Haddington Road Discussion ASTI/TUI/Non Union at Second Level

2011abc · 24-11-2013 08:24PM

Armelodie wrote: »

I reckon a few more crumbs will thrown from the Asti/dept. JC talks table ...just before the vote takes place..thus making it look like the no voters are preventing these brilliant outcomes from happening...

I wouldn't mind if everyone took part in the supervision bit of S&S if they swooped it for CP hrs..

Yeah they really achieved their goal with those CP hours if it was to humiliate us and waste our time .I think that (apparently now infamous) 'lady inspector' and her powerpoint presentation read verbatim may come back to bite them .The same 'wan' would probably crucify us for not integrating vietnamese basket weaving and a mime act into our classes ."Edutainment " indeed ...Theres some suggestion now that they may 'allow' 33 hours to poss even include extra curricular activities .If theyd done that from the get go they mightnt have gotten our backs up so much !Hopefully teachers will remember ALL of the treachery of the last few years and vote NO!

teacherhead · 24-11-2013 08:31PM

2011abc wrote: »

Yeah they really achieved their goal with those CP hours if it was to humiliate us and waste our time .I think that (apparently now infamous) 'lady inspector' and her powerpoint presentation read verbatim may come back to bite them .The same 'wan' would probably crucify us for not integrating vietnamese basket weaving and a mime act into our classes ."Edutainment " indeed ...Theres some suggestion now that they may 'allow' 33 hours to poss even include extra curricular activities .If theyd done that from the get go they mightnt have gotten our backs up so much !Hopefully teachers will remember ALL of the treachery of the last few years and vote NO!

Use for extra curricular would be excellent. To be fair it's more than sport and most teachers are involved.

The ones not involved would have to do something else I'd imagine to be fair to others. No doubt there'd be a row over this too.

There is no way tgat they should be used to replace posts of responsibility which I fear may eventually become the case.

byhookorbycrook · 24-11-2013 08:58PM

Of course the idea of extra hours is to replace posts of responsibility. Otherwise ,where is the "saving?"

spurious · 24-11-2013 10:04PM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Of course the idea of extra hours is to replace posts of responsibility. Otherwise ,where is the "saving?"

They created this 'need to save' in the first place by the ludicrous original S&S scheme, which paid people to sign up to 'possible' hours and be paid for them all instead of just paying part-time and low-CID people to actually do the classes.

All those staff in FE colleges, who do neither S nor S still quite legitimately signed up and got their S&S payment, while never having to actually do it (and fair play to them, a silly system that no-one thought through deserved to be hammered). Is it that no-one in the Dept. knew such places existed?

Now they've set it up nicely that everyone will be stuck doing the work for free and I would agree with byhookorbycrook, the posts will be gone soon.

acequion · 24-11-2013 10:08PM

Armelodie wrote: »

I reckon a few more crumbs will thrown from the Asti/dept. JC talks table ...just before the vote takes place..thus making it look like the no voters are preventing these brilliant outcomes from happening...

I wouldn't mind if everyone took part in the supervision bit of S&S if they swooped it for CP hrs..

I,for one,wouldn't want that,Armelodie! I would absolutely hate S&S and will gladly buy out of it if the yes wins. Obviously I want no to win,but if it doesn't I'll be banking on that consolation prize.

teacherhead wrote: »

Use for extra curricular would be excellent. To be fair it's more than sport and most teachers are involved.

The ones not involved would have to do something else I'd imagine to be fair to others. No doubt there'd be a row over this too.

There is no way tgat they should be used to replace posts of responsibility which I fear may eventually become the case.

You can bet on that,teacherhead. I'm a bit uncomfortable with the assumption that most teachers do extra curricular. I'm perfectly happy to hold my hand up and declare that I no longer do any. I did debating /public speaking along with being involved in school productions for many years and really enjoyed it all. But the enjoyment came from the voluntary aspect,it was like a hobby.When I no longer wanted it to do it,I bowed out,with no problems or pressure whatsoever.This was many years ago when the kids and their parents actually appreciated,rather than expected it. At this point,I'm much older with other responsibilities in my life and don't want to have to go back down that road.Why should any worker be forced into doing "voluntary" extras? Therefore,I'm rather uneasy as to what we might be forced to do once the 33 hours are reviewed. For that reason I go back to my earlier idea that the half in,half out [12] hours should definitely be scrapped,so that the 33 hours are used mainly for P/T and staff meetings.

Or better,that everyone has to sense to vote no again.The idea of how they can squeeze the last drop out of us,while I and many others sit here on a Sunday night toiling away at prep and corrections, would be farcical if it weren't so serious!

Teacher22 · 24-11-2013 10:21PM

Most teachers in my school never signed up to pension aspect of s&s. A few do not do s&s. If yes vote carried majority say they will pay not to keep doing s&s

Peter Flynt · 24-11-2013 11:43PM

endakenny wrote: »

The ASTI will meet representatives from the Department tomorrow to discuss the Junior Cycle.

http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/21466679/?view=Standard

Of course. . . Ruairi had such respect for teachers that he gave our representatives in the unions ONE HOUR NOTICE before he announced his abolition of the Junior Cert under the guise of "reform".

Of course Ruairi will be long since pensioned off after he has ignored the parents, teachers & students regarding abolition of the Junior Cert.

maude6868 · 25-11-2013 12:13AM

Teachers in my school saying they would teach one extra class a week if all out of school hours were scrapped.

teacherhead · 25-11-2013 12:34AM

maude6868 wrote: »

Teachers in my school saying they would teach one extra class a week if all out of school hours were scrapped.

That is madness. In a thirty teacher school that would be one teachers job wiped out.

Dont even go there.

acequion · 25-11-2013 01:52AM

maude6868 wrote: »

Teachers in my school saying they would teach one extra class a week if all out of school hours were scrapped.

I'd actually prefer that too. I could live with a bit more of the actual job I do every day and which I still enjoy. It's all these extras that drive me nuts.I think in many other areas of the public sector,they just have to do more of the same.I'm not being dismissive, as already there's anecdotal evidence that the extra hours in the other sectors are impacting on family life. But HR entails so much more for teachers,it's no wonder there's so much resistance.

evolving_doors · 25-11-2013 09:00AM

acequion wrote: »

I'd actually prefer that too. I could live with a bit more of the actual job I do every day and which I still enjoy. It's all these extras that drive me nuts.I think in many other areas of the public sector,they just have to do more of the same.I'm not being dismissive, as already there's anecdotal evidence that the extra hours in the other sectors are impacting on family life. But HR entails so much more for teachers,it's no wonder there's so much resistance.

Id agree there alright, a good deal of HR is about the killing off of the profession but it is being dressed up in the public eye as 'saving the country money and trimming the public service fat '

Hence why a nay is so important, once these changes to conditions creep in ,new teachers will just accept them unwittingly (they should be lucky to have a job , summer holidays ...etc.)

stevo51 · 25-11-2013 05:23PM

Hi Guys,

Was wondering if any of you could help me out, I am a nqt and have just got a job in youthreach as a resource officer. Can any of you let me know if the haddington road agreement affects the new entry pay scale. Can i expect to be on the new starting rate or on the post 1.1.2011 rate which includes the 10% reduction??

Any help much appreciated

endakenny · 25-11-2013 08:04PM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Of course. . . Ruairi had such respect for teachers that he gave our representatives in the unions ONE HOUR NOTICE before he announced his abolition of the Junior Cert under the guise of "reform".

Of course Ruairi will be long since pensioned off after he has ignored the parents, teachers & students regarding abolition of the Junior Cert.

How can he be accused of ignoring parents if the NPC-PP has not expressed an opinion about the "reform"?

endakenny · 25-11-2013 08:08PM

km79 wrote: »

But as part of HRA tui have been promised the same talks. Some schools have both members. All junior certs will sit the same exams no matter what union their teachers are in . so why are both unions not at this hastily arranged talks .....

Actually, TUI reps are also involved in the JC talks.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/strikes-to-cause-christmas-of-discontent-29781475.html

endakenny · 25-11-2013 10:10PM

Matthew712 wrote: »

It's the Management rep bodies that came up with the ways of worsening teachers conditions. They can up with S&S, 33hrs, PTM after school, extra S&S hours and want us to be on the premises all day. Many Principals are a waste of space, staying in their box, doing everything in their power to annoy teachers and frustrate teaching. They tick every box including the thick box. And unfortunately they make up a significant part of the YES voters.

Principals and Deputy Principals constitute a minority of the ASTI membership. If what you say about principals - that they make up a significant part of the YES voters - is true and the HRA is passed by this ballot then the blame for it being passed will rest with those ASTI members who are too lazy to vote.

ethical · 26-11-2013 05:50PM

I spoke to a colleague today who told me she is voting 'yes' to HRA2 as she will get a CID.I asked why did she change her mind and she said it was because asti H.O assured her that she would get a cid.Now she already has a piddly 5 hour cid and has qualified again !!!! having done the relevant number of years.I do not believe that she will get a full 18+ hours CID as Quinn says the Gov has no money to continue paying S AND S money to ASTI members.....so what chance 400 or 500 teachers having their piddly CID changed overnight to an 18+ hrs CID! The lack of clarity is unbelievable on such issues.

endakenny · 26-11-2013 08:06PM

ethical wrote: »

I spoke to a colleague today who told me she is voting 'yes' to HRA2 as she will get a CID.I asked why did she change her mind and she said it was because asti H.O assured her that she would get a cid.Now she already has a piddly 5 hour cid and has qualified again !!!! having done the relevant number of years.I do not believe that she will get a full 18+ hours CID as Quinn says the Gov has no money to continue paying S AND S money to ASTI members.....so what chance 400 or 500 teachers having their piddly CID changed overnight to an 18+ hrs CID! The lack of clarity is unbelievable on such issues.

Does she not care about the effect that the new JC assessment system would have?

km79 · 26-11-2013 08:42PM

Just seen a very worrying comment on asti fightback page ......apparently school reps in over quota schools are receiving letters from Pat King informing them people will be fired in May if we wait outside HRA....if true I don't think I can remain part of any union he is part of much longer

littlebsci · 26-11-2013 08:44PM

There's a lot of poor/incorrect information going around schools. I spoke to a former colleague at the weekend who is of the opinion that if Haddington Road is accepted this time then we'll get paid for S&S. Apparently there's at least one person in their school telling other teachers that this is the case and as a result the majority are now planning on voting yes! I know it's only one example but this sort of thing doesn't bode well!

Peter Flynt · 26-11-2013 08:53PM

km79 wrote: »

Just seen a very worrying comment on asti fightback page ......apparently school reps in over quota schools are receiving letters from Pat King informing them people will be fired in May if we wait outside HRA....if true I don't think I can remain part of any union he is part of much longer

How would Pat King know which schools are over quota?

He wouldn't happen to be receiving his information from Ruairi?

Peter Flynt · 26-11-2013 08:54PM

littlebsci wrote: »

There's a lot of poor/incorrect information going around schools. I spoke to a former colleague at the weekend who is of the opinion that if Haddington Road is accepted this time then we'll get paid for S&S. Apparently there's at least one person in their school telling other teachers that this is the case and as a result the majority are now planning on voting yes! I know it's only one example but this sort of thing doesn't bode well!

Jebus Christ. . . If that's the case then Dumb doesn't even come into it!

ethical · 26-11-2013 09:11PM

Is anyone able to tell the truth any longer in this fcuked up little banana republic of ours? The amount of lies,bullying and scaremongering is frightening.

endakenny · 26-11-2013 09:32PM

littlebsci wrote: »

There's a lot of poor/incorrect information going around schools. I spoke to a former colleague at the weekend who is of the opinion that if Haddington Road is accepted this time then we'll get paid for S&S. Apparently there's at least one person in their school telling other teachers that this is the case and as a result the majority are now planning on voting yes! I know it's only one example but this sort of thing doesn't bode well!

How did your former colleague manage to become a teacher with that level of intelligence?

Juniorhurler · 26-11-2013 09:50PM

endakenny wrote: »

How did your former colleague manage to become a teacher with that level of intelligence?

through yellow packing

Peter Flynt · 26-11-2013 10:01PM

ethical wrote: »

Is anyone able to tell the truth any longer in this fcuked up little banana republic of ours? The amount of lies,bullying and scaremongering is frightening.

If the likes of King are scaremongering then the NO side is winning!

6am7f9zxrsjvnb · 26-11-2013 10:05PM

km79 wrote: »

Just seen a very worrying comment on asti fightback page ......apparently school reps in over quota schools are receiving letters from Pat King informing them people will be fired in May if we wait outside HRA....if true I don't think I can remain part of any union he is part of much longer

Why do you find this so strange? It`s there in black and white..
Vote YES- No Redundancies
Vote NO- Possibility of redundancies from September 2014

Kalimera · 26-11-2013 10:15PM

Jerry Powerful Vegetarian wrote: »

Why do you find this so strange? It`s there in black and white..
Vote YES- No Redundancies
Vote NO- Possibility of redundancies from September 2014

Schools are informed at this time of year if they are in an over quota situation based on October returns.
20+ ASTI Schools are in this position. Outside of HRA there is no redeployment.

km79 · 26-11-2013 10:17PM

Jerry Powerful Vegetarian wrote: »

Why do you find this so strange? It`s there in black and white..
Vote YES- No Redundancies
Vote NO- Possibility of redundancies from September 2014

Exactly !!! Its already there in black and white . so why would the leader of our union which is recommending a no vote sent letters out on such a black and white issue shortly before the ballot unless he in fact is trying to sway people to the Yes side...Is he going to send letters reminding all members if we vote yes that all CP hours missed will have to be made up after Xmas ? That has not been made clear to members on the asti websites propaganda document.....

endakenny · 26-11-2013 10:19PM

km79 wrote: »

Exactly !!! Its already there in black and white . so why would the leader of our union which is recommending a no vote sent letters out on such a black and white issue shortly before the ballot unless he in fact is trying to sway people to the Yes side...Is he going to send letters reminding all members if we vote yes that all CP hours missed will have to be made up after Xmas ? That has not been made clear to members on the asti websites propaganda document.....

Where does it say that the hours have to be made up?

acequion · 26-11-2013 10:21PM

Kalimera wrote: »

Schools are informed at this time of year if they are in an over quota situation based on October returns.
20+ ASTI Schools are in this position. Outside of HRA there is no redeployment.

The threat of redundancies was successfully used to frighten a lot of TUI people into voting yes. Are we down to this now as well in ASTI!

Haddington Road Discussion ASTI/TUI/Non Union at Second Level

Comments