Pylons

darkpagandeath · 11-01-2014 08:09PM

Kippure wrote: »

You don't guess when it comes to electricity period and its effects.

http://www.safespaceprotection.com/harmful-effects-electromagnetic-fields.aspx

A lobby group their opinion is going to be even handed isn't it No agenda on that page at all (Picture of man and child staring at pylon priceless)... Tell me If I linked a similar pseudo science page trying to prove the existence of the chupacabra would that be believed ?

http://www.safespaceprotection.com/cmsimages/emf-risks.jpg

Blahblah2012 · 11-01-2014 08:10PM

micosoft wrote: »

Blah blah blah. Not everything in this life is down to what somebody "wants".

Well said. This is what you and your cohorts want...and as is perfectly clear by your attitude..fûck anyone that gets in your way

"micosoft wrote: »

As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, there are lots of things, Roads, Sewerage plants, dumps, Prisons, factories, pig farms that people don't like being beside them. But being adults they have to accept that they need to be placed somewhere.

Is not beside them. You want them to accept them on their property and they don't want it.

"micosoft wrote: »

To be frank you use all of these services and are happy enough that somebody else has to put up with it, just not you.

You don't know what services I use so wise up rocket man. More of your bullshît assumptions.

"micosoft wrote: »

You don't represent these people, or in fact, the vast bulk of people in the countryside or in the country.

Who are you to say who I represent. Bollôx.

"micosoft wrote: »

Accusing people of being shills or some other agenda is all a reflection on a certain entitlement mentality and an extraordinary level of hypocrisy on your behalf.

More of your bullshît.
Right on rocket man.

Birdnuts · 11-01-2014 08:22PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

One that supply's my family and elderly relatives electricity so we can keep warm in winter also light our house in the dark. One that supply's all the convenience of modern living to our nation.

That reads like your relatives are currently hold up in a cave somewhere in the dark, eating raw meat and waiting for someone to provide a pylon somewhere. How many other families in this country are going without due to lack of pylons?? You should pass on this info to Edna Kenny who has similar concerns:rolleyes:

darkpagandeath · 11-01-2014 08:40PM

Birdnuts wrote: »

That reads like your relatives are currently hold up in a cave somewhere in the dark, eating raw meat and waiting for someone to provide a pylon somewhere. How many other families in this country are going without due to lack of pylons?? You should pass on this info to Edna Kenny who has similar concerns:rolleyes:

So lets just leave the grid alone then .. don't put in any extra capacity for future use ... You know not like we are trying to attract hi-tech industry's that need substantial power and constant un interrupted supply. Yes and we probably would be eating raw meat if some people had their way and want to apparently live in the 1800s.

micosoft · 11-01-2014 08:43PM

Blahblah2012 wrote: »

Well said. This is what you and your cohorts want...and as is perfectly clear by your attitude..fûck anyone that gets in your way

Well this could get boring. I live beside a pylon. I'm tired of people like you who think they don't have to pay any price but get all the benefits of modern life.

Blahblah2012 wrote: »

Is not beside them. You want them to accept them on their property and they don't want it.

That's why we have compulsory purchase orders. You've travelled over roads that were built on land compulsorily purchased. Again, a hypocrite.

Blahblah2012 wrote: »

You don't know what services I use so wise up rocket man. More of your bullshît assumptions.

Um, yes I do? I'm using my extraordinary detective powers to determine that you are using electricity. And telecom lines. You are a rank hypocrite. Right now you are using power that came over pylons that are on other peoples property. Do explain what other services you don't use though? Maybe not the dump because you burn your rubbish? You don't use roads? Not getting out much then? Appreciate you don't like the aul ham sandwiches though...

Blahblah2012 wrote: »

Who are you to say who I represent. Bollôx.
More of your bullshît.
Right on rocket man.

I can see you are a deep thinker.

Birdnuts · 11-01-2014 08:51PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

So lets just leave the grid alone then .. don't put in any extra capacity for future use ... You know not like we are trying to attract hi-tech industry's that need substantial power and constant un interrupted supply. Yes and we probably would be eating raw meat if some people had their way and want to apparently live in the 1800s.

The grid is being expanded to accommodate wind power developers - its nothing to do with future energy use. If it was they could simply add capacity to the existing grid system. Take the Grid West project - a massive high power grid system built into the heart of North Mayo which has the lowest population density in the country. Crazy White elephant stuff that is the equivalent of building motorways to nowhere, ghost estates etc.

darkpagandeath · 11-01-2014 08:56PM

Birdnuts wrote: »

The grid is being expanded to accommodate wind power developers - its nothing to do with future energy use. If it was they could simply add capacity to the existing grid system. Take the Grid West project - a massive high power grid system built into the heart of North Mayo which has the lowest population density in the country. Crazy White elephant stuff that is the equivalent of building motorways to nowhere, ghost estates etc.

I'm confused renewable energy does not add capacity now ?

Blahblah2012 · 11-01-2014 08:56PM

micosoft wrote: »

Well this could get boring. I live beside a pylon. I'm tired of people like you who think they don't have to pay any price but get all the benefits of modern life.

You are boring yes..aren't you great for living beside a pylon. I dealt with this issue before. Enda will thank you for your martyrdom with a big pylon in your honour in Leinster house

micosoft wrote: »

That's why we have compulsory purchase orders. You've travelled over roads that were built on land compulsorily purchased. Again, a hypocrite.

We have alternatives to pylons. We didn't have alternatives to roads(although you do rocket man)

micosoft wrote: »

Um, yes I do? I'm using my extraordinary detective powers to determine that you are using electricity. And telecom lines. You are a rank hypocrite. Right now you are using power that came over pylons that are on other peoples property. Do explain what other services you don't use though? Maybe not the dump because you burn your rubbish? You don't use roads? Not getting out much then? Appreciate you don't like the aul ham sandwiches though...

Yes I am using electric power...and I'd prefer if it didn't come my way via overhead lines hence the fact I'm arguing against introducing more of them in this country.
No...I'm not using phone lines.
You don't need roads to get out..you know yourself rocket man!!

micosoft wrote: »

I can see you are a deep thinker.

You can't see beyond the end of your own nose..Feckin pylons have ya fooked!!

Mountainsandh · 11-01-2014 09:07PM

Birdnuts wrote: »

The grid is being expanded to accommodate wind power developers - its nothing to do with future energy use. If it was they could simply add capacity to the existing grid system. Take the Grid West project - a massive high power grid system built into the heart of North Mayo which has the lowest population density in the country. Crazy White elephant stuff that is the equivalent of building motorways to nowhere, ghost estates etc.

Exactly.

There has still not been released any amended estimate of what it would take to upgrade the grid simply for Irish use.

A downscaled project would be more palatable, and more than likely would allow for the cost of partial undergrounding, in the more sensitive areas.

The people are not over-reacting, the project is simply over-scaled for the size of this country.

Mountainsandh · 11-01-2014 09:09PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I'm confused renewable energy does not add capacity now ?

Not when it goes straight out to the UK or France.

Birdnuts · 11-01-2014 09:09PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I'm confused renewable energy does not add capacity now ?

Wind power is a diffuse, intermittent, expensive and unreliable energy source that requires vast energy sprawl in the form of large numbers of extra pylons and turbines covering the countryside. Unfortunately this leads to more expensive energy bills and in many cases little or no emmisions savings as is the case in Germany

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/researchers-alarmed-at-rise-in-german-brown-coal-power-output-a-942216.html

Jimoslimos · 11-01-2014 09:10PM

Blahblah2012 wrote: »

We have alternatives to pylons. We didn't have alternatives to roads(although you do rocket man)

Well we could build tunnels and put all the roads underground.....

Birdnuts · 11-01-2014 09:14PM

A telling quote from my earlier link

"Graichen said it was a paradox of Germany's "Energiewende," the energy revolution aimed at weaning the country off fossil fuel by 2050, that CO2 emissions were now rising despite the rapid expansion of solar and wind power. In 2014, the surcharge on electricity bills will provide some €23.5 billion of subsidies for renewable energies. A four-person household will pay a surcharge of almost €220 this year"

Blahblah2012 · 11-01-2014 09:16PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Well we could build tunnels and put all the roads underground.....

Of course we could

darkpagandeath · 11-01-2014 09:16PM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Not when it goes straight out to the UK or France.

Lets all keep our energy production all to our selves then gas, oil and soon on lets see how that works out.

micosoft · 11-01-2014 09:20PM

Blahblah2012 wrote: »

You are boring yes..aren't you great for living beside a pylon. I dealt with this issue before. Enda will thank you for your martyrdom with a big pylon in your honour in Leinster house

Have you dealt with the issue though? Because it looks like you are avoiding it with petty insults.

Blahblah2012 wrote: »

We have alternatives to pylons. We didn't have alternatives to roads(although you do rocket man)

We do. We could have undergrounded all of our motorways. It's called a tunnel! Why aren't you protesting to have our motorways undergrounded?

Blahblah2012 wrote: »

Yes I am using electric power...and I'd prefer if it didn't come my way via overhead lines hence the fact I'm arguing against introducing more of them in this country.
No...I'm not using phone lines.
You don't need roads to get out..you know yourself rocket man!!

Wow, lot's of crazy here. How pray tell would you prefer your power delivered? In cardboard boxes? Would you not be afraid it'd go off before you could use it?
So you use wireless internet so obviously you support the Mobile Phone masts then! The hypocrisy is staggering.

rovoagho · 11-01-2014 09:23PM

micosoft wrote: »

There was a great design competition recently with ESB being one of the applicants. Some look great. I'd have no problem with paying a reasonable uplife (1.2 times the cost) to have more attractive network.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-09/15/pylons

There's been others too, more recently, including some with metal men that were fab. Like this, only better:

http://www.designboom.com/art/doma-turns-electricity-pylon-into-a-giant-robot-colosso/

In response to the pseudo-technical bull some have been posting, I just have to post this:

micosoft · 11-01-2014 09:24PM

Birdnuts wrote: »

A telling quote from my earlier link

"Graichen said it was a paradox of Germany's "Energiewende," the energy revolution aimed at weaning the country off fossil fuel by 2050, that CO2 emissions were now rising despite the rapid expansion of solar and wind power. In 2014, the surcharge on electricity bills will provide some €23.5 billion of subsidies for renewable energies. A four-person household will pay a surcharge of almost €220 this year"

What could that be. Hmmmmm. Maybe, just maybe because the Government issued an edict shutting down all their Nuclear plants after Fukishima. This immediately led to reactivation of more generation using fossil fuels (mainly coal and oil) on a TEMPORARY BASIS until renewables supplant them. (For the record I think they should have kept their exceptionally safe nukes running).

Disingenuous analysis is disingenuous. Were you trying to claim that the wind turbines were actually pumping out C02.

micosoft · 11-01-2014 09:26PM

rovoagho wrote: »

There's been others too, more recently, including some with metal men that were fab. Like this, only better:

QUOTE]

I saw those alright. Perhaps we should have giant Harp shaped ones for the tourists... Should be structurally possible and the Harp/string thing could work...

Blahblah2012 · 11-01-2014 09:28PM

micosoft wrote: »

Have you dealt with the issue though? Because it looks like you are avoiding it with petty insults.

Your delusion is quite clear regarding petty insults.

micosoft wrote: »

We do. We could have undergrounded all of our motorways. It's called a tunnel! Why aren't you protesting to have our motorways undergrounded?

Clutching at straws rocket man. Belongs in another thread

micosoft wrote: »

Wow, lot's of crazy here. How pray tell would you prefer your power delivered? In cardboard boxes? Would you not be afraid it'd go off before you could use it?
So you use wireless internet then so you support the Mobile Phone masts then! The hypocrisy is staggering.

I think you are well off the scale rocket man. Wired up to your pylon via a cardboard box.

Birdnuts · 11-01-2014 09:31PM

micosoft wrote: »

What could that be. Hmmmmm. Maybe, just maybe because the Government issued an edict shutting down all their Nuclear plants after Fukishima. This immediately led to reactivation of more generation using fossil fuels (mainly coal and oil) on a TEMPORARY BASIS until renewables supplant them. (For the record I think they should have kept their exceptionally safe nukes running).

Disingenuous analysis is disingenuous. Were you trying to claim that the wind turbines were actually pumping out C02.

Shutting down Nuclear was a stupid move - I'm highlighting how
wind power has failed on costs and emission targets. What makes you think having ever more wind energy on a grid that is already overloaded with wind turbines will improve that situation??

micosoft · 11-01-2014 09:42PM

Very relevant and interesting article in the Guardian today. Do we need to get to this point in this country?

Mountainsandh · 11-01-2014 09:42PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Lets all keep our energy production all to our selves then gas, oil and soon on lets see how that works out.

Let's just do what's comfortable for us as a small country.

When projects to export energy cause more discomfort to the population than benefit, then they must be deemed unworthy.

It's really simple.

The problem here is that the projects are of benefit to some people allright, simply not the general population.

It's like when your neighbour suddenly comes up with the idea of erecting a massive metal shed to be used for a commercial enterprise... say paintballing. Right next to your house, plainly visible, within yards of your garden wall.

Now anyone is entitled to try and make a few bobs, and so really, every one is expected to tolerate a level of encroaching on their own comfort for the sake of somebody else's profit.

But the scale of the encroaching is what is in question.

You could be expected to tolerate a reasonably sized shed, but if this shed was going to be larger than some regulations, well then your neighbour will probably have to amend the scale of his project or give up.

My MIL has a pylon in the field beside her house, it's very close, probably went up in the 70s, so probably less regulations then.
She's OK with that, it's one of the lattice ones, but not the huge ones either. With this new project, the pylon in her field will probably be twice or 3 times the size of what is there, the buzzing a bit more worrying I suppose too.

If the size of that pylon is required solely for the enrichment of some wind developpers exporting the energy, then it is a lot less acceptable than if it is for Irish supply only.

We are not clear on this, because Eirgrid are not saying.

Birdnuts · 11-01-2014 09:49PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Lets all keep our energy production all to our selves then gas, oil and soon on lets see how that works out.

The world is awash with gas - the US is now self sufficient in gas and vast new reserves have been recently discovered across Eastern Africa. Many oil producing countries burn off vast quantities of gas as a waste product. Replacing our peat and coal fired power stations with gas will save alot more emmissions then wind energy ever will

Birdnuts · 11-01-2014 09:55PM

micosoft wrote: »

Very relevant and interesting article in the Guardian today. Do we need to get to this point in this country?

Not sure of the relevance of that to a country with a population the size of Greater Manchester. Elements of the UK government like Germany also have hair brained plans relating to wind but recent development over there suggests the penny is slowly dropping with plans for more Nuclear and gas power stations and withdrawal of lavish price supports for wind.

pljudge321 · 11-01-2014 09:59PM

A simple question to all those asserting that the gridwests purpose is to enable renewable energy to be exported out of Ireland. Have you any evidence of this? And how are they planning on exporting this energy, the EWIC and moyle are both a paltry 500MW and are both currently net importers.

Birdnuts · 11-01-2014 10:13PM

[/U]

pljudge321 wrote: »

A simple question to all those asserting that the gridwests purpose is to enable renewable energy to be exported out of Ireland. Have you any evidence of this? And how are they planning on exporting this energy, the EWIC and moyle are both a paltry 500MW and are both currently net importers.

Large substations are part of the project too

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Corporate+Units/Press+Room/Speeches/2012/Launch+of+the+Eirgrid+Grid+West+Project.htm

A lot of baseless waffle from Rabitte but below is the important bit

"The Grid West project, along with the Grid Link project launched a couple of weeks ago in Cork, is a key electricity transmission development under EirGrid’s Grid25 strategy. In fact, I understand that Grid West is the largest Grid25 project in the West of Ireland.

In national terms, the ongoing roll out of the Grid 25 programme, together with delivery of the essential North South transmission reinforcements and the completion of the East West Interconnector, which is linking our electricity system with that of Great Britain,

"

Mountainsandh · 11-01-2014 10:14PM

pljudge321 wrote: »

A simple question to all those asserting that the gridwests purpose is to enable renewable energy to be exported out of Ireland. Have you any evidence of this? And how are they planning on exporting this energy, the EWIC and moyle are both a paltry 500MW and are both currently net importers.

Precisely. I feel like applauding this.

I had a look at the projects online, and I see clear references to other projects in the Gridlink project, but no clear explanation whatsoever as to what proportion of the project is needed for our own benefit, and what proportion is needed to accommodate renewable energies produced for export.

So the answer to your question is no, we do not have evidence of this other than references to this in the Gridlink document online, and yes, they are vague, too vague to have a clear idea of what's going on.

And a clear statement from Eirgrid explaining what would be the exact requirements for an upgrade to the Irish system for Irish use only, then maybe a comparative statement as to what the requirements may be for Irish use + export is badly needed.

I bet this would greatly improve general acceptance or rejection as the case may be, of the Gridlink project.

edit : while looking for links, I went onto the website again.
As a quick overview, there is an FAQ on Grid Link. Here are the 2 conflicting statements (imo).
All bold, underlined and colour are mine.

What is the Grid Link Project?

To ensure future electrical power needs are met in the south and east of Ireland, an estimated €500 million is being invested in a new development called The Grid Link Project. The project consists of a new high voltage power line linking Leinster and Munster.

and then just below :

Why is this project needed?

• The Grid Link Project will help secure a future electricity supply for Leinster and Munster:

• Based on EirGrid’s assessment to date, it has been identified that, if left unchecked, the existing grid in the south and east of Ireland will not be sufficient to meet our future electricity needs, thus jeopardising electricity supply to the area. Ok, we can all accept that.

• The Grid Link project will facilitate the integration of renewable energy onto the transmission system, and reduce our reliance on imported fossil fuels. But not just ?

• The Grid Link project will facilitate further electricity interconnection with the European grid, providing a more secure electricity system.If it is a two way link, that is. And if it's not just for lining some developpers' pockets.

http://www.eirgridprojects.com/projects/gridlink/faqs/

darkpagandeath · 12-01-2014 01:07AM

Birdnuts wrote: »

The world is awash with gas - the US is now self sufficient in gas and vast new reserves have been recently discovered across Eastern Africa. Many oil producing countries burn off vast quantities of gas as a waste product. Replacing our peat and coal fired power stations with gas will save alot more emmissions then wind energy ever will

Your missing the point .. If everyone else kept their oil/gas/coal we would soon run out of power. Other countries export why shouldn't we ?

Capt'n Midnight · 12-01-2014 01:15AM

Kippure wrote: »

I said I would like to see electricity from renewable power provided free to the people of Ireland. Wouldn't that be a great.:)

Soon free water to the people of Ireland will be a memory

Pylons

Comments