Science! Ask you question here. Biscuits NOT included and answers not guaranteed.

Terrlock · 19-11-2013 05:59PM

gaynorvader wrote: »

So because we haven't observed something in the last few thousand years (something we'd have only been capable of observing for the last 60 or so) that could be happening without our knowledge even now, that means it doesn't happen? Your whole argument is built up on the supposition that it's not possible if we haven't seen it. We're not all-knowing.

We have not observed it because it's not possible.

If you know anything about information you would know it has to come from someone.

For instance people can build computers but, who put's the information into them?

Or simpler, the paper in a book doesn't create the information on it.

Likewise you can theorise what basic chemicals made up the original DNA strands, but there is nothing that can explain how the original information for all life was put into DNA.

I mean think about it seriously. How could the information for all life be created from a few basic compounds coming together?

gaynorvader · 19-11-2013 06:01PM

FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?

Terrlock wrote: »

How exactly am I uneducated about astronomy?

It is theorised that most comets in our solar system come from the Oort cloud, however in reality this Oort cloud has never actually been proven.

Which is my point, both creationist's and evolutionists both argue with unproven theory's backing them up.

Except creationists tend to use disproven theories. The earth is older than 6 millennia. There is a huge amount of data to back this up. It is remotely possible that it isn't, but that a creator magicked it all into existence 6000 years ago, but even then, the earth was created 6000 years ago as a multi-billion year old planet.

Turtwig · 19-11-2013 06:03PM

Terrlock wrote: »

How exactly am I uneducated about astronomy?

It is theorised that most comets in our solar system come from the Oort cloud, however in reality this Oort cloud has never actually been proven.

Which is my point, both creationist's and evolutionists both argue with unproven theory's backing them up.

The Oort Cloud is a prediction that results plotting the trajectory of comets that enter the solar system. They all seem to emerge from that location in space. It might of course be Space Ants fiendish attempts to attack the earth. Rico's time will come.

Creationists don't make predictions they just spout nonsense to fill a narrative. The Oort Cloud narrative may change in the time as more data and observations come in. Noah's flood story likely never will.

Cabaal · 19-11-2013 06:03PM

OMG! Spoiler!

Terrlock wrote: »

We have not observed it because it's not possible.

If you know anything about information you would know it has to come from someone.

For instance people can build computers but, who put's the information into them?

Or simpler, the paper in a book doesn't create the information on it.

Likewise you can theorise what basic chemicals made up the original DNA strands, but there is nothing that can explain how the original information for all life was put into DNA.

I mean think about it seriously. How could the information for all life be created from a few basic compounds coming together?

All your examples can be explained by god, :rolleyes:

God put the info on computers, built them to (he owns Google, Dell & Apple). He did the same with books. He remote controlled people to do all the stuff he wanted them to do.

Also the invention of the WWW by Tim Berner-Lee, that was God as well. Good old Tim was controlled by God during that time.

Of course you can't disprove this, it just happened
:rolleyes:

gaynorvader · 19-11-2013 06:04PM

FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?

Terrlock wrote: »

We have not observed it because it's not possible.

Wrong.

If you know anything about information you would know it has to come from someone.

No it doesn't

For instance people can build computers but, who put's the information into them?

Or simpler, the paper in a book doesn't create the information on it.

Humans didn't create the universe.

Likewise you can theorise what basic chemicals made up the original DNA strands, but there is nothing that can explain how the original information for all life was put into DNA.

Trial and error.

I mean think about it seriously. How could the information for all life be created from a few basic compounds coming together?

Time.

Sarky · 19-11-2013 06:05PM

OMG! Spoiler!

Terrlock wrote: »

We have not observed it because it's not possible.

If you know anything about information you would know it has to come from someone.

For instance people can build computers but, who put's the information into them?

Or simpler, the paper in a book doesn't create the information on it.

Likewise you can theorise what basic chemicals made up the original DNA strands, but there is nothing that can explain how the original information for all life was put into DNA.

I mean think about it seriously. How could the information for all life be created from a few basic compounds coming together?

No. Just... no.

Here, you can start by reading up the Wiki entries for genomics, systems biology and next generation DNA sequencing. After you have that under your belt, maybe one of us can begin to tell you why everything you've said is just wrong.

Delirium · 19-11-2013 06:06PM

FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?

Terrlock wrote: »

We have not observed it because it's not possible.

If you know anything about information you would know it has to come from someone.

For instance people can build computers but, who put's the information into them?

Or simpler, the paper in a book doesn't create the information on it.

Likewise you can theorise what basic chemicals made up the original DNA strands, but there is nothing that can explain how the original information for all life was put into DNA.

I mean think about it seriously. How could the information for all life be created from a few basic compounds coming together?

And were did God get all the information? you're just shifting the problem back a step, you're not answer it.

An Riabhach · 19-11-2013 06:07PM

J C wrote: »

It certainly adds credibility to it.
... and this is just the latest of several films about it.

When you mention credibility-other bible based and so called "based on true story" films spring to mind i.e. "The Exorcism Of Emily Rose" and "The Omen".If themes of those films seem credible to you,can you explain the complete lack of intervention by the "all powerful god"? I just want to know the opinion of somebody who believes.If I was still a believer,those films would give me the impression that god was powerless over evil-or just a coward,pure and simple.

Terrlock · 19-11-2013 06:09PM

iDave wrote: »

What has the 'unproven' Oort cloud got to do with evolution. They are radically different fields of study.

because evolution basis it's theory on species evolving over millions of years which would be impossible if the planet was not around millions of years.

Sin City · 19-11-2013 06:09PM

Obliq · 19-11-2013 06:11PM

FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?

Terrlock wrote: »

Well what is evil?

If there is no God, then there is no evil or good for that matter.

Well, yes. That is a possibility. To my mind it would be more correct to talk about social and anti-social. Our notions of what is accepted and what is shunned are culturally based and are somewhat different from place to place, but with some broadly archetypal ideas of what is unacceptable. One culture's tasty human leg and pretty shrunken head is another culture's horror of cannibalism, for example.

Terrlock wrote: »

If we are just the result of genetic mutations and random disasters then where did this whole sense of morality come from?

Why does anyone have the right to decide what is right or wrong?

Now that is a very good question, but we are coming at it from two very different directions. Empathy, emotion and highly developed social awareness has been studied and shown to occur in other animals than just us. As jernal said earlier, morality is a social construct (or did you jernal? I might be remembering wrong).

Terrlock · 19-11-2013 06:11PM

bumper234 wrote: »

I have seen a comet with my own eyes.

I have seen a meteorite with my own eyes.

Have you seen a god with your own eyes?

Yes I have seen God with my own eyes, however I didn't look upon his face.

MrPudding · 19-11-2013 06:11PM

OMG! Spoiler!

I generally don't like sock puppet accounts, but in this case I am hoping Terrlock is a JC sock puppet, please don't let there be another of them.

MrP

robindch · 19-11-2013 06:12PM

FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?

koth wrote: »

creationists use religious myths, not theories.

Well, in all fairness, that's all they have.

iDave · 19-11-2013 06:14PM

Terrlock wrote: »

Yes I have seen God with my own eyes, however I didn't look upon his face.

When, where? how did this encounter take place? This is an important piece of information that could swing the argument in your favour but your account of the meeting is vague and lacking detail
Why didn't you look at his face?

Turtwig · 19-11-2013 06:16PM

Terrlock wrote: »

We have not observed it because it's not possible.

If you know anything about information you would know it has to come from someone.

For instance people can build computers but, who put's the information into them?

Or simpler, the paper in a book doesn't create the information on it.

Likewise you can theorise what basic chemicals made up the original DNA strands, but there is nothing that can explain how the original information for all life was put into DNA.

I mean think about it seriously. How could the information for all life be created from a few basic compounds coming together?

Information doesn't have to come from someone at all. Computers are proof of that. The smaller something is (up to a limit of course) the easier it to be chemically active because you have more surface area to work with. A computer is merely the results of controlled electrical currents on a really small level. The "information" is merely an array of switches "On/Off" working in tandem to produce a desired output.

The question you are asking is assuming that everything around you works the same way on the smaller length scales it doesn't. A material's properties and behaviours change the smaller you go. Hence that big buzz word 'nanotechnology'. Molecules are arrangement of atoms and some of these structures can store information. No design or anything necessary. Sarky's best to explain to this.

Cabaal · 19-11-2013 06:16PM

OMG! Spoiler!

Terrlock wrote: »

because evolution basis it's theory on species evolving over millions of years which would be impossible if the planet was not around millions of years.

Evolution is just one in a long long long long longgggggg line of things which religious people claim is false and goes against faith/god/fairys/the cookie monster. Of course all the evidence supports this theory just like all the evidence available supports the theory of gravity.

Remember, its your faith that murdered people for saying that the earth was not the center of the universe or that the earth goes around the sun and not the other way around.

Why aren't you here arguing that these things are wrong?
I've not seen you posting about how you dispute the theory of gravity?

gaynorvader · 19-11-2013 06:17PM

FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?

iDave wrote: »

When, where? how did this encounter take place? This is an important piece of information that could swing the argument in your favour but your account of the meeting is vague and lacking detail
Why didn't you look at his face?

Pretty sure if you look at God in the face he gets really really mad and destroys your whole species. It happened with the dinosaurs and almost happened to us except we were better at building boats than them.

Pherekydes · 19-11-2013 06:20PM

FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?

Terrlock wrote: »

because evolution basis it's theory on species evolving over millions of years which would be impossible if the planet was not around millions of years.

So how old is our planet?

/should be worth waiting for...

Cabaal · 19-11-2013 06:22PM

OMG! Spoiler!

gaynorvader wrote: »

Pretty sure if you look at God in the face he gets really really mad and destroys your whole species. It happened with the dinosaurs and almost happened to us except we were better at building boats than them.

Don't be silly,
everyone knows Dinosaurs evolved, built star ships and they currently reside in the Delta Quadrant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distant_Origin
(includes nice story about how faith stands in the way of science and progress)

gaynorvader · 19-11-2013 06:24PM

FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?

Cabaal wrote: »

Don't be silly,
everyone knows Dinosaurs evolved, built star ships and they currently reside in the Delta Quadrant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distant_Origin
(includes nice story about how faith stands in the way of science and progress)

Some of them, sure, but the Amish Dinosaurs were left on Earth.

Sarky · 19-11-2013 06:25PM

OMG! Spoiler!

Jernal wrote: »

Sarky's best to explain to this.

I don't think I can do it any more. Not without one of you banning me after. Ask oldrnwisr, he might have the necessary patience.

Terrlock · 19-11-2013 06:26PM

Cabaal wrote: »

Evolution is just one in a long long long long longgggggg line of things which religious people claim is false and goes against faith/god/fairys/the cookie monster. Of course all the evidence supports this theory just like all the evidence available supports the theory of gravity.

Remember, its your faith that murdered people for saying that the earth was not the center of the universe or that the earth goes around the sun and not the other way around.

Why aren't you here arguing that these things are wrong?
I've not seen you posting about how you dispute the theory of gravity?

You mean various groups that so called themselves religious and God fearing murdered and killed people. I'm not affiliated with any do called religious group. And I would argue against those who have murdered people.

I would not hold the Vatican in any way an example of God's nature.

isn't gravity a law not a theory?

Turtwig · 19-11-2013 06:27PM

Sarky wrote: »

I don't think I can do it any more. Not without one of you banning me after. Ask oldrnwisr, he might have the necessary patience.

Ooh. I'm not asking you to explain it to him. I'm just asking you to explain the cool aspects of how molecules can retain information and how can sort of 'programme' them.

EdgarFriendly · 19-11-2013 06:27PM

Terrlock wrote: »

because evolution basis it's theory on species evolving over millions of years which would be impossible if the planet was not around millions of years.

The planet is 4.54 billion years old. We have confirmed this via an array of different radiometric dating techniques, which are extremely accurate.

Evolution is an observable fact, in many ways. Through the fossil record, through DNA analysis, and through lab experiments.

It's a done deal. Get over it.

Sonics2k · 19-11-2013 06:27PM

Terrlock wrote: »

isn't gravity a law not a theory?

NO IT'S NOT.

GOD DAMN IT. READ A BOOK.

Cabaal · 19-11-2013 06:29PM

OMG! Spoiler!

Terrlock wrote: »

isn't gravity a law not a theory?

Turtwig · 19-11-2013 06:29PM

Terrlock wrote: »

isn't gravity a law not a theory?

Newton's Law of Gravitation is a law that works for most Earthly everyday things. It's wrong however. Gravity is one the least understood of the physical forces. We have, as yet, no direct evidence for gravity waves and gravitons.

An Riabhach · 19-11-2013 06:29PM

Terrlock wrote: »

Well what is evil?

If there is no God, then there is no evil or good for that matter.

And if there is a God and he created everything, then evil would simply be going against the will of that God.

If God sees that his creation is going against his will then who are we to argue against that. I don't have the ability to over rule God's judgements.

Wrong.
Good and evil are human traits-they are both man-made.

Your god's idea of evil is homosexuality,atheism and indulgence,while forgiveness is offered to what we see as true evil i.e. murder,child abuse,rape etc.etc.

And if you think your god is not responsible for evil,doesnt your bible tell you that lucifer was one of his angels? I cant believe I am even talking about this.

Terrlock · 19-11-2013 06:33PM

Jernal wrote: »

Information doesn't have to come from someone at all. Computers are proof of that. The smaller something is (up to a limit of course) the easier it to be chemically active because you have more surface area to work with. A computer is merely the results of controlled electrical currents on a really small level. The "information" is merely an array of switches "On/Off" working in tandem to produce a desired output.

The question you are asking is assuming that everything around you works the same way on the smaller length scales it doesn't. A material's properties and behaviours change the smaller you go. Hence that big buzz word 'nanotechnology'. Molecules are arrangement of atoms and some of these structures can store information. No design or anything necessary. Sarky's best to explain to this.

Computers are used by people to store and process information. However computers do not create information on there own.

Even though the information is conveyed as a result of "On/OFF" it would not be doing anything if human's had not programmed them to do so.

Sure we now have the technology to store information in molecules, however the information itself still has to come from some one.

Just like a computer is useless without it's software and a computer did not create it's own software to run.

Science! Ask you question here. Biscuits NOT included and answers not guaranteed.

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