Ireland De-Facto Visa

ballooba

I can't find anywhere better to post this question. I'm looking for experiences on getting a de-facto visa as a non-EEA national and the partner of an Irish citizen. My girlfriend is thinking of coming to live with me in Ireland for a while and I need to make sure we have our bases covered on time. What do we need to prove to get her a visa?

We will have been going out over 2 years, living together for more than 6 months, can get a joint bank account if necessary. Anything else?

sideshowsue

See the INIS website for more details: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000278

This is another good website: http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewforum.php?f=34

Typically the INIS looks for two years' worth of evidence of a de facto, 'durable relationship duly attested.' The fact that you've only been living together for 6 months is a potential snag. But nothing ventured, nothing gained.

ballooba

Thanks for the reply. We're actually planning this for 15 months time. So we do have a bit of time to get our house in order if you'll excuse the pun. We will be a bit over the two years but don't currently live together.

I'm basing the 6 months on the Australian requirements. I thought that Ireland would be similarly practical. The information on the INIS site is a bit vague for my liking but I'll look at the other one. It's interesting as an Irish citizen to see how different Ireland's immigration system is to Australia's. It seems a lot less mature to say the least.

ballooba

That website was very useful, thanks. Looks like we will be fine.
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=51956

Don't necessarily have to live together it seems.

tatli_lokma

ballooba wrote: »

That website was very useful, thanks. Looks like we will be fine.
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=51956

Don't necessarily have to live together it seems.

don't get too carried away! i'm married to a non-EU national, and even as a married couple it is not straight forward. I have heard of them refusing married couples, so proving the validity of the relationship without a marriage cert is even more difficult.
good luck with it, but hope for the best, prepare for the worst!

jellybeans

Hi all, my boyfriend is Croatian and I am Irish. We were thinking of applying for the defacto visa this week as he has been offered a full time job. We are together under 2 years but we have been living together for the last 4 months. Also it has just been confirmed that Croatia will become an EU member on 1st July 2013. Can someone just give some advice on what we have to do to submit an application for a de-facto visa and also do you think it's advisable to submit documentation about Croatia's membership to the EU?? Im just not sure what angle to be coming from?? Thanks

Delancey

I was unaware that Ireland recognised De Facto for immigration purposes . Maybe we're not as backward as I thought.

x in the city

Ireland is an absolute balls of a country for non nationals, visa wise

Jim2007

jellybeans wrote: »

Hi all, my boyfriend is Croatian and I am Irish. We were thinking of applying for the defacto visa this week as he has been offered a full time job. At the moment he is on a student visa! We are together 22 months (not quite the 2 years) but we have been living together for the last 4 months. Also it has just been confirmed that Croatia will become an EU member on 1st July 2013. Can someone just give some advice on what we have to do to submit an application for a de-facto visa and also do you think it's advisable to submit documentation about Croatia's membership to the EU?? Im just not sure what angle to be coming from?? Thanks

This link from the INIS states that you need to be able to show documentary evidence of living together for at least two years before they will accept your relationship.

The status of Croatia visa via the EU will not be considered, as there is nothing in the current rules to allow them to take it in to account. Furthermore, Croatia's membership is expected, but not a given at this point in time and even after it does join, you should not be surprised if there is a transition period with respect to the free movement of peoples, given the current economic climate.

Also, I would not volunteer the fact that he has been job hunting on a student visa, as it might well put his status into question...

Jim.

ballooba

Currently going through this process ourselves, this document has been a godsend:
http://www.migrantproject.ie/documents/ResidencyInformationforFamilyMembersandPartnersofIrishCitizens02.2011_002.pdf

I'd forget about the Croatian EU angle for the moment, if it happens then you don't need to worry about all this stuff, until then you're stuck with the same process as the rest of non-EEA.

jellybeans

thanks guys for your replies and thanks for the pdf I don't think you have to be living together for the enitre 2 years do you? also we will be just under the 2 years when we will apply, we'll be more like 20 months, do you think this will be a problem???? the other thing is my boyfriend is planning on doing a master in 2012, as proof of our relationship I have printed off emails and most of the emails i have sent him have been in relation to his Masters, do you think it's unwise to state that we want him to stay here to work to save for his masters which he will do hopefully in Sept 2012..:( or should we just say he wants to stay so we can be together which is obviously the main reason!!! I was thinking of just being honest and saying what our intention is ie the masters and then getting married etc but then Im nervous of saying the wrong thing and if we dont get it

tatli_lokma

jellybeans wrote: »

thanks guys for your replies and thanks for the pdf I don't think you have to be living together for the enitre 2 years do you? also we will be just under the 2 years when we will apply, we'll be more like 20 months, do you think this will be a problem???? the other thing is my boyfriend is planning on doing a master in 2012, as proof of our relationship I have printed off emails and most of the emails i have sent him have been in relation to his Masters,

Given you are only living together 4 months, this is not very long at all as far as the authorities are concerned. In order to back this up you will need to show proof of your relationship for the 22 mths - emails as far as I remember from our application are not enough. When they say documentary evidence they mean joint bank accounts, bills,photos showing a relationship etc - emails are not given much weight given how easily they can be doctored.

If you have not already done so, you need to get bank accounts, bill etc in joint names as this is what they mean by documentary proof.

ResearchWill

First of all my advice is to go to a solicitor who knows this area. There are huge differences between an Irish person having a non EEA partner and an EEA person having a non EEA partner. As the European citizen is covered by the free movement directive.

If you are thinking of doing this in 15 months then I would apply for a visit visa through INIS, have the person visit and return a few times. Also visit them if possible in their country. Then when you want to have the person join you get a join partner visa. Then you will apply for a stamp 4 permission to reside and work. That process can take up to a year. To be honest this area of law is a minefield. I have seen so many people get caught up in a nightmare of red tape doing it themselves. Get good legal advice from a solicitor who works in the area. If you want to know who is good ask people you may know in the situation.

If as your post may imply ye are both living in a third country, then just make sure ye have all bills together, rent agreement etc. And when you are moving back apply for correct visa, and stamp 4. Be warned as I said above the stamp 4 can take some time with no right to work while waiting.

LoGiE

Hi,

Have a look at this thread. It has a few peoples experiences including my own.

Good luck!

Pablo Sanchez

Dont worry you dont have to be living togeather for the two years. Just complie old emails, photos etc that can prove that you have been togeather for the two years. The state cant force you to 'live in sin' to show you have a genuine relationship:D

tatli_lokma

Pablo Sanchez wrote: »

Dont worry you dont have to be living togeather for the two years. Just complie old emails, photos etc that can prove that you have been togeather for the two years. The state cant force you to 'live in sin' to show you have a genuine relationship:D

Its not that u can be forced 2 live in sin, but emails and photos in themselves are not enough - you are looking for a visa on a defacto basis, ie that you are common law partners, in a long term committed relationship. It is not enough 2 be going out together, that is not defacto. Emails and photos will help but u'll have to show other examples of ur real commitments such as joint bank accounts, joint tenancy, joint bills etc. Plus with photos it helps if you have ones at family occasions, social occasions, with a mix of people, not just the pair of you.

befriend1

Hi Guys

I am hoping someone with experience in this area can help. My boyfriend and I are applying for the de-facto visa this November. We live together and can provide letters, pictures etc and hope this stuff proves our relationship.

However I have just finished college (last month - it was a postgraduate course) and am currently unemployed. I have basically no funds other than social welfare and worry this might affect our chances.

Do you think they will dismiss our application based on my current inability to support him, if needed?

Any information or advice would be greatly appreciated.. thank you

Pablo Sanchez

befriend1 wrote: »

Hi Guys

I am hoping someone with experience in this area can help. My boyfriend and I are applying for the de-facto visa this November. We live together and can provide letters, pictures etc and hope this stuff proves our relationship.

However I have just finished college (last month - it was a postgraduate course) and am currently unemployed. I have basically no funds other than social welfare and worry this might affect our chances.

Do you think they will dismiss our application based on my current inability to support him, if needed?

Any information or advice would be greatly appreciated.. thank you

I stand to be corrected but i dont think they focus too much on the financial side of things, i wouldnt be overly worried about the fact that you may not be able to support him.

ballooba

I went through this process recently and it was very very difficult. Nothing like the walk in the park you would understand from reading here. Are you waiting until November so that you have two years co-habitation? I would apply sooner rather than later because it takes so long. I think if both of you or at least one can get a job offer it will greatly improve your chances.

Pablo Sanchez

You dont need to be co habiting to get the visa, simply to be able to show a relationship exists.

ballooba

You might be correct about the co-habiting, or you might be wrong, the process is a bit of a black box for me. I think "simply to be able to show a relationship exists" is a little bit of an understatement though. They did not accept our evidence the first time even though we had proved two years, as far as we ere concerned. We had to submit more proof and wait again for a response. The wait seems to be about 8 weeks.

Delancey

befriend1 wrote: »

Hi Guys

I am hoping someone with experience in this area can help. My boyfriend and I are applying for the de-facto visa this November. We live together and can provide letters, pictures etc and hope this stuff proves our relationship.

However I have just finished college (last month - it was a postgraduate course) and am currently unemployed. I have basically no funds other than social welfare and worry this might affect our chances.

Do you think they will dismiss our application based on my current inability to support him, if needed?

Any information or advice would be greatly appreciated.. thank you

My ( albeit limited ) knowledge and understanding of these things is that your current situation of being unemployed and presumably short of funds will most definitely be taken into account - and not to your advantage I'm sorry to say.

befriend1

Thanks guys..

Well he is employed but neither of us have savings and we live in my family home, so I hope that helps. His visa is up in November, that's the rational for the timing.

Guess I will have to try find a job ASAP.

FalconXV

Hi. I applied for the Defacto leave to remain on September 14. Five weeks ago. They sent me a correspondence letter a day later to say they have received my application. We started going out in March 2009. I met my partner in London and my UK Working Holiday visa expired in September 2009 so I obtained an Irish working holiday permit which lasted for 12 months. I had to go back to Australia in October 2010 as my visa had expired and we hadn't been together for 2 years. The INIS gave me a Stamp 3 permit which meant I couldn't work. She came out to Australia for 3 weeks in March for my cousin's wedding. I stayed in Australia till September this year for family reasons (my cousin and grandma had passed away) and landed back in Ireland. You have to be in the country to apply. The Gards renewed my Stamp 3 for another 12 months while I am waiting for my application. I didn't have any problems with getting back in to the country.

In my application I included

Joint Account details
Bank statements of individual accounts.
Birthday cards
Photos
Letters from my parents and hers
Letter from a former Tuinaste (sp?)
Letter from my previous employer here who is willing to take me back. I was on a Working Holiday permit previously.
Match tickets, holiday schedules, concerts that we attended
Invitations to my cousin's wedding in Australia
Letters to support our application
Photocopies of every page from both passports
Copies of all the GNIB cards I have had (important).
A letter from the VHI saying that I have private health insurance and won't be relying on the HSE for medical care (important)
Pay slips from both parties

Don't forget that your partner is Irish is also applying for the leave to remain so they will do checks on him/her. They will probably reconcile both bank accounts. No doubt there is a police check in there as well to make sure that you are of good character. If you have been involved in community activities such as sport get a letter from your club. Since I got back I spoke to my previous employer and he said he will help me get back in to the company once I get my visa. You will need to show that you have at least 3000 euro in your account to support yourself and aren't relying on social welfare to survive. Remember you aren't applying for an actual visa

sophie4187

so did you get approved or your still waiting? i sent mine off the week before you and haven't heard anything yet

FalconXV

Still waiting Sophie. Managed to get hold of them twice on the phone which is a feat in itself. The line is only open each Thursday from 10am-12pm. Options 3 and 5. So you have twenty minutes to ring them. They said they are waiting for correspondence from other departments before getting in touch with me. They won't tell me how long it will take and what departments they are. I have written them a letter and they didn't respond to my answer I am guessing that they have nothing to tell me.

FalconXV

I say your application must have been fine if they haven't got back to you about missing info.

ballooba

FalconXV wrote: »

I say your application must have been fine if they haven't got back to you about missing info.

That's a big assumption.;) We waited 8 weeks for a grant of a Stamp 3. Which isn't really worth much. I'd advise applicants not to be complacent or expect too much.

FalconXV

ballooba wrote: »

That's a big assumption.;) We waited 8 weeks for a grant of a Stamp 3. Which isn't really worth much. I'd advise applicants not to be complacent or expect too much.

You probably went through the same background checks as you would for a De Facto

ballooba

FalconXV wrote: »

ballooba wrote: »

That's a big assumption.;) We waited 8 weeks for a grant of a Stamp 3. Which isn't really worth much. I'd advise applicants not to be complacent or expect too much.

You probably went through the same background checks as you would for a De Facto

Stamp 3 is an effective denial of Stamp 4, which is "De-facto". Regarding background checks, I don't believe the standard process incorporates one. I've never heard of anyone undergoing them either. The eight weeks is purely an administrative delay as far as I am aware.

FalconXV

ballooba wrote: »

Stamp 3 is an effective denial of Stamp 4, which is "De-facto". Regarding background checks, I don't believe the standard process incorporates one. I've never heard of anyone undergoing them either. The eight weeks is purely an administrative delay as far as I am aware.

Yeah it does require background checks. No immigration department would grant visas without doing it. They need to check if you have of good health, have no criminal record, that your finances are accurate plus your partner will get checks too. When I was given my stamp 3 it was for 12 months so I had to prove that I could support myself as I wasn't allowed to work. The reason why no one would tell you that you didn't undergo any checks is because the Department of Justice doesn't give you any information about your application.

My UK working holiday visa required a police check as it was done in Australia didn't take too long.

sophie4187

FalconXV wrote: »

I say your application must have been fine if they haven't got back to you about missing info.

Here's to hoping. My 3-month tourist visa expires in about a month... hoping I hear something by then. Sent everything you mentioned...though my partner is supporting me as I am on a tourist visa and can't work. Fingers crossed anyway.

FalconXV

sophie4187 wrote: »

Here's to hoping. My 3-month tourist visa expires in about a month... hoping I hear something by then. Sent everything you mentioned...though my partner is supporting me as I am on a tourist visa and can't work. Fingers crossed anyway.

You should get an answer soon. Surely you could just fly from London and back or just go to your local immigration gard and say that you are waiting on a visa application and see if they can stamp it for another 3 months you will probably have to pay 150 euros for a new GNIB card

Colonel Panic

My girlfriend got her stamp 4 in September using the defacto relationship route. It was all quite painless really, but it did take around 4 months to get an answer.

In terms of evidence, we'd been living together for 9 months so we had lease and bills in our name but they still wanted things like wedding invitations, pictures and emails. It's weird, I never email my girlfriend about anything!

FalconXV

Colonel Panic wrote: »

My girlfriend got her stamp 4 in September using the defacto relationship route. It was all quite painless really, but it did take around 4 months to get an answer.

In terms of evidence, we'd been living together for 9 months so we had lease and bills in our name but they still wanted things like wedding invitations, pictures and emails. It's weird, I never email my girlfriend about anything!

4 months is ridiculous was the whole department on holiday during the summer or something?

ballooba

FalconXV wrote: »

Yeah it does require background checks. No immigration department would grant visas without doing it.

With respect, I think you are confusing what should happen and what does happen. I've seen no evidence to support the existence of these checks. I know that the Australian government does require these checks, in fact they require the applicant to obtain the police reports from the overseas jurisdictions. This would be one obvious reason why such background checks would not be possible for the INIS. They have no permission to request your personal information and you are not requested to provide it.

Colonel Panic

FalconXV wrote: »

4 months is ridiculous was the whole department on holiday during the summer or something?

That's just bureaucracy for you. You post stuff in, they post a letter back either asking for more info or to acknowledge what you got, that all lands in someone else'd in pile, they review it, someone else signs off on it, they got into another pile etc etc.

I would imagine that a lot of Irish nationals with foreign partners are applying for a visa this way, in particular gay couples for whom marriage isn't an option or in our case, marriage isn't desirable.

FalconXV

ballooba wrote: »

With respect, I think you are confusing what should happen and what does happen. I've seen no evidence to support the existence of these checks. I know that the Australian government does require these checks, in fact they require the applicant to obtain the police reports from the overseas jurisdictions. This would be one obvious reason why such background checks would not be possible for the INIS. They have no permission to request your personal information and you are not requested to provide it.

As you have been residing in the state they can run police checks on you in Ireland. They wouldn't be telling me over the phone that my application is hands of other departments otherwise.

ballooba

sophie4187 wrote: »

Here's to hoping. My 3-month tourist visa expires in about a month... hoping I hear something by then. Sent everything you mentioned...though my partner is supporting me as I am on a tourist visa and can't work. Fingers crossed anyway.

We were told to go to Burgh Quay if this issue arose. They should issue another 3 months.

FalconXV

Colonel Panic wrote: »

That's just bureaucracy for you. You post stuff in, they post a letter back either asking for more info or to acknowledge what you got, that all lands in someone else'd in pile, they review it, someone else signs off on it, they got into another pile etc etc.

I would imagine that a lot of Irish nationals with foreign partners are applying for a visa this way, in particular gay couples for whom marriage isn't an option or in our case, marriage isn't desirable.

They said to me that my documents were fine it's now a waiting game.

ballooba

FalconXV wrote: »

As you have been residing in the state they can run police checks on you in Ireland. They wouldn't be telling me over the phone that my application is hands of other departments otherwise.

You're making an assumption with insufficient basis in my opinion. I have seen no evidence that background checks are performed. I highly doubt they are performed by default, for the reasons outlined.

Colonel Panic

FalconXV wrote: »

They said to me that my documents were fine it's now a waiting game.

Well, looking at your previous post, you've got more info than myself and my girlfriend did so I think you'll be fine!

FalconXV

ballooba wrote: »

You're making an assumption with insufficient basis in my opinion. I have seen no evidence that background checks are performed. I highly doubt they are performed by default, for the reasons outlined.

You are naive to think that otherwise they will be giving visas to people left right and centre.

FalconXV

Colonel Panic wrote: »

Well, looking at your previous post, you've got more info than myself and my girlfriend did so I think you'll be fine!

I hope so. My previous employer is being very patient with this. I have contacted my local TD to help my case.

ballooba

FalconXV wrote: »

You are naive to think that otherwise they will be giving visas to people left right and centre.

Again, with respect, I think you are the one being naive. You're making assumptions on the basis of what you think should happen. There is no evidence to back up your assertions. I've outlined what I believe to be the case. You seem to be of a differing view, which is your prerogative.

FalconXV

ballooba wrote: »

Again, with respect, I think you are the one being naive. You're making assumptions on the basis of what you think should happen. There is no evidence to back up your assertions. I've outlined what I believe to be the case. You seem to be of a differing view, which is your prerogative.

No point in arguing with you. I am glad you aren't in Government running an immigration department. You should join Fianna Fail they like bent people

ballooba

FalconXV wrote: »

No point in arguing with you. I am glad you aren't in Government running an immigration department. You should join Fianna Fail they like bent people

That's a ridiculous (and defamatory) statement, again completely without basis. Any statement I have made is on the basis of how the department is run. I've made no reference to how I think it should be run. You on the other hand have made assertions about how the department is run that are completely devoid of reality, and based purely on shoddy hypotheses. Your posts here are frankly unhelpful, in my opinion, as they are misleading.

FalconXV

ballooba wrote: »

That's a ridiculous (and defamatory) statement, again completely without basis. Any statement I have made is on the basis of how the department is run. I've made no reference to how I think it should be run. You on the other hand have made assertions about how the department is run that are completely devoid of reality, and based purely on shoddy hypotheses. Your posts here are frankly unhelpful, in my opinion, as they are misleading.

It's up to other people to decide on what advice (which is what this thread is all about) they take from here. It's an opinion forum and if you don't like what people write so be it don't shoot them down for it. Grow up.

ballooba

Absolutely, I've quite respectfully disagreed with your hypotheses. It's up to others what opinion they form. It's a difficult process and there's plenty of misinformation to fill the vacuum. Best of luck with your application.

FalconXV

Just rang the GNIB and they said that a letter has been sent out yesterday. A nervous wait. Will probably get it tomorrow

sophie4187

Got letter from INIS in the mail, requesting for a clearer copy of a page in my passport, as well as evidence of all finances available to me (i.e. 6 month bank statements, payslips, etc.)

I'm confused about the latter, as we sent in a copy of my partner's bank statement, our joint bank statement, as well as my bank statement from the United States. We also included my partner's most recent payslips. I don't have any payslips, as the times I have been here in Ireland, I have not been legally able to work. When I was on my Working Holiday Visa, I was also unable to find work, so I don't have any payslips for myself.

My partner makes 1200 every 2 weeks and has been supporting me each time I've stayed here.

Should I just send in bank statements from further back, as well as more payslips from my partner?

Also, about my passport - it says if the page is hard to read, I'll need to send it in, via registered post, which is fine, however - I have a trip booked to the UK on the 3-5 of November, which I'll need my passport for. Do you think I'll get it back in time?