Motorway - M1 Mass Stop and Checks

Mr.Fred

Mr.Fred wrote: »

They could be easily carried out at the off ramps where traffic would be expecting to slow down or seeing as how it was on the M1 why not at the toll plaza(perhaps this was to far for the media to be expected to travel?). It was entirely ridiculous placing a check point on a motorway.

No safe place on an off ramp to pull cars over and you would have cars backing down onto the motorway. Also easily skipped by someone who wants to avoid it.

lighterman

lighterman wrote: »

Im fairly sure there is no motorway on the N7 within the DMR so I cant see how blanch traffic were on a motorway

The N7 covered by blanch would mostly be three lane 100k limit.

Mr.Fred

Zambia wrote: »

So many rear enders happen due to lack of attention and failure to leave a sufficient distance between the vehicle in front.

Only a fool breaks the three second rule.

Yes and there are plenty of fools out there. The thoughts of someone being rear ended by some fool going 120+ are scary enough.

It may never happen but they created a scenario that increased the potential of it happening and imo that's incompetent.

Zambia wrote: »

It is effective this very thread proves it, there has been pages of discussion on it.

The Police can not be everywhere they are the chance of of penalty not the assurance. If one checkpoint catches 10 drink drivers and no one knows about it then only those 10 people learn the lesson.

If you catch 1 person and 1000's hear about it the benefit is far greater.

Yes as a publicity stunt I'm not denying it was a success but as a check point I bet they'd have caught more individuals breaking the law outside a primary school on any given afternoon.

As for the drink driver does anybody know if he was actually over the limit on the more accurate machine at the station? who's to say it wasn't an elaborate part of their PR stunt to high light drink driving over the christmas period. There certainly seemed to be a large number of cameras on hand to take his photo.

lighterman

Mr.Fred wrote: »

Yes and there are plenty of fools out there. The thoughts of someone being rear ended by some fool going 120+ are scary enough.

It may never happen but they created a scenario that increased the potential of it happening and imo that's incompetent.



Yes as a publicity stunt I'm not denying it was a success but as a check point I bet they'd have caught more individuals breaking the law outside a primary school on any given afternoon.

As for the drink driver does anybody know if he was actually over the limit on the more accurate machine at the station? who's to say it wasn't an elaborate part of their PR stunt to high light drink driving over the christmas period. There certainly seemed to be a large number of cameras on hand to take his photo.

We are arguing for the same team here but I don't think the drivers photo was taken. There was a photo of a random motorist that was breathalysed

Zambia

lighterman wrote: »

We are arguing for the same team here but I don't think the drivers photo was taken. There was a photo of a random motorist that was breathalysed

Who cares if no one was caught

Just because there is a checkpoint is does not mean there will be a drink driver to drive into it

lighterman

Zambia wrote: »

Who cares if no one was caught

Just because there is a checkpoint is does not mean there will be a drink driver to drive into it

If you could highlight where I stated where no one was caught.
If your going to debate my comments please read them first.

Zambia

lighterman wrote: »

If you could highlight where I stated where no one was caught.
If your going to debate my comments please read them first.

I said it makes no difference if no one was caught

bravestar

It's always a good laugh to see people, with no clue about policing, offer their ill informed opinions and then try to defend them.

I wonder, do these same people tell their surgeon, dentist, doctor, plumber, electrician, bin man, teacher or driving instructor how to do their jobs.

lighterman

bravestar wrote: »

It's always a good laugh to see people, with no clue about policing, offer their ill informed opinions and then try to defend them.

I wonder, do these same people tell their surgeon, dentist, doctor, plumber, electrician, bin man, teacher or driving instructor how to do their jobs.

I'm sure they would if they are doing it wrong.

Mr Jinx

Mr.Fred wrote: »

Remind me again then. How then how it is so many accidents/rear enders happen..

Oh yeah perhaps it was something about them not expecting a sudden stop or hazard on a MOTORWAY!!




I'd accept that but for the fact that it wasn't very effective. I'd like to see what would happen if they put one of these checkpoints on the M1 (north) or M7 (south) on a Fri evening.

I'm all for check points and I abhor drink drivers. There's a time and place for these though and there'd also be more effective places to set these up if they're looking to take drink drivers off the road.

If there was a time and a place, then they could be easily avoided.

Mr.Fred

Mr Jinx wrote: »

If there was a time and a place, then they could be easily avoided.

Bless.

Clearly you've never heard that saying before :eek:

goldie fish

bravestar wrote: »

It's always a good laugh to see people, with no clue about policing, offer their ill informed opinions and then try to defend them.

I wonder, do these same people tell their surgeon, dentist, doctor, plumber, electrician, bin man, teacher or driving instructor how to do their jobs.

Here's another one in action.

http://youtu.be/Bwk38srACrA

bravestar

goldie fish wrote: »

Here's another one in action.

http://youtu.be/Bwk38srACrA

Classic, Nice to finally put a face on some of the people commenting on here

Iwannahurl

goldie fish wrote: »

I think this photo shows clearly how safe the operation was carried out, in line with best practice.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gardasiochana/11351410894/

That looks good to me!

POGAN

Iwannahurl wrote: »

That looks good to me!

Very safe

kravmaga

foreign wrote: »

There are collisions every day on the M50, nothing to do with Garda actions.

Also, how is one drink driver in the middle of the day on a busy motorway not a success?

Lets be honest here, the whole checkpoint was a Garda public relations excercise organised for the media.

Very poor results for the amount of resources put into the mass checkpoint on the M1. I use this road every day and the amount of vehicles passing me breaking the speed limit is collassal.

I have not seen any drink drive checkpoints on local roads in the run up to Xmas for the last 3 yrs in North County Dublin.

Garda resources should have been used in a more effective way.

Afterall intelligence lead policing is what they preach in the annual Policing plan.

donvito99

kravmaga wrote: »

Lets be honest here, the whole checkpoint was a Garda public relations excercise organised for the media.

Yes, agreed. A PR exercise is a good reason for a checkpoint, especially leading in to one of the most deadly times of year on the roads.

Very poor results for the amount of resources put into the mass checkpoint on the M1. I use this road every day and the amount of vehicles passing me breaking the speed limit is collassal.

How is a checkpoint of this nature meant to detect speeders? It was chockablock and down to a crawl??

I have not seen any drink drive checkpoints on local roads in the run up to Xmas for the last 3 yrs in North County Dublin.

So the Guards are not conducting checkpoints on the roads of North Dublin, fullstop. According to your anecdotal evidence.

Garda resources should have been used in a more effective way.

Like...?

Afterall intelligence lead policing is what they preach in the annual Policing plan.

Intelligence has nothing to do with NCT, insurance, tax, vehicle defects. Maybe prolific drink drivers and bank robbers, but not menial issues that this checkpoint was designed to address.

From the amount of discussion this PR exercise has garnered here and in the Motors forum, I'd say that the checkpoint was hugely successful.

kravmaga

kravmaga wrote: »

Lets be honest here, the whole checkpoint was a Garda public relations excercise organised for the media.

Very poor results for the amount of resources put into the mass checkpoint on the M1. I use this road every day and the amount of vehicles passing me breaking the speed limit is collassal.

I have not seen any drink drive checkpoints on local roads in the run up to Xmas for the last 3 yrs in North County Dublin.

Garda resources should have been used in a more effective way.

Afterall intelligence lead policing is what they preach in the annual Policing plan.

What is your feelings that some of these cars speeding by you are possibly under the influence of an intoxicant? Should something not be done about that?

While last weeks had the media in attendance it still did what it was supposed to do, catch people breaking the law. You could sit on a checkpoint for an hour every night and catch nothing but on another the first car could be a result.

Traffic Corp do plenty of checkpoints and speed checks, look at the twitter accounts for evidence.

Regular units do them too but sometimes calls get in the way.

AGS will never please everybody all of the time.

Bang Bang

Whether one believes this checkpoint was a publicity stunt, a downright nuisance or whatever, I would say that any person out there who has used the motorway network to avoid checkpoints in the past or any person who who has been considering using the motorways to avoid a road check will certainly think twice about it now. I guess you could also call it prophylactic policing, like treating an illness before it flares up as well as treating the current bug itself, so in my opinion, a job well done.

sdanseo

This was unsafe, ridiculous and a totally stupid PR stunt. They can't detect speeding (which is almost negligible as a sole cause of motorway accidents) or poor lane discipline (which I'd argue is the cause of MOST motorway accidents, directly or indirectly) through useless checks like this. Meanwhile, they block a major arterial route and cause mayhem.

Anyone who knows me on boards knows I'm a huge supporter of the Gardaí - hell I made the GR sticky - but this one was just. plain. stupid.

JillyQ

I saw an idiot yesterday stop in the centre lane of the m50 tring to get into to the left lane so I assume she could go off at the junction. She's lucky she didn't cause a major pile up. They are the sort of idiot's that need permanent bans.

JillyQ

I saw an idiot yesterday stop in the centre lane of the m50 tring to get into to the left lane so I assume she could go off at the junction. She's lucky she didn't cause a major pile up. They are the sort of idiot's that need permanent bans.

listermint

Bang Bang wrote: »

Whether one believes this checkpoint was a publicity stunt, a downright nuisance or whatever, I would say that any person out there who has used the motorway network to avoid checkpoints in the past or any person who who has been considering using the motorways to avoid a road check will certainly think twice about it now. I guess you could also call it prophylactic policing, like treating an illness before it flares up as well as treating the current bug itself, so in my opinion, a job well done.

Thats complete horse trash, considering people know well they would only ever pull this sort of stunt perhaps once maybe twice a year it will have absolutely ZERO bearing on the usual folks you speak about. This scheme will have no impact what so ever as im sure our friends in AGS are aware.

Due to the scale / cost / setup of such a PR exercise it will not be repeated many times because its a clear waste of resources, and the supposed people it was destined to catch never materialised and incidently wouldnt care one bit about such a checkpoint.


Complete waste of time for all involved including the AGS. Poor effort and poor waste of what we all know are very valuable resources that we dont have enough of to squander for photo ops.

Feisar

I'd like to know if the drink driver was gee eyed or over the legal limit to drive? A year ago, (or whenever the last time the limit was lowered) they may have been waved on their way but today they are an evil drink driver that's out to kill families.

Mr.Fred

Feisar wrote: »

I'd like to know if the drink driver was gee eyed or over the legal limit to drive? A year ago, (or whenever the last time the limit was lowered) they may have been waved on their way but today they are an evil drink driver that's out to kill families.

Personally I think there should be a zero tolerance on drink driving get rid of the limit all together and definitely get rid of the "Ah sure go on, don't do it again" attitude.

If you want to have a drink don't drive. Simple.

bravestar

Mr.Fred wrote: »

get rid of the "Ah sure go on, don't do it again" attitude.

Who has that attitude?

Feisar

Mr.Fred wrote: »

Personally I think there should be a zero tolerance on drink driving get rid of the limit all together and definitely get rid of the "Ah sure go on, don't do it again" attitude.

If you want to have a drink don't drive. Simple.

It was the fact that some people got all extreme as if lives were saved due to the drink driver being apprehended that I was commenting on. I don't have a blazé attitude to drink driving or road safety in general for that matter.

I also have issue with the term "morning after" after a good session I'd say I'd still be over the limit at four or five the evening after.

kravmaga

donvito99 wrote: »

Yes, agreed. A PR exercise is a good reason for a checkpoint, especially leading in to one of the most deadly times of year on the roads.



How is a checkpoint of this nature meant to detect speeders? It was chockablock and down to a crawl??



So the Guards are not conducting checkpoints on the roads of North Dublin, fullstop. According to your anecdotal evidence.

Like...?

Intelligence has nothing to do with NCT, insurance, tax, vehicle defects. Maybe prolific drink drivers and bank robbers, but not menial issues that this checkpoint was designed to address.

From the amount of discussion this PR exercise has garnered here and in the Motors forum, I'd say that the checkpoint was hugely successful.

I gave my opinion on the matter and you are entitled to yours also.

Do you live in North County Dublin? I do and have discussed the lack of overt high visual checkpoints in the run up to Xmas in my area.

I attend most of the joint policing committee meetings and have already given my feedback to the Super who attended.

For the sheer amount of resources put into the mass checkpoint, i.e. cost to AGS Vrs Metric analysis of Offences detected and prosecuted was very poor.

Zambia

kravmaga wrote: »

I gave my opinion on the matter and you are entitled to yours also.

Do you live in North County Dublin? I do and have discussed the lack of overt high visual checkpoints in the run up to Xmas in my area.

I attend most of the joint policing committee meetings and have already given my feedback to the Super who attended.

For the sheer amount of resources put into the mass checkpoint, i.e. cost to AGS Vrs Metric analysis of Offences detected and prosecuted was very poor.

However the media result has been fantastic in getting the message out.

kravmaga

kravmaga wrote: »

For the sheer amount of resources put into the mass checkpoint, i.e. cost to AGS Vrs Metric analysis of Offences detected and prosecuted was very poor.

It'll be a sad day when we how we police the roads is based on the cost of enforcement V potential results.

The Muppet

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It'll be a sad day when we how we police the roads is based on the cost of enforcement V potential results.

It's about getting maximum effect for the money spent. With well over 20 gardai used in this operation and only 1 suspected drink driver and a few seeders caught. You would have to think that a number of smaller checkpoints in strategic locations would have bee more effective from a law enforcement point of view

Of course that would not have recieved the national media exposure that the m1 checkpoint got which was obviously the purpose of the exercise

The Muppet

The Muppet wrote: »

It's about getting maximum effect for the money spent. With well over 20 gardai used in this operation and only 1 suspected drink driver and a few seeders caught. You would have to think that a number of smaller checkpoints in strategic locations would have bee more effective from a law enforcement point of view

Of course that would not have recieved the national media exposure that the m1 checkpoint got which was obviously the purpose of the exercise

What extra money was spent? The mules were working anyway. Probably saved money with the Patrol cars not driving around wasting fuel.

rovoagho

CARNAGE ON OUR ROADS!!!

(I felt the Star / RSA parrots were missing an opportunity to trot out one of their key phrases.)

The Muppet

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What extra money was spent? The mules were working anyway. Probably saved money with the Patrol cars not driving around wasting fuel.

Read my post and the tell me where I said extra money was spent

Terrontress

Holding law abiding people back from their normal activity has a massive economic cost. At a macro level it frustrates the economy, but for individuals, they might miss a half hour of work, maybe get docked pay. Not get something done.

It all has a cost to someone.

GT_TDI_150

Surely a check like this with the results it yielded should be interpreted for what it is, policies are working, less drink drivers on the road nowadays

POGAN

Let's think aswell there is other reason for checkpoints other than the normal stuff. Criminas use the road network from petty stuff to serious stuff. These checkpoint prevent there illegal work at least for time. The dog unit searched cars for reason. Because of the anpr hit they where getting

Main point checkpoints aren't there for catching tax & insurance etc there to catch the real criminals out there, they have and will continue to do so

Potential-Monke

As someone said above, it doesn't matter where and when checkpoints are set up, it's all down to luck at the end of the day. You could set up an hour long checkpoint in 7 different areas each night every week and get nothing, and you could be just driving along or attending a call and get 5 drink drivers in 1 night (true story).

So what if they didn't catch all the criminals and all the drink drivers that day, it brought attention to the public that no road is free from policing, not even the apparently untouchable motorways. And if someone did crash due to tailbacks, well then i'm sure they would have crashed somewhere eventually, because if you can't expect the unexpected then you shouldn't be driving. 120kph is the limit, not a target, and if someone had to brake suddenly because of this checkpoint then they were driving in a dangerous manner. No one, not even the Gardai, can plan for idiots.

As per the pictures, it was excellently done, exactly as per safety regulations. No crashes occurred, and some people were a bit late to whatever they were going to. Is that the fault of the checkpoint, or peoples insistence to not plan ahead and give ample time for their journey? Very few things annoy me more than someone who blames everything/one but themselves for not planning for unexpected delays. If the journey normally takes 2 hours, give yourself 2 1/2. It's not rocket science.

The Muppet

The Muppet wrote: »

Read my post and the tell me where I said extra money was spent

"It's about getting maximum effect for the money spent".

The mules were getting paid regardless of the checkpoint being carried out. My point was that the money spent was the same, checkpoint or no checkpoint.

sdanseo

foreign wrote: »

"It's about getting maximum effect for the money spent".

The mules were getting paid regardless of the checkpoint being carried out. My point was that the money spent was the same, checkpoint or no checkpoint.

This, a hundred times over.

People get hung up on the cost of these operations - they don't cost ANYTHING. The Gardaí are already employed. They get the same amount of pay regardless, bar maybe a few hours' overtime for the odd arrest they make.