Ireland De-Facto Visa

Alcoholicia · 29-10-2013 12:11am

Patrin wrote: »

Similar situation though with a much longer relationship and I can tell you even with 8 years together I am worried about the 2 year rule too. The working visa will be a big help and rememeber to document everything and highlight the reasons for not being together. I wish we had thought about this so early on. I have nearly nothing other than photos from the first like 4 years. At 19 who thinks about those things? Wish you the best of luck and hope you two get things worked out.

I just don't understand how you're meant to live together for 2 years when you're not even allowed to be in the country past 90 days if you're non-EU/non-EEA. Are you supposed to keep extending your tourist visa with the stamp 0 and not work for a year? And then apply for the de facto visa and not work for potentially another 9 months? Does the country only want you if you have a lot of money?

It's really discouraging that international couples are essentially being forced to get married to be together.

Cushie Butterfield · 29-10-2013 8:39am

Alcoholicia wrote: »

I just don't understand how you're meant to live together for 2 years when you're not even allowed to be in the country past 90 days if you're non-EU/non-EEA. Are you supposed to keep extending your tourist visa with the stamp 0 and not work for a year? And then apply for the de facto visa and not work for potentially another 9 months? Does the country only want you if you have a lot of money?

It's really discouraging that international couples are essentially being forced to get married to be together.

It's important for you to remember that a DeFacto visa is designed for couples who are basically in a relationship that is the same as if they were married, the only difference being that they don't have the bit of paper saying that they are married. If the relationship breaks down the DeFacto partner loses their right to remain in the country.

It's really not all that different to your partner wanting to move to the US to be with you. INS don't recognise DeFacto relationships at all. The only option based on romantic relationships for an immigrant visa to the US is either a spousal visa (where the US citizen petitions for their alien spouse to either join them in the US or adjust their current status to remain with them in the US), or a fiancee visa which allows the alien fiancee to enter the US & marry within 90 days. Effectively both of these visas rely on the US citizen sponsoring their alien partner. Neither country makes it easy for anyone, even in the case of married couples.

Of course both countries allow for work/qualification based visas, which allow someone to enter & work in their own right. This really is now the best option for couples who don't intend to marry, or don't know whether they want to marry. You are both students, so once qualified you may both be in a better position to relocate either side of the Atlantc for work purposes & live together. It may mean living in both countries together long enough to satisfy the two year rule, but if that's what you have to do that's what you have to do.

The two year rule has only recently been brought in, so it's a bit early to know or to hear about how rigidly it will be enforced, or exactly what reasons will be considered as compelling enough not to satisfy the two years living together.

So, as well as you looking into coming to Ireland to work/study for a given period of time, your partner should explore the possibilities of moving to the US on either a gradute visa or by employer sponsorship. He could also look into obtaining employment from a US based IT firm in Ireland with the view to being relocated by them on an inter-company transfer. You may find that for whatever reason you won't like living in Ireland, or your partner might find that he prefers living in the US. It's not going to be easy & involves a lot of groundwork & research, but if you really want a future together it is achievable. If all else fails you always have the option of marriage.

sunshineab · 08-11-2013 4:30pm

Hi guys,
My boyfriend (Irish) and I have applied for the defacto visa four weeks ago ( just after the changes on the INIS website) and today we received a letter stating that my application has been refused because we haven't documented prof that we have been living in a Deafacto relationship. ( we've been in a relationship for over two years but have not lived together. We have sent a huge fokder with documented evidence a a durable relationship and plus another album with almost 80 photos, and anything you can imagine was attached to our Defacto application. Last year I moved back to my home country to gain experience in the field I had qualified in. I have lived in Ireland for the past 7 years but due to the new student regulations I could no longer renew my visa. I returned to Ireland in Sept so we could apply for the Defacto visa so I could live in Ireland with my boyfriend.
Right now we don't know what to do, what's the next step? My tourist visa expires in December and in the letter it's stated that I have to leave the country on or before my visitor permission expires.

Has anyone had their application refused before?
We wish to appeal to their decision, because how are we supposed to prove that we have been living on a defacto relationship if I'm nit even supposed to stay in the country anymore?

I suppose the new changes had an impact in our application, and it didn't take them that long to refuse it.

We'd appreciate any info or suggestions as for what we should do?

We only have 4 weeks before my visa expires.

Thank you in advance

sunshineab · 28-11-2013 11:30am

Hi guys,

Our situation has gotten a little more complicated since I last posted my message. We found out this week that there's a baby on the way. I'm 5 weeks pregnant and we don't know what to do. We have appealed to the INIS decision on Monday and just found out after that about the pregnancy.

Does anyone know what we can do?
My visa expires on the 17th of Dec...
Thanks

Cushie Butterfield · 28-11-2013 6:24pm

sunshineab wrote: »

Hi guys,

Our situation has gotten a little more complicated since I last posted my message. We found out this week that there's a baby on the way. I'm 5 weeks pregnant and we don't know what to do. We have appealed to the INIS decision on Monday and just found out after that about the pregnancy.

Does anyone know what we can do?
My visa expires on the 17th of Dec...
Thanks

I don't know the answer to your question, but if I were you I'd definitely send a registered letter to INIS, quoting your reference number advising them of your pregnancy & ask them to add this info to your file, in case it would make a difference to your appeal.

tatli_lokma · 28-11-2013 8:13pm

Cushie Butterfield wrote: »

I don't know the answer to your question, but if I were you I'd definitely send a registered letter to INIS, quoting your reference number advising them of your pregnancy & ask them to add this info to your file, in case it would make a difference to your appeal.

And include a letter from a doctor confirming the pregnancy, maybe? At least that way they can't question the validity of your claim.

sunshineab · 29-11-2013 10:30am

Cushie Butterfield wrote: »

I don't know the answer to your question, but if I were you I'd definitely send a registered letter to INIS, quoting your reference number advising them of your pregnancy & ask them to add this info to your file, in case it would make a difference to your appeal.

Thanks for the advice cushie butterfield. I think that's what we are going to do! :-)

sunshineab · 29-11-2013 10:33am

tatli_lokma wrote: »

And include a letter from a doctor confirming the pregnancy, maybe? At least that way they can't question the validity of your claim.

Yea, we are going to send a copy of my doctor's letter. We need the original to show the consultant.
Fingers crossed we will get this sorted out soon. We really want to go on a nice holiday before the baby arrives.

Thank you

perfectblue · 04-12-2013 12:32am

sunshineab wrote: »

Yea, we are going to send a copy of my doctor's letter. We need the original to show the consultant.
Fingers crossed we will get this sorted out soon. We really want to go on a nice holiday before the baby arrives.

Thank you

you could possibly look into hiring a family lawyer or immigration lawyer to help you out. the folks at crosscare migrant project might be able to give you some advice too. good luck!

ash1234 · 02-01-2014 10:36am

Hey guys,

I applied for my naturalization in 2009. I got letter in Jan 2012 that the decision on my application has been postponed for 12 months, I waits for 12 months and now i got mail that my application is recommenced and under check process, what i expect that how long it will take now? and what will be the outcome? if any one has clue plz let me know thanks.

tatli_lokma · 02-01-2014 11:12am

ash1234 wrote: »

Hey guys,

I applied for my naturalization in 2009. I got letter in Jan 2012 that the decision on my application has been postponed for 12 months, I waits for 12 months and now i got mail that my application is recommenced and under check process, what i expect that how long it will take now? and what will be the outcome? if any one has clue plz let me know thanks.

From the time ours was at checking stage it took a further 5 months. But it all depends on how complex/simple your application is. The more checking they have to do the longer it takes. There is no guaranteed time frame although they do aim to have all applications finalised within 6 months, but as I say it can take longer if your application is not straightforward.

ash1234 · 02-01-2014 12:45pm

Thanks for your kind information, but I was waiting for 12 months as Minister deffer a decision on my application, now it recommenced so still it will take that longer?

katsuas · 09-01-2014 4:55pm

Hi there,

Last year while living in Australia - I met my Australian boyfriend and we have been going out for 14 months. We didn't live together in australia but have lots of evidence of our relationship together (flight tickets together, tickets, photos ect)

He came to Ireland for 6 weeks before christmas and has just been granted the working holiday visa for ireland for 12 months (with a 6 month limit in each job)

Now - I have a few questions:

Should he tell customs on the way in he is visiting a partner for record on the file?

He is applying for his dream job here which would start in March (in the field of marketing / events) I assume the company will ask his visa options if they take him on? He can work for them for 6 months on his working holiday visa but the job is for 12 months min.

So we were not planning on living together straight away but say if we did from March - September (6 months) that we were named on a lease together plus all the documentation from our then 2 year relationship and if we had joint bank account / bills ect - do you think he would be eligible for the defacto visa?

My concern is really about what work options he would have to continue in that that company beyond the 6 month period and i'd love to have some clarity around options before he interviews.

Thanks for any advice!

ash1234 · 14-01-2014 1:37pm

Hi every one..

I have a quick question, I am applying for my family wife and my son, as i have been married here and divorced in 2012. I lived 8 years on stamp4 and applied for residency, as my wife are sick in my country and i want to invite her over here as I cant go because of my work. could you please give me some suggestions what to do,? will be really appreciated.

travstrong · 29-01-2014 6:04pm

Hi all,

Submitted Stamp 4 application in Sep 2013 just before they changed the rules, and haven't heard anything concrete back since. Sent a letter of enquiry in Dec 2013 and received the usual automated response.
I was wondering if anyone had experience of sending in proof of job offers as a way to expedite things? Is this a good idea to try and speed up the process?
I notice that the GNIB now has a public PDF file containing VISA approval status on their website, I guess its something, judging by numbers, I'm hoping things shouldnt take more than a month more to process, if they actually do work in numerical order.

travstrong · 06-02-2014 11:17am

Just got a rejection notice today, absolutely gutted. It appears they are not accepting time spent outside the State as evidence for a durable relationship.
Submitted very detailed information showing daily correspondence for this period, but to no avail.
Does anyone have any suggestions? Is an appeal worthwhile, or legal recourse?

Bull_Boy · 06-02-2014 12:08pm

travstrong wrote: »

Just got a rejection notice today, absolutely gutted. It appears they are not accepting time spent outside the State as evidence for a durable relationship.
Submitted very detailed information showing daily correspondence for this period, but to no avail.
Does anyone have any suggestions? Is an appeal worthwhile, or legal recourse?

Trust me, they will make it as difficult as possible. We sent an application in, and before we heard back the rules changed. 2 weeks after the changes, we got rejected, and they had used the new criteria. I am the foreigner in the relationship, my girlfriend of over 4 years is Irish, and I'm here on a student visa.

There were problems with the student visa too, because I'm doing the ACCA. We wound up having to go to a solicitor. Even she said the de-facto thing is very tough to get if you haven't lived together in Ireland for 2 years. We went after the student visa and got that done.

I'd say witht his big anti-foreigner move that they govt. are trying to clone from the UK, there are probably quotas for non-assylum applicants. Be ready to play the waiting game. They will not see you personally, and there is no longer any phone line. Snail-mail is the only language these poor old folks understand.

Sorry to have to say that, but it is what I found.

sunshineab · 06-02-2014 12:19pm

Hi there,

travstrong · 06-02-2014 12:34pm

Hi Bullboy, thanks for your experience

What problems did you find with the student visa, do they not recognise accountancy courses as valid courses for a student visa?

Did the solicitor thing work out for you in the end regarding de facto matters, or was the student visa your backup plan?

It does seem indeed that they are following the lead of the UK, as with most things in this country.

sunshineab · 06-02-2014 12:43pm

sunshineab wrote: »

Hi there,

I'm sorry to hear about your rejection. I also got one too. We applied two weeks after the changes and received the rejection letter 4 weeks later.
It's very clear that you haven't lived together for 2 years that you'll be rejected. We were aware of this but tried anyway. They are making things very difficult. You must be in a relationship akin to marriage. ( and trust me we had enough prove of our intentions and were together over two years, but we haven't lived together)
In our case we sent an appeal letter 4 weeks later just to see what they'd get back with ( we were happy to get even stamp 3) but two days after we appealed l found out that we were expecting a baby so we sent a follow up letter from my doctor and 4 weeks later they replied saying that they I was granted stamp 3 due to exceptional circumstances. When our child is born I'll get stamp 4 automatically.
Do appeal but I don't see the point of getting a lawyer. He's just going to write an appeal letter that you can easily write yourself. Don't give up and best of luck with it.
It really sucks but unfortunately they are changed the rules and we just need to adjust to it

Cushie Butterfield · 06-02-2014 12:48pm

sunshineab wrote:

...4 weeks later they replied saying that they I was granted stamp 3 due to exceptional circumstances. When our child is born I'll get stamp 4 automatically.

That's great news!

travstrong · 06-02-2014 1:05pm

Congratulations sunshineab, I'm really glad you guys managed to get approved after the appeal. I can't imagine the stress of worrying about visa issues while dealing with all the pregnancy stuff at the same time.

Unfortunately, I'm not really seeing much grounds for a successful appeal in our case

Fair point about the lawyer, friends of mine had success with one in the past, but that was before the new regulations, she was from another EU country aswell, plus they did shell out quite a lot of cash.

Just found out yesterday that I had extremely high blood pressure for my age. I don't suppose this could count as extenuating circumstances, given the stress of the last few months....

sunshineab · 06-02-2014 1:18pm

Mmmm I don't know if the high blood pressure will count but you should definitely mention it

what visa do you have at the moment? Can you get the student visa maybe and then apply again in the future? I was on student visa for 6 years so that wasn't an option for us.
Maybe even the work visa?
Keep us updated and do appeal is worth a try. If you could just apply for a student visa and study for 2 years and than apply for defacto would be better.

travstrong · 06-02-2014 1:26pm

sunshineab wrote: »

Mmmm I don't know if the high blood pressure will count but you should definitely mention it what visa do you have at the moment? Can you get the student visa maybe and then apply again in the future? I was on student visa for 6 years so that wasn't an option for us.
Maybe even the work visa?
Keep us updated and do appeal is worth a try. If you could just apply for a student visa and study for 2 years and than apply for defacto would be better.

Yes, I guess the student visa is really the only recourse at the moment, my partner is interested in studying further although cost of fees etc is a bit of an issue as English courses etc are no longer valid at this stage, coupled with the fact that finding part-time jobs has become exponentially more difficult in recent times. Stamp 4 would have been a real lifeline.
Will definitely appeal the decision, but not sure what grounds would be valid tbh, ever hopeful.

sunshineab · 06-02-2014 1:38pm

So it's not all lost for you guys.
Just buy a cheap course because I know that there are lots out there.
But yea the par time job sucks but at least there's something out there.
Good luck

Bull_Boy · 06-02-2014 2:05pm

travstrong wrote: »

Hi Bullboy, thanks for your experience

What problems did you find with the student visa, do they not recognise accountancy courses as valid courses for a student visa?

Did the solicitor thing work out for you in the end regarding de facto matters, or was the student visa your backup plan?

It does seem indeed that they are following the lead of the UK, as with most things in this country.

The problem was that the ACCA is a professional qualification. It is not strictly speaking a 'degree', although on the NFQ guidelines it is a level 9, same as a Masters degree.

The solicitor said that the de-facto thing would be very difficult, because we haven't been living together for 2 years. She said it is incredibly rare for those to be granted. I suspect they only do it if a child is expected, but that's just my opinion.

Eventually the student visa was the way to go. I had been waiting for the Student Review Group for over a year, that is why I got the solicitor involved. That sped the process up and got things sorted.

They will drag their feet and kill as much time as possible, probably in the hopes that people will just give up and leave. It smacks of the same underhanded tactics some insurance companies have when they approach a claim: Deny them all, and only help out the ones who make a fuss.

annabanana922 · 18-02-2014 2:29pm

Hi All,

Does anyone know the current waiting time approximately? We sent in a huge folder in mid November, I know it usually takes around six months but is it currently much longer? We have lived together for over two years and have proof from all of our landlords, but I am still worried we might be rejected. Anyone have any tips of what else is good to send in?

Thanks!

OldNotWIse · 18-02-2014 2:39pm

annabanana922 wrote: »

Hi All,

Does anyone know the current waiting time approximately? We sent in a huge folder in mid November, I know it usually takes around six months but is it currently much longer? We have lived together for over two years and have proof from all of our landlords, but I am still worried we might be rejected. Anyone have any tips of what else is good to send in?

Thanks!

Seems to be hit and miss tbh. We were almost a year waiting for no apparent reason. Never asked to submit additional documentation. PM sent too

FalconXV · 25-02-2014 12:56pm

travstrong wrote: »

Just got a rejection notice today, absolutely gutted. It appears they are not accepting time spent outside the State as evidence for a durable relationship.
Submitted very detailed information showing daily correspondence for this period, but to no avail.
Does anyone have any suggestions? Is an appeal worthwhile, or legal recourse?

That's nonsense as I had most of my relationship outside of the country.

perfectblue · 25-02-2014 1:01pm

FalconXV wrote: »

That's nonsense as I had most of my relationship outside of the country.

When did you apply FalconXV? My whole relationship was out of the country (in two countries, actually) but I happened to apply before the rules changed. I would be rejected today I'm sure.

I'm curious now if "outside the country" means both partners or just one? If you both lived in Thailand for example for 2 years together, does that work? Or do they want the couple to live in Ireland specifically? It's mindboggling that immigration laws can't reflect modern realities of people living in multiple countries for various valid reasons (including work and school) and meeting partners in multiple ways.

Ireland De-Facto Visa

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