Pylons

joela · 22-01-2014 07:50AM

You said

Erm... pssst.
You got a little mixed up there joela, unless I've missed it, nobody mentioned birds, bats, turf, and protecting the environment...

My own reference to the environment, if it is what brought you off track, is in regards to tourism and quality of life as in, visual impact. Not ecological impact.

I'll let you get back to it, maybe there was something about birds and bats and I've missed it.

The link I posted doesn't support your disjointed thinking but points out the fact that tourism and landscape are intrinsically linked with the environment and if you aren't bothered about environmental issues such as loss of habitats and species then you truly can't claim to care about your landscape. Really what you are saying is, "I'm selfish, I want my house in the country and all the services including electricity but I don't care how I get the electricity as long as I don't have to see the reality of how it gets to me".

Pylons are not going to affect the quality of life for locals negatively but that is what you chose to believe. You are really proving yourself to be a nimby pure and simple, focused on your back yard.

I don't think anyone said tourism isn't a big deal for Ireland but most sensible people can see that tourists are not going to stop visiting Ireland because of pylons.

Mountainsandh · 22-01-2014 08:43AM

joela wrote: »

You said

The link I posted doesn't support your disjointed thinking but points out the fact that tourism and landscape are intrinsically linked with the environment and if you aren't bothered about environmental issues such as loss of habitats and species then you truly can't claim to care about your landscape. Really what you are saying is, "I'm selfish, I want my house in the country and all the services including electricity but I don't care how I get the electricity as long as I don't have to see the reality of how it gets to me".

Pylons are not going to affect the quality of life for locals negatively but that is what you chose to believe. You are really proving yourself to be a nimby pure and simple, focused on your back yard.

I don't think anyone said tourism isn't a big deal for Ireland but most sensible people can see that tourists are not going to stop visiting Ireland because of pylons.

joela with due respect you are on a complete flight of fancy. These are maky-uppy things that I am not saying, links that I am not making, and you are chosing to misinterpret my simple viewpoint.

"pylons are not going to affect the quality of life for locals negatively" ? Do you realize at all what you are saying ?

And again, may I just remind anyone that happens on this conversation, that joela knows well pylons are not coming in my backyard.

I'm going to ignore other comments on this bit of argument (me wanting to trample the countryside for electricity) (do you realize what you are saying ? do you realize that I am saying the opposite ?), because really it's so ludicrously silly that it is plain wasting of my time.

Blahblah2012 · 22-01-2014 12:23PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

OMG you can googles , you winz the internets !!!!!!

Yawn.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Like I said the max rating of my 32" is 95 watts.

Ok brains..what's the make and model of this CRT..and since your such a whizz..you go and do the monkey work and come back to me with your proof to verify this!!

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

You haven't shown that a typical 42" TV would use less power.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

one trick you can do with google is to actually verify what's on a page

And you have verified that the site I linked to is wrong?

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

- I cba sticking in a power meter in my TV because it's not at max volume or brightness)

Maybe try watching your tv with it turned off? You'll get a super power rating then and might have you engage your brain for a while?

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

- if you dispute that then you'll have to prove that everyone used to have 42" CRT"
And your link confirms that there isn't really much difference either way.

So now you quote my link..which you attempted to ridicule in your usual childish little LOL way.
So the fact it says a 50"LED TV uses the same power as a 21"CRT would confirm your statement.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Very roughly the spend of 1% of GDP on lighting has remained static even though the affordability has risen about thirty thousand times since 1700. www.sandia.gov/~jytsao/tsao_jy_2010_04_app_for_light_LEUKOS.pdfOr look at the graph on page 277

Where'd ya get this link? You floating around the dark web again locked in ur bedroom?

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

But not enough to slow the demand. We have more gadgets than before. Things like powerwashers for cars.

Wow what a revelation. You have a powerwasher? A real inspector gadget you are.

go easy on the paintwork.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

remind me again how many KW the average electric connection is ??

http://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/en/domestic-customers/new_domestic_online_connection.jsp

(You can google that for authenticity)

joela · 22-01-2014 12:41PM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

joela with due respect you are on a complete flight of fancy. These are maky-uppy things that I am not saying, links that I am not making, and you are chosing to misinterpret my simple viewpoint.

"pylons are not going to affect the quality of life for locals negatively" ? Do you realize at all what you are saying ?

And again, may I just remind anyone that happens on this conversation, that joela knows well pylons are not coming in my backyard.

I'm going to ignore other comments on this bit of argument (me wanting to trample the countryside for electricity) (do you realize what you are saying ? do you realize that I am saying the opposite ?), because really it's so ludicrously silly that it is plain wasting of my time.

Jesus where did I say you are trampling the landscape? I'm simply pointing out that your lack of joined up thinking END OF.

You are quite clearly unable to read my posts properly and have nothing to substantiate your claims of pylons affecting people's lives other than hearsay and nimbys on the media.

Off you go now and ramble about the landscape while completely missing the point.

Mountainsandh · 22-01-2014 02:22PM

You are quite clearly unable to read my posts properly and have nothing to
substantiate your claims

right back at you

Greensleeves · 22-01-2014 04:54PM

I don't think that electricity demand is increasing.

We have a national policy to achieve 20% energy savings by 2020 under the EU 20-20-20 targets and according to Engineers Ireland energy demand has declined for the last few years. In "The State of Ireland Report - 2013" they say:

"Further, there have been very significant technical advances in recent years, which will contribute to reducing electricity demand and related emissions in the future, including developments in lighting, appliances, smart meters, smart homes and distributed generation."

And apparently LED Christmas lights are making a difference...

http://www.thejournal.ie/christmas-lighting-consumption-usage-eirgrid-fantasty-lighting-1223949-Dec2013/

darkpagandeath · 22-01-2014 04:57PM

I really don't get people that say were using less electricity because of greener products. Yet scientists are telling us the Energy crisis is fast approaching. Is it that hard to understand yes greener products but people are buying way more gadgets cancelling out any greener saving. When I was growing up you were lucky if you new someone with a Walkman. Now kids have Ipads, Smartphones, Consoles and a whole host of other gadgets and I'm talking about individual kids. In most family's now they all have their own gadgets. Saying energy demand is going down is just farcical

Would just add when everyone gets back to work the demand for power will sky rocket.

darkpagandeath · 22-01-2014 05:06PM

Greensleeves wrote: »

I don't think that electricity demand is increasing.

We have a national policy to achieve 20% energy savings by 2020 under the EU 20-20-20 targets and according to Engineers Ireland energy demand has declined for the last few years. In "The State of Ireland Report - 2013" they say:

"Further, there have been very significant technical advances in recent years, which will contribute to reducing electricity demand and related emissions in the future, including developments in lighting, appliances, smart meters, smart homes and distributed generation."

And apparently LED Christmas lights are making a difference...

http://www.thejournal.ie/christmas-lighting-consumption-usage-eirgrid-fantasty-lighting-1223949-Dec2013/

The loss of 400k jobs would have nothing to do with that would it ... People are now just using the power at home and not at work as well as these companies are gone. Is it that hard to connect the dots

Construction takes a lot of power
High tech industry takes a lot of power

And so on and so forth.....

Greensleeves · 22-01-2014 05:08PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I really don't get people that say were using less electricity because of greener products. Yet scientists are telling us the Energy crisis is fast approaching. Is it that hard to understand yes greener products but people are buying way more gadgets cancelling out any greener saving. When I was growing up you were lucky if you new someone with a Walkman. Now kids have Ipads, Smartphones, Consoles and a whole host of other gadgets and I'm talking about individual kids. In most family's now they all have their own gadgets. Saying energy demand is going down is just farcical

Maybe it is a combination of more energy efficient devices (washing machines, fridges, etc) and people plugging everything out/turning things off when they don't need them. There is plenty of room to make savings; here is an idea from France...

Lights out – France to force shops and offices to go dark overnight

French light pollution law is expected to save 250,000 tonnes of C02 a year

Shops and offices throughout France will be forced to turn off their lights overnight in a bid to fight light pollution, the country's environment ministry has announced.

Under the new law, which comes into effect on 1 July, lights in shop window displays will be turned off at 1am. Interior lights in offices and other non-residential buildings will have to be switched off an hour after the last employee leaves. Local councils will be able to make exceptions for Christmas and other special occasions, and in certain tourist or cultural areas.

The move, announced on Wednesday, is expected to save 250,000 tonnes of CO2 – enough energy to power 750,000 French households for a year.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/30/lights-out-france-shops-offices

darkpagandeath · 22-01-2014 05:10PM

Greensleeves wrote: »

Maybe it is a combination of more energy efficient devices (washing machines, fridges, etc) and people plugging everything out/turning things off when they don't need them. There is plenty of room to make savings; here is an idea from France...

Lights out – France to force shops and offices to go dark overnight

French light pollution law is expected to save 250,000 tonnes of C02 a year

Shops and offices throughout France will be forced to turn off their lights overnight in a bid to fight light pollution, the country's environment ministry has announced.

Under the new law, which comes into effect on 1 July, lights in shop window displays will be turned off at 1am. Interior lights in offices and other non-residential buildings will have to be switched off an hour after the last employee leaves. Local councils will be able to make exceptions for Christmas and other special occasions, and in certain tourist or cultural areas.

The move, announced on Wednesday, is expected to save 250,000 tonnes of CO2 – enough energy to power 750,000 French households for a year.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/30/lights-out-france-shops-offices

This is a thread about pylons in Ireland....

Greensleeves · 22-01-2014 05:14PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

The loss of 400k jobs would have nothing to do with that would it ... People are now just using the power at home and not at work as well as these companies are gone. Is it that hard to connect the dots

Construction takes a lot of power
High tech industry takes a lot of power

And so on and so forth.....

I'm sure the recession has had a lot to do with it but surely it is a good thing if energy efficient gizmos work and demand can be reduced in that way. Smart meters might help too.

darkpagandeath · 22-01-2014 05:19PM

Greensleeves wrote: »

I'm sure the recession has had a lot to do with it but surely it is a good thing if energy efficient gizmos work and demand can be reduced in that way. Smart meters might help too.

I never said it wasn't. I pointed out that more devices are cancelling out any affect it had originally. If I had the money I would switch over to more efficient products but the initial outlay is prohibitive for me even with the reduced energy costs in the home.

Greensleeves · 22-01-2014 05:19PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

This is a thread about pylons in Ireland....

Indeed. And I am querying if we need the pylons at all. If the demand for electricity is stable it is hard to see why we are enlarging our grid at vast expense.

darkpagandeath · 22-01-2014 05:24PM

Greensleeves wrote: »

Indeed. And I am querying if we need the pylons at all. If the demand for electricity is stable it is hard to see why we are enlarging our grid at vast expense.

Until the workforce gets back up and running. And indecently the Government is trying to entice more high tech industry to Ireland with more power demands. So using figures from the Recession looks like the energy demand has gone down when it has not. I would be more correct to use figures from towards the end of the CT when everyone was in work. Use that as a base line of energy consumption. And then factor in future demand and need.

Greensleeves · 22-01-2014 05:38PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Until the workforce gets back up and running. And indecently the Government is trying to entice more high tech industry to Ireland with more power demands. So using figures from the Recession looks like the energy demand has gone down when it has not. I would be more correct to use figures from towards the end of the CT when everyone was in work. Use that as a base line of energy consumption. And then factor in future demand and need.

It is Engineers Ireland you need to talk to, not me. They are the ones who compile the infrastructure reports.

It is hard to see how a policy that will increase our energy costs is going to make us attractive to foreign companies. Here is an interesting article from yesterday's Independent...

Rent and energy costs too high, US Chamber president warns

SARAH STACK – 21 JANUARY 2014

HIGH rents in Dublin, rising energy bills and expensive labour costs need to be kept down to encourage US multinationals invest in Ireland, the new president of the American Chamber of Commerce Ireland has warned.

Louise Phelan, Vice President of Global Operations in Europe, the Middle East & Africa at PayPal, said renewed price pressures in the Dublin property market was an issue requiring urgent attention.

"Even before the recovery began there was a debate around the need for a greater supply of high-quality office accommodation for modern technology-driven businesses establishing here," she said.

"If this shortage is compounded by significant price rises we will be sending the wrong message to potential investors."

The US chamber represents the interests of 700 multinationals which employ more than 115,000 people nationwide.

Ms Phelan said investment in Ireland by US multinational companies remained strong, with firms making 118 investments last year, accounting for 72pc of all IDA announcements.

However, concerns were raised over Ireland being the fifth most expensive location in the eurozone for electricity for industrial use.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/rent-and-energy-costs-too-high-us-chamber-president-warns-29933501.html

darkpagandeath · 22-01-2014 06:57PM

Greensleeves wrote: »

It is Engineers Ireland you need to talk to, not me. They are the ones who compile the infrastructure reports.

It is hard to see how a policy that will increase our energy costs is going to make us attractive to foreign companies. Here is an interesting article from yesterday's Independent...

Rent and energy costs too high, US Chamber president warns

SARAH STACK – 21 JANUARY 2014

HIGH rents in Dublin, rising energy bills and expensive labour costs need to be kept down to encourage US multinationals invest in Ireland, the new president of the American Chamber of Commerce Ireland has warned.

Louise Phelan, Vice President of Global Operations in Europe, the Middle East & Africa at PayPal, said renewed price pressures in the Dublin property market was an issue requiring urgent attention.

"Even before the recovery began there was a debate around the need for a greater supply of high-quality office accommodation for modern technology-driven businesses establishing here," she said.

"If this shortage is compounded by significant price rises we will be sending the wrong message to potential investors."

The US chamber represents the interests of 700 multinationals which employ more than 115,000 people nationwide.

Ms Phelan said investment in Ireland by US multinational companies remained strong, with firms making 118 investments last year, accounting for 72pc of all IDA announcements.

However, concerns were raised over Ireland being the fifth most expensive location in the eurozone for electricity for industrial use.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/rent-and-energy-costs-too-high-us-chamber-president-warns-29933501.html

Well that's more to do with the closed market for Energy no competition so no need for them to put prices down. It actually has the opposite effect they just apply for a price hike and get it. But still does not cancel the fact out this is needed infrastructure. Regardless of price energy consumption is only going up. Would be beneficial for the government to do something about the monopoly situation with the energy suppliers.

Same with rental price they need to remove upwards only price change and let the market decide the price may go high at first but competition will benefit that area as well. The main problem here is there is barely any completion in the different sectors.

Greensleeves · 22-01-2014 08:49PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Well that's more to do with the closed market for Energy no competition so no need for them to put prices down. It actually has the opposite effect they just apply for a price hike and get it. But still does not cancel the fact out this is needed infrastructure. Regardless of price energy consumption is only going up. Would be beneficial for the government to do something about the monopoly situation with the energy suppliers.

The Irish Academy of Engineering doesn't seem to think that it is "needed infrastructure"...

"Energy demand has dropped substantially since the 2007 and demand growth is projected to remain low for the next decade mirroring the projected low growth in the Irish economy. Irish power industry is “over-invested” after more than a decade of extraordinarily high capital expenditure as planners appear to have assumed the indefinite continuation of the “bubble” economy. There is, for example, no requirement for additional generating capacity on the Irish power system for at least the next ten years.

Given the constraints on the Irish economy, the priority for short term policy is the minimisation of energy costs and energy sector capital investment. It follows on from the previous Academy reports on energy policy over the last four years, where reservations were expressed regarding Irish energy policy."

http://www.iae.ie/news/article/2011/feb/28/new-report-energy-policy-and-economic-recovery-201/

Heroditas · 22-01-2014 08:59PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Well that's more to do with the closed market for Energy no competition so no need for them to put prices down. It actually has the opposite effect they just apply for a price hike and get it. But still does not cancel the fact out this is needed infrastructure. Regardless of price energy consumption is only going up. Would be beneficial for the government to do something about the monopoly situation with the energy suppliers.

What do you mean by "closed market"? There are three, soon to be 4, main suppliers in the domestic market and plenty of suppliers in the commercial market. It's anything but closed.
Also, the suppliers are not regulated regarding their price so they don't need to "apply for a price hike", they can alter their prices whenever they want.
The only bit that is regulated is the TUoS and DUoS part of the price - the transmission and distribution costs which are managed by ESB Networks and Eirgrid.
What has the biggest effect on electricity prices is the price of natural gas which is used to generate 60% of the electricity here.
Gas goes up, prices go up. And gas has been on an upward trend for a good fe years now.

Greensleeves wrote: »

The Irish Academy of Engineering doesn't seem to think that it is "needed infrastructure"...

"Energy demand has dropped substantially since the 2007 and demand growth is projected to remain low for the next decade mirroring the projected low growth in the Irish economy. Irish power industry is “over-invested” after more than a decade of extraordinarily high capital expenditure as planners appear to have assumed the indefinite continuation of the “bubble” economy. There is, for example, no requirement for additional generating capacity on the Irish power system for at least the next ten years.

Given the constraints on the Irish economy, the priority for short term policy is the minimisation of energy costs and energy sector capital investment. It follows on from the previous Academy reports on energy policy over the last four years, where reservations were expressed regarding Irish energy policy."

http://www.iae.ie/news/article/2011/feb/28/new-report-energy-policy-and-economic-recovery-201/

The Academy is predominantly referring to power generation plants, the likes of Poolbeg, Great Island etc.
Their opinion and view is driven by two individuals who have a hard-on for natural gas power plants.
As it stands, nobody really listens to the Academy, not event the Institute of Engineers, of which the Academy is a sub-group.

Greensleeves · 22-01-2014 09:12PM

Heroditas wrote: »

The Academy is predominantly referring to power generation plants, the likes of Poolbeg, Great Island etc.
Their opinion and view is driven by two individuals who have a hard-on for natural gas power plants.
As it stands, nobody really listens to the Academy, not event the Institute of Engineers, of which the Academy is a sub-group.

Is the Institute of Engineers the same as Engineers Ireland? I read somewhere that they think existing generation capacity is sufficient to meet projected needs for the next decade as well. BTW who do people listen to?

Heroditas · 22-01-2014 09:31PM

Greensleeves wrote: »

Is the Institute of Engineers the same as Engineers Ireland? I read somewhere that they think existing generation capacity is sufficient to meet projected needs for the next decade as well. BTW who do people listen to?

Yes they are the same. The full title is the Institute of Engineers of Ireland. So some people call them Engineers Ireland, others the Institute.
In theory, yes there is enough conventional generation capacity if we're happy enough to continue burning gas and coal to generate electricity. However, work is badly needed on the transmission network in any event. It'll improve the capacity in areas where it's needed.
Regarding who do people listen to, well the papers released by the Institute are highly regarded but much of the work released by the Academy (particularly related to energy) isn't up to scratch, mainly because much of it is the personal opinion of a few individuals on their soap boxes.

Capt'n Midnight · 22-01-2014 11:35PM

Blahblah2012 wrote: »

Ok brains..what's the make and model of this CRT..and since your such a whizz..you go and do the monkey work and come back to me with your proof to verify this!!

Constantly asking for yet more and more detail while providing none is nothing more than a stalling tactic.

I've already told you the ratings.

Your suggestion that TV energy usage would go down has been debunked.

And you have verified that the site I linked to is wrong?

read my post again. It's up to you to demonstrate that people getting rid of 32" TV's that use ~ 95Watts tops would less power with an LED TV seeing as how most people would go probably go for a bigger replacement.

So the fact it says a 50"LED TV uses the same power as a 21"CRT would confirm your statement.

do I believe a random web site or What Panasonic say ?

There's no way the average 50" TV in Ireland uses less power than a 21" CRT unless the CRT is ancient , because those old valve sets were toasty , they used to use resistors as a potential divider - just burning off voltage

Where'd ya get this link? You floating around the dark web again locked in ur bedroom?

It's a peer reviewed article from Sandia National Laboratories.

The point is that you argue that people will use less light if it's cheaper

And then there's a post about laws being need to reduce the amount of light pollution from unoccupied premises.

http://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/en/domestic-customers/new_domestic_online_connection.jsp

(You can google that for authenticity)

Thank you.
You are talking about replacing 50W bulbs making a huge difference in the context of an average domestic connection of 12,000 Watts

Yes moving from Incandescent to CFL/LED will reduce electric consumption. But we've moved so far along that path that most incandescents are illegal to sell in this country. Most of the possible savings have been already been made.

Capt'n Midnight · 22-01-2014 11:42PM

Greensleeves wrote: »

Indeed. And I am querying if we need the pylons at all. If the demand for electricity is stable it is hard to see why we are enlarging our grid at vast expense.

Two things

The demand isn't stable. Even if it was there is still a growing population, never mind electric cars and stuff.

Also the supply isn't stable. It's not like the old days where all the power is produced at the power stations. These days up to 50% of the power comes from wind / interconnectors, from the edges rather than the core.

Also the ESB were forced to close down a lot of power stations because of deregulation and some of the new entrants have located their gas pant and CHP on other parts of the grid. So even if the supply was stable, the power is coming along different routes.

darkpagandeath · 23-01-2014 12:05AM

Heroditas wrote: »

What do you mean by "closed market"? There are three, soon to be 4, main suppliers in the domestic market and plenty of suppliers in the commercial market. It's anything but closed.
Also, the suppliers are not regulated regarding their price so they don't need to "apply for a price hike", they can alter their prices whenever they want.
The only bit that is regulated is the TUoS and DUoS part of the price - the transmission and distribution costs which are managed by ESB Networks and Eirgrid.
What has the biggest effect on electricity prices is the price of natural gas which is used to generate 60% of the electricity here.
Gas goes up, prices go up. And gas has been on an upward trend for a good fe years now.

How many produce their own capacity own there own infrastructure (don't they all rent and buy in)? it's not in the interests to undercut each other how many even have there own power production facilities ?

Heroditas · 23-01-2014 12:30AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

How many produce their own capacity own there own infrastructure (don't they all rent and buy in)? it's not in the interests to undercut each other how many even have there own power production facilities ?

Energia, Airtricity, Bord Gais and ESB all own generation capacity, both renewable and conventional, in the market. All generate and feed into the pool and then sell it to consumers.

Blahblah2012 · 23-01-2014 01:59AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Constantly asking for yet more and more detail while providing none is nothing more than a stalling tactic.

Stop talking shîte and answer the question????

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I've already told you the ratings.

Answer the question?

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Your suggestion that TV energy usage would go down has been debunked.

You are debunked.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

read my post again. It's up to you to demonstrate that people getting rid of 32" TV's that use ~ 95Watts tops would less power with an LED TV seeing as how most people would go probably go for a bigger replacement.

I don't speak polish or russian.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

do I believe a random web site or What Panasonic say ?

I'm not a guidance counsellor.

Zen65 · 23-01-2014 02:21AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

How many produce their own capacity own there own infrastructure (don't they all rent and buy in)? it's not in the interests to undercut each other how many even have there own power production facilities ?

Currently all of the 'big 4' have their own generation installed in Ireland. There is also the option of generation being sold in through the interconnectors from UK generation plant. Add to that the multitude of private wind generators and you see the market is very much open.

I don't know what you mean by 'infrastructure', but there is no country in the world that allows for two transmission networks, nor two distribution networks to operate within the same geography. The most liberal countries (including Ireland) do allow for generators to build their own connection lines, but once built they inevitably transfer those lines to EirGrid / ESB as they cannot provide the operational support to cover for faults on their connections.

Capt'n Midnight · 23-01-2014 02:26AM

Blahblah2012 wrote: »

Stop talking shîte and answer the question????

Answer the question?

What question are you asking me to answer ?

Greensleeves · 23-01-2014 11:06AM

From the Irish Times yesterday:

European Commission scraps renewable energy targets

New climate change package could undermine Government’s rationale for pylons

The European Commission today unveiled a new climate change package, which removes the obligation on member states to reach specific renewable energy targets by 2030.

While current EU legislation legislates for a 20 per cent binding renewable target across the EU by 2020, with specific targets for member states, the new package withdraws obligatory targets on how much energy countries should derive from renewable sources. Instead, a binding renewable target of 27 per cent has been proposed for the EU as a whole, but no specific targets for member states. The target for a reduction in CO2 emissions by 2030 has been set at 40 per cent.

The new EU package – which may still attract significant changes as it weaves its way through the EU process - could potentially undermine a key aspect of the Irish Government’s rationale for the construction of pylons and its move towards wind energy. Among the key arguments made by the government in favour of the expansion of Ireland’s wind energy resources, has been Ireland’s obligation to meet EU targets.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/european-commission-scraps-renewable-energy-targets-1.1664136

Capt'n Midnight · 23-01-2014 11:42PM

Greensleeves wrote: »

Instead, a binding renewable target of 27 per cent has been proposed for the EU as a whole, but no specific targets for member states. The target for a reduction in CO2 emissions by 2030 has been set at 40 per cent.

So the target is still 40%, it's just that countries can choose how to do it rather than be forced.

Maybe fossil fuels might not soar in price if the UK can ramp up the fracking for cheap gas but that would undermine the economics of new nuclear plant.

Regardless we get 20% of our power from wind. And that's with a grid imposed maximum of wind + interconnector at 50%. When we can get the grid able to take 75% wind or even 90% like Portugal can we will get an even larger % of power from wind.

Denmark has hit 122% wind at times and like them we can export. Yes the UK has wind too, but if you think of a typical weather front coming in from the Atlantic pass us first and them you'll understand that we can import/export power.

Mountainsandh · 24-01-2014 12:26AM

40% reduction in CO2 emissions, not proportion of energy from renewables.
More ways to reduce CO2 at source ?

When we can get the grid able to take 75% wind or even 90% like Portugal can
we will get an even larger % of power from wind.

At what societal and environmental cost ?

Welcome to Ireland !

Pylons

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