Teacher behaviour

Muff Richardson · 12-12-2013 07:40PM

taxus_baccata wrote: »

This is no way to treat a child. Try to talk to your son this evening, make notes. Then arrange an appointmentbwith the principal and teacher(s).
In response to the poster that says there are two sides - fair enough there are always two sides to every story but humiliation has no place in school.

My heart aches for you OP must be so hard to see your son upset like this.

erm...you're still missing the "there are two sides to every story" bit...this may come as a shock but children have been known to lie from time to time and give a version of events which may exist only in their what they want you to believe.

get both sides of the story and then see who and if somebody has been humiliated and then deal with it.

clairefontaine · 12-12-2013 08:16PM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Humiliated how? Was he asked to get on his knees with a toothbrush in front of the whole school?

Yes humiliated. He was forced into a submissive humiliating posture by his teacher.

And his reaction would tell you that yes, yes he was humiliated.

It was an inappropriate and destructive act of discipline.

byhookorbycrook · 12-12-2013 08:46PM

As you are not the OP, I don't think you can answer my question. If he was asked to sweep the floor, that was neither forcing a posture or humiliating, children help keep the classroom tidy all of the time. Being physically pushed to his knees with a toothbrush would "forcing a posture" and also humiliating to me.

clairefontaine · 12-12-2013 09:27PM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

As you are not the OP, I don't think you can answer my question. If he was asked to sweep the floor, that was neither forcing a posture or humiliating, children help keep the classroom tidy all of the time. Being physically pushed to his knees with a toothbrush would "forcing a posture" and also humiliating to me.

That's in the context of group collaboration where helping is positively reinforced. Using cleaning as a punishment in which a child is shamed and demanded to get in their knees is abusive.

If a teacher approves of this method of discipline I would not want my child is such a classroom. And if the Department of Education endorses such shaming tactics, then its no wonder the majority of people hate school and resent going in every day.

Muff Richardson · 12-12-2013 09:36PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

That's in the context of group collaboration where helping is positively reinforced. Using cleaning as a punishment in which a child is shamed and demanded to get in their knees is abusive.

If a teacher approves of this method of discipline I would not want my child is such a classroom. And if the Department of Education endorses such shaming tactics, then its no wonder the majority of people hate school and resent going in every day.

i dont approve of it but only because its a fairly pointless form of punishment, too light and as mentioned cleaning should and would be done as a group unit at the end of the day or certain times of the day. additional homework or certain privileges taken away would be more suitable.

the majority of people hating and resenting going in everyday i disagree with, particularly at primary level.

paleo muinteoir · 12-12-2013 10:06PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

the majority of people hate school and resent going in every day.

What a ridiculous and untrue generalisation.

Big Bag of Chips · 13-12-2013 12:28AM

anneree wrote: »

his words were he will not have a member of staff threatened so therefore she told him that is what I did.

That's quite a leap you're making there! She may have relayed the conversation exactly as it happened, and HE interpreted the "this isn't over, my husband will be in" comment as threatening his staff.

Either way, you admit to getting angry on your way in, so probably came across aggressive. You may not have meant to directly threaten the teacher, but that doesn't mean the teacher didn't feel threatened by you, or that the principal didn't interpret your comments as threatening.

Hank Scorpio · 13-12-2013 12:41AM

When i was in school we were made pickup rubbish off the ground even when it was raining. Stinky stuff not a bit of paper off the carpet. This wasnt that long ago either.

You spoke too agressively to the teacher and made the person feel threatened. Write an apology and move on with your sons and your life. Sort it now so you can enjoy xmas. He only has a few.months left in the school

anneree · 13-12-2013 01:28AM

He was told to gown on his knees under all the kids desks and pick up crumbs which he did do under his own desk and then she said he had to do everyone elses section aswel so if thats not degrading humiliating to a child well what is.. usually tgey all tidy each day then after the cleaners come in and hoover.. my son was put down on all fours picking up was left for the hoovering.. she was degrading him

Also the eat in class but could sit with their friends she does not allow this.. bear in mind all tge other teachers allowed them .. they are 12 not babies that have to eat all their lunch up anyway thats why he said he spoke to his friend.
Look I told ye from the start I was cross would it not have been a more professional way to handle it by talking it out which I did with the teacher and then the principle does that without first askung how I felt abt the meeting just rand said my name and said he wont have one of his staff members threatned? Went all embarrassed then when I had no idea what he was talking about that the meeting finished on a good note.. then he comes in and boom. Not professional. Ive teachers in my family as well and basically they thought like ye that maybe it wasnt the wisest move going in stressed but couldnt believe the manner in which he took me without even knowing the facts... my kids are in these people hands im not there if they act up punish them appropriately. Do not humiliate him or have the class laughing at himwhile on the floor.. then getting attacked the next day and no mention of the actual problem. Im going to enjoy christmas draft up a letter to the board and let it at that. At least their managers will have a record just in case this happens again. As for my son il keep going for another while but I have looked into other schools in the area too just to be sure

clairefontaine · 13-12-2013 01:32AM

paleo muinteoir wrote: »

What a ridiculous and untrue generalisation.

It still does not invalidate the abusive and inappropriate nature of the course of discipline that was taken.

seavill · 13-12-2013 01:34AM

Look it's like this. People are giving advice that you don't like and again you are coming across overly aggressive. This is adding to people's opinions.

At this stage if you don't like it move your child. Otherwise get over it. You have stated in a previous post it was how you were treated that annoyed you more. You are going too and from your sons issue when it suits the argument.

If it was that much of a travesty move him.

If not get over it and move on

clairefontaine · 13-12-2013 01:39AM

seavill wrote: »

Look it's like this. People are giving advice that you don't like and again you are coming across overly aggressive. This is adding to people's opinions.

At this stage if you don't like it move your child. Otherwise get over it. You have stated in a previous post it was how you were treated that annoyed you more. You are going too and from your sons issue when it suits the argument.

If it was that much of a travesty move him.

If not get over it and move on

Holy ****. If you don't like the way your child was humiliated then leave?

What kind of way is that to resolve anything?

Nice.

Hank Scorpio · 13-12-2013 01:52AM

anneree wrote: »

He was told to gown on his knees under all the kids desks and pick up crumbs which he did do under his own desk and then she said he had to do everyone elses section aswel so if thats not degrading humiliating to a child well what is.. usually tgey all tidy each day then after the cleaners come in and hoover.. my son was put down on all fours picking up was left for the hoovering.. she was degrading him

Things like the above were common in my youth, much worse in fact. Some teachers are stricter than others, you're taking things to a very personal level.

Do you really want to isolate your son from his friends and switch schools, news travels fast and secondary school he'll have to learn to toughen up for himself.

Take a breath and think about the implications.

seavill · 13-12-2013 09:15AM

clairefontaine wrote: »

Holy ****. If you don't like the way your child was humiliated then leave?

What kind of way is that to resolve anything?

Nice.

If you care to read the thread and my other posts I have advice to the op numerous times however their initial issue is not the issue.

The details of the story have changed numerous times to suit. Extra details have been added and added that were left out at the start.
The lunch part was added in irrelevant to help the story. If you go back to where the op came onto this thread on page one. No where do they mention that the child was purposefully humiliated in front of the rest of the class and forced onto their hands and knees to pick up other peoples crumbs. It was just simply stated that he was asked to clean the floor. To me that's a massive piece of information to get out at the start if true as it would clearly chance peoples opinion on the situation yet that was only added in recently

People have given advice but the op is very "stern" with them each time they don't like it as with the teacher.

And yes if you are really that upset about how your child was treated I would leave because the teacher and principal are not going anywhere however the op has admitted a few posts back that they are bothered by how they were spoken to more than the child however can't see that the whole thing about how they were dealt with came from their own inappropriate actions

anneree · 13-12-2013 09:41AM

Seaville basically what you are saying so is its all my fault they have no part to play in this and I'm aggressive and stern sorry but I don't buy into that, it's a long story and there are still more things said after I'm typing on my phone so it's hard trying to get it all out.
I've admitted my fault I asked for opinions on the rest, the fact you have no opinion on their parts yet tear me apart for mine which I accept simply says you accept their role in their part as perfectly fine behaviour towards a concerned parent. I don't really get it but if that's your opinion your entitled to it, it still doesn't bring a solution. I am an upset Parent that wasn't handled professionally and neither was my child. Another point was when hearing about the laser incident his first line was right thing are after getting really out of control. No other incident simply that another child brought a laser to school and shone it my guy shone it too, but my guy is out of control... I'm sorry that also is not out of control behaviour it's an inexperienced biased principle that cannot seem to deal with everyday problems without creating a huge drama and upsetting everyone. Kids of 12 being threatened about solicitors and guards yeah he's an amazing principle. I'm well passed off so telling me it's all my fault isn't really getting me anywhere I've deformed made errors in my handling but I'm a parent I'm not trained to be professional in things like this as obviously my emotions are involved. Your entitled to your opinion but you seem to think I want a thread of lets hate these people. I don't I'm on edge with the whole thing I'm using my gut instinct which is all I can do after sending three kids through school I'm not the parent fighting with the teachers which u seem to think I am

seavill · 13-12-2013 09:57AM

I gave several suggestions a few pages back which you have since disregarded so I gave alternate advice. I have never said it was all your fault find a quote of me saying that??

I have said that your story has changed which it has vital details left out. I have said how you handled it was wrong others have days you were threatening which you only half agree with and won't admit. It came across as threatening.

Your story of what exactly happened re the rubbish has changed which is why I won't comment on that as I'm not sure which part to believe.

I got your side of the story very bias so I will comment on your actions. If I got their side from them I would comment on their actions.

I still stand over if you have that much of a problem and thick it was really that terrible what happened I would move. If you feel that is how the school treat kids and you are so against it I would move. They are not going to change how they do things in next few months so the only optin is you

Muff Richardson · 13-12-2013 11:46AM

it's 'princiPAL'....sorry, pet hate

i'll give it to you straight, your kid sounds like a nightmare and this has spiralled out of control for the most part because of you and your inability to accept that your little angel is not in fact a little angel and should take a stupid punishment on the chin like most other kids who misbehave, in my opinion he should've been disciplined far more severly in light of his laser pen antics. your lack of professionalism was met with the same due lack of professionalism. they'd probably be delighted if you took him out of the school and neither of you would be missed deep down, so do that if it means so much to you. end of story, can we close the thread?

Prodigal Son · 13-12-2013 12:55PM

Boskowski wrote: »

Thinking the same thing here.
Now I have no kids myself but teachers in the family and while not accusing the OP here (although the username speaks volumes) parents are a nightmare these days. Nothing but attitude and my precious little darlings.
Of course its never their prodigal kids fault and how dare the teachers trying to maintain some sort of discipline in the classroom. :rolleyes:

Look OP he got a good talking to. What would classroom discipline come to if teachers couldn't even do that anymore?
And even if he didn't do it (whatever it was) you weren't there and depend on the word of an 11 year old. Of course he's your prodigal son and wouldn't ever lie to you :rolleyes: but he got a talking to this time and probably got away on other occasions and such is life.

What are you even trying to say when you're saying 'is he even allowed to be alone with my son like this'? I know you're probably angry but its that kind of shoite talk that starts to turn this society into a fkn nightmare for everyone. What are you even hinting at with that comment? Thats totally out of order, think about it.

@boskowski - the user name is mine, not my sons and refers to the time I spent working across Europe & elsewhere.

You took sides pretty convincingly there, with little to go on. As it turns out, my son didn't lie, another child had already admitted fault, but the teacher in question wouldn't accept it. Why - only they know. Plus, a talking to is acceptable, shouting so that other children inside classrooms some distance away could hear (as I subsequently found out) is not.

As for questioning if a teacher can be alone with a child, my question stemmed from a recent child protection course I took for a sports club where we were told never to end up alone with a child.

Your post is just a stream of sarcasm and of no constructive value, unlike the useful first few responses, for which I am grateful.

Big Bag of Chips · 13-12-2013 01:27PM

anneree wrote: »

the eat in class but could sit with their friends she does not allow this.. bear in mind all tge other teachers allowed them ..

That's all irrelevant. It doesn't matter that other teachers allow something. She doesn't. She is allowed have rules in her own class, even if other teachers don't have the same rules. Am I right that this happened in October? So before Halloween? And you are still bringing it up in December??

il keep going for another while but I have looked into other schools in the area too just to be sure

It's Christmas. Your son has a few weeks left in school. Letting it go "for another while" and taking you child out of 6th class in February or March for an incident that happened in October, seems beyond silly to me, and more about you making a point, than actually having an issue with how your son was dealt with 4 or 5 months previously.

I'm finished here... It's like talking to a wall!

byhookorbycrook · 13-12-2013 03:20PM

Mod Warning :Unless people can be civil, I am going to start handing out infractions.

paleo muinteoir · 13-12-2013 05:31PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

It still does not invalidate the abusive and inappropriate nature of the course of discipline that was taken.

I didn't make comment on any of that - simply commented that this was a massively sweeping generalisation, and one which i know to be untrue. Simple.

clairefontaine · 13-12-2013 05:38PM

So basically what I am deducing from this thread, is the vast majority of people on this thread, including those who are school teachers, support this teachers choice of of humiliating this child, based on their impressions of the child's parent, that they have garnered from their posts on the Internet.

So in other words, you endorse the humiliation of a child, based on your opinions of their message board posts, which have nothing to do with the child or the teachers choice of disciplinary actions.

Huh.

Insect Overlord · 13-12-2013 05:40PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

So basically what I am deducing from this thread, is the vast majority of people on this thread, including those who are school teachers, support this teachers choice of of humiliating this child, based on their impressions of the child's parent, that they have garnered from their posts on the Internet.

So in other words, you endorse the humiliation of a child, based on your opinions of their message board posts, which have nothing to do with the child or the teachers choice of disciplinary actions.

Huh.

You're wrong there. A punishment is a punishment. It has nothing to with the parent's subsequent actions.

You're the one who's exaggerating and insisting it's some kind of life-changing, emotionally scarring humiliation.

clairefontaine · 13-12-2013 05:44PM

Insect Overlord wrote: »

You're wrong there. A punishment is a punishment. It has nothing to with the parent's subsequent actions.

You're the one who's exaggerating and insisting it's some kind of life-changing, emotionally scarring humiliation.

Does it have to be life changing and scarring for it to be wrong?

Why is everything all or nothing in these discussions?

The punishment was inappropriate. And people are all over the parent here calling him/her aggressive. Why wouldn't they be aggressive if the attempts to redress what happened are met with brick walls?

Insect Overlord · 13-12-2013 05:49PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

The punishment was inappropriate. And people are all over the parent here calling him/her aggressive. Why wouldn't they be aggressive if the attempts to redress what happened are met with brick walls?

The reaction was also inappropriate. There should not have been interference with the essay. It's also quite easy to come across as threatening even with a smile on your face. But you've been told all this already and rejected it, so I don't know why I'm bothering to repeat it.

clairefontaine · 13-12-2013 05:50PM

Insect Overlord wrote: »

The reaction was also inappropriate. There should not have been interference with the essay. It's also quite easy to come across as threatening even with a smile on your face. But you've been told all this already and rejected it, so I don't know why I'm bothering to repeat it.

How is saying you are going to bring in your husband threatening?

Tramps Like Us · 13-12-2013 05:56PM

Hard to believe that in 2013 some women (a small, shrill minority) still pull out the "wait till you hear from my husband" card, have you no self respect? Its meant as a threat but when I hear it all I do is lose any respect for the person saying it.

He had to clean up? And do an essay? I had imagined that most parents give out to their kids when they get punishments for misbehaving (mine always did) not tell them not to do it, but based on this thread these contrary parents seem common enough?

seavill · 13-12-2013 06:00PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

So basically what I am deducing from this thread, is the vast majority of people on this thread, including those who are school teachers, support this teachers choice of of humiliating this child, based on their impressions of the child's parent, that they have garnered from their posts on the Internet.

So in other words, you endorse the humiliation of a child, based on your opinions of their message board posts, which have nothing to do with the child or the teachers choice of disciplinary actions.

Huh.

I don't believe you will find anywhere that people said that so I would certainly appreciate you not putting words in my mouth whatever about anyone else.

I'm presuming that others are of similar thinking to me that we don't necessarily believe that this was the humiliating act it is only lately being made out to be. If the act was that bad she/he would have said it at the start. It would have been the only thing they would have needed to say to get people on side but when it wasn't going the way they wanted they threw in a string description to help the argument.
I took from the first post that the child was asked to sweep the floor or pick up a little litter. Certainly not the humiliating act it is now being made out to be.

Also no mention of the other boy since that got the same punishment.

Surely you would have spoken to their parents to gain support if it was as humiliating for both. Also as someone else said why suddenly now 2 months later is this becoming an issue

clairefontaine · 13-12-2013 06:04PM

seavill wrote: »

I don't believe you will find anywhere that people said that so I would certainly appreciate you not putting words in my mouth whatever about anyone else.

I'm presuming that others are of similar thinking to me that we don't necessarily believe that this was the humiliating act it is only lately being made out to be. If the act was that bad she/he would have said it at the start. It would have been the only thing they would have needed to say to get people on side but when it wasn't going the way they wanted they threw in a string description to help the argument.
I took from the first post that the child was asked to sweep the floor or pick up a little litter. Certainly not the humiliating act it is now being made out to be.

Also no mention of the other boy since that got the same punishment.

Surely you would have spoken to their parents to gain support if it was as humiliating for both. Also as someone else said why suddenly now 2 months later is this becoming an issue

I agree that the timing is not great.

Why would you speak to the other parents? You can only be responsible for your own child.

So now that it was explained further and now that you have more information, can you see the shaming tactics used?

Insect Overlord · 13-12-2013 06:05PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

How is saying you are going to bring in your husband threatening?

Here is what the poster said:

I spoke to the teacher sternly I said how annoyed I was but that we would draw a line under it and move forward. I asked my son to go in the next day apologise and move on. He agreed and did that.
Later that morning I got a call from the school principal who said he didnt take lightly to a member of his staff being threatned.. I almost died. At no point did I threaten or abuse her, I told her I was his parent and I felt that she had no right to ignore our wishes to discuss the issue I said his father was also unhappy and would be in touch regarding the matter as he was at work that day.

I've put the important parts in bold.

The mother spoke to the teacher sternly. Not a great start, but whatever. Complaining about "rights" and "wishes" was the next silly step, because it basically ignored the teacher's requirements for discipline in the class.

Finally, it should have been enough for one parent to make contact. Adding on that the father would also "be in touch" when the mother has already been in could easily be seen as a subtle threat.

Teacher behaviour

Comments