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Garda charged for pepper spraying teen..

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Comments

  • #212
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    Hitchroun wrote: »
    Cleared of all charges and left with a 14k bill!


    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/gardai-cleared-of-assault-but-face-14k-bill-254569.html

    They were not cleared the charges were withdrawn.
    Just like anyone whose income means the don't qualify for free legal aid they will have to pay their own costs, why should they be treated differently to anyone else?


  • #213
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    timmy4u2 wrote: »
    Don't forget that he also has the right to take a civil action against the Gardai and depending on his financial state he may hobbling along to the Law office to put in his application for free legal aid.

    Rubbish, you cannot get free legal aid for a civil case, it is only available for criminal cases.


  • #214
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »
    why should they be treated differently to anyone else?

    Because some scummer took them to court trying to make a few quid and they were exonerated?


  • #215
    timmy4u2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭timmy4u2


    Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »
    Rubbish, you cannot get free legal aid for a civil case, it is only available for criminal cases.
    You.......are.....totally..........wrong.
    I do hope that you will acknowledge that fact when you update yourself


  • #216
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Many an ordinary citizens been left with hefty legal bills thanks to vindictive/incompetent coppers.

    Such is life


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  • #217
    timmy4u2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭timmy4u2


    To save Sir Humphrey valuable time serching for the facts
    The Legal Aid Board provides legal services in relation to civil law matters to eligible persons. These legal services include legal advice and legal aid. To qualify for services you must satisfy the Board’s financial eligibility requirements. You must also satisfy the Board that your case has merit. All board services are governed by the Civil Legal Aid Act 1995 and the Civil Legal Aid Regulations.

    You can find out more information about the services most frequently sought from the Board in the information leaflets.

    The Board does not provide aid or advice in criminal matters.

    Legal advice
    Legal advice is any oral or written advices given by a solicitor or a barrister in civil matters. It can include writing letters on your behalf and acting for you in negotiations with other persons. Legal advice is provided by solicitors in the Board’s law centre network.

    If you wish to seek legal advice in relation to any matter, you should contact your local law centre.

    Legal advice is available in relation to most civil matters. If you need further information about the service available from the Board you should consult your local law centre.

    Legal aid
    Legal aid means representation by a solicitor or barrister in civil proceedings in the District, Circuit, High and Supreme Courts. Legal aid is available also for representation before the Refugee Appeals Tribunal.
    Source
    http://www.legalaidboard.ie/lab/publishing.nsf/Content/Civil_Legal_Aid


  • #218
    timmy4u2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭timmy4u2


    Bambi wrote: »
    Many an ordinary citizens been left with hefty legal bills thanks to vindictive/incompetent coppers.

    Such is life
    List one or two


  • #219
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    timmy4u2 wrote: »
    List one or two

    my mates.

    Any more stupid questions i can help you with?


  • #220
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    Unbeliveable.

    Some little scrote tries to get you in bother for doing your job, you get exonerated and end up with a 14k legal bill.

    I'm sure Mr 20 Odd Convictions will be paying his own legal bill and won't be getting free legal aid that the taxpayer will foot the bill for.

    This country is a joke. Reward the utterly ****ing useless and punish people doing their job even if they are in the right. Was the court case held in a pub as well?

    Normal people need to start pushing back against this victim-state we've created.
    +100
    Fooking disgrace. Gardai will know in future to bate the head off the little scotes with their batons rather than risk the pepper spray.


  • #221
    timmy4u2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭timmy4u2


    Bambi wrote: »
    my mates.

    Any more stupid questions i can help you with?
    Uuuuuhhhhuuuu. I will not comment on your question:)


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  • #222
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »
    They were not cleared the charges were withdrawn.
    Just like anyone whose income means the don't qualify for free legal aid they will have to pay their own costs, why should they be treated differently to anyone else?

    I think the state was covering its own arse by withdrawing the charges, but the two cops were acting as part of their employment and their employer should cover their legal costs regardless.


  • #223
    timmy4u2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭timmy4u2


    RustyNut wrote: »
    I think the state was covering its own arse by withdrawing the charges, but the two cops were acting as part of their employment and their employer should cover their legal costs regardless.
    I think there may be huge implications in the manner in which the State withdrew.
    Just my gut feeling


  • #224
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    Bambi wrote: »
    my mates.

    Any more stupid questions i can help you with?

    Anecdotal evidence. The best kind of evidence.


  • #225
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    Because some scummer took them to court trying to make a few quid and they were exonerated?
    I would hardly describe the DPP nd the GOC as scummers.


  • #226
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    timmy4u2 wrote: »
    To save Sir Humphrey valuable time serching for the facts


    Source
    http://www.legalaidboard.ie/lab/publishing.nsf/Content/Civil_Legal_Aid

    Hopefully some day you will do enough goggling to realise that Free Legal Aid is completely different to the Legal Aid Board.
    And by the way the Legal Aid Board do not offer assistance in compensation cases.
    Thanks for the heads up pm though:)


  • #227
    Paulzx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Paulzx


    Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »
    They were not cleared the charges were withdrawn.


    Whilst they were charged they were classified as "innocent".

    Withdrawn charges means they are still "innocent".

    Having no evidence to support a trial let alone a guiltyy verdict means it doesn't get any more "cleared" than that.


  • #228
    PopRocks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34 ✭PopRocks


    Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »
    They were not cleared the charges were withdrawn.
    Just like anyone whose income means the don't qualify for free legal aid they will have to pay their own costs, why should they be treated differently to anyone else?

    They charges were withdrawn because there was no case. The guards were well within their rights to defend themselves from a "violent teenager whose own mother described him as “an absolute gurrier of the highest order”." I'm sure if you were a victim of one of his 22 previous crimes you'd change your tune fairly fast.
    And of course they should get their legal cost covered. They deal with the absolute rot of society who'd sue anyone they could for a few bob if they though they'd get away with it. If this case had went ahead it would have severely affect the way the guards operated and then maybe you'd have a chance dealing with these people.

    Again, I'm not saying there aren't bad Guards but this does not a bad guard make.


  • #229
    J K
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 468 ✭✭J K


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    +100
    Gardai will know in future to bate the head off the little scotes

    Gardai will know in future to take the foot off the accelerator. Why get involved at all?


  • #230
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    PopRocks wrote: »
    They charges were withdrawn because there was no case. The guards were well within their rights to defend themselves from a "violent teenager whose own mother described him as “an absolute gurrier of the highest order”." I'm sure if you were a victim of one of his 22 previous crimes you'd change your tune fairly fast.
    And of course they should get their legal cost covered. They deal with the absolute rot of society who'd sue anyone they could for a few bob if they though they'd get away with it. If this case had went ahead it would have severely affect the way the guards operated and then maybe you'd have a chance dealing with these people.

    Again, I'm not saying there aren't bad Guards but this does not a bad guard make.

    Im saying the Guards were right or wrong, I am saying that if I was prosecuted and the case withdrawn I would have to pay my costs, why should they expect any better than the rest of us?


  • #231
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    J K wrote: »
    Gardai will know in future to take the foot off the accelerator. Why get involved at all?

    Exactly. If i was a Garda i know i'd be thinking twice about so much as looking sideways at someone now based on this case.

    I might end up basically getting fined 14k for doing my job so why bother? It's not like i'm getting paid that much anyway.

    I wonder did the young lad get fined anything for any of his 20+ previous convictions?


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  • #232
    source
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,375 ✭✭✭source


    Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »
    Im saying the Guards were right or wrong, I am saying that if I was prosecuted and the case withdrawn I would have to pay my costs, why should they expect any better than the rest of us?

    Because the Gardai are agents of the state?


  • #233
    timmy4u2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭timmy4u2


    Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »
    Hopefully some day you will do enough goggling to realise that Free Legal Aid is completely different to the Legal Aid Board.
    And by the way the Legal Aid Board do not offer assistance in compensation cases.
    Thanks for the heads up pm though:)
    I did not need to do any googling.
    Free Legal Aid is a non entity in that it does not exist.The FREE part of it is to describe.
    The act that you refer to as The free Legal Aid... is in fact the Criminal Justice Legal Aid Act of 1962.
    It is there for Those accused of Crimina lActs alongside the Ad Hoc Legal Aid Scheme for cases brought by CAB.Social Welfare Appeals and Tax issues Habaus Corpus, Bail Motions and certain judicial Reviews.
    It is administered by The Legal Aid Board
    The other is known as Civil Legal Aid and it is administered by the same board.The Civil Legal Aid Act 1995.

    Free does not come into the name of any of the schemes but the Civil Aid Scheme does take a subscription in the beginning for the first consultation to a maximum of €130.00 depending on your circumstances.
    And the Legal Aid Board does provide assistance in compensation cases.

    Summary of “designated matters”excluded under the Civil Legal Aid Act 1995 Defamation (unless as part of some counterclaims); Most disputes concerning rights and interests in or over land; Civil matters within the jurisdiction of the District Court (Small Claims Procedure) Rules 1993; Licensing; Conveyancing; Election petitions
    They are clear in what they MAY not cover
    This should be clear enough now.


  • #234
    timmy4u2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭timmy4u2


    Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »
    Im saying the Guards were right or wrong, I am saying that if I was prosecuted and the case withdrawn I would have to pay my costs, why should they expect any better than the rest of us?
    They are agents of the State, working on behalf of the state. In cases taken against Gardai the other named defendants, The Minister for Justice, The Attorney General, The Commissioner do not have to secure their own representation nor face the same consequences


  • #235
    Means Of Escape
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭Means Of Escape


    When Gardai were like Lugs Maloney and wielded a cosh

    Ah those were the days .


  • #236
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,192 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    I know nothing about the case, but I'm all for the guards adopting a more robust approach to policing.

    Is there somewhere we can make a contribution towards these costs? Ironically, potential criminals get Free legal aid, yet Guards get to pay for themselves.


  • #237
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    source wrote: »
    Because the Gardai are agents of the state?

    Absolutely.

    Anyone who is involved in legal action as a direct result of them carrying out their duties should have the full support of their employers.

    If they are found guilty of charges, then that is a different story and employers should be entitled to seek to recover their costs.

    For the dept. of justice to stand back in this case and do nothing is a disgrace.


  • #238
    timmy4u2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭timmy4u2


    Valetta wrote: »
    Absolutely.

    Anyone who is involved in legal action as a direct result of them carrying out their duties should have the full support of their employers.

    If they are found guilty of charges, then that is a different story and employers should be entitled to seek to recover their costs.

    For the dept. of justice to stand back in this case and do nothing is a disgrace.
    And that is not withstanding the fact that the State should be held vacariously liable as the Gardai were performing their duty and using official issue equipment.


  • #239
    timmy4u2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭timmy4u2


    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    When Gardai were like Lugs Maloney and wielded a cosh

    Ah those were the days .

    I presume you mean Lugs Brannigan who cleaned up the 'Animals Gang'
    Those were tough times also
    Things are not that safe nowadays for him. Pointing to his upper lip with his characteristic crooked smile, he informed me that it was dead. Two years ago a drunk stabbed it with a knife.

    Paralysed
    A short while ago he got a tremendous blow on the forehead. That explains the large brown birthmark here. In fact it is not a birthmark but a freckle. When it was hit it started spreading like a cancerous haematoma and now covers most of his forehead. Shortly after that mishap he ran into more trouble. While passing a drunk he had just pacified in Kevin Street Garda Station he got a vicious blow on the side of his face. The drunk was pacified again, but Brannigan lay stunned on the floor. He was paralysed over the whole of the left side of his face. He could not talk or move it at all. Slowly it thawed out, but left some muscular weakness. For that incident he was awarded damages in Court, which he was not paid.
    Source politico from 1969


  • #240
    Daqster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 723 ✭✭✭Daqster


    Couldn't find the thread there for a second and searching for it I came across this hilarious thread were another teen got pepper sprayed.

    Nice to see that nobody was suggesting that the little muppet in it, got mistreated.


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  • #241
    PopRocks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34 ✭PopRocks


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66509962&postcount=42

    SV seems to changed his/her tune an awful lot... how come it was ok for this guard to use pepper spray and not the guards in this case?


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