Teacher behaviour

seavill

clairefontaine wrote: »

I agree that the timing is not great.

Why would you speak to the other parents? You can only be responsible for your own child.

So now that it was explained further and now that you have more information, can you see the shaming tactics used?

Of course you are only responsible for your own. Let them be responsible for theirs if they didn't know.
I would contact the other parents because firstly if it was that bad and I was unhappy with the punishment and how humiliated the child was I would want to make sure the other child was ok and the other parents were aware of what happened. Surely they would feel the same?
It would also add weight to bringing the issue to the school. Two parents unhappy with how both kids were treated.

I have alluded to this maybe without being clear. I don't believe the new version of the story that's why I won't comment on that.

Would you agree if that was your child and you were writing on here it would be the first thing you would put in????? It certainly would be for me

clairefontaine

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Here is what the poster said:



I've put the important parts in bold.

The mother spoke to the teacher sternly. Not a great start, but whatever. Complaining about "rights" and "wishes" was the next silly step, because it basically ignored the teacher's requirements for discipline in the class.

Finally, it should have been enough for one parent to make contact. Adding on that the father would also "be in touch" when the mother has already been in could easily be seen as a subtle threat.

I can't see a threat. Saying the dad will be in touch is a threat? exactly what is the threat there?

And this was after the child was sent into apologise?

seavill

clairefontaine wrote: »

I can't see a threat. Saying the dad will be in touch is a threat? exactly what is the threat there?

And this was after the child was sent into apologise?

Christ.

Look. The last poster and I could interpret it as threatening as opposed to an actual threat.

The teacher must have felt the same way.

You may not agree.

The op may be more careful next time choosing her words just in case it comes across in a way set didn't intend

Nonoperational

Christ, I'm out of school a few years, but many's the time I had to sweep the yard or the classroom for being a cheeky little brat. My parents' reaction would be to stop messing and cop on. Thank God they didn't come into the school and make a scene over it.

clairefontaine

seavill wrote: »

Of course you are only responsible for your own. Let them be responsible for theirs if they didn't know.
I would contact the other parents because firstly if it was that bad and I was unhappy with the punishment and how humiliated the child was I would want to make sure the other child was ok and the other parents were aware of what happened. Surely they would feel the same?
It would also add weight to bringing the issue to the school. Two parents unhappy with how both kids were treated.

I have alluded to this maybe without being clear. I don't believe the new version of the story that's why I won't comment on that.

Would you agree if that was your child and you were writing on here it would be the first thing you would put in????? It certainly would be for me

It might be for you, but it might be a detail that they neglected to include first time around. It doesn't mean they are lying.

Also as for calling other parents and getting them involved. I have two things to say to that.

I don't have the phone numbers of other parents myself, so I can't do that. It's a non issue for me, and secondly I am very direct and like to deal with my relationships myself and same for my child's.

But either way, I'm not going to judge the credibility of what others say based on the actions that I would take, we are not the same people nor do we have the same children or lives.

clairefontaine

Nonoperational wrote: »

Christ, I'm out of school a few years, but many's the time I had to sweep the yard or the classroom for being a cheeky little brat. My parents' reaction would be to stop messing and cop on. Thank God they didn't come into the school and make a scene over it.

So did I. But I was never made to get on my hands and knees to do it.

And just because we were made to go through it doesn't make it ok. There was plenty of inappropriate disciplinary measures taken back then too. Just as there are today.

seavill

clairefontaine wrote: »

It might be for you, but it might be a detail that they neglected to include first time around. It doesn't mean they are lying.

Also as for calling other parents and getting them involved. I have two things to say to that.

I don't have the phone numbers of other parents myself, so I can't do that. It's a non issue for me, and secondly I am very direct and like to deal with my relationships myself and same for my child's.

But either way, I'm not going to judge the credibility of what others say based on the actions that I would take, we are not the same people nor do we have the same children or lives.

That's very true but you asked me two questions I answered them honestly. You don't agree with me which is fair enough but I'm not sure what else I can say. Questions asked and answered

clairefontaine

seavill wrote: »

Christ.

Look. The last poster and I could interpret it as threatening as opposed to an actual threat.

The teacher must have felt the same way.

You may not agree.

The op may be more careful next time choosing her words just in case it comes across in a way set didn't intend

And what... Does that invalidate the questionable disciplinary action taken on her child BEFORE she talked to the principal?

Insect Overlord

clairefontaine wrote: »

And what... Does that invalidate the questionable disciplinary action taken on her child BEFORE she talked to the principal?

What's so questionable about it?

paleo muinteoir

I have to admit, I'm inclined to agree with seavill in terms of the validity / credibility of the latest set of 'facts'.
If the predominant issue is the fact that her child was humiliated, then why was this not even mentioned in her initial post.

To my mind, the feedback received in general here wasn't the 'oh poor you, you're dead right' that she had envisaged / expected and so the story had to be fleshed out and added to in order for her to claw back some respect.

Hasn't worked out that way - I suggest we all move on!

Hank Scorpio

In a confrontational situation where heat is high and aggression shown saying mrxxx will be here to see you is a threatening choice of words, anyone who thinks differently isn't living in the real world.

I remember my friend being pulled by the ear and showed off his bad haircut in front off each class by the principle in 6th class.Im in my mid 20s now so it wasn't that long ago.Think he would have preferred to pick up a few crisps off the carpet.

Stop overreacting, kids need to be disciplined, by being overprotective you're doing more harm than good and end up being "the crazy mom" to his peers

systemicrisk

Hi Guys, Lets leave aside all the interaction between parents, teacher and principal. Assuming the teacher did punish the child by making him go down on his hands and knees and clean under his desk and then try to make him do the same around every other students desk, what is your opinion of the appropriateness of this as a punishment.

My own opinion is that this is wrong. I believe it would be very embarrassing for a child (or anyone) to crawl around on the ground picking up crumbs in front of their peers and embarrassment is not the goal of punishment.

Hank Scorpio

systemicrisk wrote: »

Hi Guys, Lets leave aside all the interaction between parents, teacher and principal. Assuming the teacher did punish the child by making him go down on his hands and knees and clean under his desk and then try to make him do the same around every other students desk, what is your opinion of the appropriateness of this as a punishment.

My own opinion is that this is wrong. I believe it would be very embarrassing for a child (or anyone) to crawl around on the ground picking up crumbs in front of their peers and embarrassment is not the goal of punishment.

The only reason I posted in this thread was cause I couldn't believe the overreaction. "clean up under all the desks today as your punishment"

ohhh the humiliation! I bet his friends will jeer him for it years from now

byhookorbycrook

If giving an essay and talking to a child or asking them to do something like clean up is abusive, would anyone here like to elaborate on what they consider "acceptable discipline?"

Trevor Cortez Zambrano

Trevor, please do attempt to correct a poster's spelling.

jonny99

OP:

The school will have a Code of behaviour.
This should be made available to you on request.
This will list appropriate sanctions.
If such a sanction, or what can be interpreted as this sanction is included,then they are within their rights to impose such a sanction.If not, then they shouldnt.

Thats it really.
Simples.

Now what Present are you gonna get that Teacher for Christmas?

WhatNowForUs?

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

If giving an essay and talking to a child or asking them to do something like clean up is abusive, would anyone here like to elaborate on what they consider "acceptable discipline?"

That's acceptable, I don't think anybody said it wasn't.

If shouting at a child until he cries and making him get on his hands and knees to clean up in front of a class is acceptable discipline what is the line of unacceptable discipline?

clairefontaine

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

If giving an essay and talking to a child or asking them to do something like clean up is abusive, would anyone here like to elaborate on what they consider "acceptable discipline?"

Discipline for talking in class?

Ask them to stop politely.

If they don't stop, then ask them to sit at another desk and put their dead down, like having a nap.

If that doesn't work then get sent to the principals office.

Being asked to clean up is not abusive in many contexts, in this context it most certainly was.

clairefontaine

WhatNowForUs? wrote: »

That's acceptable, I don't think anybody said it wasn't.

If shouting at a child until he cries and making him get on his hands and knees to clean up in front of a class is acceptable discipline what is the line of unacceptable discipline?

If my teacher told me to do that, I'd request to see a copy of the standards of discipline and the signature where my parent signed it.

spurious

Was the child not asked originally to do an essay as punsihment?

From what I can see, it was the failure to complete the initial punishment that caused all the later nonsense.

Again, I ask the (second) OP, did you tell the child not to do the punishment essay?

seavill

clairefontaine wrote: »

Discipline for talking in class?

Ask them to stop politely.

If they don't stop, then ask them to sit at another desk and put their dead down, like having a nap.

If that doesn't work then get sent to the principals office.

Being asked to clean up is not abusive in many contexts, in this context it most certainly was.

Sitting at another desk - few points, I know in my school we are bursting at the seems in a standard calss there isnt a free desk. Rewarding bad behaviour by getting them to have a nap (I know you don't actually mean sleep but you know what I'm saying). I can guarantee you will get a parent in giving out that you are denying their son an education by excluding him from the class like that (I have seen that actually happen), also what if he won't put his head down.

In smaller primary schools the teacehr is a teaching principal, no principal's office to send to, you cannot let a child that is in trouble out to wander around presuming he will go to the princpal, if he doesn't and gets hurt you are responsible, you can't bring him because you can't leave your class alone.

If you think there is any teacher out there that doesn't try a couple of strategies first before going to a sanction you are mistaken.

Usually, it is asking to be quiet, standing close to them to encourage them to stop, having a quiet word, maybe having a quiet word outside the door, asking again, punishment of some sort, writing a note home/threatening to ring home.
Your sanctions are not suitable in the real world, all well and good to say yea do x,y, z until you are in the real world dealing with it.

Back to the posters that said presuming the story is true, all I will say is you may be presuming a lot by doing that.

moc moc a moc

Wickerman1 wrote: »

Ya it's so much better just to humiliate a child instead of physically beating them :rolleyes:

Are you trying to say making a child clean a floor is as bad as physically beating them?!?

I want some of whatever you're smoking.

WhatNowForUs?

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Are you trying to say making a child clean a floor is as bad as physically beating them?!?

I want some of whatever you're smoking.

Depends on the child I suppose. Some children would come out better from a physical beating then a mental humiliation, I know I would, and I did but maybe if we have a child psychotherapist on here they may shed more light on the subject.

So what should happen is neither of the above should occur. The child should not be subjected to humiliation and should not be physically beaten particularly in primary school where he or she would not have the physicality or the necessary vocabulary or wit to defend themselves under those circumstances.

seavill

WhatNowForUs? wrote: »

Depends on the child I suppose. Some children would come out better from a physical beating then a mental humiliation, I know I would, and I did but maybe if we have a child psychotherapist on here they may shed more light on the subject.

So what should happen is neither of the above should occur. The child should not be subjected to humiliation and should not be physically beaten particularly in primary school where he or she would not have the physicality or the necessary vocabulary or wit to defend themselves under those circumstances.

Right thats me finished we are now talking about physical beating in primary school, as made up as some posts were here, now its getting ridiculous

Big Bag of Chips

WhatNowForUs? wrote: »

and making him get on his hands and knees to clean up in front of a class

I might have missed it, and I have no intention of going back to try find it, but seeing as it has been mentioned now a few times, I don't think the OP, mentions anywhere that he was asked to get on his hands and knees in front of the rest of the class. I think people have added legs to the "abuse" suffered by the child.

I'd imagine if he was asked to "clean the floor" like originally said by the (2nd) OP, then it was to stay back at break time, with the other boy to tidy the floor, when his friends had left the room to go out and play.

Also, the OP (2nd OP) added much later that he was asked to get down on his hands and knees. I would also doubt this. If this is how the punishment was put to the child, why was it not the first thing mentioned? The teacher may have asked him to pick up some stuff from the floor, but there are other ways of bending down without "crawling on his hands and knees". I agree with the poster who said the punishment seemed to get more severe each time it was posted about... And then had other posters embellish it even more!

Fact is, child was asked to clean the floor. He picked up his own stuff, but then refused to clean the rest (so it wasn't too humiliating to pick up his own rubbish.. just other people's?) Teacher gave him an essay for refusing to do what was originally asked as his punishment, so he went home, and mam told him he didn't have to do the essay either. And 2 months later it still appears to be an issue.

I'm glad I only fleetingly considered primary teaching as a career option!

Spud19

Boskowski wrote: »

Thinking the same thing here.
Now I have no kids myself but teachers in the family and while not accusing the OP here (although the username speaks volumes) parents are a nightmare these days. Nothing but attitude and my precious little darlings.
Of course its never their prodigal kids fault and how dare the teachers trying to maintain some sort of discipline in the classroom. :rolleyes:

Look OP he got a good talking to. What would classroom discipline come to if teachers couldn't even do that anymore?
And even if he didn't do it (whatever it was) you weren't there and depend on the word of an 11 year old. Of course he's your prodigal son and wouldn't ever lie to you :rolleyes: but he got a talking to this time and probably got away on other occasions and such is life.

What are you even trying to say when you're saying 'is he even allowed to be alone with my son like this'? I know you're probably angry but its that kind of shoite talk that starts to turn this society into a fkn nightmare for everyone. What are you even hinting at with that comment? Thats totally out of order, think about it.

Brilliant comment! Who is the most important child in the world? The parent's child you're talking to! Some parents just have no idea what it could be like to deal with 30 pupils at one time, trying to teach them the curriculum.
I have a particular child in my class who is very slow to do his work. Recently a parent complained me to the principle for putting an egg timer on his table to focus his attention as it "singled him out". Ridiculous in my opinion