Jesus and Alien Life

Balaclava1991 · 19-12-2013 01:03PM #1

In the Bible we are told that Jesus is the ONLY son of God and his birth, life, death and resurrection are the fulcrum around which the rest of human history, time, space and the universe revolve.
So Jesus could only have been born in Roman governed Israel in the 1st century and NOWHERE ELSE.

Now consider that there are hundreds of billions of stars in our Milky Way Galaxy and our galaxy is probably only one of hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe.

It is therefore possible that in at least one other corner of the universe a yellow dwarf star exists on the edge of a spiral galaxy orbited by a distance about 90 million miles by a rocky planet with its own moon, rotating on an axis like our own Earth with tectonic plates, with an ocean and atmosphere, with an abundance of life and populated by intelligent beings like use who have an advanced civilization and advanced technology.

If there were only one planet like our Earth in each of the hundreds of billions of galaxies and if each of those planets had a population of over 7 billion that could mean there are trillions upon trillions of beings like us in the universe.

So if Jesus is the ONLY Son of God and the spread of his message depends wholly on human beings who have only harnessed electromagnetic radiation to transmit information for just over a century then that means that at a minimum the message of Jesus has only reached about 100 light years into the depths of space.

How many of those alien civilizations have destroyed themselves from pollution or nuclear war? How many are still in pre-industrial medieval ignorance? How many of those worlds are only beginning to evolve single cell organisms and will miss the broadcasts by hundreds of millions of years before they could evolve intelligent life? How many of those worlds will be consumed by supernova explosions of their suns before they hear the words of Jesus and are saved? Even if they some how have developed technology comparable to ours how many of these civilizations will be able to understand human language? What if they are tentacled creatures or giant amoeba type beings or insects or lizards or some kind of life we cannot even begin to imagine?

The Bible says that through the sin of Adam and Eve sin entered the universe and only through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross will there be salvation.
This means that trillions upon trillions of intelligent beings presumably with souls were or are or will be doomed to hell by the actions of forbidden fruit eating humans on Earth and could have been saved if they had heard of the chance of salvation in Jesus Christ but didn't or can't or will not because the message never reached them.

It has taken almost forty years for Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 to leave our solar system and enter interstellar space.
Even if Christians were sent into space at light speed it still take them millions of light years to even exit our galaxy never mind cross inter galactic space.
By the time their descendants reached their destination would they have evolved into new species and would human civilization have vanished?
Would life have died out at their destination planet?
Would the words of Jesus be remembered by the travelers or understood by those those they visit?

Why would God have created such a vast universe and then have made it virtually impossible for it to be saved?

kylith · 19-12-2013 01:20PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Why would God have created such a vast universe and then have made it virtually impossible for it to be saved?

Because he didn't. No entity 'made' the universe. There are almost certainly no gods, and no 'saving' to be had. But that's ok because there's nothing to be saved from.

gaynorvader · 19-12-2013 01:25PM

kylith wrote: »

Because he didn't. No entity 'made' the universe. There are almost certainly no gods, and no 'saving' to be had. But that's ok because there's nothing to be saved from.

I was saved from drowning once. Her name was Hazel though, not Jesus...

syklops · 19-12-2013 01:26PM

That would be a question better asked in Christianity or Theology, but you might have to suffer the occasional cry of "witch!".

You're question, while very well thought out is basically along the lines of "Why does god allow all the suffering in the world?" or "Why is it ok to eat meat on Friday now and did the people who eat meat on a Friday go to hell?". The real answer is because its a made up story which has more holes in it than Prometheus.

Hoagy · 19-12-2013 01:28PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Even if Christians were sent into space at light speed...

Love it.

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 01:32PM

Hmmm. There's no evidence life exists elsewhere in the universe other than on earth.

gaynorvader · 19-12-2013 01:38PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

Hmmm. There's no evidence life exists elsewhere in the universe other than on earth.

True, but it would be extremely unlikely that there isn't given the number of planets.
Also, I think they found fossilised bacteria on Mars.

Balaclava1991 · 19-12-2013 01:38PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

Hmmm. There's no evidence whatsoever life exists elsewhere in the universe other than on earth.

Surely if a planet the same size as our earth is orbiting a yellow dwarf star at a distance of 93 miles and rotates on an axis tilted at the same angle as Earth, is orbited by a moon which is about the same distances as our moon is from Earth and has an atmosphere, has an ocean of water, has weather and seasons and tides and has tectonic plates, volcanoes, quakes and so on, chances are the conditions would be right for life like our own to evolve?

When you consider there are potentially hundreds of millions or billions of planets in the universe considering how vast the universe is, is it not reasonable to imagine that life could be abundant and intelligent life could be too?

That means there are trillions of souls out there that will not be saved because they don't know about Jesus the ONLY son of God.

gaynorvader · 19-12-2013 01:42PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Surely if a planet the same size as our earth is orbiting a yellow dwarf star at a distance of 93 miles and rotates on an axis tilted at the same angle as Earth, is orbited by a moon which is about the same distances as our moon is from Earth and has an atmosphere, has an ocean of water, has weather and seasons and tides and has tectonic plates, volcanoes, quakes and so on, chances are the conditions would be right for life like our own to evolve?

When you consider there are potentially hundreds of millions or billions of planets in the universe considering how vast the universe is, is it not reasonable to imagine that life could be abundant and intelligent life could be too?

That means there are trillions of souls out there that will not be saved because they don't know about Jesus the ONLY son of God.

I just realised that if you accept the Bible as truth, then there is no other life, as statistically impossible as that may be. If God really did create the universe and only made the Earth habitable, then that's the only planet that's habitable. It can only be disproved when mankind discovers another habitable planet and then will be that He only made mankind intelligent until we find intelligent life.

Sarky · 19-12-2013 01:45PM

Don't worry. Organised religion has had plenty of practice at backpedalling. They'll weather things like extraterrestrial life. The hangers-on will look even more foolish than the nuttiest hardcore Catholics do now, but they'll still be there.

syklops · 19-12-2013 01:47PM

I'll leave this here:

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 01:47PM

gaynorvader wrote: »

True, but it would be extremely unlikely that there isn't given the number of planets.
Also, I think they found fossilised bacteria on Mars.

There's a possibility something like pink unicorns can exist as well.

There's no evidence. Simple as.

I think that turned out to be contamination in the end. Probablysome careless technicians boogers.

kryogen · 19-12-2013 01:47PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

Hmmm. There's no evidence life exists elsewhere in the universe other than on earth.

There is some evidence

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/172937-water-still-flows-on-mars-potentially-harboring-life-and-we-need-to-be-careful-not-to-contaminate-it

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/12/4/scientists-only-amatteroftimetofindextraterrestriallife.html

http://io9.com/5969106/7-good-reasons-why-there-might-be-life-on-other-planets

http://news.discovery.com/space/alien-life-exoplanets/signs-of-water-found-on-5-alien-planets-131202.htm

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 01:49PM

Sarky wrote: »

Don't worry. Organised religion has had plenty of practice at backpedalling. They'll weather things like extraterrestrial life. The hangers-on will look even more foolish than the nuttiest hardcore Catholics do now, but they'll still be there.

They've also got the angels and heavenly beings get out clause, they are the original non earth lifeforms.

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 01:51PM

kryogen wrote: »

There is some evidence

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/172937-water-still-flows-on-mars-potentially-harboring-life-and-we-need-to-be-careful-not-to-contaminate-it

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/12/4/scientists-only-amatteroftimetofindextraterrestriallife.html

http://io9.com/5969106/7-good-reasons-why-there-might-be-life-on-other-planets

http://news.discovery.com/space/alien-life-exoplanets/signs-of-water-found-on-5-alien-planets-131202.htm

Potentiality is not evidence of anything. Actual evidence is evidence. You're getting as bad as the theists on here.

Balaclava1991 · 19-12-2013 01:52PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

There's a possibility something like pink unicorns can exist as well.

There's no evidence. Simple as.

I think that turned out to be contamination in the end. Probablysome careless technicians boogers.

There is no evidence for alien life currently but as has been already said, that if there was planet identical to earth somewhere in the universe then chances are there would also be intelligent life.
There may be no intelligent life anywhere but it is not impossible.
If there is then presumably they have souls and presumably they need to be saved by the ONLY son of God, Jesus Christ who was in Israel more than 2000 years ago.

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 01:58PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

There is evidence for alien life currently

Typical theist. No there is no evidence for alien life. Bring me this so called evidence. I mean actual confirmed scientific evidence of alien life, not potential, not speculation, actual scientific evidence of alien life.

oldrnwisr · 19-12-2013 02:13PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

In the Bible we are told that Jesus is the ONLY son of God and his birth, life, death and resurrection are the fulcrum around which the rest of human history, time, space and the universe revolve.
So Jesus could only have been born in Roman governed Israel in the 1st century and NOWHERE ELSE.

Now consider that there are hundreds of billions of stars in our Milky Way Galaxy and our galaxy is probably only one of hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe.

It is therefore possible that in at least one other corner of the universe a yellow dwarf star exists on the edge of a spiral galaxy orbited by a distance about 90 million miles by a rocky planet with its own moon, rotating on an axis like our own Earth with tectonic plates, with an ocean and atmosphere, with an abundance of life and populated by intelligent beings like use who have an advanced civilization and advanced technology.

If there were only one planet like our Earth in each of the hundreds of billions of galaxies and if each of those planets had a population of over 7 billion that could mean there are trillions upon trillions of beings like us in the universe.

So if Jesus is the ONLY Son of God and the spread of his message depends wholly on human beings who have only harnessed electromagnetic radiation to transmit information for just over a century then that means that at a minimum the message of Jesus has only reached about 100 light years into the depths of space.

How many of those alien civilizations have destroyed themselves from pollution or nuclear war? How many are still in pre-industrial medieval ignorance? How many of those worlds are only beginning to evolve single cell organisms and will miss the broadcasts by hundreds of millions of years before they could evolve intelligent life? How many of those worlds will be consumed by supernova explosions of their suns before they hear the words of Jesus and are saved? Even if they some how have developed technology comparable to ours how many of these civilizations will be able to understand human language? What if they are tentacled creatures or giant amoeba type beings or insects or lizards or some kind of life we cannot even begin to imagine?

The Bible says that through the sin of Adam and Eve sin entered the universe and only through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross will there be salvation.
This means that trillions upon trillions of intelligent beings presumably with souls were or are or will be doomed to hell by the actions of forbidden fruit eating humans on Earth and could have been saved if they had heard of the chance of salvation in Jesus Christ but didn't or can't or will not because the message never reached them.

It has taken almost forty years for Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 to leave our solar system and enter interstellar space.
Even if Christians were sent into space at light speed it still take them millions of light years to even exit our galaxy never mind cross inter galactic space.
By the time their descendants reached their destination would they have evolved into new species and would human civilization have vanished?
Would life have died out at their destination planet?
Would the words of Jesus be remembered by the travelers or understood by those those they visit?

Why would God have created such a vast universe and then have made it virtually impossible for it to be saved?

There is a fundamental flaw in your argument.

"The Bible says that through the sin of Adam and Eve sin entered the universe and only through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross will there be salvation."

Herein lies the problem. The sin of Adam and Eve, according to the Bible, affects their descendants in the form of original sin. So therefore, there is the need for the descendants of Adam and Eve, which is basically everyone to be saved. However, any other group of lifeforms, were they to be created would not be affected by the sin of Adam and Eve. So another creation on another planet wouldn't necessarily need saving.

Oh and one minor point of pedantry, Jesus isn't actually the ONLY son of God. The term used to describe Jesus in this fashion in John's gospel is the greek

μονογενὴς

or monogenes. However in Hebrews 11:17, Isaac is described as Abraham's only son in the same context, even though he was neither the oldest nor the only son of Abraham. Though the issue is still the subject of academic debate, it is likely IMO, that the phrase above should be rendered as favoured or special and not only.

Balaclava1991 · 19-12-2013 02:17PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

Typical theist. No there is no evidence for alien life. Bring me this so called evidence. I mean actual confirmed scientific evidence of alien life, not potential, not speculation, actual scientific evidence of alien life.

I meant to add to the word "no." I have changed it in my last comment.

Balaclava1991 · 19-12-2013 02:21PM

Herein lies the problem. The sin of Adam and Eve, according to the Bible, affects their descendants in the form of original sin. So therefore, there is the need for the descendants of Adam and Eve, which is basically everyone to be saved. However, any other group of lifeforms, were they to be created would not be affected by the sin of Adam and Eve. So another creation on another planet wouldn't necessarily need saving.

So other intelligent species if they exist on other planets are without sin? Fascinating.

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 02:22PM

oldrnwisr wrote: »

There is a fundamental flaw in your argument.

"The Bible says that through the sin of Adam and Eve sin entered the universe and only through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross will there be salvation."

Herein lies the problem. The sin of Adam and Eve, according to the Bible, affects their descendants in the form of original sin. So therefore, there is the need for the descendants of Adam and Eve, which is basically everyone to be saved. However, any other group of lifeforms, were they to be created would not be affected by the sin of Adam and Eve. So another creation on another planet wouldn't necessarily need saving.

Oh and one minor point of pedantry, Jesus isn't actually the ONLY son of God. The term used to describe Jesus in this fashion in John's gospel is the greek

μονογενὴς

or monogenes. However in Hebrews 11:17, Isaac is described as Abraham's only son in the same context, even though he was neither the oldest nor the only son of Abraham. Though the issue is still the subject of academic debate, it is likely IMO, that the phrase above should be rendered as favoured or special and not only.

Exactly, his own bible could tell him that angels, for example, the origional non earth lifeforms, don't need saving.

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 02:23PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

So other intelligent species if they exist on other planets are without sin? Fascinating.

Alien life does not need to be on a specific planet and be like mankind.
Arn't angels (not fallen angels) without sin accoring to you religion ?
And arn't the fallen angels beyond saving as they had full knowlege of God's existance and good and bad and chose to rebel ?

Balaclava1991 · 19-12-2013 02:24PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

Exactly, his own bible could tell him that angels, for example, the origional non earth lifeforms, don't need saving.

So ONLY on earth is the salvation of the ONLY Son of God needed?

We don't need light speed to spread Christian missionaries to the furthest star system then?

Phew!:)

So only human beings will go to hell?

Other intelligent life in the rest of the universe is without sin and destined to live forever. Wonderful.

SpaceTime · 19-12-2013 02:25PM

Now if we could just convince the US religious fundamentalists that they all need to pay an extra 10% tax to fund NASA, I would be absolutely delighted!

As it stands they're slashing funds for science programmes.

syklops · 19-12-2013 02:26PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

Potentiality is not evidence of anything. Actual evidence is evidence. You're getting as bad as the theists on here.

I find it absolutely hilarious that you are the same guy who wanted to know in the Storm thread in the Galway forum if there was any truth to the rumours of another bad storm on Stephens Day.

Malcolm. wrote: »

Very stormy in Salthill last night, I hear there is another bad storm coming on St. Stephens day ? any truth to this ?

Potentially.

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 02:31PM

syklops wrote: »

I find it absolutely hilarious that you are the same guy who wanted to know in the Storm thread in the Galway forum if there was any truth to the rumours of another bad storm on Stephens Day.

Oh ! a stalker following me from another forum !

The weather exists. Evidence of weather exists. Meteorology is a science that uses scientifc measurements to predict and model weather fronts up to 15 days in advance, as per the storm last night, which was forecasted and shown modeled on the weather forum 10 days ago, go back to your crystal ball you claimed you had.

syklops · 19-12-2013 02:37PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

Oh ! a stalker following me from another forum !

The weather exists. Evidence of weather exists. Meteorology is a science that uses scientifc measurements to predict and model weather fronts up to 15 days in advance, as per the storm last night, which was predicted and shown modeled on the weather forum 10 days ago, go back to your crystal ball you claimed you had.

In this thread you're a big man for the evidence, but you can't have evidence of future events. Evidence of past weather exists.

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 02:37PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

So ONLY on earth is the salvation of the ONLY Son of God needed?

We don't need light speed to spread Christian missionaries to the furthest star system then?

Phew!:)

So only human beings will go to hell?

Other intelligent life in the rest of the universe is without sin and destined to live forever. Wonderful.

You don't even know if other life exists, never mind it'stheological status. If I were you I'd concentrate your Christianitycloser to home. Arn't you supposed to start with loving yourneighbour instead of worrying about if aliens are Christians or not ?

Malcolm. · 19-12-2013 02:39PM

syklops wrote: »

In this thread you're a big man for the evidence, but you can't have evidence of future events. Evidence of past weather exists.

Your a big man for the crystal ball, off you go back to it.
I'll stick with science and metrology thanks. You stick to the voodoo.

syklops · 19-12-2013 02:43PM

Malcolm. wrote: »

Your a big man for the crystal ball, off you go back to it.
I'll stick with science and metrology thanks. You stick to the voodoo.

Lol.

robindch · 19-12-2013 02:50PM

Boys and girls -- what happens in another forum stays in another forum.

Jesus and Alien Life

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