Haddington Road Discussion ASTI/TUI/Non Union at Second Level

Icsics wrote: »

These staff meetings are so important we've had them all cancelled since Ind Act began!

Staff Meetings don't have to be cancelled. If management are cancelling them it says a lot about how they consider the views and opinions of their staff.

Someone should remind management of all the staff meetings which occurred during school time when they were mere mortal teachers.

Pwpane wrote: »

I don't agree. Several posters here have complained about teachers' ignorance of what's in this deal and about the importance of passing on accurate information. The most accurate information is available at the touch of a couple of buttons to someone who is already online. So what is the disincentive to go look at it? The dislike of reading official language, I suggest - it's too much work. I'm tired of people wanting to pick my brains just because they won't use their own. It really isn't that hard to just read the documentation in front of you.

I tend to agree. While not wishing to be rude, it's hard to have patience with lazy questions.Most posters on this thread keep themselves well informed and come here to discuss the issues.

acequion wrote: »

HRA is not even mentioned in most schools because nobody has any time in schools to talk about anything any more, other than a bit of light hearted chatter at break, which we all need. It certainly doesn't mean that people aren't up on the issues.

I agree that nobody should be rude to posters here on boards, but at this stage I find it very hard to have patience with teachers,asti members, who don't keep themselves informed. We are all in this together and will all be bound by the ballot result and it would be nice if,for once, everyone got up of their asses,got informed,then make a decision and vote.

It is not talked about int he school I mentioned as most of them have no clue about it.

Regardless whether or not you have patience this thread is a discussion on HR. People are coming on here maybe to inform themsleves to a greater extent by asking questions. And you still moan about it, Yet you are giving out that they are not up to speed. You have to see the lack of logic in what you are saying. The ballot has not been announced yet so people maybe are now getting themselves up to speed before it happens.
What is wrong with that?
Maybe set up you own thread called "only for people who already know everything about HRA" other than that I find some peoples conduct shocking.

I know we will get a mod on soon to give out about going off topic so maybe we need to end the discussion about giving out to people.

Just accept people come here to find out information if you don't like it dont read it or don't respond to them. This is what this website and thread are about, unfortunately you might not always agree but thats life

Asti Nuacht just published - lets all inform ourselves and read it. One of the more eye catching aspects of a YES vote is the possibility of 300 extra Assistant Principal Posts.

tosh999 wrote: »

Asti Nuacht just published - lets all inform ourselves and read it. One of the more eye catching aspects of a YES vote is the possibility of 300 extra Assistant Principal Posts.

If someone stole your car and burnt it out ,leaving you without transport for years and then offered to buy you a push bike if you refused to press charges would you call that an 'eye catching' proposition ? Ever heard of Stockholm Syndrome ?Its named after some high profile kidnapping case and describes the phenomenon where abused victims may start to feel attachment for their oppressors .I guess we've all heard of domestic abuse victims who won't leave ....The govt have crippled most graduates (from the last half decade ) lifestyles and condemned those of the next to emigration !And you think we should be enticed at the prospect of a few crumbs being thrown from their table !?How many posts have been lost due to their carry on?

By the way I presume the ASTI Nuacht is shameless propaganda promoting a Yes vote considering the President told me in an email reply that the reason she called an emergency CEC meeting was that 'members are engaged in industrial action and losing money under draconian FEMPI legislation '

Really ? News flash ,we've been losing money for 5 years now !

Oh ,and ...

"There is also clear evidence that the govt will use FEMPI legislation again to impose a cut in S&S payments "


SO WE SHOULD VOTE YES AND DO IT FOR FREE !?

Can anyone understand the logic of this 'argument' ?This is from the president while the general secretary bemoans activists for being too "passionate"!!!!

Interestingly Nuacht states that if HR is not passed then there is no alleviation of the moratorium on those posts in, and I quote, "ASTI schools".

So the Minister is going to punish children in "ASTI schools" by not replacing services/posts as opposed to those who signed up for Haddington Road?

What does the Minister for Children think of this?

I don't think that is enforceable.

Peter Flynt wrote: »

An extra 88 hours per year adds up to an extra 4 years UNPAID over a 40 year career. . . . and they're boasting this won't be added to under Haddington Road (i.e. for a further 30 months after we sign up for it).

Ridiculous.

That last point means that teachers work ((88*40)/4) = 892 hours per year in total, is that the case?

A lot of teachers in this thread have been suggesting they work far in excess of 40 hours per week (and work over the summer break also).

These two positions are contradictory.

Peter Flynt wrote: »

They're not contradictory. . . I've done an extra 3.5 hours already today [after 8 periods teaching] on my own accord and I work extensively over weekends and the summer. I accept that this is my own personal choice and is not required.

I'm bringing that to an end if Haddington Road is introduced.

So you do more than is asked for nothing but won't do if it asked, not seeing the logic there!

Musicmental85 wrote: »

Villain I'm not sure if you are being deliberately inflammatory but please be careful.

As the poster said up until now there has been significant good will on the part of teachers in terms of the hours they work. The preparation time is needed and its expanded on for extra curricular, meeting with parents etc etc. The government and public largely ignore this work and when it suits them pretend it doesn't matter. This is not the case in other countries where it is acknowledged and counted. Teachers in Ireland already had one of the highest numbers of teaching hours per year in the OECD, we are now being rostered in for more hours without any extra pay bringing us even further up while still not acknowledging that to prepare classes requires time that they are not counting.

The impact of this is that something has to give. There aren't enough hours in the day to do more so something else, most likely extra curricular/class planning has to be cut back.

This is EXACTLY what will happen.
Which do people think is more worthwhile for students ....teachers voluntarily giving up a couple of hours EVERY week as a lot do OR forcing already demoralised teachers to stay behind every few weeks for a pointless meeting .....
Mark my words acceptance of this will be the end of school and teaching as we know. The spirit of togetherness and volunteerism will be gone. Forever. It will become just another job . clock in clock out. Some people/trolls here will rejoice....until their children enter the system....

Peter Flynt wrote: »

I give back ten times more

If they want to waste my time doing boring irrelevant meetings and carrying out S&S duties they're not going to pay me for. . . then they can F Off - I'll do no more.

I'm not having some muppet on 150K+expenses a year in the DES sitting on his arse thinking of ways to make my terms and conditions of employment worse whilst threatening me in the meantime.

Brilliantly put! That's the very kernel of it and that's how it will pan out. It really makes the blood boil that a muppet is indeed sitting on his arse on 150K, virtually persecuting teachers, all the name of the buzz word of the moment, "reform". We may be powerless to stop him if the yes vote gets through but I also hold my hands up and admit that I'll be cutting back on prep and corrections. I too have put in many extra hours over the years and for the most part,enjoyed them.But if they're hell bent on turning me into a bureaucratic drone,that's all they'll be getting!

Peter Flynt wrote: »

I give back ten times more

If they want to waste my time doing boring irrelevant meetings and carrying out S&S duties they're not going to pay me for. . . then they can F Off - I'll do no more.

I'm not having some muppet on 150K+expenses a year in the DES sitting on his arse thinking of ways to make my terms and conditions of employment worse whilst threatening me in the meantime.

It's the Management rep bodies that came up with the ways of worsening teachers conditions. They can up with S&S, 33hrs, PTM after school, extra S&S hours and want us to be on the premises all day. Many Principals are a waste of space, staying in their box, doing everything in their power to annoy teachers and frustrate teaching. They tick every box including the thick box. And unfortunately they make up a significant part of the YES voters.