Haddington Road Discussion ASTI/TUI/Non Union at Second Level

Thoughts on this??

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/colm-orourke/colm-o-regan-asti-has-no-strategy-no-endgame-just-a-no-vote-29779459.html

I agree with the idea about the union not being fit for purpose.
It's frustrating that there is no end game or plan.

I agree with a no vote to the HRA, but then what?

What exactly was his commitment to his job when O'Rourke was involved in property developing?

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I agree with the idea about the union not being fit for purpose.
It's frustrating that there is no end game or plan.

I agree with a no vote to the HRA, but then what?

A no vote at the very least,expresses dissatisfaction with the current proposals, including tweaks. Another no could force the Government to go further with concessions which would not even rock their precious HR boat.For example,firstly, they could allow every teacher the option the opt out of S&S with the pay cut, if not this year,logistically,then starting from 2014-2015. Secondly,not one media outlet has mentioned that it's not 33 extra hours,it's 45[with the old half in,half out] They could scrap that extra 12 and have all staff and P/T meetings within their precious 33 hours.Thirdly,a they could make a commitment to at least compromise on the major concerns of the new JC,namely teacher assessment.Such concessions are very reasonable and I could see them happening anyway. But we may have to go to war first.

My preferred option though,would be to continue to remain outside HR,even with the financial sacrifices that entails.So as such I will never vote for it,or any of their insidious "agreements". But,as a pragmatist,I realise that a majority are not prepared to take such as stand,but I hope that we at least get another no result and eventually get fairer concessions.We,the teachers,don't have to be in any rush with this.

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

If every teacher opts out of S&S, schools shut down.

Don't be naiive enough to think this isn't a game Peter.
It most certainly is, and we're losing it.

There are no plans from the ASTI to close schools.

If teachers opt out of S&S then there's nothing stopping them from recruiting people to do S&S.

It's not a game.

It's a choice.

O'Rourke has a grudge against the Union as they did not support him when his school would not let him go on the Aussie Rules tour years ago,he left the Union back then.To have him commenting now on how ordinary decent ...petrified teachers should do or shouldn't do is akin to him taking part in property development!!!! same mess!!!!!!! as he knows fine well!:p

ytareh wrote: »

He's some hypocrite !Independent is SUCH a rag .I wouldnt be talking up compromises too much either at this stage .Only a fool would bet against Dept of Ed. Special Advisors posting on these boards posing as teachers .I personally would NOT be happy to just be shut of the half in/half out 12.5 hours .We fought long and hard enough now to 'give up ' for that alone .God knows the 'pay rise' (inflation catch up mostly) we got for them is long gone .
I reckon we have them rattled .I also reckon we will face yet ANOTHER vote after this .And as long as we stay out of HRA/33 hrs Im DEEEEELIGHTED!

ytareh, I completely agree with you. And I have no problem constantly voting no.The problem is how long will the no remain a majority! At least if we keep chipping away at the rough edges of HR before the majority give in to it,it will be something. Look at the way TUI gave in so quickly!

Report in the 'Business Post' that Quinn will legislate to make S&S compulsory for all teachers, in the event of a NO vote. Starting to make sense now why we've such a long lead in to this ballot.....hoping to wear people down

No doubt they'll promise an 'expert working group' , to be recruited from some of those who tried to sell us out recently ...No deal Ruairi!Try again!

2011abc wrote: »

I think we're due a strike soon anyway ...Better than being sold down the river without a fight ...

Oh I know that . what I meant was this. If we had withdrawn from s and s by now (which we shud have) then schools would probably have been closed but we would have been to available to fulfill our teaching contracts .I.e class time so would have expected to be paid.
Now that we have given the govt time to do this by the time we withdraw after Xmas (in the event of a no vote) we will be breaking our new contracts so won't be paid. Thats straight from the mouth/email of our fearless leader Pat !

2011abc wrote: »

Some of the stuff ASTI head office are writing to members in emails is mindboggling .How can they be at once so devious and cunning yet so naive???!!!

EG from president to myself

"The reason for the urgency of the CEC meeting was because ASTI members are engaged in industrial action and are losing pay due to the draconian FEMPI legislation."

He gave me a completely different reason! I'll have a search for the email now. His tone was incredibly ignorant and dismissive of us to be honest.     
Here it is
  I do not know why you use the term ‘emergency’. The Special Meeting of CEC was called at short notice in order to give CEC the opportunity to make an early judgement on whether to hold a ballot or not.

endakenny wrote: »

Maybe it's because ASTI poses a major obstacle to the new Junior Cycle curriculum. By the way, I agree with the ASTI on that issue.

But as part of HRA tui have been promised the same talks. Some schools have both members. All junior certs will sit the same exams no matter what union their teachers are in . so why are both unions not at this hastily arranged talks .....

2011abc wrote: »

I mean President who is female not General Secretary , in fairness theres more than one or two of them 'in there ' who are 'in league' against members best interests .

Sorry misread it but either way the reason given should be the same !
This vote is going to be incredibly tight....damn near 50:50 is my call!