Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

ted1 · 03-11-2013 2:44pm

A property bubble is what sealed he deals for the hotel,

Why struggle to make a couple if hundred k a year when you make millions in a day

Aard · 03-11-2013 8:35pm

DLR have zoned Dalkey/Killiney as O/O - a unique designation which limits the areas in question to low-density dwellings only. Ostensibly this is to presrve the visual character of the area. A cynic might suggest that it is to preserve property prices in these well-heeled suburbs.

DLR is blind if they think that mandatory low-density will do anything to keep a village economy buoyant. All of Dalkey village's eggs are in the tourism basket. Without people visiting, how is a business to stay profitable in a low-density neighbourhood? It can't be all winebars and galleries.

reprazant · 05-11-2013 2:54pm

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

The problem with this logic is that the population and indeed, business will vacate coastal towns which would inevitably result in them becoming stale.

The problem with this idea is that you seem to think that most people want to live in bland, soulless places. I think you would find that given a choice, most people would prefer to live in somewhere like Dalkey, with all its village charm, then Carrickmines .

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Sure, look at what happened to the Killiney Court and Dalkey Island Hotels. Narrow roads certainly did them huge favors:rolleyes:. Accessibility to both of them was very poor. Both were failing establishments and are now apartment blocks which only benefit their residents. This is exactly what I mean when I say potential gone to waste.

Both failed because they were awful hotels that had nothing going for them often than their location. There are many hotels around the country that are in out of the way locations with small roads that didn't fail because they are actually good hotels first and foremost.

The Dalkey/Killiney area is one of the most beautiful areas in Dublin. I find it weird that people want to destroy it by putting up more advertising, more generic high street shops in the town and building more apartment blocks around the area.

patrickbrophy18 · 11-01-2014 2:05am

reprazant wrote: »

The problem with this idea is that you seem to think that most people want to live in bland, soulless places.

While Carrickmines is one end of the spectrum (i.e. a purpose built area), other locations such as Blackrock have got a more suitable mix of old and new architecture, fantastic infrastructure and are very accessible by a multitude of transport modes.

reprazant wrote: »

I think you would find that given a choice, most people would prefer to live in somewhere like Dalkey, with all its village charm, then Carrickmines.

Don't get me wrong. I think Dalkey is a fantastic place to live.

reprazant wrote: »

Both failed because they were awful hotels that had nothing going for them often than their location. There are many hotels around the country that are in out of the way locations with small roads that didn't fail because they are actually good hotels first and foremost.

I think the "many hotels around the country" which you are referring are situated well away from their competition. Furthermore, many of them are surrounded by acres of forestry, walkways, lakes and other amenities which are all part of their grounds. While many of them are situated along country roads, the majority of the roads I have seen which surround such hotels are a good bit wider than those found in the Dalkey and Killiney area.

reprazant wrote: »

The Dalkey/Killiney area is one of the most beautiful areas in Dublin.

I amn't disputing this for a second. However, I think more strategic planning is needed albeit, in confined spaces or paths. For example, key roads such Dalkey Avenue and Barnhill Road will need to be widened at some stage in the future or made one-way. Large stretches of these particular roads see buses and other wide vehicles spilling over the center line on the straight. Many of the key rural roads that I have seen don't have this problem.

reprazant wrote: »

I find it weird that people want to destroy it by putting up more advertising, more generic high street shops in the town and building more apartment blocks around the area.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one!

Paradoxically, the modern apartment block known as Castle Mews, adjacent to McDonagh's pub in Dalkey has permanently hindered any opportunity to widen the entrance to Dalkey Avenue. This is precisely the kind of improper, non-strategic planning I am referring too. Not to mention that it is completely out of character with the surrounding area. The planners could have easily placed this in a location off the beaten track.

Bits_n_Bobs · 11-01-2014 1:11pm

reprazant wrote: »

The Dalkey/Killiney area is one of the most beautiful areas in Dublin. I find it weird that people want to destroy it by putting up more advertising, more generic high street shops in the town and building more apartment blocks around the area.

They are both situated close to the DART, which is currently an underutilised piece of public transport. Planning permission should allow as much (high density if necessary) accommodation to take advantage of this.

Planning based on some subjective visual aesthetic at the expense of people being able to take advantage of readily available public transport is daft.

ted1 · 11-01-2014 2:07pm

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

They are both situated close to the DART, which is currently an underutilised piece of public transport. Planning permission should allow as much (high density if necessary) accommodation to take advantage of this.

Planning based on some subjective visual aesthetic at the expense of people being able to take advantage of readily available public transport is daft.

There's not much land available in either Dalkey or killiney. Anything would have to be high rise, which wouldn't be in keeping with the area. It would also obscure people's view.

To make areal difference to utilisation if a public transport system which is a really stupid reason to destroy an area. You would probably need an extra 10,000 units. As only a small percentage of these would use the dart.

Up by the luas beside tulleyvale there's open land with a view a development plan to build several thousand units. That'll utilise the luas.

If they really want to help utilise the dart, reduce bus routes that conflict with it. Reduce the price. Make parking cheaper.

As regards your last statement, that's really daft. I think your self a Patrick make every town generic Brophey should really look at moving in together in a purpose built soul less development like carrick mines. There's few historical buildings. a functional characterless retail park. Public transport and a motorway

patrickbrophy18 · 11-01-2014 11:37pm

ted1 wrote: »

There's not much land available in either Dalkey or killiney. Anything would have to be high rise, which wouldn't be in keeping with the area. It would also obscure people's view.

Unfortunately, over the last 30-40 years, many of the residential developments in the Dalkey/Killiney area were constructed in a slapdash manor devoid of forward thinking. If you look at the residential areas of other nearby suburbs like Cabinteely, Glenageary and South Killiney, you will notice that many of the key roads have land reserved for road widening and QBC development. I also have reason to believe that Avondale Road was once earmarked for road widening given the amount of space between the boundaries at either side. Conversely, developments such as The Burgage, The Village Gate, Castle Mews and Termon in Dalkey where all built without considering traffic movement further south. Castlepark Court is another development that was built right on top of the road. Brilliant planning:rolleyes:! Ballinclea Heights and Wyvern in neighboring Killiney also failed in this regard. The only recent development I can think of that does tick all the boxes is the Castlepark Residents on the former Garden Center site. It is set back from the main road, it is aesthetically pleasing and yet, is medium rise and relatively high density.

ted1 wrote: »

To make areal difference to utilisation if a public transport system which is a really stupid reason to destroy an area. You would probably need an extra 10,000 units. As only a small percentage of these would use the dart.

High density populations are generally encouraged in close proximity to high frequency rail routes.

ted1 wrote: »

Up by the luas beside tulleyvale there's open land with a view a development plan to build several thousand units. That'll utilise the luas.

This sort of contradicts the logic of your statement before this.

ted1 wrote: »

If they really want to help utilise the dart, reduce bus routes that conflict with it. Reduce the price. Make parking cheaper.

I completely disagree with this statement. If done correctly, the demand for paid parking could easily be transferred to localized DART feeder buses. This way, more cars are taken off the road. Before you say it, my previous comments for road widening are aimed at making the area more accessible to buses and HGVs.

ted1 wrote: »

As regards your last statement, that's really daft. I think your self a Patrick make every town generic Brophey should really look at moving in together in a purpose built soul less development like carrick mines. There's few historical buildings. a functional characterless retail park. Public transport and a motorway

There's no need to be a smart ass!

Fratton Fred · 14-01-2014 12:12pm

Planning permission has been submitted to build shops and apartments on land at the royal marine hotel.

These will be more or less built where the gravel car park is and an extension of the block that houses easons.

The path that goes around the corner where reasons is Will be eextended along the front of the new shops and will form the entrance to the hotel. It looks like the road is being shifted and trees planted to hide the shopping centre. The royal marine basement car park will be extended with an entrance in to the apartments.

Larbre34 · 14-01-2014 1:20pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Planning permission has been submitted to build shops and apartments on land at the royal marine hotel.

These will be more or less built where the gravel car park is and an extension of the block that houses easons.

The path that goes around the corner where reasons is Will be eextended along the front of the new shops and will form the entrance to the hotel. It looks like the road is being shifted and trees planted to hide the shopping centre. The royal marine basement car park will be extended with an entrance in to the apartments.

Glad to see this is progressing now, its been on the cards as the so called Pavillion III for many years and obviously the crash postponed it. Along with work recommencing on the 'Iceland' site its good to see more people will be living in and near the town centre, hopefully younger residents with a few quid to spend locally. If the town is to grow out of the mire then young indigenous consumers will be a vital part of it.

Chinasea · 15-01-2014 9:35am

Larbre34 wrote: »

Glad to see this is progressing now, its been on the cards as the so called Pavillion III for many years and obviously the crash postponed it. Along with work recommencing on the 'Iceland' site its good to see more people will be living in and near the town centre, hopefully younger residents with a few quid to spend locally. If the town is to grow out of the mire then young indigenous consumers will be a vital part of it.

What work on the old Iceland site? Still just says 'Sale agreed'.?

ollie1 · 15-01-2014 12:17pm

The Iceland site is going to be a Lidl thats what I have heard.

uch · 15-01-2014 1:26pm

Chinasea wrote: »

What work on the old Iceland site? Still just says 'Sale agreed'.?

If you go round the back to Georges place you will see them working away, and any progress that might have been made.

Fratton Fred · 15-01-2014 3:33pm

ollie1 wrote: »

The Iceland site is going to be a Lidl thats what I have heard.

That's what I'd heard. It doesn't seem to be very big though.

MonkstownHoop · 15-01-2014 5:14pm

Another Lidl? We could do with an Aldi in this area surely, that'll be 3 Lidl's around with the 1 on Pottery Rd and the 1 in Deansgrange

dublinman1990 · 16-01-2014 12:06pm

MonkstownHoop wrote: »

Another Lidl? We could do with an Aldi in this area surely, that'll be 3 Lidl's around with the 1 on Pottery Rd and the 1 in Deansgrange

And don't forget Lidl in Stillorgan as well.

davej · 16-01-2014 4:53pm

ollie1 wrote: »

The Iceland site is going to be a Lidl thats what I have heard.

The new crane that's recently been erected on the site has a big lighted sign that says "Shannon Homes".

davej

Larbre34 · 16-01-2014 6:37pm

Yeah I think there may be a bit of confusion here, as far as I know there are two separate sites adjacent, one will include the Aldi (or whatever) the other will continue as apartments

Chinasea · 16-01-2014 8:19pm

davej wrote: »

The new crane that's recently been erected on the site has a big lighted sign that says "Shannon Homes".

davej

Is the crane not on the old site of Berlitz language school, beside the cigarette butts all over the ground pub McKenna's?

davej · 16-01-2014 9:29pm

Chinasea wrote: »

Is the crane not on the old site of Berlitz language school, beside the cigarette butts all over the ground pub McKenna's?

There are 2 cranes, one on the site you mention (between McKenna's and the Hospital).

The other crane, "Shannon Homes", has just been erected in the last week or so. It is on this site

davej

Chinasea · 17-01-2014 8:16pm

Great, a bit of progress hopefully. I would be keen that they finish off those apartments on the front there of Lower Georges Street. Saw the sale agreed sign, but no idea what the plan is. The street has been cornered off since this was a building site and a temporary:( walkway put in. But 5 years ain't temporary.

frash · 10-02-2014 10:41am

Good article on Dun Laoghaire in this weekend's Irish Times

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/a-tale-of-two-towns-1.1682163?page=1

Tabnabs · 10-02-2014 11:31am

frash wrote: »

Good article on Dun Laoghaire in this weekend's Irish Times

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/a-tale-of-two-towns-1.1682163?page=1

While it's good to see DL remain in the spotlight (can you tell what area Irish journalists live in and/or like to visit regularly?!), it's just another argument pointing out the obvious. That photo of the empty block of shops with Dunnes on the end, AFAIK, Dunnes own the entire block and have left it to degrade over time to such an extent that they can no longer accommodate new businesses as the units are not fit for purpose (is that a new development agreement I can hear being drawn up?).

The library cultural centre is massive, but when you stand back it's no bigger than its surrounding competition;

It's right to scrutinize it, the reasons for building it, the cost and who had objectivity over granting permission. But as a weekly user of the existing library, I can't wait for it to open. The old library is appalling, it's tiny, they keeps rubbish hours and the staff look utterly miserable. Tallaght has a flagship "county" library that is a huge benefit to that area, why can't DL?

DL needs investment, it needs upgrading and it needs positivity, all I hear is objections and reasons why it can't be changed. It's time to stop sniping from the galleries and time to come up with suggestions and proposals that are realistic and doable. Otherwise the fringe elements will become the loudest voice of opposition and nothing positive will emerge from a them vs us situation.

the groutch · 10-02-2014 11:37am

The beach is like Monaco and the rest of the town is like Beirut

couldn't put it better myself.

SimonMaher · 13-02-2014 4:17pm

Tabnabs wrote: »

While it's good to see DL remain in the spotlight (can you tell what area Irish journalists live in and/or like to visit regularly?!), it's just another argument pointing out the obvious. That photo of the empty block of shops with Dunnes on the end, AFAIK, Dunnes own the entire block and have left it to degrade over time to such an extent that they can no longer accommodate new businesses as the units are not fit for purpose (is that a new development agreement I can hear being drawn up?).

The library cultural centre is massive, but when you stand back it's no bigger than its surrounding competition;

It's right to scrutinize it, the reasons for building it, the cost and who had objectivity over granting permission. But as a weekly user of the existing library, I can't wait for it to open. The old library is appalling, it's tiny, they keeps rubbish hours and the staff look utterly miserable. Tallaght has a flagship "county" library that is a huge benefit to that area, why can't DL?

DL needs investment, it needs upgrading and it needs positivity, all I hear is objections and reasons why it can't be changed. It's time to stop sniping from the galleries and time to come up with suggestions and proposals that are realistic and doable. Otherwise the fringe elements will become the loudest voice of opposition and nothing positive will emerge from a them vs us situation.

Really well written post Tabnabs both about Dun Laoghaire and the value of the library.

ted1 · 13-02-2014 4:52pm

Tabnabs wrote: »

The library cultural centre is massive, but when you stand back it's no bigger than its surrounding competition;

the problem is that if you stand down by teddy or the baths area you are no longer in Dun Laoighre.

all you see is the library, no more pavilion, church, city hall etc.

i think that this will have a negative effect as it puts mental block that'll stop people from going past it. i may revist my idea when its finished but my current belief is that it should have been st back about 50m.
Nest time your down there stand at the steps by the kingston and look towards Dun Laoighre. its gone !!! all you can see is the UCD Arts block/ sorry i always get that confused with the new library.

Tabnabs · 13-02-2014 5:03pm

ted1 wrote: »

the problem is that if you stand down by teddy or the baths area you are no longer in Dun Laoighre.

all you see is the library, no more pavilion, church, city hall etc.

i think that this will have a negative effect as it puts mental block that'll stop people from going past it. i may revist my idea when its finished but my current belief is that it should have been st back about 50m.
Nest time your down there stand at the steps by the kingston and look towards Dun Laoighre. its gone !!! all you can see is the UCD Arts block/ sorry i always get that confused with the new library.

Ah here, have a look at this (massive photo).

http://homethoughtsfromabroad626.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/001a5.jpg%3Fw%3D500%26h%3D285

I believe they call it progress.

Buildings get built and block out what's behind them. The Georgian terraces are guilty of this, the churches, the town hall, the shopping centres, the office blocks, they all block out the area behind them. Tell you what, go to the front door of the Royal Marine and look out to the harbour, you will barely notice the behemoth being built a few metres away...

Over 1 million people walk the east pier every year, I doubt a single one of these is going to say; nope, not passing a building that hides a bit of the rest of the town. This is a public building, apart from the offices that the CoCo deny/talk down, it will be open to you and me to enter and use. How often can you say that about a new large development?

josip · 13-02-2014 5:30pm

Tabnabs wrote: »

Ah here, have a look at this (massive photo).

http://homethoughtsfromabroad626.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/001a5.jpg%3Fw%3D500%26h%3D285

I believe they call it progress.

Great photo.

I hope those cab drivers put their €2 in the meter.

Tabnabs · 13-02-2014 5:46pm

Coincidentally, here are the plans of the new library from the CoCo FB page.

The Central Library & Cultural Centre in Dún Laoghaire will have a gross area of 6,520m2 and will offer a range of facilities across four public floors. The floor plan, which is available to view below shows where the following facilities will be placed in the building.

1. Moran Park Level.
This is the lowest floor level accessible from the Metals and will contain a studio space with retractable seating for 100 people, Café, Public Toilets, Training Rooms and the Library Staff offices,

2. Haigh Terrace Level.
This is where the main entrance will be off Haigh Terrace and will contain a reading & public internet space, the Municipal Gallery, Book Taster selections + Magazines, DVD + CD display, Computers/Laptops, Teenager’s Library and Community Meeting Rooms.

3. Floor 1.
This floor will contain the Main Lending and Children's libraries and a study area.

4. Floor 2.
This floor will contain a Reference Library, Local History Library, Writer in Residence Room and Community Meeting Rooms.

The Development also includes 100 parking spaces.

The Development also includes 100 parking spaces.*cough*free staff parking, BIK*cough*

Bits_n_Bobs · 21-02-2014 1:50pm

If I remember an interview on Pat Kenny they had no idea what the other floors of the building were going to contain...great that they were able to come up with a nice waffle-diagram so quickly....

Heroditas · 27-02-2014 11:00pm

Tabnabs wrote: »

Ah here, have a look at this (massive photo).

http://homethoughtsfromabroad626.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/001a5.jpg%3Fw%3D500%26h%3D285

Is that picture back to front by any chance? If not, where was it taken from?
The angles look all wrong

Edit: actually it's not. I thought that church in the photo was the Catholic Church tower on Royal Marine Road. It's the tower in what's now the National Maritime Museum.

Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

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