Jesus and Alien Life

Balaclava1991

In the Bible we are told that Jesus is the ONLY son of God and his birth, life, death and resurrection are the fulcrum around which the rest of human history, time, space and the universe revolve.
So Jesus could only have been born in Roman governed Israel in the 1st century and NOWHERE ELSE.

Now consider that there are hundreds of billions of stars in our Milky Way Galaxy and our galaxy is probably only one of hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe.

It is therefore possible that in at least one other corner of the universe a yellow dwarf star exists on the edge of a spiral galaxy orbited by a distance about 90 million miles by a rocky planet with its own moon, rotating on an axis like our own Earth with tectonic plates, with an ocean and atmosphere, with an abundance of life and populated by intelligent beings like use who have an advanced civilization and advanced technology.

If there were only one planet like our Earth in each of the hundreds of billions of galaxies and if each of those planets had a population of over 7 billion that could mean there are trillions upon trillions of beings like us in the universe.

So if Jesus is the ONLY Son of God and the spread of his message depends wholly on human beings who have only harnessed electromagnetic radiation to transmit information for just over a century then that means that at a minimum the message of Jesus has only reached about 100 light years into the depths of space.

How many of those alien civilizations have destroyed themselves from pollution or nuclear war? How many are still in pre-industrial medieval ignorance? How many of those worlds are only beginning to evolve single cell organisms and will miss the broadcasts by hundreds of millions of years before they could evolve intelligent life? How many of those worlds will be consumed by supernova explosions of their suns before they hear the words of Jesus and are saved? Even if they some how have developed technology comparable to ours how many of these civilizations will be able to understand human language? What if they are tentacled creatures or giant amoeba type beings or insects or lizards or some kind of life we cannot even begin to imagine?

The Bible says that through the sin of Adam and Eve sin entered the universe and only through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross will there be salvation.
This means that trillions upon trillions of intelligent beings presumably with souls were or are or will be doomed to hell by the actions of forbidden fruit eating humans on Earth and could have been saved if they had heard of the chance of salvation in Jesus Christ but didn't or can't or will not because the message never reached them.

It has taken almost forty years for Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 to leave our solar system and enter interstellar space.
Even if Christians were sent into space at light speed it still take them millions of light years to even exit our galaxy never mind cross inter galactic space.
By the time their descendants reached their destination would they have evolved into new species and would human civilization have vanished?
Would life have died out at their destination planet?
Would the words of Jesus be remembered by the travelers or understood by those those they visit?

Why would God have created such a vast universe and then have made it virtually impossible for it to be saved?

kylith

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Why would God have created such a vast universe and then have made it virtually impossible for it to be saved?

Because he didn't. No entity 'made' the universe. There are almost certainly no gods, and no 'saving' to be had. But that's ok because there's nothing to be saved from.

gaynorvader

kylith wrote: »

Because he didn't. No entity 'made' the universe. There are almost certainly no gods, and no 'saving' to be had. But that's ok because there's nothing to be saved from.

I was saved from drowning once. Her name was Hazel though, not Jesus...

syklops

That would be a question better asked in Christianity or Theology, but you might have to suffer the occasional cry of "witch!".

You're question, while very well thought out is basically along the lines of "Why does god allow all the suffering in the world?" or "Why is it ok to eat meat on Friday now and did the people who eat meat on a Friday go to hell?". The real answer is because its a made up story which has more holes in it than Prometheus.

Hoagy

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Even if Christians were sent into space at light speed...

Love it.

Malcolm.

Hmmm. There's no evidence life exists elsewhere in the universe other than on earth.

gaynorvader

Malcolm. wrote: »

Hmmm. There's no evidence life exists elsewhere in the universe other than on earth.

True, but it would be extremely unlikely that there isn't given the number of planets.
Also, I think they found fossilised bacteria on Mars.

Balaclava1991

Malcolm. wrote: »

Hmmm. There's no evidence whatsoever life exists elsewhere in the universe other than on earth.

Surely if a planet the same size as our earth is orbiting a yellow dwarf star at a distance of 93 miles and rotates on an axis tilted at the same angle as Earth, is orbited by a moon which is about the same distances as our moon is from Earth and has an atmosphere, has an ocean of water, has weather and seasons and tides and has tectonic plates, volcanoes, quakes and so on, chances are the conditions would be right for life like our own to evolve?

When you consider there are potentially hundreds of millions or billions of planets in the universe considering how vast the universe is, is it not reasonable to imagine that life could be abundant and intelligent life could be too?

That means there are trillions of souls out there that will not be saved because they don't know about Jesus the ONLY son of God.

gaynorvader

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Surely if a planet the same size as our earth is orbiting a yellow dwarf star at a distance of 93 miles and rotates on an axis tilted at the same angle as Earth, is orbited by a moon which is about the same distances as our moon is from Earth and has an atmosphere, has an ocean of water, has weather and seasons and tides and has tectonic plates, volcanoes, quakes and so on, chances are the conditions would be right for life like our own to evolve?

When you consider there are potentially hundreds of millions or billions of planets in the universe considering how vast the universe is, is it not reasonable to imagine that life could be abundant and intelligent life could be too?

That means there are trillions of souls out there that will not be saved because they don't know about Jesus the ONLY son of God.

I just realised that if you accept the Bible as truth, then there is no other life, as statistically impossible as that may be. If God really did create the universe and only made the Earth habitable, then that's the only planet that's habitable. It can only be disproved when mankind discovers another habitable planet and then will be that He only made mankind intelligent until we find intelligent life.

Sarky

Don't worry. Organised religion has had plenty of practice at backpedalling. They'll weather things like extraterrestrial life. The hangers-on will look even more foolish than the nuttiest hardcore Catholics do now, but they'll still be there.

syklops

I'll leave this here:

Malcolm.

gaynorvader wrote: »

True, but it would be extremely unlikely that there isn't given the number of planets.
Also, I think they found fossilised bacteria on Mars.

There's a possibility something like pink unicorns can exist as well.

There's no evidence. Simple as.

I think that turned out to be contamination in the end. Probablysome careless technicians boogers.

kryogen

Malcolm. wrote: »

Hmmm. There's no evidence life exists elsewhere in the universe other than on earth.

There is some evidence

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/172937-water-still-flows-on-mars-potentially-harboring-life-and-we-need-to-be-careful-not-to-contaminate-it

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/12/4/scientists-only-amatteroftimetofindextraterrestriallife.html

http://io9.com/5969106/7-good-reasons-why-there-might-be-life-on-other-planets

http://news.discovery.com/space/alien-life-exoplanets/signs-of-water-found-on-5-alien-planets-131202.htm

Malcolm.

Sarky wrote: »

Don't worry. Organised religion has had plenty of practice at backpedalling. They'll weather things like extraterrestrial life. The hangers-on will look even more foolish than the nuttiest hardcore Catholics do now, but they'll still be there.

They've also got the angels and heavenly beings get out clause, they are the original non earth lifeforms.

Malcolm.

kryogen wrote: »

There is some evidence

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/172937-water-still-flows-on-mars-potentially-harboring-life-and-we-need-to-be-careful-not-to-contaminate-it

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/12/4/scientists-only-amatteroftimetofindextraterrestriallife.html

http://io9.com/5969106/7-good-reasons-why-there-might-be-life-on-other-planets

http://news.discovery.com/space/alien-life-exoplanets/signs-of-water-found-on-5-alien-planets-131202.htm

Potentiality is not evidence of anything. Actual evidence is evidence. You're getting as bad as the theists on here.

Balaclava1991

Malcolm. wrote: »

There's a possibility something like pink unicorns can exist as well.

There's no evidence. Simple as.

I think that turned out to be contamination in the end. Probablysome careless technicians boogers.

There is no evidence for alien life currently but as has been already said, that if there was planet identical to earth somewhere in the universe then chances are there would also be intelligent life.
There may be no intelligent life anywhere but it is not impossible.
If there is then presumably they have souls and presumably they need to be saved by the ONLY son of God, Jesus Christ who was in Israel more than 2000 years ago.

Malcolm.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

There is evidence for alien life currently

Typical theist. No there is no evidence for alien life. Bring me this so called evidence. I mean actual confirmed scientific evidence of alien life, not potential, not speculation, actual scientific evidence of alien life.

oldrnwisr

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

In the Bible we are told that Jesus is the ONLY son of God and his birth, life, death and resurrection are the fulcrum around which the rest of human history, time, space and the universe revolve.
So Jesus could only have been born in Roman governed Israel in the 1st century and NOWHERE ELSE.

Now consider that there are hundreds of billions of stars in our Milky Way Galaxy and our galaxy is probably only one of hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe.

It is therefore possible that in at least one other corner of the universe a yellow dwarf star exists on the edge of a spiral galaxy orbited by a distance about 90 million miles by a rocky planet with its own moon, rotating on an axis like our own Earth with tectonic plates, with an ocean and atmosphere, with an abundance of life and populated by intelligent beings like use who have an advanced civilization and advanced technology.

If there were only one planet like our Earth in each of the hundreds of billions of galaxies and if each of those planets had a population of over 7 billion that could mean there are trillions upon trillions of beings like us in the universe.

So if Jesus is the ONLY Son of God and the spread of his message depends wholly on human beings who have only harnessed electromagnetic radiation to transmit information for just over a century then that means that at a minimum the message of Jesus has only reached about 100 light years into the depths of space.

How many of those alien civilizations have destroyed themselves from pollution or nuclear war? How many are still in pre-industrial medieval ignorance? How many of those worlds are only beginning to evolve single cell organisms and will miss the broadcasts by hundreds of millions of years before they could evolve intelligent life? How many of those worlds will be consumed by supernova explosions of their suns before they hear the words of Jesus and are saved? Even if they some how have developed technology comparable to ours how many of these civilizations will be able to understand human language? What if they are tentacled creatures or giant amoeba type beings or insects or lizards or some kind of life we cannot even begin to imagine?

The Bible says that through the sin of Adam and Eve sin entered the universe and only through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross will there be salvation.
This means that trillions upon trillions of intelligent beings presumably with souls were or are or will be doomed to hell by the actions of forbidden fruit eating humans on Earth and could have been saved if they had heard of the chance of salvation in Jesus Christ but didn't or can't or will not because the message never reached them.

It has taken almost forty years for Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 to leave our solar system and enter interstellar space.
Even if Christians were sent into space at light speed it still take them millions of light years to even exit our galaxy never mind cross inter galactic space.
By the time their descendants reached their destination would they have evolved into new species and would human civilization have vanished?
Would life have died out at their destination planet?
Would the words of Jesus be remembered by the travelers or understood by those those they visit?

Why would God have created such a vast universe and then have made it virtually impossible for it to be saved?

There is a fundamental flaw in your argument.

"The Bible says that through the sin of Adam and Eve sin entered the universe and only through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross will there be salvation."

Herein lies the problem. The sin of Adam and Eve, according to the Bible, affects their descendants in the form of original sin. So therefore, there is the need for the descendants of Adam and Eve, which is basically everyone to be saved. However, any other group of lifeforms, were they to be created would not be affected by the sin of Adam and Eve. So another creation on another planet wouldn't necessarily need saving.


Oh and one minor point of pedantry, Jesus isn't actually the ONLY son of God. The term used to describe Jesus in this fashion in John's gospel is the greek

μονογενὴς

or monogenes. However in Hebrews 11:17, Isaac is described as Abraham's only son in the same context, even though he was neither the oldest nor the only son of Abraham. Though the issue is still the subject of academic debate, it is likely IMO, that the phrase above should be rendered as favoured or special and not only.

Balaclava1991

Malcolm. wrote: »

Typical theist. No there is no evidence for alien life. Bring me this so called evidence. I mean actual confirmed scientific evidence of alien life, not potential, not speculation, actual scientific evidence of alien life.

I meant to add to the word "no." I have changed it in my last comment.

Balaclava1991

Herein lies the problem. The sin of Adam and Eve, according to the Bible, affects their descendants in the form of original sin. So therefore, there is the need for the descendants of Adam and Eve, which is basically everyone to be saved. However, any other group of lifeforms, were they to be created would not be affected by the sin of Adam and Eve. So another creation on another planet wouldn't necessarily need saving.

So other intelligent species if they exist on other planets are without sin? Fascinating.

Malcolm.

oldrnwisr wrote: »

There is a fundamental flaw in your argument.

"The Bible says that through the sin of Adam and Eve sin entered the universe and only through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross will there be salvation."

Herein lies the problem. The sin of Adam and Eve, according to the Bible, affects their descendants in the form of original sin. So therefore, there is the need for the descendants of Adam and Eve, which is basically everyone to be saved. However, any other group of lifeforms, were they to be created would not be affected by the sin of Adam and Eve. So another creation on another planet wouldn't necessarily need saving.


Oh and one minor point of pedantry, Jesus isn't actually the ONLY son of God. The term used to describe Jesus in this fashion in John's gospel is the greek

μονογενὴς

or monogenes. However in Hebrews 11:17, Isaac is described as Abraham's only son in the same context, even though he was neither the oldest nor the only son of Abraham. Though the issue is still the subject of academic debate, it is likely IMO, that the phrase above should be rendered as favoured or special and not only.

Exactly, his own bible could tell him that angels, for example, the origional non earth lifeforms, don't need saving.

Malcolm.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

So other intelligent species if they exist on other planets are without sin? Fascinating.

Alien life does not need to be on a specific planet and be like mankind.
Arn't angels (not fallen angels) without sin accoring to you religion ?
And arn't the fallen angels beyond saving as they had full knowlege of God's existance and good and bad and chose to rebel ?

Balaclava1991

Malcolm. wrote: »

Exactly, his own bible could tell him that angels, for example, the origional non earth lifeforms, don't need saving.

So ONLY on earth is the salvation of the ONLY Son of God needed?

We don't need light speed to spread Christian missionaries to the furthest star system then?

Phew!:)

So only human beings will go to hell?

Other intelligent life in the rest of the universe is without sin and destined to live forever. Wonderful.

SpaceTime

Now if we could just convince the US religious fundamentalists that they all need to pay an extra 10% tax to fund NASA, I would be absolutely delighted!

As it stands they're slashing funds for science programmes.

syklops

Malcolm. wrote: »

Potentiality is not evidence of anything. Actual evidence is evidence. You're getting as bad as the theists on here.

I find it absolutely hilarious that you are the same guy who wanted to know in the Storm thread in the Galway forum if there was any truth to the rumours of another bad storm on Stephens Day.

Malcolm. wrote: »

Very stormy in Salthill last night, I hear there is another bad storm coming on St. Stephens day ? any truth to this ?

Potentially.

Malcolm.

syklops wrote: »

I find it absolutely hilarious that you are the same guy who wanted to know in the Storm thread in the Galway forum if there was any truth to the rumours of another bad storm on Stephens Day.

Oh ! a stalker following me from another forum !

The weather exists. Evidence of weather exists. Meteorology is a science that uses scientifc measurements to predict and model weather fronts up to 15 days in advance, as per the storm last night, which was forecasted and shown modeled on the weather forum 10 days ago, go back to your crystal ball you claimed you had.

syklops

Malcolm. wrote: »

Oh ! a stalker following me from another forum !

The weather exists. Evidence of weather exists. Meteorology is a science that uses scientifc measurements to predict and model weather fronts up to 15 days in advance, as per the storm last night, which was predicted and shown modeled on the weather forum 10 days ago, go back to your crystal ball you claimed you had.

In this thread you're a big man for the evidence, but you can't have evidence of future events. Evidence of past weather exists.

Malcolm.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

So ONLY on earth is the salvation of the ONLY Son of God needed?

We don't need light speed to spread Christian missionaries to the furthest star system then?

Phew!:)

So only human beings will go to hell?

Other intelligent life in the rest of the universe is without sin and destined to live forever. Wonderful.

You don't even know if other life exists, never mind it'stheological status. If I were you I'd concentrate your Christianitycloser to home. Arn't you supposed to start with loving yourneighbour instead of worrying about if aliens are Christians or not ?

Malcolm.

syklops wrote: »

In this thread you're a big man for the evidence, but you can't have evidence of future events. Evidence of past weather exists.

Your a big man for the crystal ball, off you go back to it.
I'll stick with science and metrology thanks. You stick to the voodoo.

syklops

Malcolm. wrote: »

Your a big man for the crystal ball, off you go back to it.
I'll stick with science and metrology thanks. You stick to the voodoo.

Lol.

robindch

Boys and girls -- what happens in another forum stays in another forum.

Balaclava1991

Malcolm. wrote: »

You don't even know if other life exists, never mind it'stheological status. If I were you I'd concentrate your Christianitycloser to home. Arn't you supposed to start with loving yourneighbour instead of worrying about if aliens are Christians or not ?

Why are you brushing aside the obvious theological implications if intelligent life on other planets exists?

As I have said already if there are planets that are identical or near enough to our world through out this galaxy and in other galaxies in the universe and when you consider the limitations of human technology, one has to wonder why God devised such a poor way of making his ONLY son Jesus known to potentially trillions and trillions of souls in need of salvation?

It is not unreasonable to imagine that intelligent life perhaps even intelligent life almost identical to our own exists somewhere in the universe.

Christianity assumes humanity is special and that human behavior is monitored by the creator of the universe and that this creator decided to save us by sending his ONLY son who was ALSO God in human form to be born, live and die ONLY ONCE and NOWHERE ELSE.

If intelligent life exists elsewhere and we have no way of contacting these intelligent beings and helping them reach heaven one must wonder just how competent God is.

gaynorvader

Malcolm. wrote: »

There's a possibility something like pink unicorns can exist as well.

There's no evidence. Simple as.

I think that turned out to be contamination in the end. Probablysome careless technicians boogers.

The possibility of pink unicorns existing is quite small. The possibility of the same precursors to life lining up on another planet as they did on this one are also quite small. However, the number of planets mean that it is more likely that there is life on at least one other planet somewhere in the universe. An good analogy would be if you were to roll a six-sided die, how confident would you be of rolling a six? What if you rolled that die 1,000 times? Obviously it is possible that you would not roll a six after 1,000 die rolls, but it'd be extremely unlikely. There's also no evidence that you would roll a 6, but I'd still be pretty sure that you would.

All in all, I'd say that there is, in all likelihood, life on other planets, though I obviously can't be sure.

Malcolm.

gaynorvader wrote: »

The possibility of pink unicorns existing is quite small. The possibility of the same precursors to life lining up on another planet as they did on this one are also quite small. However, the number of planets mean that it is more likely that there is life on at least one other planet somewhere in the universe. An good analogy would be if you were to roll a six-sided die, how confident would you be of rolling a six? What if you rolled that die 1,000 times? Obviously it is possible that you would not roll a six after 1,000 die rolls, but it'd be extremely unlikely. There's also no evidence that you would roll a 6, but I'd still be pretty sure that you would.

All in all, I'd say that there is, in all likelihood, life on other planets, though I obviously can't be sure.

In something as vast as the universe there is a possibility of a lot of things.
The fact remain, there is no evidence of any alien life. That's the point. No evidence.
Bring me proper scientific evidence of alien life, until then I will be suspending belief that it exists.

Malcolm.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Why are you brushing aside the obvious theological implications if intelligent life on other planets exists?

As I have said already if there are planets that are identical or near enough to our world through out this galaxy and in other galaxies in the universe and when you consider the limitations of human technology, one has to wonder why God devised such a poor way of making his ONLY son Jesus known to potentially trillions and trillions of souls in need of salvation?

It is not unreasonable to imagine that intelligent life perhaps even intelligent life almost identical to our own exists somewhere in the universe.

Christianity assumes humanity is special and that human behavior is monitored by the creator of the universe and that this creator decided to save us by sending his ONLY son who was ALSO God in human form to be born, live and die ONLY ONCE and NOWHERE ELSE.

If intelligent life exists elsewhere and we have no way of contacting these intelligent beings and helping them reach heaven one must wonder just how competent God is.

Your own book, the bible, would claim other supposed life in the cosmos such as angels managed to find out about god and jesus without your help. You're not a missionary to other worlds.

Akrasia

Malcolm. wrote: »

Typical theist. No there is no evidence for alien life. Bring me this so called evidence. I mean actual confirmed scientific evidence of alien life, not potential, not speculation, actual scientific evidence of alien life.

We haven't discovered it yet.

The possibility that there is life elsewhere in the universe is a scientifically plausible one. It fits in perfectly well with our current understanding of the universe

Just because we haven't discovered any examples of life outside of planet Earth does not mean that the suggestion 'alien life probably exists' is the same as 'unicorns probably exist'

Before the first exoplanets were discovered you would have been scientifically justified in saying that even though we haven't found any yet, there are almost certainly billions of other planets outside of our solar system.

Now that we have found many exo planets, it is scientifically plausible to suggest that there are probably billions of exo-moons out there even if we haven't found any yet.

It is a scientifically plausible claim to suggest that life probably exists on other places than Earth because we know that life exists here, and we know that there are so many other possible places for life to exist that it is extremely unlikely that nowhere in the universe has ever had the same conditions that allowed life to evolve here.
It is also possible that we will never know for sure. It's possible that other life exists but we'll never discover it

Balaclava1991

Malcolm. wrote: »

Your own book, the bible, would claim other supposed life in the cosmos such as angels managed to find out about god and jesus without your help. You're not a missionary to other worlds.

How would other worlds have found out about Jesus unless they knew about Planet Earth and heard about him from the human race?

Balaclava1991

Malcolm. wrote: »

In something as vast as the universe there is a possibility of a lot of things.
The fact remain, there is no evidence of any alien life. That's the point. No evidence.
Bring me proper scientific evidence of alien life, until then I will be suspending belief that it exists.

Do you think it would be very strange indeed if there was only intelligent life on one planet in the entire universe?

If intelligent life is abundant then how will they ever know about Jesus and how will they be saved?

Malcolm.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

How would other worlds have found out about Jesus unless they knew about Planet Earth and heard about him from the human race?

In your book, how did the angels the other world find out about him ?

Malcolm.

Akrasia wrote: »

We haven't discovered it yet.

The possibility that there is life elsewhere in the universe is a scientifically plausible one. It fits in perfectly well with our current understanding of the universe

Just because we haven't discovered any examples of life outside of planet Earth does not mean that the suggestion 'alien life probably exists' is the same as 'unicorns probably exist'

Before the first exoplanets were discovered you would have been scientifically justified in saying that even though we haven't found any yet, there are almost certainly billions of other planets outside of our solar system.

Now that we have found many exo planets, it is scientifically plausible to suggest that there are probably billions of exo-moons out there even if we haven't found any yet.

It is a scientifically plausible claim to suggest that life probably exists on other places than Earth because we know that life exists here, and we know that there are so many other possible places for life to exist that it is extremely unlikely that nowhere in the universe has ever had the same conditions that allowed life to evolve here.
It is also possible that we will never know for sure. It's possible that other life exists but we'll never discover it

It possible a lot of things exist, but I'll be suspending belief untill there is evidence and there is none. Have you got any ?

Balaclava1991

Malcolm. wrote: »

In your book, how did the angels the other world find out about him ?

According to the Bible the angels live in heaven with God and see him all the time and travel between heaven and the earth as his messengers.

They are not aliens but heavenly beings.

When I am talking about aliens I am talking about intelligent life forms who live on other planets.

How are they supposed to find out about Jesus given the limitations of our technology and the astronomical distances between stars and galaxies?

Jesus was the ONLY Son of God and was born in 1st century Israel and NOWHERE ELSE.

Malcolm.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

According to the Bible the angels live in heaven with God and see him all the time and travel between heaven and the earth as his messengers.

They are not aliens but heavenly beings.

When I am talking about aliens I am talking about intelligent life forms who live on other planets.

How are they supposed to find out about Jesus given the limitations of our technology and the astronomical distances between stars and galaxies?

Jesus was the ONLY Son of God and was born in 1st century Israel and NOWHERE ELSE.

By its very definition anything not of planet earth is an extra terrestrial, that includes God and Angels.
Other than call it the heavens, your book does not specify anything about their world, what it is, where it is, or what its like.
So in other words other beings in the heavens found out without you.
I thought your book made it clear Jesus always existed. How did men on earth find out without men from another planet coming to tell them they were saved ? Are you saying God/Jesus cannot contact any other planet or beings ? Would this be because deep down you suspect God is man made ?

keane2097

Malcolm. wrote: »

By its very definition anything not of planet earth is an extra terrestrial.
So in other words other beings in the heavens found out without you.
I thought your book made it clear Jesus always existed. How did men on earth find out without men from another planet coming to tell them they were saved ? Are you saying God/Jesus cannot contact any other planet or beings ?

I'm not sure I'm buying that you really think angels and space aliens are the same thing.

gaynorvader

Malcolm. wrote: »

In something as vast as the universe there is a possibility of a lot of things.
The fact remain, there is no evidence of any alien life. That's the point. No evidence.
Bring me proper scientific evidence of alien life, until then I will be suspending belief that it exists.

I feel like you missed the point of my analogy

Do you trust the weather forecasts? There's no evidence that they're going to be right. They're taking what we know (current weather patterns) and extrapolating. It's the same with extraterrestrial life; we're taking what we know (life can exist) and extrapolating.

Malcolm.

gaynorvader wrote: »

I feel like you missed the point of my analogy

Do you trust the weather forecasts? There's no evidence that they're going to be right. They're taking what we know (current weather patterns) and extrapolating. It's the same with extraterrestrial life; we're taking what we know (life can exist) and extrapolating.

Unlike alien life weather is proven to exist. You're missing the point. There is no evidence of alien life.

In something as vast as the universe there is a possibility of a lot of things.
The fact remain, there is no evidence of any alien life. That's the point. No evidence. Bring me proper scientific evidence of alien life, until then I will be suspending belief that it exists.

Balaclava1991

Malcolm. wrote: »

By its very definition anything not of planet earth is an extra terrestrial, that includes God and Angels.
So in other words other beings in the heavens found out without you.
I thought your book made it clear Jesus always existed. How did men on earth find out without men from another planet coming to tell them they were saved ? Are you saying God/Jesus cannot contact any other planet or beings ? Would this be because deep down you suspect God is man made ?

According to the Bible God is the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob and the Jews who were their descendants were the chosen people and NOBODY else. Before Jesus arrived on earth and sent his apostles and followers forth to bring the Good News to the pagans and converted them NONE of the other nations and peoples had access to salvation.
It is quite clear that since none of the other nations could be saved until they came in contact with Christianity when followers of the faith finally arrived and preached to them then no alien species in the far reaches of the galaxy could possibly know about God.
Until they are reached by Christian missionaries and baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit they cannot be saved.
Even human beings had starships that could go at warp speed it would take hundreds of millions of years to go even a fraction of the distance across the universe.
Human made electromagnetic signals have only traveled about light century into the depths of space.
I don't the first time the New Testament was broadcast but at the very maximum about 100 light years is the distance the message of Jesus has reached.
That's a pretty poor distribution system that God has created considering how critical it is that souls are saved.

gaynorvader

Malcolm. wrote: »

Unlike alien life weather is proven to exist. You're missing the point. There is no evidence of alien life.

In something as vast as the universe there is a possibility of a lot of things.
The fact remain, there is no evidence of any alien life. That's the point. No evidence. Bring me proper scientific evidence of alien life, until then I will be suspending belief that it exists.

I'm not missing the point, though I fear you're missing mine.

Current weather is proven to exist.
Terrestial life is proven to exist.

Future weather is not proven to exist.
Extraterrestial life is not proven to exist.

Using data to extrapolate is what science is all about (hyperbole alert).

keane2097

Malcolm. wrote: »

Unlike alien life weather is proven to exist. You're missing the point. There is no evidence of alien life.

I'm not sure if this really needs saying but the comparison isn't between extant weather and alien life. The comparison is between extant life and extant weather versus predicted life and predicted weather.

gerrybbadd

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

That means there are trillions of souls out there that will not be saved because they don't know about Jesus the ONLY son of God.

Have you considered that Alien life might have their own version of Jesus and God? God is a made up HUMAN invention, created by people in order to try and explain how their surroundings came to be. Because they couldn't comprehend the sky, moon, stars etc. We now know where they came from scientifically, fact. So, to say there are trillions of unsaved souls out there in the universe because they don't know about Jesus is a bit short sighted to say the least

oldrnwisr

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

According to the Bible God is the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob and the Jews who were their descendants were the chosen people and NOBODY else. Before Jesus arrived on earth and sent his apostles and followers forth to bring the Good News to the pagans and converted them NONE of the other nations and peoples had access to salvation.
It is quite clear that since none of the other nations could be saved until they came in contact with Christianity when followers of the faith finally arrived and preached to them then no alien species in the far reaches of the galaxy could possibly know about God.
Until they are reached by Christian missionaries and baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit they cannot be saved.
Even human beings had starships that could go at warp speed it would take hundreds of millions of years to go even a fraction of the distance across the universe.
Human made electromagnetic signals have only traveled about light century into the depths of space.
I don't the first time the New Testament was broadcast but at the very maximum about 100 light years is the distance the message of Jesus has reached.
That's a pretty poor distribution system that God has created considering how critical it is that souls are saved.

You seem to have completely ignored my last point so let me try again.

Even if we were to take the Biblical account as true, the necessity of Jesus' arrival on Earth was driven by our fallen nature which we inherit from the first humans, Adam and Eve. So, therefore only the descendants of Adam and Eve would be in need of salvation through Jesus. A separate group of beings, human or otherwise, created by God would not be tarred with the same brush of original sin and would therefore not need to be saved.

As interesting as your thought experiment is, it is fatally undermined by your failure to assimilate this point.

Balaclava1991

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Have you considered that Alien life might have their own version of Jesus and God? God is a made up HUMAN invention, created by people in order to try and explain how their surroundings came to be. Because they couldn't comprehend the sky, moon, stars etc. We now know where they came from scientifically, fact. So, to say there are trillions of unsaved souls out there in the universe because they don't know about Jesus is a bit short sighted to say the least

If Jesus is the ONLY son of God then he could have existed ONLY on Planet Earth in the 1st century and NOWHERE ELSE.
If you are a believing Christian you MUST believe that.
Therefore if there are potentially trillions of unsaved souls on other planets they will only hear about Jesus from Christians and NOWHERE ELSE.
God has not given Christians the means to able to fulfill the mission of saving them - preaching to them, converting them and baptizing them.
Therefore this utterly undermines the whole basis of the Christian faith.