Ru Weerasuriya from Ready at Dawn Studios confirmed this in an interview with Play3.

“Currently we do not aim [for] 60 frames per second. In a first person shooter that [surely] makes sense. Also fighting games are undoubtedly predestined for 60 frames. But for us, the cinematic experience is in the foreground – presented in full HD 1080p speak. In favor of spectacular effects and the highest resolution we restrict ourselves to a liquid 30 frames per second,” he said.

The Order 1886

COYVB · 05-02-2014 8:17pm

RasTa wrote: »

Not 60 fps? order cancelled!

The Order 1886

I was seriously pumped for it at first, but it's edging ever closer to being a dull grey gears clone

Playstation 4 Or Xbox One? (See mod warning in the first post)

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