Lissadell -end of the struggle?

Curly Judge wrote: »

Razor wire?

Barbed wire and spikes.

Curly Judge wrote: »

I was obviously a little too obtuse in my last post, so I'll try again:
Are you asserting that the owners of Lissadell have erected razor wire around the premises?
By razor wire I mean the type commonly seen in movies surrounding mental institutions, prisons or military installations.
It's quite different from the wire farmers normally use to fence in stock, which is normally called barbed wire.

You chose to ignore my last post,you see plenty of barbed wire around mental instituitions,prisons and military installations and war zones.

Where was their faux concerns for health and safety while erecting this after throwing their toys out of the pram when they lost their case.

They put this up after they lost their high court case.

This case should be taken out of Ireland and put before a European court.

tipptom wrote: »

You chose to ignore my last post,you see plenty of barbed wire around mental instituitions,prisons and military installations and war zones.

Where was their faux concerns for health and safety while erecting this after throwing their toys out of the pram when they lost their case.

They put this up after they lost their high court case.

This case should be taken out of Ireland and put before a European court.

I seriously doubt the EC would tackle the thorny issue of our constitutional right to have and hold property.
They might, like they did in the abortion void, ask us to bring clarity and direction to the issue, but I feel this recent SC case has already done that.

tipptom wrote: »

I have no problem with them buying the property but they of all people knew that their was walking rights on that property when they bought it but they just decided they were going to railroad over that right no matter how much money they had to throw at it until they got the decision that they wanted,no matter how that would affect everybody in the community and refused any compromise or mediation and alienated a lot of people with their fences and razor wire.

PS;Im sure the Russians are a great bunch of lads.

But the whole question surrounds "Rights of Way" and the legal definition of same. I don't think there is anything such as "walking rights" without a right of way although I do not doubt that previous owners of the house allowed people walk/drive through the estate.

But from looking at the roads/driveways of the Lissadell Estate (hopefully link is OK), where a driveway on a private estate comes right past your front door, and you have children to be mindful of, then I would be reluctant to keep the open door policy. Then is it a case of you can use that driveway but not this driveway? It becomes a nightmare especially as some people developed a sense of entitlement to be on the estate instead of acknowledging that it was an extended courtesy they were there.

I was told of troubles with cars on the estate late at night and when the gates were locked as a prevention and a couple of times were not opened early morning for the "entitled to walk my dogs here" people, the fit hit the shan and a certain Councillor, who shall remain nameless, got involved. PS I acknowledge that this is heresay and I'm sure for every story I have, someone has two more to counter mine.

Kettleson wrote: »

FFS! So I goes out to get a big bag of pop corn and so when I returns its all gone QT.

Mind you I did hear that the place will eventually be converted into a (5 Star) luxury Bed & Breakfast Gaff for....errr....no it was only a rumour. I don't pay much heed to local gossip.

Er.... what was in that popcorn?

tipptom wrote: »

I would definatly agree with you about people going right up to the house,I just think it would have been good all round if they had went to mediation and compromised on areas like that and it could have been settled with goodwill all round.

Presumably some discourse took place between the parties before the Walsh - Cassidy family headed to the high court?
Is anyone in a position to fill us in on this?
The family may have decided, rightly in my opinion, that the level of law enforcement in Ireland is so piss poor that they had to take more effective action.
A work colleague of mine used to come in bleary eyed every morning having been kept awake by go-karters until the early hours.
When she rang the Garda the response was, "What do you want us to do about it".

Curly Judge wrote: »

Presumably some discourse took place between the parties before the Walsh - Cassidy family headed to the high court?
Is anyone in a position to fill us in on this?
The family may have decided, rightly in my opinion, that the level of law enforcement in Ireland is so piss poor that they had to take more effective action.
A work colleague of mine used to come in bleary eyed every morning having been kept awake by go-karters until the early hours.
When she rang the Garda the response was, "What do you want us to do about it".

As far as I'm aware, efforts at mediation were refused by the owners who instigated legal proceedings instead. I think most locals got annoyed as a result of this decision.
The initial closure of part of the main avenue past the house was done overnight and this was brought to a local Councillor. He took the matter up with the CoCo for clarification, and it went from there.
While that Councillor is now castigated by many keyboard warriors, I think that's what Councillors are elected to do. Represent people who contact them!
The issue with 'boy racers' is a national one on all roads, both main carriageways and rural small lanes, and in fairness to the Gardai, it's impossible to be everywhere.
I believe if they met with the Council, a decision to close to all but private traffic, the part of the avenue that leads right around the house would have been accepted by 99% of the locals. But there's always the 1%!
Closing the whole operation and blaming the Council wasn't a very wise decision when they then opened for the prerequisite minimum time to claim tax breaks. This was seen as very hollow by the majority of locals.
There were, without doubt, mistakes made by both sides but that's in the past now.
Just to clarify one more point, I have never been involved with either side in this unfortunate episode! I merely put forward my opinions and the story as I know it. I asked one poster on here if he/she was a local, because in cases like this you need local knowledge rather than depend on media reports for 'facts'!

Ham Sambo wrote: »

@red sean. No disrespect to your good self but you appear to be of the opinion that everybody living in North Sligo were backing this so called 'Lissadell Action Group', In fact nothing could be further from the truth! 39 people lost their jobs because of a couple of narrow minded 'locals' who resented a 'blow-in' coming into the area who was willing to invest millions of euros on their doorstep, and what did these handful of begrudgers do... kick him when he is down,

I remember the infamous Bona saying that the Irish guy feels more comfortable and happy when his neighbour hasn't an arse in his pants, and that our cousins in the states have a better outlook in life.. for instance.. Irish guy sees a rich guy driving down the road in a rolls Royce and says..some day I am going to get that basta*d, while his American cousin sees a rich guy drive down the road in a Rolls Royce and says.. some day I'm gonna be like him.
Narrow-minded begrudgery from narrow-minded people who have 'landlordism' still stuck in their throats, time to move on Sean and leave the past behind.

Totally incorrect.Read again what I said in the last paragraph!
I merely stated fact, which you apparently don't want to read.
As I said, there was no need for anyone to lose their jobs seeing as the estate opened every Sept/Oct. It could have been kept open all the time and the objectors may then have been a whole lot less. I don't know how many were in the "action group", but a lot not involved in it had very strong opinions also.
The new owners were warmly welcomed by everybody locally prior to this happening, so who they are or where they're from was irrelevent to everyone.

Read my post again to see I had no part whatsoever in supporting either side.

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Keeping it open on a limited basis was probably a financial decision. I run a small business ( not in sligo! ) and the public liability insurance on my modest premises just about makes me cry. I can only imagine what the bill for an extensive property with vehicular traffic would be. I know there are tax implications as well butnot sure on details of that. I have the impression that once the tax exemption lapses its difficult to reclaim?

This.

From Trinity News; "it would be virtually impossible for the estate to operate as a historic house or indeed as a private home if public rights of way were established. Insurance would not be granted for health and safety reasons"

I hope the house reopens to the public and it's a shame Sligo co co squandered so much tax payers € to try and make some sort of political point. I think part of the problem comes down to a nasty attitude "blow ins" and their money. Look at Tipptoms posts on the subject. Bonkers.

tipptom wrote: »

I said they came in knowing full well the situation at Lissadell and decided to ride roughshod over any rights that was there,refused to talk or to any compromise or mediation and when they lost their case they threw their toys out of the pram and put up barbed wire and fences across the area.

I presume you have evidence for all this?

.


a lot of anecdotal bulls..t being bandied about in here and one or two posters in danger of stepping in their own mess as they backtrack.

I would suggest that anyone not familiar with the FACTS of the case read the judgement provided:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/court-rules-in-favour-of-lissadell-owners-in-right-of-way-case-1.1590985

in summary - in the run up to local elections in Dec 2008, things not progressing quickly enough for local councillor Lenonard on the issue of public rights of way, so motion put down and adopted at council meeting, declaring rights of way through Lissadell estate.
the only way to have this extinguished is to go to court and get a declaration that the rights of way do not exist - which is what was done by the owners.


.

John_Rambo wrote: »

I'm talking about your rants, your new money references and your obvious hatred towards people you don't know and a situation you obviously know nothing about.



Don't know what you're on about. Bonkers.

There is a cabal on this thread who just want to bully anyone from posting who do not agree with the Walshe/Cassidys and against the people who used their democractic elected officals and because of this the whole population of Sligo has been called begrudgers,jealous and hatred of the family.

Now show me where I have said I have hated the family,?
I stand by everything I have said that they acted like vulgar new money in the way they tried to bully the local people in to submission and take advantage of laws that the government are afraid to bring in to line with every other civilised country because of fear of upsetting their core supporters,rich people,farmers and speculators and every cent was worth it in defending local people and that other groups may take some positivity from this that there is somebody to defend them from rich people trampling all over them.

tipptom wrote: »

I think if they could have stopped access to the house and private family areas and kept traffic out of the other areas all together, with the council taking on the financial burden of securing it with was needed to achieve this and allowed the local people walking their dogs and whatever, who would be an added eyes and ears around the area would have been a good compromise and if the council wouldn't have agreed to that,well then they deserved what they got in court.

I'm outta here.

Commendations to Sligo County Council for trying to retain access for Irish people to the Irish countryside! Its what our patriots fought for. But due to weak governance from our 'leaders' since then, our rights of access are being whittled away by - mostly - our own new wealthy classes (many of them from the legal profession). It was interesting to see the children of the family standing outside the Supreme Court, with the delight of having excluded us from 'their property' so evident - what an attitude for parents to promote in their children! They are all welcome to walk outside my home anytime.

kevkev56 wrote: »

Commendations to Sligo County Council for

Refusing to spend 4 million on the property and then, in a fit of jealous pettiness, spends 10 million of tax payers money trying to ruin it for the new owners in doing so getting the whole place shut down to the public?

John B Keane would be fascinated to see life imitating his art at such an official level.

Great job.