Why are Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, RTE & the Independent obsessed with Sinn Féin?

Foxhound38 · 05-12-2013 11:55PM

IrishProd wrote: »

Why are Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, RTE & the Independent obsessed with Sinn Féin?

Especially Micheal Martin, Niall Collins, Brian Hayes and Alan Shatter?

Why? Anytime economic issues or political issues that are relevant are in the media somehow it is always turned into a Sinn Féin or Gerry Adams bashfest.

Has anyone else noticed? Is it smearing? All I have read in the papers and listened from RTE for over the last 3 months is how bad Sinn Féin and Gerry Adams are? Is it because Sinn Féin are a threat to the status quo and their past is just used as a smokescreen to vilify them in order to scare voters into voting for the usual gombeens?

People tend to get villified when they are connected with murdering people...

So be life

Banjo String · 06-12-2013 12:02AM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

People tend to get villified when they are connected with murdering people...

So be life

Sinn Féin have been connected with murdering people

The actual party????

Femme_Fatale · 06-12-2013 12:04AM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

The media has a lot to answer for here in the south with their anti-nationalist agenda. It's nothing new, and has been like this for the past 15 years or so. You can see the influence daily even on this website. 20 years ago do you think half the population would be looking at everything from the British perspective, apologising for their actions here and distracting any British wrong doing from the point with their IRA whataboutary?
...

Eoghan Harris... now a UUP advisor. Conor Cruise O'Brien

Yeh criticism of the IRA is only right, and SF and Gerry Adams and McGuinness deserve criticism (other individuals within SF I don't mind so much) but it's the above stuff I don't get - it's utterly baffling.
Harris seems barmy though.
I mean, Ruth Dudley Edwards I understand, because she is of unionist stock anyway. But Harris and Cruise-O'Brien and anyone Irish who's only critical of republican atrocities rather than atrocities across the board, and sycophantic towards hardline unionists, and dismissive of atrocities towards nationalists, and airbrushing what led to the civil rights movement... wtf is wrong with them?

Foxhound38 · 06-12-2013 12:10AM

Banjo String wrote: »

Sinn Féin have been connected with murdering people

The actual party????

Indeed, don't spread it around but some believe it to have had connections with the Provisional IRA! :eek:

Banjo String · 06-12-2013 12:22AM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Indeed, don't spread it around but some believe it to have had connections with the Provisional IRA! :eek:

The only political party in Ireland that had connections to the IRA

NuckingFacker · 06-12-2013 12:45AM

coolhull wrote: »

The problem is, my cat knows more about economics than SF

as opposed to a bluffer teacher from Mayo or a man with a record of ruthlessness to ordinary people such as noonan? Pierce Doherty has a good grasp. I like him as it happens. or are you referring to Lenihan, or Bertie, or Bruton? Yeah, great grasp there. Well, grasping anyway.

NuckingFacker · 06-12-2013 12:50AM

Banjo String wrote: »

The only political party in Ireland that had connections to the IRA

Yeah, Haughey wasn't running anything except shirts.. where did FF and FG emerge from? Just remind me, I forget somtimes. Hah.

The Golden Miller · 06-12-2013 01:07AM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Yeh criticism of the IRA is only right, and SF and Gerry Adams and McGuinness deserve criticism (other individuals within SF I don't mind so much) but it's the above stuff I don't get - it's utterly baffling.
Harris seems barmy though.
I mean, Ruth Dudley Edwards I understand, because she is of unionist stock anyway. But Harris and Cruise-O'Brien and anyone Irish who's only critical of republican atrocities rather than atrocities across the board, and sycophantic towards hardline unionists, and dismissive of atrocities towards nationalists, and airbrushing what led to the civil rights movement... wtf is wrong with them?

Baffling is an understatement.

On another note, how can I never run into a gal like you on a night out ha

rockatansky · 06-12-2013 01:15AM

porsche959 wrote: »

For all that people give out about FF and Bertie, if John Brutal was left in charge in 1997 the peace process would probably be dead in the water or at best in its infancy.

Absolutely spot on!

dxhound2005 · 06-12-2013 01:23AM

NuckingFacker wrote: »

as opposed to a bluffer teacher from Mayo or a man with a record of ruthlessness to ordinary people such as noonan? Pierce Doherty has a good grasp. I like him as it happens. or are you referring to Lenihan, or Bertie, or Bruton? Yeah, great grasp there. Well, grasping anyway.

Pearse is indeed a genius of economics. He figured out how to bring in €800 million a year by applying a 1% wealth tax to assets worth over €1 million. But the €1 million could not include any of the following, not the full list:

The first 20% of the family home and the ordinary contents of the home
All business assets including land, buildings machinery that are used for generating and sustaining
employment
Shares in private trading companies
Working farm land, livestock and bloodstock
Pension funds

http://www.sinnfein.ie/files/2012/WealthTaxDocument.pdf

And the wealth tax includes an inability to pay clause. Genius indeed. And draconian measures against evaders. Which is very odd from a man who chose to be a tax evader. Not a good recommendation for a future Minister for Finance.

But now it seems Pearse may be having a change of heart on the wealth tax.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%C3%A9in-to-drop-wealth-tax-from-its-budget-submission-1.1513823

rockatansky · 06-12-2013 01:25AM

They don't like the idea of people achieving / gaining through violence, especially at their expense.

As far as the main political parties are concerned the Irish citizens in the 6 counties are not their concern. Let Sinn Fein and the SDLP look after that lot. But as soon as they feel they are becoming a threat to their own political existence, it's straight on the phone to Montrose get the next 'investigation' into Gerry and his cohorts on the air.

road_high · 06-12-2013 01:27AM

NuckingFacker wrote: »

as opposed to a bluffer teacher from Mayo or a man with a record of ruthlessness to ordinary people such as noonan? Pierce Doherty has a good grasp. I like him as it happens. or are you referring to Lenihan, or Bertie, or Bruton? Yeah, great grasp there. Well, grasping anyway.

"Good grasp" of what exactly? Those cheap, populist sound-bites opposing everything he spouts ad nauseum? Trademark SF.

rockatansky · 06-12-2013 01:32AM

road_high wrote: »

"Good grasp" of what exactly? Those cheap, populist sound-bites opposing everything he spouts ad nauseum? Trademark SF.

Trademark of every Irish political party.

K-9 · 06-12-2013 01:35AM

NuckingFacker wrote: »

as opposed to a bluffer teacher from Mayo or a man with a record of ruthlessness to ordinary people such as noonan? Pierce Doherty has a good grasp. I like him as it happens. or are you referring to Lenihan, or Bertie, or Bruton? Yeah, great grasp there. Well, grasping anyway.

Pearse has toned down the rhetoric a lot recently and actually took on board criticism of the "something for everybody in the audience" previous budget proposals.

The problem is SF have to move more and more to the center in every election. They'll either have to compromise in coalition, keeping some core values and ditching others as is the nature of compromise, just like sharing power in the North, or become more and more like New Labour to get electable.

The main reason FF/FG and Labour hate SF is because all 3 parties were in government during the height of the troubles. Cynically the rise in popularity is a big part of it, but all 3 parties in Government dealt with the ugly side of the IRA and SF, the unromantic side of it, and that strikes a chord in Government parties against an organisation that saw Gardai and Army as legitimate targets.

The Golden Miller · 06-12-2013 01:37AM

road_high wrote: »

"Good grasp" of what exactly? Those cheap, populist sound-bites opposing everything he spouts ad nauseum? Trademark SF.

Like Fine Gael before they came into power? Or the same as most opposition parties the world over? And don't you be worrying your head about about populist sound-bites, the establishment has them down to a tee you armchair republican

rockatansky · 06-12-2013 01:41AM

K-9 wrote: »

an organisation that saw Gardai and Army as legitimate targets.

Which organisation is that now?

K-9 · 06-12-2013 01:54AM

rockatansky wrote: »

Which organisation is that now?

I suppose we'll get a dose of semantics and say Gerry McCabe wasn't an IRA sanctioned operation.

As Padraig McLochlainn alluded to in his interviews in the last day or two, IRA members and supporters and the Guards hardly were great bedfellows. From knowing IRA members/supporters/sympathisers this isn't shocking.

IRA members and sympathisers hate the Guards and the feeling is mutual, barring exceptional recent examples. Anybody who doesn't see that as a reality, well.................

06-12-2013 02:51AM

IrishProd wrote: »

Why are Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, RTE & the Independent obsessed with Sinn Féin?

Especially Micheal Martin, Niall Collins, Brian Hayes and Alan Shatter?

Why? Anytime economic issues or political issues that are relevant are in the media somehow it is always turned into a Sinn Féin or Gerry Adams bashfest.

Has anyone else noticed? Is it smearing? All I have read in the papers and listened from RTE for over the last 3 months is how bad Sinn Féin and Gerry Adams are? Is it because Sinn Féin are a threat to the status quo and their past is just used as a smokescreen to vilify them in order to scare voters into voting for the usual gombeens?

Simple political point scoring bull**** which basically amounts to "Your more incompetent than us".

Its the motto of the Irish politician. To hide their own flaws they try and expose others. I remember Gilmore's pathetic 'How many bodies is SF responsible for?" last year. Only a idiot would be fooled by Mr Frankfurt's way and his spoof but they throw it out in the Dail chamber because quite frankly they have fúck all good ideas themselves so in order to disguise this they throw this nonsense back at others. Try harder Eamo your fooling no one.

06-12-2013 02:55AM

For the record im glad Aongus O'Snodaigh might have potentially killed off that utterly stupid braindead word 'Amazeballs' today by giving an even cringier version of it 'Amazeyballs'.

One way of doing a buzz killington on the youth of today is to get a politician to try and be cool and make an absolute shíte of it.

Fentdog84 · 06-12-2013 03:16AM

listening to charlie flanagan(FG) on prime time tonight talking about Gerry adams ''no moral compass etc''. Hypocrisy at its worst. The attitude from southern politicians towards the conflict on the north has always struck me as disingenous and populist. Its like they have no real understanding of the conflict and they only seem to spout phrases like IRA murderers, its disgraceful etc same with RTE makes you wonder. Sure im no supporter of Adams or Sinn Fein but 'our' politicians from FF and FG are some of the most spineless creeps you could ever come across.

06-12-2013 03:21AM

Fentdog84 wrote: »

listening to charlie flanagan(FG) on prime time tonight talking about Gerry adams ''no moral compass etc''. Hypocrisy at its worst. The attitude from southern politicians towards the conflict on the north has always struck me as disingenous and populist. Its like they have no real understanding of the conflict and they only seem to spout phrases like IRA murderers, its disgraceful etc same with RTE makes you wonder. No backbone our politicians have, they're embarrassing

Thats true. Also the funny thing is didnt FF once refer to themselves as the Republican party? and the reason they were established was because of their own opposition to the fact that 6 of the counties remained part of Britain? Of course good old Charlie and Kevin Boland then with the arms tribunal. All conveniently forgotten by Micheal Martin and co.

Fentdog84 · 06-12-2013 03:28AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats true. Also the funny thing is didnt FF once refer to themselves as the Republican party? and the reason they were established was because of their own opposition to the fact that 6 of the counties remained part of Britain? Of course good old Charlie and Kevin Boland then with the arms tribunal. All conveniently forgotten by Micheal Martin and co.

When they are talking about the conflict in the north its as if they are talking about some foreign conflict out in the middle east somewhere. They just criticize the people involved in it as terrorsts and murderers as if they have no part to play or never had a part in it whatsover themselves. Creeps like Martin just change their stance by the minute to suit whatever agenda they have going on.

Foxhound38 · 06-12-2013 04:04AM

Banjo String wrote: »

The only political party in Ireland that had connections to the IRA

With the provos, yes.

Oh wait, there was that one time some FF politicians tried to send the provos weapons - so two connections I guess.

ardle1 · 06-12-2013 05:24AM

IrishProd wrote: »

Why are Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, RTE & the Independent obsessed with Sinn Féin?

Especially Micheal Martin, Niall Collins, Brian Hayes and Alan Shatter?

Why? Anytime economic issues or political issues that are relevant are in the media somehow it is always turned into a Sinn Féin or Gerry Adams bashfest.

Has anyone else noticed? Is it smearing? All I have read in the papers and listened from RTE for over the last 3 months is how bad Sinn Féin and Gerry Adams are? Is it because Sinn Féin are a threat to the status quo and their past is just used as a smokescreen to vilify them in order to scare voters into voting for the usual gombeens?

I knew I wasn't imagining things, it's absolutely endless and relentless, even when you think Vincent(the arrogant ignorant) Browne is getting soft in his old age, you can be sure by the end he'll try and humiliate and degrade any Sinn Féin representative who appears on his show!:mad:

Nodin · 06-12-2013 06:58AM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Baffling is an understatement.

On another note, how can I never run into a gal like you on a night out ha

Sure in a pub with music or a nightclub, how would ye hear her?

Banjo String · 06-12-2013 08:07AM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Pearse is indeed a genius of economics. He figured out how to bring in €800 million a year by applying a 1% wealth tax to assets worth over €1 million. But the €1 million could not include any of the following, not the full list:

The first 20% of the family home and the ordinary contents of the home
All business assets including land, buildings machinery that are used for generating and sustaining
employment
Shares in private trading companies
Working farm land, livestock and bloodstock
Pension funds

http://www.sinnfein.ie/files/2012/WealthTaxDocument.pdf

And the wealth tax includes an inability to pay clause. Genius indeed. And draconian measures against evaders. Which is very odd from a man who chose to be a tax evader. Not a good recommendation for a future Minister for Finance.

But now it seems Pearse may be having a change of heart on the wealth tax.

Being a tax evader seems to be very high up the list of credentials for aspiring Finance ministers.

Certainly did Mick Noonan no harm.

THE disclosure by Fine Gael leader Michael Noonan that the party was forced to make a £111,000 tax settlement with the Revenue Commissioners was a last-minute panic decision, it can be revealed.

Mr Noonan has sought to claim credit for coming clean about Fine Gael's illegal under-the-counter cash payments to staff.

He did this by falsely giving the impression that his disclosure, timed for RTÉ's 9pm News on Friday, was further evidence of Fine Gael's desire to own up to past illegality.

Mr Noonan has also attempted to deflect attention from Fine Gael's illegality by trying to implicate other political parties in what is substantially an unrelated issue.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fear-of-expos-forced-noonans-tax-admission-26248623.html

another oversight DX?

Foxhound38 wrote: »

With the provos, yes.

Oh wait, there was that one time some FF politicians tried to send the provos weapons - so two connections I guess.

So, just so I'm clear. Political parties having connections to 'IRA murders' is fine and dandy with you, so long as those connections aren't with the provisionals?

Am I following you correctly here yeah?

Presumably that's why you've no problems with Eamo?

http://oi41.tinypic.com/14acgk.jpg

smell of hypocrisy coming from some posters is nauseating.

.jacksparrow. · 06-12-2013 08:29AM

Ah but you see the old Ira were a great bunch of lads.

But the provos were murderers.

Oh wait...

_Kaiser_ · 06-12-2013 09:08AM

It's pure hypocrisy and an attempt to distract from their own mismanagement of the country by slinging mud at others.

None of the other mainstream parties have a spotless history either - have we forgotten Charlie's arms dealings in 1969/70 as but one example (probably, seeing as the electorate has the memory of a goldfish).

But it's the way things are in Irish politics. Rather than answer legitimate questions, try to side-step by carrying on like a schoolchild throwing smart-ass comments back and forth in the national playground that is our parliament and all live on TV!

And we pay for this.. and vote these people in. :rolleyes:

Christy42 · 06-12-2013 09:39AM

I think comparing the morality of Bertie or any of the other mainstream parties to Martin McGuiness is laughable. Most of our current lot are crooks and so are the ones that came before hand. They did not willfully kill people or order their deaths. Robbery does not carry as heavy a sentence as murder for a reason.

Sinn Fein won't be some shining light if/when they get into power. They will follow what every party before them as soon as they get into power. They will forget all their promises and focus on their own aims. Sure they even had the cross border vote over a united Ireland to help them push that angle. Of course they only had it in Crossmaglen and Dundalk cos you know it would be beaten pretty much everywhere else. As soon as they are in power they will say it was a vote for a united Ireland forgetting of course it will probably be on the back of other people's incompetence and their other promises.

keeponhurling · 06-12-2013 02:54PM

coolhull wrote: »

The problem is, my cat knows more about economics than SF

Part of it is that FF and FG economic policies have bankrupted this country.
So whenever economic discussion comes up, they just yell "'SF dont know anything about economics" until the question goes way.

If asked what part of the SF economic manifesto they disagree with, they just repeat " SF dont know anything about economics" and if pushed on how to improve the economy, might bring up Jean McConville or something.

Effectively we are being shafted as a country, and it's a way to avoid questions on their own roles.
Especially on RTE, you can avoid any question by throwing out a "SF are awful, arent they?" type comment, and the presenter will just run with that for the rest of the interview.

a bye-product of this is posters like coolhull, probably doesn't even know the SF economic polices, let alone the other parties', and throws out comments like the above.

Why are Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, RTE & the Independent obsessed with Sinn Féin?

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