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"Irish Language part of the Republican Agenda" according to Orange Order

135

Comments

  • #62
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭COYW


    If the level of use of the Irish language is a measure of the strength of Irish republicanism then the OO has nothing to worry about. Most people (Everyone???) in the Irish republic spends 10 years plus studying the language and a heavy majority of them can't hold a 3 minute conversation at the end of it all. It should be an optional subject at LC level anyway.

    I would prefer to see children learning French, Spanish, Mandarin Chinese etc from junior infants. If parents want their children to learn Irish, they should do so as an optional subject, in a dedicated Irish language school or outside school hours. Children shouldn't have such an impractical language forced upon them in this day and age.


  • #63
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    COYW wrote: »
    If the level of use of the Irish language is a measure of the strength of Irish republicanism then the OO has nothing to worry about. Most people (Everyone???) in the Irish republic spends 10 years plus studying the language and a heavy majority of them can't hold a 3 minute conversation at the end of it all. It should be an optional subject at LC level anyway.

    I would prefer to see children learning French, Spanish, Mandarin Chinese etc from junior infants. If parents want their children to learn Irish, they should do so as an optional subject, in a dedicated Irish language school or outside school hours. Children shouldn't have such an impractical language forced upon them in this day and age.

    speaking of agendas...


  • #64
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    No one knows what language the people of pre celtic Ireland spoke.

    You mean the picts or the Basque?


  • #65
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Charles Rocher wrote: »
    Protestants have as much right to learn Irish as any other person north or south.

    "A word of warning to Protestants who go to learn Irish ... it's part of the republican agenda''

    As if learning Irish will somehow turn union/loyalist Protestants into rabid Republicans.

    This sectarian drooler just despises the idea that we might all get along some time.

    While I agree with "Protestants have as much right to learn Irish as any other person north or south" I also think that Northern Republicans have used the Irish language as part of their "Nationalist agenda weaponry" ergo to beat the Unionist community over the head with a giant green hurley!
    This deliberate tactic has alienated many Unionists towards the Irish language in such a way that Irish is now so closely associated with rampant Republicanism, that any balanced/sensible view towards the Irish language is lost on the current Unionist generation. (same applies to the Tricolour which was also hijacked & devalued by Republicans) during the troubles . . .

    Ironically many Irish people down here would wish the Irish language wasn't a mandatory core subject in our schools, while at the same time up North the Nationalist/Republican politicians are pushing ever harder for Irish to be a major part of their society, and Unionists fight to preserve their Unionist culture. One is tempted to say that never twain shall meet :(

    Taking down the Union flag, putting up the Tricolour, and pushing the Irish language to the fore is exactly what's happing in NI, and in that respect maybe the OO are correct (amongst all their loony, hateful & archaic utterings).


  • #66
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    LordSutch wrote: »
    I also think that Northern Republicans have used the Irish language as part of their "Nationalist agenda weaponry" ergo to beat the Unionist community over the head with a giant green hurley!

    Emotive language but I have no idea how a language can be used to beat people over the head.
    This deliberate tactic has alienated many Unionists towards the Irish language in such a way that Irish is now so closely associated with rampant Republicanism, that any balanced/sensible view towards the Irish language is lost on the current Unionist generation.

    Irish doesn't belong to Republicans no more than English belongs to the Tories.
    up North the Nationalist/Republican politicians are pushing ever harder for Irish to be a major part of their society, and Unionists fight to preserve their Unionist culture.

    As above Irish doesn't belong to Nats/Reps and is being forced on nobody in the north. Also if by 'Unionist Culture' you mean the Orange Order and Loyalist's parading and sectarianism, well, the last time I checked they still have a marching season it's just that they're not allowed to march wherever the hell they like any more and will never again. Some 'culture' that is
    Taking down the Union flag, putting up the Tricolour

    What a load of rubbish. The felg wasn't taken down - it's still flown, as a compromise, on the same days as it is on British City Halls.
    and pushing the Irish language to the fore is exactly what's happing in NI and in that respect maybe the OO are correct

    Is it lost on you that this guy is telling Protestants not to choose to learn Irish or are you just here to continue on your neurotic anti-Republican/Nationalist crusade?


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  • #67
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    LordSutch wrote: »
    While I agree with "Protestants have as much right to learn Irish as any other person north or south" I also think that Northern Republicans have used the Irish language as part of their "Nationalist agenda weaponry" ergo to beat the Unionist community over the head with a giant green hurley!
    This deliberate tactic has alienated many Unionists towards the Irish language in such a way that Irish is now so closely associated with rampant Republicanism, that any balanced/sensible view towards the Irish language is lost on the current Unionist generation. (same applies to the Tricolour which was also hijacked & devalued by Republicans) during the troubles . . .

    Ironically many Irish people down here would wish the Irish language wasn't a mandatory core subject in our schools, while at the same time up North the Nationalist/Republican politicians are pushing ever harder for Irish to be a major part of their society, and Unionists fight to preserve their Unionist culture. One is tempted to say that never twain shall meet :(

    Taking down the Union flag, putting up the Tricolour, and pushing the Irish language to the fore is exactly what's happing in NI, and in that respect maybe the OO are correct (amongst all their loony, hateful & archaic utterings).

    Ulster scots translation:

    Its YEEEWR fault we hate yer cultawr so it is!!!


  • #68
    keeponhurling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,267 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    By the same logic, anybody who speaks English is a unionist


  • #69
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Charles Rocher wrote: »
    Is it lost on you that this guy is telling Protestants not to choose to learn Irish or are you just here to continue on your neurotic anti-Republican/Nationalist crusade?

    I was trying to be devils advocate (post#66) & to portray what I believe Northern Unionists think on the subject. I may be off the mark?


  • #70
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    LordSutch wrote: »
    I was trying to be devils advocate (post#66) & to portray what I believe Northern Unionists think on the subject. I may be off the mark?

    They've Irish language classes now in Loyalist East Belfast. There seems to be a growing interest in learning Irish among Protestants, Unionists and Loyalists.

    How do you know what Unionists think?


  • #71
    Lapin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,183 ✭✭✭✭Lapin


    Can't really argue with what he said.

    The promotion of the Irish language has been an essential inclusion in the manifesto and ethos of every political party and organisation that claims to be republican.

    Therefore it is impossible to deny that the language is 'part of a Republican Agenda'.


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  • #72
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Charles Rocher wrote: »
    How do you know what Unionists think?

    Well I did say "I may be off the mark"? so I don't know for sure, but I watch the news + current affairs, so like most people I have a rough idea.

    Well I thought I did . . .


  • #73
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭COYW


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Ironically many Irish people down here would wish the Irish language wasn't a mandatory core subject in our schools, while at the same time up North the Nationalist/Republican politicians are pushing ever harder for Irish to be a major part of their society

    The nationalists/republicans in Northern Ireland use it along with the GAA and traditional Irish music to try and forge an identity to prove their Irishness. We have seen posters from NI on this site posting comments such as, "I am Irish because I follow the GAA, traditional Irish music etc". If they believe that makes them Irish, then they haven't the foggiest idea what it means to be Irish, as far as I am concerned.


  • #74
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    COYW wrote: »
    The nationalists/republicans in Northern Ireland use it along with the GAA and traditional Irish music to try and forge an identity to prove their Irishness.

    The above is utter bullshit and only indicative of your own neurotic anti-Republican/Nationalism. I have a very large extended family and very few of them speak Irish or play GAA but consider themselves Irish and Irish only.
    We have seen posters from NI on this site posting comments such as, "I am Irish because I follow the GAA, traditional Irish music etc". If they believe that makes them Irish, then they haven't the foggiest idea what it means to be Irish, as far as I am concerned.

    And you do? Do you have some sort of check list?

    Btw there were Loyalist bandsmen, among many diverse identities, playing at the Fleadh Cheoil in Derry last summer - are they using that event to underscore their Irishness?


  • #75
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭COYW


    Charles Rocher wrote: »
    The above is utter bullshit and only indicative of your own neurotic anti-Republican/Nationalism. I have a very large extended family and very few of them speak Irish or play GAA but consider themselves Irish and Irish only.

    I was referring to posts like this one.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86063343&postcount=107


  • #76
    A Scoundrel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭A Scoundrel


    COYW wrote: »
    The nationalists/republicans in Northern Ireland use it along with the GAA and traditional Irish music to try and forge an identity to prove their Irishness.
    Some people embrace opera, a European language, art history... or mind-bogglingly, even hockey, to project a particular identity for, and of, themselves.

    Your problem?

    I'm not their biggest fan, but I'm always struck by the NI nationalist's capacity for genuine cultural interest (as opposed to the Unionists' typical interest in pumping iron and rioting). Do we really want to criticize cultural enlargement in a province trying to emerge from violence. And if so, why?? Maybe it says more about you than about them.


  • #77
    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo


    COYW wrote: »
    The nationalists/republicans in Northern Ireland use it along with the GAA and traditional Irish music to try and forge an identity to prove their Irishness. We have seen posters from NI on this site posting comments such as, "I am Irish because I follow the GAA, traditional Irish music etc". If they believe that makes them Irish, then they haven't the foggiest idea what it means to be Irish, as far as I am concerned.

    Being born on the island of Ireland and possessing an Irish passport is all one ever needs to prove their 'Irishness'.

    Surely we've reached a point where someone's 'Irishness' isn't measured by Church attendance, pints of plain, eating potatoes and wearing your counties GAA jersey.

    My thoughts on the North are Green Nordies and Orange Nordies have far more in common with each other than they do with Dubs or Londoners, which I think is quite funny.


  • #78
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,723 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #79
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    COYW wrote: »
    The nationalists/republicans in Northern Ireland use it along with the GAA and traditional Irish music to try and forge an identity to prove their Irishness. We have seen posters from NI on this site posting comments such as, "I am Irish because I follow the GAA, traditional Irish music etc". If they believe that makes them Irish, then they haven't the foggiest idea what it means to be Irish, as far as I am concerned.

    They don't have to "forge" any identity, they always had one. Granted the loyal brethren were supposed to stamp it so I can see why it sticks in yizzer craw. Sour grapes I guess

    Or sour oranges :)


  • #80
    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    No need to be born on the island.

    I know but in the context of the North one can consider themselves Irish yet might not have an Irish passport. They might technically be born in the UK but by the very fact that they are born on the island of Ireland they have as much right to consider themselves Irish as someone from Galway.


  • #81
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    COYW wrote: »
    I was referring to posts like this one.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86063343&postcount=107

    Don't back-track. Own your words and opinions and don't try to weasel out of being called out on it. You generalised about Nationalists and Republicans which is nothing other than evidence of your own prejudices.

    Fwiw the post you've linked to is a legitimate response to the infracted trolling post it was a adressing - did that pass you by or has your anti-Rep/Nat neurosis clouded your thinking?


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  • #82
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »
    They might technically be born in the UK but by the very fact that they are born on the island of Ireland they have as much right to consider themselves Irish as someone from Galway.

    100% Correct, although conversely because they are born in the UK, they have just as much right to call themselves British as somebody from London, Glasgow, Manchester or Cardiff.


  • #83
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    LordSutch wrote: »
    conversely because they are born in the UK, they have just as much right to call themselves British as somebody from London, Glasgow, Manchester or Cardiff.

    They've the right to call themselves Klingon if it makes them happy but the fact remains that Britain is the island that consists of England, Wales and Scotland.

    It's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and NI.


  • #84
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Yes, that's right, the UK consists of Great Britain & NI. So what's your point? Klingons aside.


  • #85
    guttenberg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭guttenberg


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Yes, that's right, the UK consists of Great Britain & NI. So what's your point? Klingons aside.

    I think you've just covered his point. Northern Ireland is a separate entity from Britain, so can NI be classed as British? wouldn't "United Kingdomers" be more apt?


  • #86
    GaelMise
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 542 ✭✭✭GaelMise


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I don't have much time for the OO but he has a point about the politicisation of the Irish language by nationalists and the impact this is having on unionist speakers.


    Sorry, the days of 'every word of Irish is a bullet in the struggle for freedom' are a long time in the past.
    These days the ones doing the most to 'politicise' the language are the Unionists who are unwilling to recognise even the most basic of rights when it comes to using Irish.


  • #87
    topper75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I don't have much time for the OO but he has a point about the politicisation of the Irish language by nationalists and the impact this is having on unionist speakers.

    I accept that point but his solution is for them not to touch it. It's theirs to claim as Irish people and the connotations are put on it by those with agendas. Screw the agendas. You can wish Sláinte to Eibhlís II and its just the same. Their heritage as dwellers on the island of Ireland.


  • #88
    GaelMise
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 542 ✭✭✭GaelMise


    Bambi wrote: »
    speaking of agendas...

    Could have been issued on Orange Order headed paper.


  • #89
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    GaelMise wrote: »
    Sorry, the days of 'every word of Irish is a bullet in the struggle for freedom' are a long time in the past.
    These days the ones doing the most to 'politicise' the language are the Unionists who are unwilling to recognise even the most basic of rights when it comes to using Irish.
    Those times may be past (at least in mainstream republicamism) but the damage is already done and attitudes like his that are a direct result of this period will not disappear over night.


  • #90
    GaelMise
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 542 ✭✭✭GaelMise


    LordSutch wrote: »
    This deliberate tactic has alienated many Unionists towards the Irish language in such a way that Irish is now so closely associated with rampant Republicanism, that any balanced/sensible view towards the Irish language is lost on the current Unionist generation.

    If that were true, then how did we get to the situation that prompted an Orange Order Grand Master to warn people off learning the language? Ie the significant growth of learning Irish among Unionists over the last year to the extent that a new Irish Language centre was oppened in east Belfast?


    Ironically many Irish people down here would wish the Irish language wasn't a mandatory core subject in our schools, while at the same time up North the Nationalist/Republican politicians are pushing ever harder for Irish to be a major part of their society, and Unionists fight to preserve their Unionist culture. One is tempted to say that never twain shall meet :(

    Taking down the Union flag, putting up the Tricolour, and pushing the Irish language to the fore is exactly what's happing in NI, and in that respect maybe the OO are correct (amongst all their loony, hateful & archaic utterings)

    Well no actually, the Union Jack has not been taken down, and a tricolour has certainly not been put up.
    And no one has been forced to speak or learn Irish in the north, what has the OO worried is the growth of interest amongst grass roots protestants in the Irish Language.


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  • #91
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    topper75 wrote: »
    I accept that point but his solution is for them not to touch it. It's theirs to claim as Irish people and the connotations are put on it by those with agendas. Screw the agendas. You can wish Sláinte to Eibhlís II and its just the same. Their heritage as dwellers on the island of Ireland.
    I agree with you bit you must realise attitudes like his are formed as a direct response to nationalist politicising of the language.

    If nationalists want to make Irish more acceptable to unionists they need to start making preparations for depoliticisation on both sides of the border.


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