Carl Froch vs George Groves

gaybeer · 25-11-2013 05:51PM

I really enjoyed this fight up until the end. I didn't get to watch it live, followed it on twitter and watched the following morning so was possibly a bit biased watching. I really like watching Groves and Froch as both put on entertaining fights.

I thought the stoppage was a bit premature but not the robbery some people are claiming. My issue is more with the inconsistency than with the stoppage itself. If you stop the fight there than Froch should have been stopped in round one when he got back to his feet and was held up by the ropes and at one or two other points in the fight. Oh and the cards were a joke. How can you find more than 2 rounds for Froch. He was coming into it more but Groves generally having better of the rounds.

As far as the fighters, I was hugely impressed with Groves. He was composed (apart from the final round), picked his shots well and had better speed and power than I expected. I didn't think he was tiring too badly and I think it would have been interesting to see how he coped if he had of made it out of round 9. I don't think it was Froch getting old over night as some people are suggesting, I think that Groves with a very good jab and good hand speed are going to trouble Froch if he is 25 or 35..

I would like to see the rematch as I don't think there is too much else out there for Froch at the moment. Groves his by far his biggest money fight. For Graves there are plenty of options now. Degale, Kessler, Bute....

thisNthat · 25-11-2013 05:53PM

Just watched Groves interview on Sky sports, good interview, I hope there's a rematch but Froch has too much to lose so he'll probably do a David Haye on it,
Was a massive fan of froch but I'd go for groves in the rematch, Respect is earned not given and groves earned his respect from the fans after the fight,
booed in to the arena and cheered out.
I wonder did the ref collect his winnings yet :rolleyes:

darced · 25-11-2013 05:53PM

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deadeye187 · 25-11-2013 05:56PM

This is just another nail in the coffin of the well dead sport of boxing!

Froch is a plastic champ!

But lets call it, who really cares, boxing is beyond a joke at this stage!

gaybeer · 25-11-2013 05:58PM

darced wrote: »

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Arrogant maybe delusional no. He ruined Froch for most of this fight. What do you really disagree with here. He caused a lot of damage in round 6, he will get a bigger slice of the purse if they rematch, he did what he said he would do and got a little unlucky. Boxers have to promote themselves, he wants a rematch and his best way to get it is to get teh public to want it more...

tunguska · 25-11-2013 06:07PM

darced wrote: »

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I thought Froch was in trouble when he was put down in the first round. He did hit his gloves together and yank up his shorts but he was on rubber legs and trying his best to make out like he was brand new. Fair play to him though, he fought back like crazy. Groves had him in trouble a good few times thoughout the fight but he hung in there and turned it around to the point where he had Groves in trouble. No way it should've been stopped though, the ref needed to leave them to it. I think Froch would've knocked Groves out but the ref should've let the fight reach its natural conclusion.
Froch was a dick in the post fight interview though. All he had to say was Groves fought a great fight and left it at that. Instead he was being a passive aggressive little bitch and giving himself backhanded compliments at the same time.

stooge · 25-11-2013 06:10PM

Really enjoyed the fight up until the stoppage. Thought that Froch proved how tough and durable he is after the first count. Groves fought a great fight and fair play to his trainers who got their tactics spot on. I had Froch winning 2 rounds before the stoppage but really did feel that had the ref let it go on he would have finished Groves. Hoping for a rematch but I wouldnt put money on it.

darced · 25-11-2013 06:11PM

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JacksonHeightsOwn · 25-11-2013 06:14PM

gaybeer wrote: »

Arrogant maybe delusional no. He ruined Froch for most of this fight. What do you really disagree with here. He caused a lot of damage in round 6, he will get a bigger slice of the purse if they rematch, he did what he said he would do and got a little unlucky. Boxers have to promote themselves, he wants a rematch and his best way to get it is to get teh public to want it more...

i actually thought McCracken was going to pull Froch out after the 6th to be honest, he got an unmerciful beating in that round

gaybeer · 25-11-2013 06:22PM

darced wrote: »

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Sure Carl got the better of that exchange but its not like Groves was defenceless, he was throwing back. There had been plenty of times in the fight when Groves hurt Carl and Carl got on his bike or tied him up. I think Groves has a genuine reason to feel hard done by

el flaco · 25-11-2013 06:47PM

I loved looking at the two corners during the pre-fight announcements. It was like Homer Simpson v Drederick Tatum.

Froch's corner had a huge entourage with well-known trainers and 18-stone blokes with muscles on their muscles.
Over in Groves corner you had Moe Szyslak and Grandpa Simpson just leaning up against the ropes.

Thankfully it didn't turn out like that fight. Although the ending was just about as controversial....

.....actually, Moe did the right thing, so, his was less controversial

theavenger · 25-11-2013 07:10PM

walshb wrote: »

Problem seems to be the complete divide in both camps on this thread.. Froch wasn't to blame for the "early stoppage." George was winning and was a few rds up. Froch seemed to me to be coming on strong and really putting the pedal down.

The big IF is whether or not George makes it 12 OR Froch makes it 12 had the referee not stopped it. Nobody can say. I could see a strong argument for both making it 12.

How the final 3 rds would have went is guess work. Had Froch won them then it's a close fight. I want a rematch!

100% agree, except I thought round 9 was do or die for Froch, if he didn't get groves out then ne never was. I know he a notoriously slow starter (bute the exception) but thats the worst iv seen him, I can barely recall froch looking to his corner much in his career, I counted at least 3 times on saturday

JacksonHeightsOwn · 25-11-2013 07:42PM

walshb wrote: »

Problem seems to be the complete divide in both camps on this thread.. Froch wasn't to blame for the "early stoppage." George was winning and was a few rds up. Froch seemed to me to be coming on strong and really putting the pedal down.

The big IF is whether or not George makes it 12 OR Froch makes it 12 had the referee not stopped it. Nobody can say. I could see a strong argument for both making it 12.

How the final 3 rds would have went is guess work. Had Froch won them then it's a close fight. I want a rematch!

who would you take this time round?

Its funny, i reckon about 80% of the people that would have backed Froch will change their tune.

And im one of them

Deiseboy01 · 25-11-2013 07:47PM

Strongbow10 wrote: »

shocking stoppage in fairness, even his unorthodox method of stopping the fight (getting Groves in a headlock and pulling him away from Froch) was crazy.

Groves even shipped a heavy bodyshot when the ref was trying to pull him away.

It stank to high heavens last night, Matchroom protecting their cash cow. It was even more scandalous to read the score cards afterward, 2 judges only had a point in it.

Groves was superb last night, honestly didn't expect it at all. Really made Froch look as limited as he predicted pre fight. Turns out it wasn't a lack of respect by Groves post fight, it was his analysis of Froch's flaws having clearly studied him for a few years.

Having said that, Froch displayed his granite chin and shipped some huge shots and showed heart of a lion and Groves show naivety in being dragged into Froch's kinda fight in the end and may well have been stopped had the fight been allowed run its course.

Watch the replay of the Knockdown in round 1, Froch was out for a split second before hitting the canvas, massive kudos for recovering.

Enough is enough with Matchroom though, too many dodgy decisions in favour of their fighters on domestic cards. Burns, Bellew, Rose and now Froch have received extremely generous treatment.

Not to mention the ref's performance last night prior to the stoppage. Constant hitting after the break/bell and use of forearm by Froch. He must have received 5/6 warnings in 9 rounds and not a single point deduction either.

The whole set up needs looking at.

Groves trainer Paddy Fitzpatrick summed it up well on Sky this morn, hes a pretty straight shooter too who is quite a low key guy:

"every few fights we have these kind of decisions, we all go mad, then it goes away, and then somebody else gets their living ripped off, then we carry on etc etc"

"not this time"

Amazing in this day and age when match fixing and betting patterns are investigated etc.. that we don't see any proper investigation into boxing. Bank accounts of judges/referees would make some great investigation fodder for starters.

I know folks will say boxing is the most subjective of sports in terms of differing views of a particular result but some of them really take the biscuit and there can be no disputing this surely.

Well said. You could add the Quigg result to that list too. I had the Cuban winning by a couple of rounds althought it was not the injustice the burns fight was.

I had Froch to win rounds 8 to 10 and felt at the end of round eight my money was safe. Groves was a mile ahead. I had him 5 up but by the end if the eighth the tide was turning, he looked knackered and I could see Froch going into to win by stoppage.

Totally disagree with the manner of the win but by that point I felt it had an inevitably to it. Groves was getting dragged into a war and he was never going to cone out the other side of that type of fight.

HigginsJ · 25-11-2013 08:43PM

chrisbonnie wrote: »

who would you take this time round?

Its funny, i reckon about 80% of the people that would have backed Froch will change their tune.

And im one of them

I would reckon Froch would take him in the rematch. Would be better prepared for Groves & would take him as a serious threat. I had serious doubts about Groves before the fight but he really was superb. The rematch would be a cracker.

Groves (or Froch tbh) would be mad to go anywhere near Andre Ward in their next fights.

DuckHook · 25-11-2013 09:00PM

darced wrote: »

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Like I said sometimes it's better to say nothing, your entitled to your view on the fight but when the vast majority are saying your wrong..then you're most likely wrong..but you know this and are trying to get people to rise to your nonsense.

CtrlAltDefeat · 25-11-2013 09:48PM

Froch P4P number 1

danbrosnan · 25-11-2013 09:54PM

Cant believe some of the opinions on here, its a joke, and when the rematch happens Froch will be knocked out…

kryogen · 25-11-2013 10:04PM

danbrosnan wrote: »

Cant believe some of the opinions on here, its a joke, and when the rematch happens Froch will be knocked out…

What makes you say that? He was absolutely battered with Groves best shots saturday and kept coming forward, kept hanging in there, kept throwing punches and put himself in a position to win the fight

Of course anyone can be KO's but I would be surprised if Groves could knock him out easily considering he gave it his best shot and came up short already

The only thing Groves would have on his side are Froch will be even older, and he will have learned from the experience of being in that fight. My main gripe with him was the fight came a couple of fights early. That wouldn't be an issue in the re match.

I would expect Froch to be better prepared in a re match however and if he doesn't get caught cold in the first the fight would probably go a little different.

Would be more interested in the re match then I was the original I think.

Fabric Softener · 25-11-2013 10:21PM

kryogen wrote: »

What makes you say that? He was absolutely battered with Groves best shots saturday and kept coming forward, kept hanging in there, kept throwing punches and put himself in a position to win the fight

Of course anyone can be KO's but I would be surprised if Groves could knock him out easily considering he gave it his best shot and came up short already

The only thing Groves would have on his side are Froch will be even older, and he will have learned from the experience of being in that fight. My main gripe with him was the fight came a couple of fights early. That wouldn't be an issue in the re match.

I would expect Froch to be better prepared in a re match however and if he doesn't get caught cold in the first the fight would probably go a little different.

Would be more interested in the re match then I was the original I think.

Well if the referee made froch walk towards him and look him in the eyes like you are supposed to after a knock down Froch wouldn't have made the count imo, his legs were like rubber. He needed the ropes to hold himself up.

CtrlAltDefeat · 25-11-2013 10:31PM

Froch P4P number one 2014
ward is now forced to come to england and get knocked out

walshb · 25-11-2013 10:33PM

chrisbonnie wrote: »

who would you take this time round?

Its funny, i reckon about 80% of the people that would have backed Froch will change their tune.

And im one of them

I was one to back Froch first time around, but I did say that IF Groves could take the heat then he'd make it close. He did just that, and more for 9 rds. I think that Groves can really improve in confidence from the other night. I think he'll be more up for it and confident should they rematch . On the other side I wouldn't at all be surprised if Froch can adapt and also improve. It's intriguing.

kryogen · 25-11-2013 10:49PM

Fabric Softener wrote: »

Well if the referee made froch walk towards him and look him in the eyes like you are supposed to after a knock down Froch wouldn't have made the count imo, his legs were like rubber. He needed the ropes to hold himself up.

Watch it again then?

He wobbled off the ropes when he got up alright, but he was able to stand straight and clearly had his faculties when the ref checked him.

People getting angry at Froch for what actually took place in the ring is mind boggling, he did his job, Groves did his, the ref made an error. The rest is speculation.

The real anger should actually be directed at the two judges who had that fight scored so close. That was a joke

kryogen · 25-11-2013 10:50PM

walshb wrote: »

I was one to back Froch first time around, but I did say that IF Groves could take the heat then he'd make it close. He did just that, and more for 9 rds. I think that Groves can really improve in confidence from the other night. I think he'll be more up for it and confident should they rematch . On the other side I wouldn't at all be surprised if Froch can adapt and also improve. It's intriguing.

Yeah, as I said, I think I would be more interested in a re match then I was the fight!

nacho libre · 25-11-2013 11:10PM

kryogen wrote: »

Watch it again then?

He wobbled off the ropes when he got up alright, but he was able to stand straight and clearly had his faculties when the ref checked him.

People getting angry at Froch for what actually took place in the ring is mind boggling, he did his job, Groves did his, the ref made an error. The rest is speculation.

very few blame Froch for what the ref' did, that would be absurd.
They are annoyed at his antics in the post fight interview. He has immense self- belief, but at the same time seems insecure in some ways.

I really can't see how Carl will improve and adapt next time out. He will be beaten to the punch next time as well, and will likely lose on points, as Groves will stick to boxing next time rather than playing to Carl's strengths.

Too Tough To Die · 25-11-2013 11:10PM

Groves wins the rematch quite comfortably imo. It will be a less entertaining fight too.

kryogen · 26-11-2013 12:01AM

nacho libre wrote: »

very few blame Froch for what the ref' did, that would be absurd.
They are annoyed at his antics in the post fight interview. He has immense self- belief, but at the same time seems insecure in some ways.

I really can't see how Carl will improve and adapt next time out. He will be beaten to the punch next time as well, and will likely lose on points, as Groves will stick to boxing next time rather than playing to Carl's strengths.

He did not come across well in the interview alright, then again he never comes across particularly well

Groves was just as annoying in the pre fight stuff I would say though.

I don't think a re match would go the distance, one or the other would be stopped. I still think it would more likely be Groves to get stopped but am not sure we will get the chance to find out.

Froch is a notorious slow starter, and he was caught cold in the first. I would hope that he could ensure he isn't that slow out of the blocks in a re match,if Groves can stick to his game plan he could also get a late stoppage though I reckon.

For me, it would be interesting anyway, so many possibilities and potential twists to the fight

darced · 26-11-2013 12:42AM

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PropJoe10 · 26-11-2013 04:00AM

Nobody is blaming Froch for what happened but some of the comments he's made since the fight have made him look like a right **** to be quite honest. Saying that the ref saved Groves' career makes him look quite stupid, especially considering the amount of punches Groves landed on him during that 9 rounds. I personally would be surprised if Froch took a rematch. He'll want to fight Ward again now and then retire. He wont beat Ward though, Ward is in a completely different class to him.

Henno30 · 26-11-2013 04:02AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPUgu1kTcf8

Carl Froch vs George Groves

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