Ireland De-Facto Visa

tatli_lokma

travstrong wrote: »

Hi all,
Just a quick question regarding De Facto applications.
I gather from reading threads like this one and others that private health insurance is mandatory for de facto applications, although this is not explicitly mentioned anywhere on the INIS website.

It doesn't have to be mentioned - they cover themselves by saying
"[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica]The above is not an exhaustive list, and you may be asked for additional documentation in support of your application"[/FONT]

The main thing they are concerned about is that you can support yourselves as a couple in cases of emergency, including health emergencies, without needing to access social welfare assistance. The silly thing about that, is that if you are already here on a valid visa which allows you to work to some extent, you are paying for PRSI which means you have a right to access public hospital treatment anyway. Likewise if your country is one of those with a reciprocal health agreement with Ireland you are entitled to emergency health cover.

But from my experience, it is much better if you have either private health insurance or at least travel insurance which covers you for living abroad for at least a year. It seems to reassure them.

travstrong

True, I guess they can't mention everything. Was just checking out to see if anyone had concrete info about the type of insurance that was acceptable before going out and buying another one. I guess its the sort of thing that they would flag at some point anyway if the cover wasn't adequate, but obviously we're keen to avoid any setbacks in processing time.
The school insurance says that it covers up to 2,5 million of outpatient and inpatient costs, medical repatriation, ambulance charges etc and is valid for one year. Seems like it should be ok.

OldNotWIse

After nine months of nothingness from INIS, my partner has made the decision to return home. I can't go with her - my life is here - college, work, family, friends and yet, I can't implore her to stay in a country where she has no identity, no right to support herself, where she must essentially live under the radar, like a rat. Nobody should have to live that way. I feel like my insides are being torn apart. It's hard to keep it all together. Thanks INIS, thank you so much. You've made Ireland a bigger sh1thole. Oh and while we're on the matter, thanks god too! You leave me with nothing, and still expect me to make something - and I say fuuck you

Sorry.

tatli_lokma

We love our postman today! finally after 8 months we received confirmation that my husband has been approved to be naturalised! Now all we need to do is send off the money, and some other original documents and then he will be advised of his citizenship ceremony date and time. I think there is one scheduled for 21st October, so hopefully it will all be finalised by then.

Are the ceremonies every month does anyone know? I know there are a few per day usually - does anyone know what times and how long each ceremony takes?

OldNotWIse

Sorry to bump. Does anyone know if there is any point in say turning up at INIS first thing tomorrow morning and trying to speak to someone to at least see what stage of the application process things are at? Desperate now. OH has missed two job opportunities and is close to returning home. I simply dont know what to do anymore. Its been 10 months since we applied. The helpline doesnt work (in order to speed up apps - my árse!), you send letters and receive computer generated responses that show your letter wasnt even read. How does one get through to these people?

tatli_lokma

Turning up will do no good. They wouldn't speak to your fiancée, so they certainly won't speak to you as you are not the one applying

When we were applying for hubby's visa, he too had to turn down offers of work because he had no visa yet. So we wrote to INIS and included copies of the job offers as proof and basically said that he was being prevented from being a tax paying and contributing member of Irish society because he was being prevented from working. Two weeks later we had the visa.

rachelp

Hi all,
This thread has been very useful but I'm just interested how people are getting on still and have things changed!!! My boyfriend of 4 years wants to apply for the de facto visa as I'm Irish.. We met here in Ireland, he came here for 4 years of college and graduated last year, and we spent 8 months in China together. At the moment he is back in the USA and trying to figure the best way to apply for the visa. He is considering applying for 12 month working visa and trying to transfer it to the de facto. Has anyone any recommendations on this or how should he enter the country before applying for it? We have plenty of evidence that we have been in a relationship for 4 years as we lived together from the very beginning and I spent a summer in the USA with him also, but if anyone has any hints or tips to make the process any easier it will be greatly appreciated!!! Also, how long does it normally take to be granted? Thanks

DZ21

Hi All. My boyfriend and I have found this thread to be very helpful during our application process so I thought I would contribute our experiences thus far.
I am American and my boyfriend is Irish. We met while I was on a 1 year working holiday visa and lived together for almost the whole year. After, I returned home for the year after until we were eligible to apply for the visa. I had a job working for the airlines for the year so we were able to visit each other every few weeks during our time apart.
In July, I quit my job and flew over here to apply for the visa. We submitted a very large binder including everything that others had recommended such as:
- proof of living together
- about 100 photographs with labels of who,where, and when each photo was taken
- screenshots of skype (We sent a few we had taken during video chats with the date in the bottom corner of the screen), email in-boxes, facebook (I used the relationship page to show dates when we first met etc.)
- cards and invitations to weddings
- 8 letters from friends and family
- proof of medical insurance
- proof of finances including money transfers to one another and bank accounts
- My CV/Resume
- My boyfriend's proof of employment as well as a letter from his boss attesting to our relationship and my bf's stake in the company
- photocopies of every page of our passports
- airline and hotel reservations
- letters from each of us attesting to our past and future plans together
- and anything else we could think of. I think in all it was over 100 pages.

As with everyone else, we got a letter within 2 days stating that our application had been received.
It's been 2 months and we haven't heard anything yet. It's seems like some people are lucky and it happens rather quickly but in general, I think were in it for the long haul.
My advice is if you are planning to have someone move here to apply for the visa, anticipate being a sole provider for quite sometime. We stayed with my boyfriends family for a while to make sure we could afford living on our own with only one of us working. His mother included in her letter for us that she was happy to have us stay in her home while we waited for the application to process.
Also, be sure to include enough evidence with dates. Photographs are great but you can't prove when they were taken. So make sure to submit enough evidence with dates from beginning to now.
The applicant for the visa must be in the country when applying and from what I gather, can really only leave during the first initial 3 months. But once the tourist visa has expired, you won't be allowed to re-enter so I would not make any plans for holidays.
I will be sure to post an update if and when we here something to give an idea of how long our application takes. So far, we have not been asked to provide any additional information.
Thanks to everyone who has posted on here! It's been a huge help to us! God knows we won't be getting help from anyone else!

alianoelle

DZ21 wrote: »

As with everyone else, we got a letter within 2 days stating that our application had been received.

We submitted 5 weeks ago via registered post and still have not had a response, I wonder if anyone else has experienced a delay in receiving their confirmation?

alianoelle

I've been checking every couple of weeks, and I just noticed that INIS have updated their content on de facto visas and there are some new requirements (e.g. Police clearance from home country, and the requirement that you must be physically living together for the previous 2 years, not just in a durable relationship.)

Not sure how this will impact existing applications...We've been living together for 6 years prior, but we didn't include a police clearance in our application, and it's a lot harder to get once you're no longer in the country. I went to my embassy today and they gave me the forms. I'll need to pay Garda to take my fingerprints, then send the fingerprints with a bank draft in my home currency and wait ~22 weeks for the police back home to grant me clearance.

On the upside, INIS now list the processing time as "up to 6 months" rather than up to a year, so fingers crossed.

OldNotWIse

For applications received on or after Monday 23rd September 2013, in order to assess whether the couple is in a genuine long-term relationship, it will be necessary for the couple to provide dated documentary evidence of cohabitation for at least the preceding 2 years immediately prior to the date of application. Partners who are not living together at the time of the Application will be required to give compelling reasons for this.

Also, 6 months? Sorry but that is a fuucking fairytale. We have been waiting for ten months.

Patrin

OldNotWIse wrote: »

For applications received on or after Monday 23rd September 2013, in order to assess whether the couple is in a genuine long-term relationship, it will be necessary for the couple to provide dated documentary evidence of cohabitation for at least the preceding 2 years immediately prior to the date of application. Partners who are not living together at the time of the Application will be required to give compelling reasons for this.

Great so now the fact I was umeployed for a couple of years after college will ruin the application because she had to move back to US until we could afford to be together nearly 3 years on. They better accept that as a compelling reason. System is a joke when real couples have to jump through hoops. 8 years of photos, family letters, 12 transatlantic trips but no landlord letter no visa ****ing hell.

tatli_lokma

I would also argue that it's a bit discriminatory that you have to live together for 2 years. What about the cultures, religions and just personal beliefs that prevent some people from living together? Many Muslims would not live together prior to marriage. Because they don't live together and sleep together does that mean their relationship is less valid than a couple who do live together?

Plus the fact that one partner needs a visa kinda impedes living together!! My husband is Turkish and we did live together in Turkey. But had we not and just continued having a long distance relationship, how in gods name do they expect you to live together? Because not all nationals can get a visa at the border? So if one partner can't get a visa to enter the country its kind of impossible to come here and live together. Not everyone is applying for a defacto to stay, some need it just to get here at all?

OldNotWIse

Patrin wrote: »

Great so now the fact I was umeployed for a couple of years after college will ruin the application because she had to move back to US until we could afford to be together nearly 3 years on. They better accept that as a compelling reason. System is a joke when real couples have to jump through hoops. 8 years of photos, family letters, 12 transatlantic trips but no landlord letter no visa ****ing hell.

Couldnt agree with you more. My OH doesnt even talk to me now about this. In fact, she doesn't talk to me about anything. I reckon she's gearing up to go home. She will probably give it until the end of the week and thats it. Fuuck you INIS. I dont know what they are doing over there that it has taken them ten months and still nothing.

rachelp

Can anyone tell me how much is the application costs?

travstrong

Currently, the application itself costs absolutely nothing, although if you factor in stationery costs and blood, sweat and tears it can run a bit higher.

OldNotWIse

Oh great, now she's saying she will go back to her home country but I cant go with her...but she wont be breaking up with me....er...how does that work?We'll just manage our relationship across the seas? Swear I'm going to hit INIS for my therapists bill when this all ends! :pac: Do they not realise they are messing with people's lives. When I think about the day we went there to apply. Two romantic fools, so in love and so happy to be doing this thing together. Little did we know the battle that was ahead of us. The constant going in circles, the ups and downs, the nothingness, the wall of silence. The waiting, waiting, waiting... and waiting some more... How long will it be? :mad:

Patrin

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Oh great, now she's saying she will go back to her home country but I cant go with her...but she wont be breaking up with me....er...how does that work?We'll just manage our relationship across the seas? Swear I'm going to hit INIS for my therapists bill when this all ends! :pac: Do they not realise they are messing with people's lives. When I think about the day we went there to apply. Two romantic fools, so in love and so happy to be doing this thing together. Little did we know the battle that was ahead of us. The constant going in circles, the ups and downs, the nothingness, the wall of silence. The waiting, waiting, waiting... and waiting some more... How long will it be? :mad:

Sorry to hear that. Shes been in US since 2010 and ive been going made since then, all I can say is that its tough but doable. Hopefully something happens soon for you and your otherhalf can return after a short period. Dreading this process now but mines on her way here dec 1st one way or another.

OldNotWIse

Patrin wrote: »

Sorry to hear that. Shes been in US since 2010 and ive been going made since then, all I can say is that its tough but doable. Hopefully something happens soon for you and your otherhalf can return after a short period. Dreading this process now but mines on her way here dec 1st one way or another.

I hope you guys have better look. We know one couple who got theirs in two months. Luck of the draw I suppose. Never done a long distance relationship, and I think it would be so weird after living together for a number of years. I'm terrifed - but more afraid to lose her completely! We just cant go on like this.

DZ21

The application itself doesn't cost anything but you will have to pay the 300 euros for the Garda card if and when you application is approved.
I know the new requirements listed by INIS and the waiting time is rough but at least Ireland has this as an option? Most countries only give permission to remain if you are engaged or married. Without the possibility of the de facto visa, I'm not sure what we may have had to do at this point. Also, the new requirements are hopefully going to help cut down on the processing times by discouraging faux relationships from applying. Maybe that's why they've instated them. Here's to hoping and remaining optimistic!
Also, has anyone heard if we are going to be required to provide the police certificate from our home countries? It sure does look like quite a pain to get once you have left and would be sure to slow down the application more if we are going to be asked for it. Fingers crossed we don't.

ballooba

We looked at moving to France temporarily at one stage for work reasons. We would have required a civil partnership for my non-EU national fiancee to be allowed work.

The last time we were in with immigration the cop processing the new card told us we could write to INIS and request a longer validity on the Stamp the next time. We've been on de facto Stamp 4 for just over two years now.

alianoelle

Got an email from INIS today to say that I have been granted Stamp 4 for twelve months based on my de facto relationship. So all in all that worked out at about 5 weeks. We had a very straight forward application, that was as clearly laid out as possible, so I imagine it took less time to investigate and process.

I know that the not knowing is hard, but I think that INIS is doing their best to improve the process...hence the updated website.

Good luck to everyone else!

OldNotWIse

alianoelle wrote: »

Got an email from INIS today to say that I have been granted Stamp 4 for twelve months based on my de facto relationship. So all in all that worked out at about 5 weeks. We had a very straight forward application, that was as clearly laid out as possible, so I imagine it took less time to investigate and process.

I know that the not knowing is hard, but I think that INIS is doing their best to improve the process...hence the updated website.


Good luck to everyone else!

I cant believe that! We submitted ours last January and are still waiting... Seems incredibly unfair. OH has missed so many job opportunities, not to mention the strain the wait has put on our relationship. Five weeks?? Maybe we should just submit a new app as the recent ones seem to be taking priority over older ones. We submitted literally everything. Albums, emails, letters, lease, bank statements, bills... :mad:

ballooba

alianoelle wrote: »

Got an email from INIS today to say that I have been granted Stamp 4 for twelve months based on my de facto relationship. So all in all that worked out at about 5 weeks. We had a very straight forward application, that was as clearly laid out as possible, so I imagine it took less time to investigate and process.

I know that the not knowing is hard, but I think that INIS is doing their best to improve the process...hence the updated website.

Good luck to everyone else!

I'm genuinely shocked that they have computers.

OldNotWIse

ballooba wrote: »

I'm genuinely shocked that they have computers.

That they have computers is one thing I know for sure - because every time we write to them we receive a computer generated reply. (The last letter was somewhere along the lines of "can you tell us why we've been waiting 9 months and is there anything we can provide you with to help speed the process up" and the reply?


....please be advised that current waiting time is 6 months, oh and let us know if you change address in the meantime.) I mean, wtf is going on at that office? What are they actually doing?? Lots of coffee to drink and lots of paper to push...

The_Bot

alianoelle wrote: »

Got an email from INIS today to say that I have been granted Stamp 4 for twelve months based on my de facto relationship. So all in all that worked out at about 5 weeks. We had a very straight forward application, that was as clearly laid out as possible, so I imagine it took less time to investigate and process.

I know that the not knowing is hard, but I think that INIS is doing their best to improve the process...hence the updated website.

Good luck to everyone else!

When you say straight forward I would be very grateful if you could let me know what you mean by that (e.g. how long together, how long living together at when applied, overview of what you included on the file etc).

We submitted our application in mid June and are still waiting on a reply. I would have thought my application was also straight forward (together for 3 years and living together for 2 years and included a full, and I mean full, lever arch folder of documents sectioned out with overall executive summary and separate summaries for each section).

Some people get a turnaround in 1 month, you in 5 weeks, others in 3 months, others in 4 months, others in 6 months and others are still waiting after 9 months. I know its all on a case by case basis but, if files are actually dealt with in chronological order, then it seems that some are looked at initially and are simply left sitting there rather than being finished up or questions being issued to the applicants.

OldNotWIse

The_Bot wrote: »

When you say straight forward I would be very grateful if you could let me know what you mean by that (e.g. how long together, how long living together at when applied, overview of what you included on the file etc).

We submitted our application in mid June and are still waiting on a reply. I would have thought my application was also straight forward (together for 3 years and living together for 2 years and included a full, and I mean full, lever arch folder of documents sectioned out with overall executive summary and separate summaries for each section).

Some people get a turnaround in 1 month, you in 5 weeks, others in 3 months, others in 4 months, others in 6 months and others are still waiting after 9 months. I know its all on a case by case basis but, if files are actually dealt with in chronological order, then it seems that some are looked at initially and are simply left sitting there rather than being finished up or questions being issued to the applicants.

Exactly, and I think they should be pulled on this. I actually contacted a solicitor this morning to deal with our issue because it has gone on too long. People being deprived the chance to work and support themselves, travel to see family, relationship stability. Overall being treated like the relationship is sub-standard to others.

travstrong

I don't mean to suggest that there may be some kind of preferential treatment by nationality but I'd be curious to work out if there are different protocols in place for dealing with applicants for different non-EU countries. It might have to do with administrative issues between jurisdictions (e.g translation of background checks, delays in bureaucracy in home countries etc) for example?

alianoelle

The_Bot wrote: »

When you say straight forward I would be very grateful if you could let me know what you mean by that (e.g. how long together, how long living together at when applied, overview of what you included on the file etc).

My understanding of stamp 4 based on de facto was that you are not attempting to show that you are in a relationship, but rather in a relationship equatable to marriage. So, when I say that our application was straight forward, I simply mean that it was relatively simple to demonstrate this, given that our 7-year relationship (6 years living together) was deemed "common law" in my home country and was treated as a marriage in the legal sense (we filed our taxes together, were insured together as spouses, etc.). I also mean straight forward in the sense that we are both working professionals clearly able to demonstrate senior level positions, financial resources, and our move here was as a result of my partner being relocated by his employer who was covering our moving costs.

I included most of what the other posters have mentioned in previous posts, as well as business cards for my financial advisor back home to attest to my finances, a visual schematic showing the timeline of our relationship, a digital copy of everything I included in the binder, and I also included invitations that I had received to speak at conferences that I would not be able to attend if my permit situation was not resolved in the near future.

When I put my application together, I tried to look at it from the perspective of INIS:

• Do they have what they need to determine that your relationship is equatable to a legal marriage? (not just a relationship)
• Is there a clear and persuasive narrative? (I told the story of our relationship, not just providing facts and dates)
• Is it extremely neat, grammatically correct, and well organised?
• And compelling evidence that you will not be a burden to the state, but rather the opposite, a benefit to it (health insurance, strong financials, police clearance [I didn't include this, but it sounds like new applicants should])

Two weeks after submitting, I went down to Burgh Quay and hand delivered a follow-up card, but I have no idea if that made any difference or not. In fact, for all I know it was just complete luck that my application was processed so quickly!

For those waiting unduly long periods of time I would think that visiting Burgh Quay and trying to find an advocate there for your case would be helpful. Everyone at INIS and GNIB that I have dealt with has been extremely kind and understanding. Another poster also recommended the proactive approach yesterday here.

I really hope this helps, and best of luck to everyone.

The_Bot

alianoelle wrote: »

My understanding of stamp 4 based on de facto was that you are not attempting to show that you are in a relationship, but rather in a relationship equatable to marriage. So, when I say that our application was straight forward, I simply mean that it was relatively simple to demonstrate this, given that our 7-year relationship (6 years living together) was deemed "common law" in my home country and was treated as a marriage in the legal sense (we filed our taxes together, were insured together as spouses, etc.). I also mean straight forward in the sense that we are both working professionals clearly able to demonstrate senior level positions, financial resources, and our move here was as a result of my partner being relocated by his employer who was covering our moving costs.

I included most of what the other posters have mentioned in previous posts, as well as business cards for my financial advisor back home to attest to my finances, a visual schematic showing the timeline of our relationship, a digital copy of everything I included in the binder, and I also included invitations that I had received to speak at conferences that I would not be able to attend if my permit situation was not resolved in the near future.

When I put my application together, I tried to look at it from the perspective of INIS:

• Do they have what they need to determine that your relationship is equatable to a legal marriage? (not just a relationship)
• Is there a clear and persuasive narrative? (I told the story of our relationship, not just providing facts and dates)
• Is it extremely neat, grammatically correct, and well organised?
• And compelling evidence that you will not be a burden to the state, but rather the opposite, a benefit to it (health insurance, strong financials, police clearance [I didn't include this, but it sounds like new applicants should])

Two weeks after submitting, I went down to Burgh Quay and hand delivered a follow-up card, but I have no idea if that made any difference or not. In fact, for all I know it was just complete luck that my application was processed so quickly!

For those waiting unduly long periods of time I would think that visiting Burgh Quay and trying to find an advocate there for your case would be helpful. Everyone at INIS and GNIB that I have dealt with has been extremely kind and understanding. Another poster also recommended the proactive approach yesterday here.

I really hope this helps, and best of luck to everyone.

Thanks for the above, I appreciate the time spend in putting the post together.

Certainly the length of time of your relationship/living together and relative socio-economic status makes it a slam dunk once all the documentation is there to back it up, not to mention the effort put into the organisation of your file. One of the most crucial pieces of advice I would ever give someone about to embark on this process is that you reap what you sow in terms of file preparation.