Solution to the new breed of scumbags

Proper parenting. Scumbag kids are mostly a result of scumbag parents.

Beavishead wrote: »

Forced abortions and forced sterilisation would work wonders here but in this day an age anyone should be allowed to have children. To hell with the consequences.

I'd say just the choice to actually have an abortion would be a good enough start.

A lot of these anti-social scumbags (corrupt scumbags are different breed with a more obvious incentive) come from ****ed up families, oftentimes with them basically being unwanted and uncared for from the off. They're basically born to play the part.

The sight of two junkies pushing a baby in a stroller round dublin looking for a fix just kills me. Not that it's impossible, but realistically the odds would be very much against this little guy turning out to be an upstanding member or society.

It's one of those things that really irks me about pro-life campaigners.
More often than not when you see these people interviewed, they seem to be from well off backgrounds with little consideration for the impact of an unwanted pregnancy on someone already in a dire position.
Should one of their children get pregnant, sure it'll be grand, daddy will set them up with a nice house and car, piano lessons & horse riding, the child will never be left wanting.

If someone cannot realistically see themselves being able to provide for and take responsibility for the sensible upbringing of a child, why must we force it upon them?
As opposed to waiting 15 or so years to point the finger back at them, why not provide options.

Of course anti-social behaviour isn't exclusive to the lower classes, but it's clear to see that the hopelessness of their situation causes many an uncared for child to act out in this way.

Rather than buy a scumbag, why have scumbags ?
What are the usual causes of scumbaggery ?

ignorance
poverty
idleness
teenagers being teenagers/angst
early exposure to criminal behavior
substance abuse
peer behavior
depression
fear
despair

That encapsulates most of them. There may be a few others in the mix, feel free to add them on.

Anyway. The point I would like to make, is continuing on from my early (seemingly radical) view.

I know there are plenty of folks out there, who like the idea of a big family, and having 6 or seven kids running around the house.
What if the rest of the planet decided that you are in the wrong century for that level of procreation ?
What if a two child policy were introduced, as of a cut-off date, with mandatory (reversible, compulsory) state sponsored sterilization schemes for those who have had their quota of 2 children.
What are the social implications of this ?

Capped parental leave (=>more government resources to provide better services)
Capped Child Welfare payments(=>more government resources to provide better services)
Reduced pressure on education system (better atmosphere & standard in schools)
Lower student/teacher ratios(better educated/qualified kids ?)(=> less ignorance/illiteracy)
Higher standard of education (better educated/qualified kids ?)(=> less ignorance/illiteracy)
The same number of facilities (sport & social amenities) for a lower number of people (higher participation => less idleness)
More resources to tackle welfare dependency(=> reduced poverty)
Less demand on welfare dependent families (=> reduced poverty)

I would further suggest that as of a set amnesty/cut-off date, those that are convicted of drug-related or violent criminal offenses in a family home or environment are immediately sequestered from their rights to have children, and must submit to regular testing and inspection/supervision to maintain access to the children that they do have. (this is based on the idea of breaking the criminal cycle by getting scummy parents away from children that can be influenced.)

I think that all of the above, if enforceable would inevitably improve the lot of the vulnerable individuals and be for the benefit of society.

How that would pan out on a global scale would probably be a borderline genocide, considering the human rights record of the nations within the little circle posted above. Having said that, China's single child policy did have clear benefits, even if the enforcement of it was completely inhumane.

Humanity itself is under threat from overpopulation, and the alternatives whenever they arise will definitely be less humane than even an imperfect activation of what is outlined above.

Put them out cleaning the streets etc and make them earn their money seeing as none of them have any desire to get a job, if they refuse to do so cut their welfare, childrens allowance should be for the first 2 kids and if they want to breed any more let them pay for them out of their own pocket.

Harassing ordinary hard working people as they go about their business should result in a long stretch in prison, maybe reopen Spike Island and put them in there.

Obviously none of the above will ever happen.

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Some serious, nazi keyboard warriors going down here tonight.

Godwins Law in 74 posts. Nice

Gunshot to the ankle seems to be their weakness.

AngryHippie wrote: »

Your easiest way suggestion falls down because of the cost of incarceration in Ireland, and the fact that the gubberment can barely afford to pay the Gardai that are already there.

Some reforms of the law would help there. Stop jailing people for non violent drugs offenses and non payment of fines, stop dedicating hordes of Gardai to money grubbing insurance checkpoints, move more Gardai from clerical / office work to actually patrolling "on the beat" as they say, etc.
In terms of prison overcrowding, how many cells are occupied by people whose crime harmed no other individual, at the expense of locking up someone who is actually a danger to others?

How many bullies are the way they are because their paternal figure was an ar$ehole ? I'm not saying you are wrong, just that it won't work, and you are blaming the sons for the sins of their fathers. (largely)
Any bullies that I knew in school either came from violent households are had total asshole brothers and/or father.
Its nurture not nature.

I'm not in any way denying that, but surely you would agree that if a kid beats the sh!te out of another kid in the playground and receives no punishment for it whatsoever from the school, he or she then has no deterrent in doing it again? In my view it's the same as the suspended sentence issue - someone who is inclined to violence is only going to be forced out of it if they know the consequences of their actions are not worth the risk. Unfortunately, that's the only way some people operate - with no moral compass (for whatever reason), the sole determining factor in their behavior is whether or not they will personally suffer unpleasant consequences for it. In that scenario, slaps on the wrist for school bullies and suspended sentences for people with 30 previous convictions are absolutely insane.

If they can't afford the time and money to adequately nurture kids, how about do everyone a favor and remove the means of creating them ? even temporarily, so they have a chance to better their lot or learn how to do it properly......

So let me get this straight, you're not in favour of proper discipline in schools against people who bully their fellow pupils and you're not in favour of tougher jail sentences for people who commit violent crimes, but you are in favour of some kind of mass forced sterilization campaign?

I... I'm not quite... :eek:

The story on crime.ie was a disgusting lie...
http://crime.ie/20131203/correction-shooting-incident-fassaroe/

I grew up in a quite town in Co Clare, back in the 80s and 90s it was fairly respectable.
Now some of the youth of this town are going around putting on Limerick city accents and think they're gangstas...
This is Co Clare.
It's very sad really. ..

AngryHippie wrote: »

What if a two child policy were introduced, as of a cut-off date, with mandatory (reversible, compulsory) state sponsored sterilization schemes for those who have had their quota of 2 children.
What are the social implications of this ?


I would further suggest that as of a set amnesty/cut-off date, those that are convicted of drug-related or violent criminal offenses in a family home or environment are immediately sequestered from their rights to have children, and must submit to regular testing and inspection/supervision to maintain access to the children that they do have. (this is based on the idea of breaking the criminal cycle by getting scummy parents away from children that can be influenced.)

I think that all of the above, if enforceable would inevitably improve the lot of the vulnerable individuals and be for the benefit of society

That's a scary amount of control to hand to any Government!

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Some reforms of the law would help there. Stop jailing people for non violent drugs offenses

We've seen how keen our current gubberment are to tackle that issue.....

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm not in any way denying that, but surely you would agree that if a kid beats the sh!te out of another kid in the playground and receives no punishment for it whatsoever from the school

Why can you not see that it is as more the parent's responsibility at home to discipline their children ?
Do you see a school as a big creche ?
Teachers, Educators should not have to waster their time dreaming up schemes to discipline little scumbags who can go home ignore it all and carry on regardless. I am trying to address the root cause(children being dragged up), rather than the symptoms (children acting out in school)
You will not effect social change through some sort of half arsed anti-bulling campaign in schools. I've seen it attempted and all it does is to further alienate and punish already bitter and misguided kids because their parents are pillocks.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

So let me get this straight, you're not in favour of proper discipline in schools against people who bully their fellow pupils and you're not in favour of tougher jail sentences for people who commit violent crimes, but you are in favour of some kind of mass forced sterilization campaign?
I... I'm not quite... :eek:

I am not in favor of supporting discipline in schools that precludes the importance of discipline/values at home. Absolutely not. Doing that is merely docking the thistles. Ask any teacher with 20 years experience in an urban school. It's siblings from the same families backgrounds that cause the problems.
Every now and again you get a kid with genuine emotional/psychological problems , does punishing them help ?

Do the Math. as a society, we can not afford the resources to keep incarcerating (under humane conditions) the same proportion of the ever increasing population. I'm just trying to think of an effective solution.

Yes, I know that it is too much power to hand to a government, as such it will never happen. The reality however is pretty grim. I fear for the legacy we are providing for our children's children.

14 billion people by 2060.
2005 statistics, 5.15 billion out of 6.45 billion are surviving on less than $10.00 per day.
Do you think that number can be 10.30 billion people without the system collapsing and humanity eating itself ?
Do you think that any country in the world will be able to police it's borders from 10 Billion hungry people ?

I'm looking for a global solution to the causes of scumbag behavior. And if you have any better ideas beyond decriminalizing non-violent crimes and having and anti bullying brigade in our schools, I'd be glad to hear them.
Just bare in mind, our little island is a microcosm of a global problem, we don't have third world poverty conditions anywhere in Ireland, if we want to keep it that way, we need to plan our future.

Call me a Nazi if you want, but I'd rather be a borderline Nazi now, than have to sit by and watch 10 Billion people starve to death over the next 50 years.

Considering that our resources are finite, and that this problem is inevitable, which is more humane ?

Act now or pay later?

Either way, the price is a piece of our humanity.