Stupid ads about how wonderful alcohol is

Wibbs · 25-11-2013 01:42PM

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Actually it seems the good effects that moderate drinking have nothing to do with wine per se, but just the alcohol. You can have vodkas and the effect is the same.

Not in all cases I gather. IIRC one of my previous links did show differences depending on type of drink involved. In one it was white wine* that seemed to have the better effect(breast cancer if memory serves). I read another case where dark beer was better than wine, again going on what passes for my memory it was regarding bone loss.

As for the various constituents taken on their own, there may be cumulative effect/co factors, where the alcohol or something else present in vino may make them more bioavailable/potent than when compared to taken on their own.

*surely the work of the devil.

Xeyn · 25-11-2013 01:43PM

Wibbs wrote: »

A double blind study into the health effects of alcohol is going to be incredibly difficult. For a start the placebo wouldn't get you even a little tipsy(I can easily feel the effect of a single glass of wine, or pint of beer). There are studies that try to get near that level and here and again the alcohol(in this case wine) showed positive and statistically significant effects.

At this stage the jury is most certainly in and heavily on the side of regular low level consumption of alcohol, particularly wine and dark beers, being advantageous to health and to keep suggesting otherwise is going against many decades of research. Indeed one of the few places I've seen such resistance is among US researchers, though as a culture they have an interesting and at odds relationship to alcohol.

Youre absolutely right that it is a difficult to get a great study for it, but that doesnt take away from the fact that none of the studies can effectively reduce all bias and /or alternative lifestyle/dietry/genetic factors which may influence the results therefore it will never be conclusive. The studies you quote do admit to their limitations in their conclusions. We wont get into the debate about bias towards positive reporting in scientific research.
No one is suggesting that low level alcohol doesnt have any advantages (unless you can show me where I said this?) but to say that it definitely does is plainly wrong.
At the end of the day people believe what they want to believe. There is overwhelming evidence that alcohol is linked to a huge variety of diseases - there is consensus on this, which low level alcohol consumption does not have. It may have in the future, but not yet.
I would never tell any of my patients not to drink alcohol, and I even advise them on the potential benefits, but I make it a point of educating them what is moderate and what is not, the majority of people ive dealt with think a moderate amount is in excess by varying degrees, to what it actually is. There is a big danger in not quantifying what is considered by research as moderate.
Using buzz words like moderate or responsible do not add much to the debate and can falsely reassure people that their drinking is not excessive.

25-11-2013 01:49PM

seanie_c wrote: »

Of course they don't glamorise drunkenness, they imply you'll have a fantastic time drinking it though and yet rarely do I see anyone enjoying themselves after a few drinks in a bar or club.

I see more people lying collapsed on the street among broken glass and the contents of someone's stomach than happiness overall.
Or some fight is breaking out, or a couple are arguing...it's pure BS.

It's a complete waste of time, money, health...and yet these ads would have many believe it's great stuff.

Wow no idea where you go, but I would think of avoiding it from now on..

seanie_c · 25-11-2013 02:03PM

Real Psycrow wrote: »

See all of the above Seanie.

Everything I said is based on my own observations, nothing was fabricated to support my argument.

seanie_c wrote:

I don't have a crusade against alcohol, I drink alcohol.

Real Psycrow wrote:

This to me is the equivalent of someone accused of being racist saying that some of their best friends are black.

Jesus Christ. . . . :rolleyes:

seanie_c wrote:

Can you list 1 benefit to society?

Real Psycrow wrote:

Jobs.

Seriously Seanie, no one is denying that there are problems, but you don't help your argument by spouting the BS above. Stick with your facts and figures if you want people to take you and the problem more seriously.

Seriously, I hope you're joking..
Even when presented with facts and figures you stick your head back in the sand again.

Real Psycrow · 25-11-2013 02:12PM

seanie_c wrote: »

Everything I said is based on my own observations, nothing was fabricated to support my argument.

Jesus Christ. . . . :rolleyes:

Seriously, I hope you're joking..
Even when presented with facts and figures you stick your back in the sand again.

First of all, Again? Not only was taht the first time I've posted on this thread, it was the first time I posted in this forum.

And if you noticed, I didn't dispute your facts and figures, I disputed your hyperbole.

You rarely see anyone enjoying themselves in a bar or club after a few drinks? I call shenanigans. Either you're bull****ting, or you need to look up the meaning of enjoyment.

You see more people collapsed on the street and vomiting than happiness overall? Again, I call shenanigans. Yes you see these things, but you certainly don't see more people like that than happy people.

And you claim to see fights, arguments, vomiting, ambulances and criminal damage EVERY night you go out? Guess what I'm calling. If you see all those things every night, you're bad luck mate.

These things all happen. But for every 1 person who is involved in any of those things, there are, I'd guess, 500 who just have a good night and go home. If you're not seeing them along with all this other stuff, your guide dog is.

But again, I'll say, I'm not disputing your facts and figures, though I haven't looked them up myself. But you would lend your own argument a lot more gravity if you weren't so dramatic with your descriptions.

Grayditch · 25-11-2013 02:13PM

How are you on the gargle, yourself, seanie_c?

seanie_c · 25-11-2013 02:19PM

Grayditch wrote: »

How are you on the gargle, yourself, seanie_c?

Moderate drinker. Beer/Wine. Rarely ever touch spirits or cider.

25-11-2013 02:27PM

seanie_c wrote: »

Moderate drinker. Beer/Wine. Rarely ever touch spirits or cider.

seanie_c wrote: »

Linden village is what I always drink.

seanie_c · 25-11-2013 02:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, I was jokin with my friend mikom. He loves winding people up cause he's nothing better to do with himself. Business isn't goin too well so he's butt hurt and wants to take it out on someone....anyone.

Czarcasm · 25-11-2013 02:32PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

D'oops... I think seanie might be gone knacker drinking under a bridge!

Grayditch · 25-11-2013 02:34PM

seanie_c wrote: »

Yeah, I was jokin with my friend mikom. He loves winding people up cause he's nothing better to do with himself.

Birds of a feather?

25-11-2013 02:35PM

seanie_c wrote: »

Yeah, I was jokin with my friend mikom. He loves winding people up cause he's nothing better to do with himself. Business isn't goin too well so he's butt hurt and wants to take it out on someone....anyone.

Mod

There has already been a mod warning about personal snipes, keep it up and you won't be posting here again.

D-FENS · 25-11-2013 02:35PM

I absolutely despise alcohol being advertised and refuse to fill the pockets of the corporate rapists responsible,

This is why I only ever drink poitin and paint stripper.

foxyboxer · 25-11-2013 02:52PM

Of course there are adverts for alcohol on tv. Of course these adverts will promote their product in a cloyingly positive light. Is it really that surprising?

There are also ads on tv that highlight drinking as a danger to your health (drink aware, drink driving etc) which counteracts the above and shows alcohol in the negative.

That balances it out for me.

El_Dangeroso · 25-11-2013 05:28PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Not in all cases I gather. IIRC one of my previous links did show differences depending on type of drink involved. In one it was white wine* that seemed to have the better effect(breast cancer if memory serves). I read another case where dark beer was better than wine, again going on what passes for my memory it was regarding bone loss.

As for the various constituents taken on their own, there may be cumulative effect/co factors, where the alcohol or something else present in vino may make them more bioavailable/potent than when compared to taken on their own
*surely the work of the devil.

I'm just talking longevity, so in the case of getting less of one disease doesn't really matter too much if you die of another!

Also don't forget that different drinks can imply different activities which are not always reported in the data. For example white wine drinkers are less likely to binge drink.

If there's one thing I've learnt from working in research is that heavy drinkers lie about their consumption.

ScumLord · 25-11-2013 05:58PM

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

I'm just talking longevity, so in the case of getting less of one disease doesn't really matter too much if you die of another!

You're never going to get around that fact though. You will die of something eventually. Even if they found they could prevent most physical ailments to the body your mind would inevitably blue screen at some stage as it doesn't seem all that good at running over a certain amount of hours.

General General · 25-11-2013 06:11PM

Davelarson wrote: »

While I do think seanie_c is going a bit Maude Flanders on us, I remember teaching English to a class of foreign students. As I recall there was Japanese, Koreans, Italians, Spanish, Saudis, and few others. I asked them do they think Irish people drink too much and everyone of them said yes.

Where was this class held, may I ask?

El_Dangeroso · 25-11-2013 07:23PM

ScumLord wrote: »

You're never going to get around that fact though. You will die of something eventually. Even if they found they could prevent most physical ailments to the body your mind would inevitably blue screen at some stage as it doesn't seem all that good at running over a certain amount of hours.

You don't want to die sooner than you're supposed to though right?

banquo · 25-11-2013 08:49PM

Relevant satire.

[The Onion]

Wibbs · 25-11-2013 08:51PM

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

If there's one thing I've learnt from working in research is that heavy drinkers lie about their consumption.

Oh very true and not just heavy drinkers either*, which might suggest that the physical damage alcohol causes might be less than presumed for many in the population and/or the doses required to show clinical benefits may be higher too.

* EG a friend of mine decided to log her weekly drinking and nearly had heart failure when she looked at the result. She didn't consider herself a "drinker" and TBH I very rarely saw her even tipsy, yet she was consuming well over double the recommended safe weekly intake. She really panicked and got bloods done to check her liver function and all was perfectly fine. One of the lucky ones I suppose. I know a guy who is a major drinker, indeed a high functioning full on alco, yet his yearly extensive medical for insurance and his job comes back fine.

Baked.noodle · 25-11-2013 09:05PM

I like a drink myself, though I have cut back a lot over the last two years. It is kinda ridiculous how much drinking is acceptable in Ireland. The average person consumes 152oz of alcohol per year whilst in Ireland it is 463oz.

http://alcoholismstatistics.net/

gctest50 · 25-11-2013 09:42PM

Baked.noodle wrote: »

I like a drink myself, though I have cut back a lot over the last two years. It is kinda ridiculous how much drinking is acceptable in Ireland. The average person consumes 152oz of alcohol per year whilst in Ireland it is 463oz.

http://alcoholismstatistics.net/

Whoever is responsible for that outstanding website needs to go see these people asap :

http://bit.ly/IdJPu1

wow sierra · 25-11-2013 10:21PM

Brilliant Ad - I hadn't seen it. Thanks OP for helping Tullamore Dew in their advertising.

Alcohol is a good positive thing in a lot of our lives - the fact that some people abuse it doesn't change this. Weddings or funerals would be horrific without it - IMHO.

On the subject of Sports sponsorship - we had an All Ireland quarter final this year between Meath sponsored by Tayto and Tyrone sponsored by Hunky Dory - is that supposed to be f**king progress???? The only other viable sponsors for sports are financial institutions - and we know how great they have been for the country.:rolleyes::rolleyes: Volunteers are trying to run sporting organisations which are vital to the physical and mental well being of the nation - where are they supposed to get funding today??

mikom · 26-11-2013 12:11AM

seanie_c wrote: »

Yeah, I was jokin with my friend mikom. He loves winding people up cause he's nothing better to do with himself. Business isn't goin too well so he's butt hurt and wants to take it out on someone....anyone.

An insightful post, only surpassed by your opening post in this thread...

ScumLord · 26-11-2013 12:30AM

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

You don't want to die sooner than you're supposed to though right?

When am I supposed to die?

drumswan · 26-11-2013 12:41AM

Baked.noodle wrote: »

I like a drink myself, though I have cut back a lot over the last two years. It is kinda ridiculous how much drinking is acceptable in Ireland. The average person consumes 152oz of alcohol per year whilst in Ireland it is 463oz.

http://alcoholismstatistics.net/

The 'average' person? What does that mean? Lots of nations dont drink for religious, cultural and body chemistry reasons. Ireland is not even top ten in Europe. Irish consumption has fallen year on year for over a decade and is down 20% since 2001. But lets not let the facts get in the way of hysteria.

gctest50 · 26-11-2013 01:04AM

It just leads to this shower of chancers

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low form of life that picks on such vunerable people

seanie_c · 26-11-2013 04:31AM

mikom wrote: »

An insightful post, only surpassed by your opening post in this thread...

Your daily activities of drinking beer and smoking weed while you play WoW is all very amusing... but maybe you ought to setup a blog and document your boring life instead of annoying people on a public forum?

Just a suggestion.

I'm pretty sure when I reach your ripe old age, can't imagine I'll be wasting what precious time I have posting on boards.ie at the rate you do.

Maybe get more exercise and cut down on the bacon butties?
Ya never know, it might actually enhance your life, ya might just be a happier person.

It's not too late for you to change.

maninasia · 26-11-2013 06:10AM

General General wrote: »

They'd say that, would they? ...that it's ALL because of alcohol? or did you just make that up to bolster your argument with some hyperbolics?

Jesus H. Wept.

Most of the rest of the world don't think of us... from one end of the day... to the next.

No, not all crime is because of alcohol abuse in Ireland, but a very significant part of it is. The tolerance of the abuse of alcohol in Ireland goes deep. The single biggest factor to reducing crime rates and social problems would probably be to reduce alcohol consumption.

http://alcoholireland.ie/facts/case-studies-kids/

Almost half of the perpetrators of homicide were intoxicated when the crime was committed

Would a pharmaceutical company get approval for a drug that has been linked to 50% of the state's murders, or even 5%?

NO!

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/70000-crimes-directly-linked-to-alcohol-153726.html

70,000 CRIMES DIRECTLY LINKED TO ALCOHOL

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/28/alcohol-most-common-drug-in-sexual-assaults/3285139/

Of course our Finance Minister and then Taoiseach, Brian Cowen, was known for his fondness for alcohol.
Look at the results of his and his cabinets decisions.

Ye can stick your head in the stand all you like, but the OP's point is pretty valid.

26-11-2013 06:51AM

Mod

seanie_c banned for continually being uncivil.

Stupid ads about how wonderful alcohol is

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