Pylons

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Broken record time.
...
How is it too much ?


Wind is here to stay. Though I'd expect solar to get interesting over the next few years. But probably mostly in the sunny south east. Wind is getting cheaper all the time, but from a grid planning perspective solar prices are in freefall such that the panels may no longer be the main cost of a project.

better quality of life for all not some. Like I keep saying 24% of energy from wind meant a lot less pollution in December and not importing all that fuel must have helped our balance of payments.

Broken record time too :P

a) It is too much when it is superfluous. When the spread of infrastructure is cumbersome and impedes on people's quality of life, and is not imperative to maintain their quality of life, then it is too much. Exports are not imperative, reaching 40% of renewables used is not imperative.

b) Quality of life does not equate money for everyone.

This is not my vision of quality of life.
My quality of life is greatly affected by the environment I live in. (please don't go on about pollution, the air we breathe in Ireland is 15 times cleaner than the air I breathed in Lyon for more than 20 years).

For the record, and since I see again people spouting hate for the one offs, the house I live in for example, is a one off that was built at the time of the land commission. A happy family were able to settle and farm the land in this goddawful one off. The little baby that was born in the room I sit in as I type is now driving the local school busses, he's close to retirement though, putting in extra time even I would guess. The house stood uninhabited for 7 years before we moved in and renovated the place. Fine strong house it was, not the old stone type though.

What a view they had when they came out their front door, in fact all around their house. That's the view Mr M and I really wanted for ourselves, the surroundings we wanted for our family, what a dream. I savour it every morning and love going back up there after work every day.

Anyway, again I see people discrediting tourism, focusing on the money to be made/saved out of this, trampling all over other people's life choices, because of money matters.

Remember, I'm not just throwing that in like that, my point of view is that were the export requirements to be substracted from the Gridlink scheme, the scale of it would more than likely be a lot more acceptable to all, and be a lot more suited to the size of this attractive little country.

I personally can't believe the poster's stance that there's nothing special about most of the country, except for a few wild areas. The mind boggles... That is the ultimate demonstration of lack of empathy imo, or maybe it isn't, and they are just being provocative.

To give you an idea of what is attractive to tourists (at the risk of inflaming joela, stop reading right now for your own good), my own grandmother (and her bus load worth of pensioner friends) (dare I say, French) was in awe at the fuschia hedges along the roads, back in 2000 or so.

"How wonderful !" all the little ladies exclaimed, as they tucked into the dinner they were having at the local restaurant, back from their drive with the hilarious young Irish guide, before heading to the local hotel they would stay in, unless they went for a quick look at the local shops before that, and purchase those lovely hand painted fuschia tiles, or maybe the Irish linen fuschia embroidered tea towels, or that gorgeous knitted leg warmer they glimpsed in the window earlier. While enjoying coffee in the lobby, they will write postcards depicting the local scenery, attempting to share the gasp inducing experience they've had so far with pensioner friends, middle aged sons and daughters, and grandchildren, who might just plan their own trip some day to see it for themselves.
(ka-ching ka-ching, just trying to speak your language).

Except that the Ka-ching will benefit a lot more people in this example than a single windfarm developper exporting energy, and requiring those additional pylons and substations.

In fact Wales is an excellent example for those protesting against the pylons and wind farms in Ireland because as a result of the massive public outcry the National Grid decided to reduce the height of some of the pylons and underground about a quarter of the cables...

"National Grid owns and manages the networks that connect people to their energy.

It says a new "T-pylon" - which is about 15m (nearly 50ft) shorter than conventional pylons - could be used along the power cable route, which will be 33 miles (53km) long.

It says it has developed a draft route to keep away from villages and will use "hills and trees as a natural backdrop to help keep any visual impact to a minimum".

About a quarter of the route would be underground.

Jeremy Lee, National Grid's Mid Wales Connection project manager, said: "We recognise the rich cultural significance of the Meifod Valley, which includes Mathrafal and Glyndwr's Way, and understand the potential impact a 400 kV steel lattice overhead line could have on the valley - something people told us was very important to them.

"We think putting this section of the connection underground is the best way to manage these effects and means this area can be largely kept to how it looks today."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-24141013

spank_inferno wrote: »

Imagine the current crop of NIMBYs were around 60 years ago for rural electrification.

Lamp oil would still be all the rage.

You are completely missing the point.
The downsides were balanced by the fact that everybody would benefit from them.

In this instance, some pylons and substations will be planted for the benefit of a very few, some pylons will be upgraded to 40 m and more, again for the benefit of a few energy exporters.

If an Eirgrid reprensentative called to tell me a pylon is needed right beside me because they can't do otherwise, and the upgrade is for the good of everyone, I wouldn't be happy, but I would negociate a safe distance and accept it.

If an Eirgrid representative called to tell me a pylon is needed right beside me because the windfarm for energy export up the mountain has to connect to the grid, I would refuse. It would be too much inconvenience to ask of me for the benefit of a private individual.

We do not know what proportion of this upgrade is needed for wind energy export.

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Broken record time too :P

a) It is too much when it is superfluous. When the spread of infrastructure is cumbersome and impedes on people's quality of life, and is not imperative to maintain their quality of life, then it is too much. Exports are not imperative, reaching 40% of renewables used is not imperative.

b) Quality of life does not equate money for everyone.

This is not my vision of quality of life.
My quality of life is greatly affected by the environment I live in. (please don't go on about pollution, the air we breathe in Ireland is 15 times cleaner than the air I breathed in Lyon for more than 20 years).

For the record, and since I see again people spouting hate for the one offs, the house I live in for example, is a one off that was built at the time of the land commission. A happy family were able to settle and farm the land in this goddawful one off. The little baby that was born in the room I sit in as I type is now driving the local school busses, he's close to retirement though, putting in extra time even I would guess. The house stood uninhabited for 7 years before we moved in and renovated the place. Fine strong house it was, not the old stone type though.

What a view they had when they came out their front door, in fact all around their house. That's the view Mr M and I really wanted for ourselves, the surroundings we wanted for our family, what a dream. I savour it every morning and love going back up there after work every day.

Anyway, again I see people discrediting tourism, focusing on the money to be made/saved out of this, trampling all over other people's life choices, because of money matters.

Remember, I'm not just throwing that in like that, my point of view is that were the export requirements to be substracted from the Gridlink scheme, the scale of it would more than likely be a lot more acceptable to all, and be a lot more suited to the size of this attractive little country.

I personally can't believe the poster's stance that there's nothing special about most of the country, except for a few wild areas. The mind boggles... That is the ultimate demonstration of lack of empathy imo, or maybe it isn't, and they are just being provocative.

To give you an idea of what is attractive to tourists (at the risk of inflaming joela, stop reading right now for your own good), my own grandmother (and her bus load worth of pensioner friends) (dare I say, French) was in awe at the fuschia hedges along the roads, back in 2000 or so.

"How wonderful !" all the little ladies exclaimed, as they tucked into the dinner they were having at the local restaurant, back from their drive with the hilarious young Irish guide, before heading to the local hotel they would stay in, unless they went for a quick look at the local shops before that, and purchase those lovely hand painted fuschia tiles, or maybe the Irish linen fuschia embroidered tea towels, or that gorgeous knitted leg warmer they glimpsed in the window earlier. While enjoying coffee in the lobby, they will write postcards depicting the local scenery, attempting to share the gasp inducing experience they've had so far with pensioner friends, middle aged sons and daughters, and grandchildren, who might just plan their own trip some day to see it for themselves.
(ka-ching ka-ching, just trying to speak your language).

Except that the Ka-ching will benefit a lot more people in this example than a single windfarm developper exporting energy, and requiring those additional pylons and substations.

Well that's a lovely story but has absolutely no relevance what so ever. Where was your indignation when the people of Finglas had a 400kV station, with a plethora of pylons, put on their doorstep?

That's right, you and your ilk didn't give a dam back in 2009 because it wasn't in your back-yard. NIMBYism at its finest.

Why should you receive special treatment that wasn't afforded to tens of thousands of residents in West Dublin?

What makes your part of the country so special?

harryr711 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/he-worried-about-them-in-his-own-area-now-reilly-says-pylons-safe-29933685.html

Pylons are grand once they're not in your own constituency.

Well it is Reilly after-all.

I loved this bit

"South Kildare Fine Gael TD Martin Heydon, whose constituency is expected to be earmarked for pylon lines, said Dr Reilly's comments add to existing public confusion. He said people's worry about health concerns had a huge potential to cause distress - which was itself a health threat."

Even though there are no links to health issues regarding EMF emmissions from overhead lines it's the thought of worrying about them that is causing a threat to health! WTF?

I find it terribly frustrating to listen to politicians & nimbys talking about the "environment" as if they have all been out there fighting for best practice in planning and insisting on the full application of environmental legislation. The reality is that these are the same politicians and people who are arguing against the greening of CAP, the cessation of turf cutting on legally protected sites, argue against fishing quotas, downsizing of trawlers, the application of cross compliance etc. etc. Oh and of course either live in or were strongly supportive of the rural sprawl, inappropriately designed one-off houses and did sweet fa about the water quality of the rivers which were the source of public supply.

Suddenly we have anti-wind campaigners, anti-pylon campaigners and politicians who "care" about the Irish landscape and environment. What a bloody joke to see the likes of Luke Flanagan and Marian Harkin supporting all the anti-campaigns while supporting illegal turf cutting. I also find it immensely insulting and irritating that people assume you are somehow in league with the government if you happen to disagree with the current spate of nimbyism towards turbines and pylons. Suddenly everyone cares about bats and birds and what is more know more than those of us who are academically and professionally qualified in the areas of environmental sciences and engineering. Sure what would we know, sure we are all following Enda blindly right?

Until the anti-campaigners on here and elsewhere stop with the hysteria and pretence of "care" for the environment I'm going to reamain cynical and call them out for being nimbys and cynical politicians making political hay. I'd also like to know how many of these people support our underfunded eNGOS like An Taisce, IWT, FIE, BirdWatch Ireland and Bat Conservation Ireland? How many of you actually give enough of a sh8t to add your voice to the real campaigns going on to protect the environment in Ireland? How many actually know what is protected and what our legislation means? With the exception of one or two I imagine it isn't a high number. Pffft be honest and stop using the environment as a bargaining tool and shield, those of us out there on the ground find it hard enough to conserve and protect it as it is and by using it as a nimby argument you only serve to undermine real environmental campaigners.

Akrasia wrote: »

We all have a vested interest in this.

Global warming is the biggest problem we face and the proposed pylons are to facilitate wind power which will reduce carbon emissions.

It would be nice if that was true but the evidence does not support that assertion.

Germany is a cautionary tale of how energy polices can harm the economy

Despite Germany’s shift to renewable solar and wind energies, and amid a recession, its carbon emissions rose by 1.8pc last year

Germanys shift to renewable energy was once Angela Merkel’s flagship policy - now it has become her biggest headache.

“For me, the most urgent problem is the design of the energy revolution,” said the German Chancellor in her first television interview after being re-elected last month. “We are under a lot of pressure. The future of jobs and the future of Germany as a business location depend on it.”

She is not wrong: Europe’s largest country and economy faces a crisis. Such is the mess over energy that the future of Germany’s much-vaunted economic competitiveness is now seriously threatened.

Ms Merkel is currently Europe’s most popular leader but there is a growing backlash against her ill-thought-out energy policies.

And, to cap it all, policies hailed as saving the world from climate change have, in fact, increased CO2 emissions.

Full story...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/10577513/Germany-is-a-cautionary-tale-of-how-energy-polices-can-harm-the-economy.html

Greensleeves wrote: »

It would be nice if that was true but the evidence does not support that assertion.

Germany is a cautionary tale of how energy polices can harm the economy

Despite Germany’s shift to renewable solar and wind energies, and amid a recession, its carbon emissions rose by 1.8pc last year

Germanys shift to renewable energy was once Angela Merkel’s flagship policy - now it has become her biggest headache.

“For me, the most urgent problem is the design of the energy revolution,” said the German Chancellor in her first television interview after being re-elected last month. “We are under a lot of pressure. The future of jobs and the future of Germany as a business location depend on it.”

She is not wrong: Europe’s largest country and economy faces a crisis. Such is the mess over energy that the future of Germany’s much-vaunted economic competitiveness is now seriously threatened.

Ms Merkel is currently Europe’s most popular leader but there is a growing backlash against her ill-thought-out energy policies.

And, to cap it all, policies hailed as saving the world from climate change have, in fact, increased CO2 emissions.

Full story...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/10577513/Germany-is-a-cautionary-tale-of-how-energy-polices-can-harm-the-economy.html

That's bunk and has been dealt with numerous times on this thread already.