Motorway - M1 Mass Stop and Checks

listermint · 12-12-2013 11:34am #1

Hi Guys,

Just looking to seek views and opinions on the large scale stop and check that was in operation on the M1 yesterday afternoon / evening.

These are the stats that were released after the excercise

- 3 vehicles were found to be over the speed limit out of 1,730 checked over a 3-hour period at Feltrim, Malahide Road, Dublin,.

-1 detection was recorded during at a Mandatory Alcohol Testing checkpoint which tested 200 drivers over 1 hour on the M1 Motorway at Swords, County Dublin.

Myself i belief that this PR exercise was a horrendous safety breach, I dont generally drive that stretch of motorway but i fully understand its probably one of the busiest stretches in the country.

Having driven throughout Europe i have never seen such a stop and search scheme dreamt up there. Frankly i am perplexed how there was not a significant safety Risk Assessment Carried out on this, as if it was good enough to lash up a few roadworks barriers and funnel traffic into a complete stop. The consequences of this balloon across the motorway network.

Very disappointing.

Dingatron · 12-12-2013 11:44am

I was heading Northbound yesterday and it caused mayhem both North with rubberneckers and Southbound with the actual checkpoint. I came around a bend to meet break lights and had to put my hazards on. I travel that road daily and it's a very busy spot at that time of the day. I've no problem with any of these checks as they keep us all honest but in this instance it had total disregard for safety IMO.

listermint · 12-12-2013 11:47am

Dingatron wrote: »

I was heading Northbound yesterday and it caused mayhem both North with rubberneckers and Southbound with the actual checkpoint. I came around a bend to meet break lights and had to put my hazards on. I travel that road daily and it's a very busy spot at that time of the day. I've no problem with any of these checks as they keep us all honest but in this instance it had total disregard for safety IMO.

I dont have issues with Checks, But not on a Motorway. There are safer areas to conduct this sort of setup. The M1 isnt one of them, and from the looks of it achieved nothing of significance.

12-12-2013 12:49pm

listermint wrote: »

I dont have issues with Checks, But not on a Motorway. There are safer areas to conduct this sort of setup. The M1 isnt one of them, and from the looks of it achieved nothing of significance.

It took a drink driver off the road.

Ireland is one of the few countries that actually carry out checkpoints on the roads. With any location selected the safety of motorists and the members conducting it.

From the pictures it looked well laid out with plenty of warning signs. It also looks like it was carried out at a lay-by so there should be adequate space before and after.

As for rubber necking? That's just an example of Ireland's sh1te driving standards.

listermint · 12-12-2013 12:59pm

foreign wrote: »

It took a drink driver off the road.

Ireland is one of the few countries that actually carry out checkpoints on the roads. With any location selected the safety of motorists and the members conducting it.

From the pictures it looked well laid out with plenty of warning signs. It also looks like it was carried out at a lay-by so there should be adequate space before and after.

As for rubber necking? That's just an example of Ireland's sh1te driving standards.

Do we know how many incidents it caused across the network ? Ive seen reports of rear ends occuring each way on the M50.

1 Drink driver is hardly an incredibly catch now for an operation of this sheer scale. So i think thats to be waved around as a success.

And if you want to discuss driving standards prevention is better than cure. The testing system here is laughable. I dont think its up to the Guards to cure that. But surely adding to it is hairbrained.

lighterman · 12-12-2013 1:09pm

Dingatron wrote: »

I was heading Northbound yesterday and it caused mayhem both North with rubberneckers and Southbound with the actual checkpoint. I came around a bend to meet break lights and had to put my hazards on. I travel that road daily and it's a very busy spot at that time of the day. I've no problem with any of these checks as they keep us all honest but in this instance it had total disregard for safety IMO.

I'd love to know why people put on the hazard lights. Is the brake lights or a stationary car not enough

msg11 · 12-12-2013 1:13pm

lighterman wrote: »

I'd love to know why people put on the hazard lights. Is the brake lights or a stationary car not enough

It's to warn people behind to slow down as there is a hazard ahead.

aujopimur · 12-12-2013 1:15pm

I thought I'd seen it all with the cop standing on the M8 hard shoulder doing speedchecks, but this is bigger Garda bullsiht.

lighterman · 12-12-2013 1:16pm

foreign wrote: »

It took a drink driver off the road.

Ireland is one of the few countries that actually carry out checkpoints on the roads. With any location selected the safety of motorists and the members conducting it.

From the pictures it looked well laid out with plenty of warning signs. It also looks like it was carried out at a lay-by so there should be adequate space before and after.

As for rubber necking? That's just an example of Ireland's sh1te driving standards.

so there is only a few countries that do checkpoints. Will ya go back to your other site.

If the standard of driving is ****e here Why add a checkpoint on a road where cars are traveling at 120kph.

lighterman · 12-12-2013 1:39pm

msg11 wrote: »

It's to warn people behind to slow down as there is a hazard ahead.

I would hope they slow down when they see a stationary vehicle in front of them or even slow down when they see brake lights coming on

12-12-2013 1:57pm

listermint wrote: »

Do we know how many incidents it caused across the network ? Ive seen reports of rear ends occuring each way on the M50.

1 Drink driver is hardly an incredibly catch now for an operation of this sheer scale. So i think thats to be waved around as a success.

And if you want to discuss driving standards prevention is better than cure. The testing system here is laughable. I dont think its up to the Guards to cure that. But surely adding to it is hairbrained.

There are collisions every day on the M50, nothing to do with Garda actions.

Also, how is one drink driver in the middle of the day on a busy motorway not a success?

whomitconcerns · 12-12-2013 2:00pm

lighterman wrote: »

I would hope they slow down when they see a stationary vehicle in front of them or even slow down when they see brake lights coming on

Standard prcatice throughut europe to use hazard lights to warn of a hazard..

Brake lights could be just a bad driver..depending on how the person following chooses to interpret.

If i see hazard lights I assume there is a hazard somewhere!

12-12-2013 2:08pm

lighterman wrote: »

If the standard of driving is ****e here Why add a checkpoint on a road where cars are traveling at 120kph.

Why have them on a 50k or a 60k etc?

POGAN · 12-12-2013 2:43pm

lighterman wrote: »

so there is only a few countries that do checkpoints. Will ya go back to your other site.

If the standard of driving is ****e here Why add a checkpoint on a road where cars are traveling at 120kph.

I agree with foregin it was layout very well. 1 drink driver off the road was worth it he could of killed untold amount people with crash at 120km

There motorway checkpoints on m50 to be fair criminals travel

More checkpoints please

bravestar · 12-12-2013 3:14pm

Shame on AGS for doing their jobs! It's a real disgrace when people do what they are paid to do.

As for the 1 drink driver, sure that's potentially at least 1 other persons life saved, who would possibly care about that.

Scouser · 12-12-2013 3:59pm

listermint wrote: »

1 Drink driver is hardly an incredibly catch now

1 single drunk driver could wipe out a family

what if that was your family?

listermint · 12-12-2013 4:03pm

1 Drunk Driver ! killing families ?

What about putting a road block across one of the largest motorways in the country, about the untold accidents that can cause.

Im perplexed by the attitudes that are in here tbh from the members of the service. It would seem that unprofessionalism is rife in the traffic corp if they believe blocking a motorway in the middle of the day/evening is acceptable policing.

This sort of action just would not fly across the water

Scouser · 12-12-2013 4:12pm

listermint wrote: »

1 Drunk Driver ! killing families ?

What about putting a road block across one of the largest motorways in the country, about the untold accidents that can cause.

Im perplexed by the attitudes that are in here tbh from the members of the service. It would seem that unprofessionalism is rife in the traffic corp if they believe blocking a motorway in the middle of the day/evening is acceptable policing.

This sort of action just would not fly across the water

how many accidents did it cause?

yes drunk drives have a tendency to cause crashes

crashes have a tendency to claim lives

listermint · 12-12-2013 4:14pm

Scouser wrote: »

how many accidents did it cause?

yes drunk drives have a tendency to cause crashes

crashes have a tendency to claim lives

Thats like saying how many accidents did the drunk driver cause ?

Sillyness.

Two wrongs dont make a right.

This whole thing was ill conceived and should have been either at the on / off ramps or on National Roads. Not on a 120Kmph motorway. There is no justification for this and road safety alone should have been reason enough not to do it.

12-12-2013 4:24pm

listermint wrote: »

Thats like saying how many accidents did the drunk driver cause ? Sillyness.

Two wrongs dont make a right.

This whole thing was ill conceived and should have been either at the on / off ramps or on National Roads. Not on a 120Kmph motorway. There is no justification for this and road safety alone should have been reason enough not to do it.

Again the arrest of a drink driver is justification enoungh. What about cars with no tax / insurance? Dangerous and defective vehicles?

If you did it at on / off ramps people can see them and turn off. On the motorway the is nowhere to go.

And as said in another post, how many collisions occurred at this checkpoint? I haven't heard of any.

Scouser · 12-12-2013 4:28pm

listermint wrote: »

Thats like saying how many accidents did the drunk driver cause ? Sillyness.

he didnt cause any - he was taken of the road!!

crime prevention

im very thankful that the gards on that checkpoint detected it. they should be commended

i was on that stretch of road yesterday and im glad i got home in one piece

listermint · 12-12-2013 4:33pm

foreign wrote: »

Again the arrest of a drink driver is justification enoungh. What about cars with no tax / insurance? Dangerous and defective vehicles?

If you did it at on / off ramps people can see them and turn off. On the motorway the is nowhere to go.

And as said in another post, how many collisions occurred at this checkpoint? I haven't heard of any.

The collisions occured kms away from it because of the mess it caused. Tax is all this was about lets not dance around the subject. Its revenue gaining.

None of this would be necessary of the Private Speed Vans where picking up non NCT and non Tax vehicles.

Complete PR mess is all it was. A photo opportunity for top brass. It would be money better spent with a Zero Tolerance to Crime in the center of Dublin City. I see another young man was near fatally stabbed on the Capitals thoroughfare yesterday. Mean while we have about 50 Guards involved in blockading people on a "motorway" of all places.

Brain Drain in Phoenix park it would appear.

JillyQ · 12-12-2013 4:43pm

I came upon one of these checkpoints on the m18 (big difference to the m50/m1 I know) they had us pulled in to one of the rest stops. Two guards directing us in and another Four in the rest stop full check done insurance, tax, licence & breathalyser. Two cars infront if me seemed to have something wrong as they were held there after me. I have no problem with check points but I can understand the frustration it would cause on a busy motorway I was only held up for a maximum of 10 mins .

donvito99 · 12-12-2013 5:34pm

Well at least the however many thousands caught up in this have it in their heads that the Guards are out there this Christmas.

It's been a crap year on the roads.

Cliona99 · 13-12-2013 2:49am

No opinion on safe/unsafe question but ;they breath tested 200 drivers in one hour! Fair play to them for efficiency.

Secondly, as an extremely anxious driver who avoids motorways like the plague....I find the stats released VERY reassuring.

(yes, I KNOW they're the safest roads, and I KNOW.my fear is irrational, thanks. So please, save your...eh...data allowance. E-breath?)

13-12-2013 8:13am

listermint wrote: »

The collisions occured kms away from it because of the mess it caused. Tax is all this was about lets not dance around the subject. Its revenue gaining.

None of this would be necessary of the Private Speed Vans where picking up non NCT and non Tax vehicles.

Complete PR mess is all it was. A photo opportunity for top brass. It would be money better spent with a Zero Tolerance to Crime in the center of Dublin City. I see another young man was near fatally stabbed on the Capitals thoroughfare yesterday. Mean while we have about 50 Guards involved in blockading people on a "motorway" of all places.

Brain Drain in Phoenix park it would appear.

Have you evidence that the collisions were caused by the checkpoint? How far past the M50 was the checkpoint? Even if it did occur near the checkpoint it still falls down to driver error not leaving enough room to react.

Cameras in vans can't detect if a vehicle with no NCT is not road worthy, likewise it can't take a car off the road for no insurance.

And the checkpoint was mannd by Traffic Corp members, not Store Street members so the poor victim would still have been stabbed if the checkpoint didn't take place.

POGAN · 13-12-2013 9:42am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Have you evidence that the collisions were caused by the checkpoint? How far past the M50 was the checkpoint? Even if it did occur near the checkpoint it still falls down to driver error not leaving enough room to react.

Cameras in vans can't detect if a vehicle with no NCT is not road worthy, likewise it can't take a car off the road for no insurance.

And the checkpoint was mannd by Traffic Corp members, not Store Street members so the poor victim would still have been stabbed if the checkpoint didn't take place.

Anpr mondeo from the castle parked before the checkpoint checking regs

Very well planned operation

lighterman · 13-12-2013 11:41am

foreign wrote: »

Have you evidence that the collisions were caused by the checkpoint? How far past the M50 was the checkpoint? Even if it did occur near the checkpoint it still falls down to driver error not leaving enough room to react.

Cameras in vans can't detect if a vehicle with no NCT is not road worthy, likewise it can't take a car off the road for no insurance.

And the checkpoint was mannd by Traffic Corp members, not Store Street members so the poor victim would still have been stabbed if the checkpoint didn't take place.

Charlie members were also present. There's more to traffic than regional

13-12-2013 12:53pm

lighterman wrote: »

Charlie members were also present. There's more to traffic than regional

Divisional traffic members. Not the ones who would be carrying out regular policing.

RustyNut · 13-12-2013 1:36pm

foreign wrote: »

As for rubber necking? That's just an example of Ireland's sh1te driving standards.

Which is directly proportional to Irelands sh1te road policing standards.

lighterman · 13-12-2013 2:14pm

foreign wrote: »

Divisional traffic members. Not the ones who would be carrying out regular policing.

Stationed in ........

store street?

13-12-2013 6:07pm

RustyNut wrote: »

Which is directly proportional to Irelands sh1te road policing standards.

We'll you're probably familiar with what the chairman of the RSA has been saying recently.

13-12-2013 6:08pm

lighterman wrote: »

Stationed in ........

store street?

Do you understand the different roles different sections do or are you looking to troll?

bravestar · 13-12-2013 6:12pm

lighterman wrote: »

Stationed in ........

store street?

Who cares where they are stationed. They are traffic, not mules on a regular unit, so the policing of store street with regard to regular crime remains unchanged.

goldie fish · 13-12-2013 11:57pm

I think this photo shows clearly how safe the operation was carried out, in line with best practice.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gardasiochana/11351410894/

Zambia · 14-12-2013 12:00am

It's necessary to counter the thinking in people's minds that some roads are immune to checkpoints.

lighterman · 14-12-2013 12:01am

lighterman wrote: »

Charlie members were also present. There's more to traffic than regional

foreign wrote: »

Do you understand the different roles different sections do or are you looking to troll?

foreign wrote: »

Have you evidence that the collisions were caused by the checkpoint? How far past the M50 was the checkpoint? Even if it did occur near the checkpoint it still falls down to driver error not leaving enough room to react.

Cameras in vans can't detect if a vehicle with no NCT is not road worthy, likewise it can't take a car off the road for no insurance.

And the checkpoint was mannd by Traffic Corp members, not Store Street members so the poor victim would still have been stabbed if the checkpoint didn't take place.

bravestar wrote: »

Who cares where they are stationed. They are traffic, not mules on a regular unit, so the policing of store street with regard to regular crime remains unchanged.

just making a counter point to a statement made

Mr.Fred · 14-12-2013 12:10am

Just curious but does anybody know if the driver who blew over the limit was actually over the limit when tested at the station and if so was he charged.

I think it was all a PR stunt but it also created a hazard on a major traffic route. I'd say smaller local check points are more effective if they're targeting drink drivers. They were obviously targeting tax dodgers and media considering the time of the check point.

Zambia · 14-12-2013 12:48am

Mr.Fred wrote: »

Just curious but does anybody know if the driver who blew over the limit was actually over the limit when tested at the station and if so was he charged.

I think it was all a PR stunt but it also created a hazard on a major traffic route. I'd say smaller local check points are more effective if they're targeting drink drivers. They were obviously targeting tax dodgers and media considering the time of the check point.

If it gets the message out what's the harm.

If you can't stop for a clearly set up checkpoint you should not be on the road.

Mr.Fred · 14-12-2013 1:16am

Zambia wrote: »

If you can't stop for a clearly set up checkpoint you should not be on the road.

Lets not be stupid now.

Yes a clearly set up check point is one thing. How far back behind the first sign did the tail backs stretch. Generally you wouldn't expect stationary traffic on a motorway outside of peak hours.

Zambia · 14-12-2013 1:29am

Mr.Fred wrote: »

Lets not be stupid now.

Yes a clearly set up check point is one thing. How far back behind the first sign did the tail backs stretch. Generally you wouldn't expect stationary traffic on a motorway outside of peak hours.

There is nothing stupid about it as cars approach a hazard they should slow and come to a stop if required. Nobody should be coming to a sudden stop.

Sure it's preferable to let traffic flow but theses checks have to happen. Just like road works delay traffic in order to keep the road safe in future.

If the resulting media lets people know they could find a checkpoint on the motorway the end result is worth the risk.

14-12-2013 9:17am

Mr.Fred wrote: »

Just curious but does anybody know if the driver who blew over the limit was actually over the limit when tested at the station and if so was he charged.

I think it was all a PR stunt but it also created a hazard on a major traffic route. I'd say smaller local check points are more effective if they're targeting drink drivers. They were obviously targeting tax dodgers and media considering the time of the check point.

Could have done Blood/Urine in the station so could take a few weeks to find that one out.

Regards the PR, what's the harm in informing the public that the Gardaí are now going to be carrying out checkpoints on motorways? If it deters more people from drink driving then is that not a good thing?

And re local checkpoints being more effective, if that was the case we'd never get drink drivers on them as people should be wary of them by now.

Mr.Fred wrote: »

Lets not be stupid now.

Yes a clearly set up check point is one thing. How far back behind the first sign did the tail backs stretch. Generally you wouldn't expect stationary traffic on a motorway outside of peak hours.

Looks like the tailback only went back to J4. And while a tailback may not be expected you should still be able to react to what you see in front.

https://twitter.com/aaroadwatch/status/410776972462002176

@ listermint, I've had a look at the AA Roadwatch Twitter feed and no reports of collisions on the M50 at the time of the checkpoint. So, would you care to present evidence of these collisions and if they did occur then explain how the checkpoint caused them?

Mr.Fred · 14-12-2013 9:29am

Zambia wrote: »

There is nothing stupid about it as cars approach a hazard they should slow and come to a stop if required. Nobody should be coming to a sudden stop.

Remind me again then. How then how it is so many accidents/rear enders happen..

Oh yeah perhaps it was something about them not expecting a sudden stop or hazard on a MOTORWAY!!

Zambia wrote: »

Sure it's preferable to let traffic flow but theses checks have to happen. Just like road works delay traffic in order to keep the road safe in future.

I'd accept that but for the fact that it wasn't very effective. I'd like to see what would happen if they put one of these checkpoints on the M1 (north) or M7 (south) on a Fri evening.

I'm all for check points and I abhor drink drivers. There's a time and place for these though and there'd also be more effective places to set these up if they're looking to take drink drivers off the road.

POGAN · 14-12-2013 9:36am

Here the reason for checkpoint they lead to a lot more than tax & insurance this was check on the motorway too

A man and woman are currently in police custody after Gardai seized €40,000 worth of cannabis on a motorway checkpoint.

At approximately 8pm last night, a vehicle search was conducted on the N7 led to the marijuana discovery.

The man, in his late 30s and woman, in her mid-20s, were arrested at the scene by members of the traffic unit at Blanchardstown.

They are being detained at Ballyfermot Garda Station under of Section 2 of the Criminal Justice (Drug Trafficking) Act 1996.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-seize-40k-worth-of-cannabis-during-routine-checkpoint-29838362.html

14-12-2013 10:02am

Mr.Fred wrote: »

Remind me again then. How then how it is so many accidents/rear enders happen..

Oh yeah perhaps it was something about them not expecting a sudden stop or hazard on a MOTORWAY!!

Or driving too close to the car in front to react to a change in traffic. I have still to see evidence of any collision caused by this checkpoint.

Mr.Fred wrote: »

I'd accept that but for the fact that it wasn't very effective. I'd like to see what would happen if they put one of these checkpoints on the M1 (north) or M7 (south) on a Fri evening.

I'm all for check points and I abhor drink drivers. There's a time and place for these though and there'd also be more effective places to set these up if they're looking to take drink drivers off the road.

So, where and when should they be carried out? Remember, a drink driver was taken off the road from this one.

stoneill · 14-12-2013 10:13am

Here's my thoughts.
Garda in general do a fantastic job.

But this was a publicity stunt, (as per their fackbook page) and from all the negative feedback, not a great success either.
A motorway is not a place for checkpoints such as this, there are plenty of feeder roads, dual carriage ways, main roads, R roads and main streets around that would have been better to place a checkpoint.
All that money, and all those resources and they got 1 person over the limit?
If they really really want to catch drink drivers, just go to any pub car park - if they really really want to catch tax dodgers just go to any major retail car park, if they really really want to catch speeders, just go to any stretch of straight road and hang about for 10 mins.

Hootanany · 14-12-2013 10:20am

I would do a random drug test on who thought of this scheme?

lighterman · 14-12-2013 10:26am

POGAN wrote: »

Here the reason for checkpoint they lead to a lot more than tax & insurance this was check on the motorway too

A man and woman are currently in police custody after Gardai seized €40,000 worth of cannabis on a motorway checkpoint.

At approximately 8pm last night, a vehicle search was conducted on the N7 led to the marijuana discovery.

The man, in his late 30s and woman, in her mid-20s, were arrested at the scene by members of the traffic unit at Blanchardstown.

They are being detained at Ballyfermot Garda Station under of Section 2 of the Criminal Justice (Drug Trafficking) Act 1996.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-seize-40k-worth-of-cannabis-during-routine-checkpoint-29838362.html

Im fairly sure there is no motorway on the N7 within the DMR so I cant see how blanch traffic were on a motorway

goldie fish · 14-12-2013 12:23pm

Hootanany wrote: »

I would do a random drug test on who thought of this scheme?

Then it isn't a random drug test.

Mr.Fred · 14-12-2013 12:36pm

foreign wrote: »

So, where and when should they be carried out? Remember, a drink driver was taken off the road from this one.

They could be easily carried out at the off ramps where traffic would be expecting to slow down or seeing as how it was on the M1 why not at the toll plaza(perhaps this was to far for the media to be expected to travel?). It was entirely ridiculous placing a check point on a motorway.

Zambia · 14-12-2013 1:47pm

Mr.Fred wrote: »

Remind me again then. How then how it is so many accidents/rear enders happen..

Oh yeah perhaps it was something about them not expecting a sudden stop or hazard on a MOTORWAY!!

So many rear enders happen due to lack of attention and failure to leave a sufficient distance between the vehicle in front.

Only a fool breaks the three second rule.

Mr.Fred wrote: »

I'd accept that but for the fact that it wasn't very effective. I'd like to see what would happen if they put one of these checkpoints on the M1 (north) or M7 (south) on a Fri evening.

It is effective this very thread proves it, there has been pages of discussion on it.

The Police can not be everywhere they are the chance of of penalty not the assurance. If one checkpoint catches 10 drink drivers and no one knows about it then only those 10 people learn the lesson.

If you catch 1 person and 1000's hear about it the benefit is far greater.

Motorway - M1 Mass Stop and Checks

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