Jesus and Alien Life

Balaclava1991 · 19-12-2013 02:50PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

You don't even know if other life exists, never mind it'stheological status. If I were you I'd concentrate your Christianitycloser to home. Arn't you supposed to start with loving yourneighbour instead of worrying about if aliens are Christians or not ?

Why are you brushing aside the obvious theological implications if intelligent life on other planets exists?

As I have said already if there are planets that are identical or near enough to our world through out this galaxy and in other galaxies in the universe and when you consider the limitations of human technology, one has to wonder why God devised such a poor way of making his ONLY son Jesus known to potentially trillions and trillions of souls in need of salvation?

It is not unreasonable to imagine that intelligent life perhaps even intelligent life almost identical to our own exists somewhere in the universe.

Christianity assumes humanity is special and that human behavior is monitored by the creator of the universe and that this creator decided to save us by sending his ONLY son who was ALSO God in human form to be born, live and die ONLY ONCE and NOWHERE ELSE.

If intelligent life exists elsewhere and we have no way of contacting these intelligent beings and helping them reach heaven one must wonder just how competent God is.

gaynorvader · 19-12-2013 03:14PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

There's a possibility something like pink unicorns can exist as well.

There's no evidence. Simple as.

I think that turned out to be contamination in the end. Probablysome careless technicians boogers.

The possibility of pink unicorns existing is quite small. The possibility of the same precursors to life lining up on another planet as they did on this one are also quite small. However, the number of planets mean that it is more likely that there is life on at least one other planet somewhere in the universe. An good analogy would be if you were to roll a six-sided die, how confident would you be of rolling a six? What if you rolled that die 1,000 times? Obviously it is possible that you would not roll a six after 1,000 die rolls, but it'd be extremely unlikely. There's also no evidence that you would roll a 6, but I'd still be pretty sure that you would.

All in all, I'd say that there is, in all likelihood, life on other planets, though I obviously can't be sure.

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 03:34PM

gaynorvader wrote: »

The possibility of pink unicorns existing is quite small. The possibility of the same precursors to life lining up on another planet as they did on this one are also quite small. However, the number of planets mean that it is more likely that there is life on at least one other planet somewhere in the universe. An good analogy would be if you were to roll a six-sided die, how confident would you be of rolling a six? What if you rolled that die 1,000 times? Obviously it is possible that you would not roll a six after 1,000 die rolls, but it'd be extremely unlikely. There's also no evidence that you would roll a 6, but I'd still be pretty sure that you would.

All in all, I'd say that there is, in all likelihood, life on other planets, though I obviously can't be sure.

In something as vast as the universe there is a possibility of a lot of things.
The fact remain, there is no evidence of any alien life. That's the point. No evidence.
Bring me proper scientific evidence of alien life, until then I will be suspending belief that it exists.

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 03:39PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Why are you brushing aside the obvious theological implications if intelligent life on other planets exists?

As I have said already if there are planets that are identical or near enough to our world through out this galaxy and in other galaxies in the universe and when you consider the limitations of human technology, one has to wonder why God devised such a poor way of making his ONLY son Jesus known to potentially trillions and trillions of souls in need of salvation?

It is not unreasonable to imagine that intelligent life perhaps even intelligent life almost identical to our own exists somewhere in the universe.

Christianity assumes humanity is special and that human behavior is monitored by the creator of the universe and that this creator decided to save us by sending his ONLY son who was ALSO God in human form to be born, live and die ONLY ONCE and NOWHERE ELSE.

If intelligent life exists elsewhere and we have no way of contacting these intelligent beings and helping them reach heaven one must wonder just how competent God is.

Your own book, the bible, would claim other supposed life in the cosmos such as angels managed to find out about god and jesus without your help. You're not a missionary to other worlds.

Akrasia · 19-12-2013 03:41PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

Typical theist. No there is no evidence for alien life. Bring me this so called evidence. I mean actual confirmed scientific evidence of alien life, not potential, not speculation, actual scientific evidence of alien life.

We haven't discovered it yet.

The possibility that there is life elsewhere in the universe is a scientifically plausible one. It fits in perfectly well with our current understanding of the universe

Just because we haven't discovered any examples of life outside of planet Earth does not mean that the suggestion 'alien life probably exists' is the same as 'unicorns probably exist'

Before the first exoplanets were discovered you would have been scientifically justified in saying that even though we haven't found any yet, there are almost certainly billions of other planets outside of our solar system.

Now that we have found many exo planets, it is scientifically plausible to suggest that there are probably billions of exo-moons out there even if we haven't found any yet.

It is a scientifically plausible claim to suggest that life probably exists on other places than Earth because we know that life exists here, and we know that there are so many other possible places for life to exist that it is extremely unlikely that nowhere in the universe has ever had the same conditions that allowed life to evolve here.
It is also possible that we will never know for sure. It's possible that other life exists but we'll never discover it

Balaclava1991 · 19-12-2013 03:56PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

Your own book, the bible, would claim other supposed life in the cosmos such as angels managed to find out about god and jesus without your help. You're not a missionary to other worlds.

How would other worlds have found out about Jesus unless they knew about Planet Earth and heard about him from the human race?

Balaclava1991 · 19-12-2013 03:58PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

In something as vast as the universe there is a possibility of a lot of things.
The fact remain, there is no evidence of any alien life. That's the point. No evidence.
Bring me proper scientific evidence of alien life, until then I will be suspending belief that it exists.

Do you think it would be very strange indeed if there was only intelligent life on one planet in the entire universe?

If intelligent life is abundant then how will they ever know about Jesus and how will they be saved?

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 03:58PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

How would other worlds have found out about Jesus unless they knew about Planet Earth and heard about him from the human race?

In your book, how did the angels the other world find out about him ?

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 04:00PM

Akrasia wrote: »

We haven't discovered it yet.

The possibility that there is life elsewhere in the universe is a scientifically plausible one. It fits in perfectly well with our current understanding of the universe

Just because we haven't discovered any examples of life outside of planet Earth does not mean that the suggestion 'alien life probably exists' is the same as 'unicorns probably exist'

Before the first exoplanets were discovered you would have been scientifically justified in saying that even though we haven't found any yet, there are almost certainly billions of other planets outside of our solar system.

Now that we have found many exo planets, it is scientifically plausible to suggest that there are probably billions of exo-moons out there even if we haven't found any yet.

It is a scientifically plausible claim to suggest that life probably exists on other places than Earth because we know that life exists here, and we know that there are so many other possible places for life to exist that it is extremely unlikely that nowhere in the universe has ever had the same conditions that allowed life to evolve here.
It is also possible that we will never know for sure. It's possible that other life exists but we'll never discover it

It possible a lot of things exist, but I'll be suspending belief untill there is evidence and there is none. Have you got any ?

Balaclava1991 · 19-12-2013 04:01PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

In your book, how did the angels the other world find out about him ?

According to the Bible the angels live in heaven with God and see him all the time and travel between heaven and the earth as his messengers.

They are not aliens but heavenly beings.

When I am talking about aliens I am talking about intelligent life forms who live on other planets.

How are they supposed to find out about Jesus given the limitations of our technology and the astronomical distances between stars and galaxies?

Jesus was the ONLY Son of God and was born in 1st century Israel and NOWHERE ELSE.

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 04:05PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

According to the Bible the angels live in heaven with God and see him all the time and travel between heaven and the earth as his messengers.

They are not aliens but heavenly beings.

When I am talking about aliens I am talking about intelligent life forms who live on other planets.

How are they supposed to find out about Jesus given the limitations of our technology and the astronomical distances between stars and galaxies?

Jesus was the ONLY Son of God and was born in 1st century Israel and NOWHERE ELSE.

By its very definition anything not of planet earth is an extra terrestrial, that includes God and Angels.
Other than call it the heavens, your book does not specify anything about their world, what it is, where it is, or what its like.
So in other words other beings in the heavens found out without you.
I thought your book made it clear Jesus always existed. How did men on earth find out without men from another planet coming to tell them they were saved ? Are you saying God/Jesus cannot contact any other planet or beings ? Would this be because deep down you suspect God is man made ?

keane2097 · 19-12-2013 04:08PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

By its very definition anything not of planet earth is an extra terrestrial.
So in other words other beings in the heavens found out without you.
I thought your book made it clear Jesus always existed. How did men on earth find out without men from another planet coming to tell them they were saved ? Are you saying God/Jesus cannot contact any other planet or beings ?

I'm not sure I'm buying that you really think angels and space aliens are the same thing.

gaynorvader · 19-12-2013 04:08PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

In something as vast as the universe there is a possibility of a lot of things.
The fact remain, there is no evidence of any alien life. That's the point. No evidence.
Bring me proper scientific evidence of alien life, until then I will be suspending belief that it exists.

I feel like you missed the point of my analogy

Do you trust the weather forecasts? There's no evidence that they're going to be right. They're taking what we know (current weather patterns) and extrapolating. It's the same with extraterrestrial life; we're taking what we know (life can exist) and extrapolating.

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 04:15PM

gaynorvader wrote: »

I feel like you missed the point of my analogy

Do you trust the weather forecasts? There's no evidence that they're going to be right. They're taking what we know (current weather patterns) and extrapolating. It's the same with extraterrestrial life; we're taking what we know (life can exist) and extrapolating.

Unlike alien life weather is proven to exist. You're missing the point. There is no evidence of alien life.

In something as vast as the universe there is a possibility of a lot of things.
The fact remain, there is no evidence of any alien life. That's the point. No evidence. Bring me proper scientific evidence of alien life, until then I will be suspending belief that it exists.

Balaclava1991 · 19-12-2013 04:17PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

By its very definition anything not of planet earth is an extra terrestrial, that includes God and Angels.
So in other words other beings in the heavens found out without you.
I thought your book made it clear Jesus always existed. How did men on earth find out without men from another planet coming to tell them they were saved ? Are you saying God/Jesus cannot contact any other planet or beings ? Would this be because deep down you suspect God is man made ?

According to the Bible God is the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob and the Jews who were their descendants were the chosen people and NOBODY else. Before Jesus arrived on earth and sent his apostles and followers forth to bring the Good News to the pagans and converted them NONE of the other nations and peoples had access to salvation.
It is quite clear that since none of the other nations could be saved until they came in contact with Christianity when followers of the faith finally arrived and preached to them then no alien species in the far reaches of the galaxy could possibly know about God.
Until they are reached by Christian missionaries and baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit they cannot be saved.
Even human beings had starships that could go at warp speed it would take hundreds of millions of years to go even a fraction of the distance across the universe.
Human made electromagnetic signals have only traveled about light century into the depths of space.
I don't the first time the New Testament was broadcast but at the very maximum about 100 light years is the distance the message of Jesus has reached.
That's a pretty poor distribution system that God has created considering how critical it is that souls are saved.

gaynorvader · 19-12-2013 04:19PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

Unlike alien life weather is proven to exist. You're missing the point. There is no evidence of alien life.

In something as vast as the universe there is a possibility of a lot of things.
The fact remain, there is no evidence of any alien life. That's the point. No evidence. Bring me proper scientific evidence of alien life, until then I will be suspending belief that it exists.

I'm not missing the point, though I fear you're missing mine.

Current weather is proven to exist.
Terrestial life is proven to exist.

Future weather is not proven to exist.
Extraterrestial life is not proven to exist.

Using data to extrapolate is what science is all about (hyperbole alert).

keane2097 · 19-12-2013 04:20PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

Unlike alien life weather is proven to exist. You're missing the point. There is no evidence of alien life.

I'm not sure if this really needs saying but the comparison isn't between extant weather and alien life. The comparison is between extant life and extant weather versus predicted life and predicted weather.

gerrybbadd · 19-12-2013 04:22PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

That means there are trillions of souls out there that will not be saved because they don't know about Jesus the ONLY son of God.

Have you considered that Alien life might have their own version of Jesus and God? God is a made up HUMAN invention, created by people in order to try and explain how their surroundings came to be. Because they couldn't comprehend the sky, moon, stars etc. We now know where they came from scientifically, fact. So, to say there are trillions of unsaved souls out there in the universe because they don't know about Jesus is a bit short sighted to say the least

oldrnwisr · 19-12-2013 04:24PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

According to the Bible God is the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob and the Jews who were their descendants were the chosen people and NOBODY else. Before Jesus arrived on earth and sent his apostles and followers forth to bring the Good News to the pagans and converted them NONE of the other nations and peoples had access to salvation.
It is quite clear that since none of the other nations could be saved until they came in contact with Christianity when followers of the faith finally arrived and preached to them then no alien species in the far reaches of the galaxy could possibly know about God.
Until they are reached by Christian missionaries and baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit they cannot be saved.
Even human beings had starships that could go at warp speed it would take hundreds of millions of years to go even a fraction of the distance across the universe.
Human made electromagnetic signals have only traveled about light century into the depths of space.
I don't the first time the New Testament was broadcast but at the very maximum about 100 light years is the distance the message of Jesus has reached.
That's a pretty poor distribution system that God has created considering how critical it is that souls are saved.

You seem to have completely ignored my last point so let me try again.

Even if we were to take the Biblical account as true, the necessity of Jesus' arrival on Earth was driven by our fallen nature which we inherit from the first humans, Adam and Eve. So, therefore only the descendants of Adam and Eve would be in need of salvation through Jesus. A separate group of beings, human or otherwise, created by God would not be tarred with the same brush of original sin and would therefore not need to be saved.

As interesting as your thought experiment is, it is fatally undermined by your failure to assimilate this point.

Balaclava1991 · 19-12-2013 04:27PM

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Have you considered that Alien life might have their own version of Jesus and God? God is a made up HUMAN invention, created by people in order to try and explain how their surroundings came to be. Because they couldn't comprehend the sky, moon, stars etc. We now know where they came from scientifically, fact. So, to say there are trillions of unsaved souls out there in the universe because they don't know about Jesus is a bit short sighted to say the least

If Jesus is the ONLY son of God then he could have existed ONLY on Planet Earth in the 1st century and NOWHERE ELSE.
If you are a believing Christian you MUST believe that.
Therefore if there are potentially trillions of unsaved souls on other planets they will only hear about Jesus from Christians and NOWHERE ELSE.
God has not given Christians the means to able to fulfill the mission of saving them - preaching to them, converting them and baptizing them.
Therefore this utterly undermines the whole basis of the Christian faith.

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 04:28PM

gaynorvader wrote: »

I'm not missing the point, though I fear you're missing mine.

Current weather is proven to exist.
Terrestial life is proven to exist.

Future weather is not proven to exist.
Extraterrestial life is not proven to exist.

Using data to extrapolate is what science is all about (hyperbole alert).

Weather exists, it has nothing to do with aliens or forecasting what aliens are going to do.

Now, have you any evidence alien life exists, if you have post it up.

Until you present proper scientific evidence that aliens exist, I'll be suspending any belief in aliens if you don't mind. And there is no evidence.

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 04:32PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

According to the Bible God is the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob and the Jews who were their descendants were the chosen people and NOBODY else.

I thought he was supposed to be the god of everyone and everything ?

Your own book makes it very clear angels knew about god and jesus before man, and that he is also their god.

No missionaries required.

Or as they said in star trek "why does God need a starship" ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYW_lPlekiQ

Balaclava1991 · 19-12-2013 04:33PM

oldrnwisr wrote: »

You seem to have completely ignored my last point so let me try again.

Even if we were to take the Biblical account as true, the necessity of Jesus' arrival on Earth was driven by our fallen nature which we inherit from the first humans, Adam and Eve. So, therefore only the descendants of Adam and Eve would be in need of salvation through Jesus. A separate group of beings, human or otherwise, created by God would not be tarred with the same brush of original sin and would therefore not need to be saved.

As interesting as your thought experiment is, it is fatally undermined by your failure to assimilate this point.

So only the 7 billion human beings have to worry about hell and not the potentially trillions of other intelligent beings with souls on all the other billions of habitable planets that exist?

So why does God in his infinite power simply bail out the human race and forgive our sins without going to trouble of sending his only Son to earth to suffer and die?

The earth is just a speck compared to a universe that unimaginably vast.

Why would a God who could create such a thing send people to hell for having anal sex or lustful thoughts or robbing a bank since such a crimes do not make a dent in the vast universe?

mr lee · 19-12-2013 04:34PM

what about all the people who lived and died before jesus was born,they're all screwed as well

gerrybbadd · 19-12-2013 04:34PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

If Jesus is the ONLY son of God then he could have existed ONLY on Planet Earth in the 1st century and NOWHERE ELSE.
If you are a believing Christian you MUST believe that.
Therefore if there are potentially trillions of unsaved souls on other planets they will only hear about Jesus from Christians and NOWHERE ELSE.
God has not given Christians the means to able to fulfill the mission of saving them - preaching to them, converting them and baptizing them.
Therefore this utterly undermines the whole basis of the Christian faith.

You love the word ONLY. I'm not a believing Christian. I have no doubt there was a historical Jesus, but was he the son of god - no. The way you take the Bible as fact is worrying, especially in this day and age.

You do REALISE the Bible is also a human invention, as is Jesus' divinity? Every heard of the First Council of Nicaea? Where humans DECIDED what went into the Bible, and what would not go in? Or how they DECIDED that Jesus would no longer be a lowly Human, and instead become the son of god?

The aliens are better off not knowing about Jesus or organised religion, with the amount of wars that have been fought in the name of God. The ETs are in fact SAVED, due to ignorance of religion

Balaclava1991 · 19-12-2013 04:36PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

I thought he was supposed to be the god of everyone and everything ?
Your own book makes it very clear angels knew about god and jesus before man, and that he is also their god.

Mortals can today only learn about God through word of mouth since God for some strange reason has decided not to perform miracles like parting the Red Sea and so on in the modern industrial era.

Balaclava1991 · 19-12-2013 04:40PM

gerrybbadd wrote: »

You love the word ONLY. I'm not a believing Christian. I have no doubt there was a historical Jesus, but was he the son of god - no. The way you take the Bible as fact is worrying, especially in this day and age.

You do REALISE the Bible is also a human invention, as is Jesus' divinity? Every heard of the First Council of Nicaea? Where humans DECIDED what went into the Bible, and what would not go in? Or how they DECIDED that Jesus would no longer be a lowly Human, and instead become the son of god?

The aliens are better off not knowing about Jesus or organised religion, with the amount of wars that have been fought in the name of God. The ETs are in fact SAVED, due to ignorance of religion

The Bible is quite clear that Jesus is the ONLY Son of God and it is the duty of Christians to spread the Good News of salvation.

Yet strangely God gives Christians no ability to spread Jesus to alien civilizations if they were ever discovered.

God has not created an efficient system of spread the faith.

Similarly if Jesus had been Chinese then 2 Billion Chinese would be saved.

Instead God chose to be born in Israel in 1st century which was a provincial backwater.

The Earth is a celestial backwater and yet Jesus was born here?

Why wasn't Jesus born on a planet that already had warp drive?

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 04:41PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Mortals can today only learn about God through word of mouth since God for some strange reason has decided not to perform miracles like parting the Red Sea and so on in the modern industrial era.

Hmmm, must be because of stena line, or perhaps P&O

Sarky · 19-12-2013 04:42PM

oldrnwisr wrote: »

You seem to have completely ignored my last point so let me try again.

Even if we were to take the Biblical account as true, the necessity of Jesus' arrival on Earth was driven by our fallen nature which we inherit from the first humans, Adam and Eve. So, therefore only the descendants of Adam and Eve would be in need of salvation through Jesus. A separate group of beings, human or otherwise, created by God would not be tarred with the same brush of original sin and would therefore not need to be saved.

As interesting as your thought experiment is, it is fatally undermined by your failure to assimilate this point.

It'd be hilarious to see alien civilisation that didn't need saving show up, only to turn out to be as petty and vindictive as everyone else. the theological gymnastics required to explain it away would be breathtaking.

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 04:42PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

The Bible is quite clear that Jesus is the ONLY Son of God and it is the duty of Christians to spread the Good News of salvation.

Yet strangely God gives Christians no ability to spread Jesus to alien civilizations if they were ever discovered.

God has not created an efficient system of spread the faith.

Similarly if Jesus had been Chinese then 2 Billion Chinese would be saved.

Instead God chose to be born in Israel in 1st century which was a provincial backwater.

The Earth is a celestial backwater and yet Jesus was born here?

Why wasn't Jesus born on a planet that already had warp drive?

Pretty cheeky asumming other alien races have inherited origional sin from adam and eve.

Why does God need a starship ?

Jesus and Alien Life

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