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Please gamble sensibly

2

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    Filibuster wrote: »
    I'll bet you €1,000 it's true
    If you get someone to hold my €1,000 and your €1,000 you can have a full download of my Paddy Power and Betfair accounts.
    Afterwards I will be holding €2,000 and you will be holding air.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Tin Foil Hat


    MadsL wrote: »
    Do you have a pension fund?

    Nope!
    In any case, they are not comparable. I have some shares. They are worth less now than when I paid for them, but I still have them. They may or may not recover. If I put that money on No.6 it would be gone forever.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    I'm talking about the advertising of it.

    Ah okay, sorry.

    I'm with you on that 100%.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,203 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    Nope!
    In any case, they are not comparable. I have some shares. They are worth less now than when I paid for them, but I still have them. They may or may not recover. If I put that money on No.6 it would be gone forever.

    if the company goes bust - you won't have any shares, if no 6 comes second pp might give you your money back.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    diomed wrote: »
    If you get someone to hold my €1,000 and your €1,000 you can have a full download of my Paddy Power and Betfair accounts.
    Afterwards I will be holding €2,000 and you will be holding air.

    Pick me! Pick me!


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  • Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I won a turkey playing cards last week. Only cost me a fiver to play.

    GET IN ! :-P


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 361 ✭✭Filibuster


    diomed wrote: »
    If you get someone to hold my €1,000 and your €1,000 you can have a full download of my Paddy Power and Betfair accounts.
    Afterwards I will be holding €2,000 and you will be holding air.

    Why don't we just download the latest Financial Statements from the Paddy Power website.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 810 ✭✭✭fermanagh_man


    I just won €320 on a €10 bet tonight

    The way I look at it €10 bet = 2 less pints on a night out

    I set up a €25 limit on my online account and only bet for the Craic, mainly on Saturdays or if there are a few midweek games

    But never ever bet on horses or dogs


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    Ah **** off. If I want to have a few quid on the horses it's none of your business. I earn enough that it makes piss all difference to me and I enjoy it. Win some, loose some.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Tin Foil Hat


    P_1 wrote: »
    Everything you do in life is a gamble, especially with money, the risk is related to the reward. Lets take a fictional thousand euro and present a few possible scenarios for what you can do with it.

    1 - You keep it in a current account, your risk is that your bank goes bust, your reward is more than likely having to pay the bank for the privilage.
    2 - You keep it in your house, your risk is that your house burns down or somebody steals it, your reward is nil.
    3 - You keep it in a savings account, again your risk is that your bank goes bust, your reward is about 2%.
    4 - You invest it in a stock portfolio, your risk is that your stocks tank, your reward is anything from 3% upwards
    5 - You back the hot favourite to win it's match/cover the handicap/win the race, your risk is it failing to do so, your reward is 50%/91%/400%...

    You left out the thing that most people do with that €1000. It gets spent on the mortgage, the bills, the food, the kids, a holiday, some nice little luxury. You know - Life.
    I've seen people blow that money on the ponies and another €1000 after it chasing their losses.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,087 ✭✭✭Spring Onion


    Without gamblers the world would still be in dark ages. Columbus gambled to find a faster route to the Orient but found the new world instead. Changed the world.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,639 ✭✭✭feargale


    Pudsy33 wrote: »
    It can be destructive, like most things in large amounts, but to call anyone who gambles a loser is ridiculous.

    Ever met a poor bookie?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭Nadser


    Gambling is not sensible, full stop.
    Taking ones hard earned cash and fukking it away on a horse, football game, or whatever, is probably the stupidest thing I can possibly imagine.

    As opposed to spending money on make-up/sports' jerseys/whatever you're into?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    feargale wrote: »
    Ever met a poor bookie?

    Ivan Yates is an example of one, his attempt at being one (Celtic Bookmakers) left him having to take a bit of a holiday over in Swansea quite recently


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,639 ✭✭✭feargale


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    spending it on smokes and destroying your health and that of people around you is a lot worse than gambling.

    Not sure about that. A gambling problem is often invisible to others, wreaking enormous damage before it is detected. Other high profile problems are all too visible, and so have a better chance of being taken in hand.


  • Posts: 24,773 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cashmans in cork is another example of a highish profile bookie going down the drain, along with plenty of racecourse bookies that go bust regularly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    Filibuster wrote: »
    Why don't we just download the latest Financial Statements from the Paddy Power website.
    EighBall said
    Gamblers are losers. If it wasn't for losers paddy power would be broke.


    I'll explain how it works.
    1. The market-maker prices the event to ensure himself/herself a profit.
    2. Those who select the winner and bet on it collect from the market-maker.
    3. Those who did not select the winner do not collect.
    Take note of point 2.

    The difference between those who do not collect and those who collect is a mystery to most. The public attribute it to luck.
    Those who collect more often that they contribute make a profit.

    The skill is identifying the events / market makers where the margin is slimmest, and where the better can use skill/knowledge/experience.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    diomed wrote: »
    The difference between those who do not collect and those who collect is a mystery to most. The public attribute it to luck.
    It's nothing to do with luck, it's how it works: You must have losers in order to have winners, because the money has to come from somewhere.

    The main winners are the gambling outlets, because they can't lose (otherwise their business model would be unsustainable); the public are the losers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭sligoface


    Ive been gambling for over ten years, at this point i would say that i do gamble sensibly, though i dont think most people can, and i certainly didnt when i started. You can avoid learning the expensive lessons i learned if you follow some simple but not always easy to follow rules. keep a separate bankroll just for gambling and if you cant afford this just dont gamble.Bet 3-5% of yr gambling bankroll on each game, keep yr bets the same amount (dont increase to chase losses or make a big score after winning), dont waste yr money on accumulators, do singles only, don't just bet on favorites and big name teams, in fact bet more often on underdogs and against public perceptions. Horses are never profitable long term. PL and CL soccer are horrible value to punters as the odds are crap and there are three possible outcomes due to draws. If you stick to american sports handicaps, where the handicaps are always 10/11 or similar and if the game lands on the handicap number your stake is refunded ( again, not like soccer where you can bet handicap draw so when it lands on the number all bets on either team lose) you will be in profit long term if you can hit just 53% of your bets. Not saying you cant lose yr bankroll but if you stay conservative and disciplined and really put time into following the sports you can be a winner. Most people who bet with paddy power etc. lose because they bet too much on whatever team or sport they follow, bet on pl and cl league favorites and whatever is on tv, etc. And they cant keep their bets to one single sensible amount, no money management.
    It's not easy to beat the bookie but you can have a bit of fun without going broke. In america people outside of vegas have to bet illegally even though betting on us football is very popular, which means you have to deal with some dodgy characters. I would hate to see that happen here just because some people cant control themselves.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    feargale wrote: »
    Ever met a poor bookie?

    Plenty of bookies have gone bust and I would certainly need more than the fingers of one hand to count the numbers of Irish casinos that have gone bust

    Several casinos had also closed in Reno when I was last there.

    The risk isn't all on the punters side y'know.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭oldyouth


    I forgot about the midweek Premier League matches until I started reading this thread. I'm off to my PP account.......back soon :P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,264 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    OP, just pay the 10€ a month for Spotify and you won't be subjected to all that nonsense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭bigneacy


    oldyouth wrote: »
    A few bob on the footy or horses every weekend for a bit of fun is manageable. Being doing it online every week for around 6 years now and reckon I'm down around €200. To me it is a social expense

    I reckon you are wrong. If you are a regular gambler and you aren't betting 5 or 10 cent stakes, yet you are only down €200 your account will become restricted- you'll find it hard to place bets most of the time because automatic risk controls will restrict your ability to place likely to win bets. Purely because you are too successful for the company to profit off you. A bookie has no room for a successful client on their books, doesn't make financial sense.

    This isn't a conspiracy theory by the way- I used to work in a bookies HQ. I never gamble.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭Soft Falling Rain


    Gambleaware is as meaningless as drinkaware if not more so. At least the bar man can refuse the person who has had one too many, the cashier can't do the same for the guy who is losing his bollox and can't help himself (much like the drunken mess who doesn't know when to quit). I'm not saying it's the cashier's fault btw, they're only doing what they're told.

    So it's all well and good telling gambling addicts to be responsible but as long as the rule of the land shows less respect to gambling as a serious problem as it does to alcohol and drugs, it's all pretty redundant.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,079 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    MadsL wrote: »
    The best profit maximising strategy would be to keep your regular punter solvent, able to earn more money and gambling regularly, would it not?

    Not quite what you suggest in your OP.
    You'd think that wouldn't you, but the gambling industry can make a lot of money from insolvent people. The gambler borrows the money to give to the bookie. The debt stays with the gambler, the bookie doesn't care where the money to gamble comes from.

    I would love to know what percentage of all the lump sum payments made in ireland have gone into the pockets of Bookies?

    How many people waste their inheritence or redundancy payments on the horses?

    How many people who win money on the lottery go on to give it all to the bookie?

    The psychology of gambling to someone who is addicted is that the next bet could be the big one. No matter how much you are in debt, if you gamble a little bit more, you can pull yourself back

    There are 3 types of gambler in Ireland.
    1. The very occasional gambler. Someone who might put a couple of euros on a horse in the grand national or the world cup or a night at the dogs with work collegues. Here the bet is just for fun and only because other people are doing it too. The risks here are extremely low

    2. The social gambler
    This is a person who might have a regular game of poker, or bingo or who might put on a bet with friends watching the soccer match in the pub to make it more interesting. Usually they don't bet very much money and their losses are within a level that they can easily afford. This is more risky than the first category because it is easy to get carried away.

    The group psychology of gambling is that the wins are remembered and the losses are never mentioned again (unless it's funny, and then they are remembered as something to slag the gambler about 'why did you bet on them ya feckin eejit'). It can be easy to get sucked in over your head especially if you have a few big losses. Often when a gambler loses, there is a psychological need to bet again to recover the loss.
    Social gambling can be very expensive, especially as the very rare time you have a big win, you are then expected to buy the drinks for the group for the evening (there goes your winnings)

    Category 3 gamblers are the most at risk. These are people who gamble alone and consider themselves to be 'good gamblers'
    These are the people who study the horses, form guides, who analyse the data and come up with bets that they think are wrongly priced by the bookies.
    These are the gamblers who can ruin their lives the fastest and the most severely. Whenever they lose, they still feel like they 'should have won' except for some external factor that definitely won't happen the next time.

    These gamblers may win more often than other gamblers, they certainly appear to win more often, this is beause they place their bets privately, and only tell people about the bets that they win.
    The big wins validate their belief that they have a winning system, but the big wins are more than offset by the many losses
    You'll find this category of gambler is more interested in accumulator bets because the reward for winning is higher and there are more excuses if they lose.

    There are very very few gamblers who actually make money directly out of winning bets. Poker players can manage it for a while but they have to be extremely disciplined and stick to a very rigid strategy. They also need to be satisfied with a steady income. Gamblers tend to need accumulating gains. Poker players often talk about building up a 'bank roll'. They play the games that they can win consistently and make a profit from so that later on, they can play the bigger games where they will almost certainly lose all of their money.

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,157 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    Eight Ball wrote: »
    Gamblers are losers. If it wasn't for losers paddy power would be broke.

    The Trading floor in Financial and Energy Companies is sometimes referred to as the roulette table.

    They seem to win most of the time.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Is 'gambling sensibly' not a bit of an oxymoron?

    No, every now and then I put a bit of money aside to bet with. It's not money I depend on, hence I'm doing it sensibly. The problem with gambling, is when it comes to people who throw all their money and assets into it.


  • Posts: 24,773 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    bigneacy wrote: »
    I reckon you are wrong. If you are a regular gambler and you aren't betting 5 or 10 cent stakes, yet you are only down €200 your account will become restricted- you'll find it hard to place bets most of the time because automatic risk controls will restrict your ability to place likely to win bets. Purely because you are too successful for the company to profit off you. A bookie has no room for a successful client on their books, doesn't make financial sense.

    This isn't a conspiracy theory by the way- I used to work in a bookies HQ. I never gamble.

    It is a conspiracy, I would be down about the same over a 4 to 5 year period and actually I was up (quite a bit) for most of it until this year (I'm having a bad year). I have a couple of bets every week so I do it regularly and would have a lot of bets in big events cheltenham, big golf tournaments etc and almost all my bets are online with one bookie and I certainly am not restricted. I'm constantly getting promotional emails actually and being offered specials, the exact opposite of what you are saying.

    I also withdraw all winnings instantly from my account after an event, never leave money in it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭oldyouth


    bigneacy wrote: »
    I reckon you are wrong. If you are a regular gambler and you aren't betting 5 or 10 cent stakes, yet you are only down €200 your account will become restricted- you'll find it hard to place bets most of the time because automatic risk controls will restrict your ability to place likely to win bets. Purely because you are too successful for the company to profit off you. A bookie has no room for a successful client on their books, doesn't make financial sense.

    This isn't a conspiracy theory by the way- I used to work in a bookies HQ. I never gamble.

    Obviously you know more about the workings than I do.

    I have a PP account and my usual weekly bet is €5 on a LOI treble, €2 on an EPL accumulator and €3 on an EPL double. PP give far better odds on LOI than makes sense and this subsidises my EPL bets, which rarely come off. I usually transfer €30 a time in to my account and the last transfer was in June. I get great craic out of it and never intend to withdraw money from it. I just like to see my total go up


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    While I consider the placing of cash wagers on the outcomes of arbitrary sporting events to be probably one of the noblest endeavours that humankind can pursue, the concept of "sensible" gambling is a bit nuts. But it must be seen in the context of the current corporate paradigm of portraying an airy-fairy facade of caring about their customers. Nobody can blame the companies for piggy-backing on the idea of projecting a caring public face. So we have drink-sensibly warnings underneath whiskey ads (who in their right mind drinks that stuff regularly, anyway?) and gamble-aware ads at the bottom of web pages that otherwise fuel wide-eyed maniacal gambling on how many yellow cards will be handed out in a third division football match in the Philippines at 3 in the morning.


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