Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Science! Ask you question here. Biscuits NOT included and answers not guaranteed.

1…78101213…48

Comments

  • #272
    iDave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,750 ✭✭✭iDave


    Even ignoring the compelling and comprehensive scientific evidence against the flood surely the fact that Noah was just a more grandiose rip off of Gilgamesh not completely invalidate it?


  • #273
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Obliq wrote: »
    Can we at least have a A&A party for Oldr when he hits 1000 posts?! :cool::D

    I'd be very careful about post parties. I heard a story about a moderator at the Nov beers bragging about his post count. Over 20,000 I believe. The following the day his post count numbered 218. :D


  • #274
    EdgarFriendly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29 ✭EdgarFriendly


    J C wrote: »
    You are confusing speciation per se with the viability of the resulting offspring.
    Speciation can occur spontaneously or by hybridisation.

    No, you're confusing a "hybrid species" with a "species". Ligers do not receive their own unique scientific classification - instead it is an amalgamation of their parents' classifications.
    J C wrote: »
    A Liger is technically a new species (although not a very viable one) as it has serious breeding difficulties. It would appear that the spontaneous speciation capacity of all creatures is now practically exhausted ... but the variety of current viable species that can interbreed with each other (to some degree) indicates that very significant levels of speciation occurred within Baramin in the past ... and this is a key reason why Noah didn't have to bring breeding pairs of every species alive today onto the Ark ... he only need one sample pair from each Baramin.

    No, it isn't I'm afraid. You're trying to cite the Liger as an example of "spontaneous speciation" in order to prove the Ark fable -- but the very animal you cite defeats your own argument, as Ligers do not have the capacity to produce a sustainable population.

    It is biologically impossible for 2 of any species to create a sustainable population of their species. There simply isn't enough genetic variation. And in order for evolution to occur, variation is necessary.
    J C wrote: »
    Speciation can be quite rapid ... as the divergence of dog breeds prove ... and it is obviously instantaneous where divergence of chromosome numbers is the cause.

    I don't think you understand what the term species means yet. All domestic dogs are the same species - Canis lupus familiaris. Moreover, artificial selection occurs much more rapidly than natural selection. The variety of dog breeds we see today arose because of artificial selection, not natural selection.
    J C wrote: »
    So what? Kangaroos (other than the ones in the Zoo) may never have lived in Ireland but we have had all kinds of exotic creatures including feral Bears, Wild Boar, Reindeer and Giant Elk in residence.

    So what? Everyone on this thread knows exactly why there is an issue with the ark theory. If Noah had a pair of every animal on the planet (biological problems aside), and left them off the ark to roam free when the waters dropped (Oceanography issues aside) - you have the following issues to determine.

    1) How did the animals cross from continent to continent?
    2) Why are the majority of Marsupials located only in Australia, if there are an array of habitats around the world that could have supported them?
    3) Where are there no mentions of animals not known to those who live in the areas of biblical scripture in the bible? Kangaroos? Platypus?
    4) How did penguins reached the south pole?
    5) How did the Tasmanian Tiger reach Tasmania?

    I could go on, and on, and on...

    Noah's Ark is a fable, or at best an exaggerated story of a local flood event (perhaps a tsunami). There is not enough water to cover the earth, there is not a boat big enough to hold all of the species on the planet and there is not enough genetic variation in 2 members of any species to repopulate the planet.

    The power of delusion is a crazy thing.


  • #275
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,073 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    read this on Wiki
    Christian screenwriter Brian Godawa acquired a copy of the script in October 2012, he posted an evaluation on his website with the title "Darren Aronofsky's Noah: Environmentalist Wacko". Comparing it to what is said in the Bible, he said "If you were expecting a Biblically faithful retelling of the story of the greatest mariner in history and a tale of redemption and obedience to God you’ll be sorely disappointed." He predicted that the film "will be rejected by millions of devoted Bible readers worldwide because once again it subverts their own sacred narrative with a political agenda of pagan earth religion that is offensive to their Faith.

    Basically it is gonna be like Avatar


  • #276
    Obliq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?
    Jernal wrote: »
    I'd be very careful about post parties. I heard a story about a moderator at the Nov beers bragging about his post count. Over 20,000 I believe. The following the day his post count numbered 218. :D

    Qué?? Are you telling me that moderators have the POWER to alter a post count???! Ok, whatev's....I'm still in awe of oldrnwisr NO MATTER WHAT YOU THROW AT ME. I have discovered FAITH, dammit, and I'm sticking to it.


    (JC, shut up. It's not the same thing as your faith. Mine has evidence :rolleyes:)


  • Advertisement
  • #277
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Obliq wrote: »
    Qué?? Are you telling me that moderators have the POWER to alter a post count???! Ok, whatev's....I'm still in awe of oldrnwisr NO MATTER WHAT YOU THROW AT ME. I have discovered FAITH, dammit, and I'm sticking to it.


    (JC, shut up. It's not the same thing as your faith. Mine has evidence :rolleyes:)

    I believe they do. However, in this instance I believe it was actually the Admins.


  • #278
    Gordon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,522 ✭✭✭✭Gordon


    A Better question would be, would the Dr. have rescued Noah?
    wprathead wrote: »
    read this on Wiki



    Basically it is gonna be like Avatar
    After what you quoted, I may watch it now..

    If that's true, I'm surprised that Christians would be unhappy about it, it's not like their religion isn't constantly changing thanks to their leaders' whimsical rule changes, it's just religious evolution. The creationists will evolve eventually, also, probably.


  • #279
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    robindch wrote: »
    In all fairness, the christian deity isn't a god people should look up to.

    I'm with -- was it Christopher Hitchens? -- on this once one learns about the purported actions and values of the christian god, one should strive to exceed them in every way and at every turn. As most people are not mass murderers, that's something that most people should be able to do easily.
    This repeated accusation that God is a mass murderer is a confusion on your part ... as a God of Justice ... God is no more a murderer than a just judge who sentences a convicted criminal to death for a heinous crime or the executioner who carries out the execution.
    He is no more a murderer than a policeman who calls on somebody to lay down their arms ... and shoots them when they refuse.
    He is no more a murderer than an army general on whose orders thousands of enemy troops die ... in order to prevent an even greater evil occurring.

    In the case of the Fall ... it was Mankind who introduced physical death into the Universe ... by throwing in their lot with Satan ... so please don't blame God for that.

    In the case of the Flood, evil was so widespread that nearly everyone was engaged in evil all of the time ... and God judged that the only solution was to almost wipe out all life and start again ... so please don't blame God for that either.

    I also agree that everyone should strive to exceed God ... but as this is impossible, we should be happy when we imitate His goodness and love ... in our own imperfect way.

    ... and when it comes to the justice dimension to God ... we should leave the administration of justice to the state, in the short-term ... and to God in the long-term.


  • #280
    Gordon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,522 ✭✭✭✭Gordon


    A Better question would be, would the Dr. have rescued Noah?
    Jernal wrote: »
    I believe they do. However, in this instance I believe it was actually the Admins.
    We may have had those permissions when that happened, can't remember. Think it could have been a dev that did that though. We (admins) can't change post count... actually I just checked and I think we can, but I think it changes back when a new post is created. Or we shouldn't do it as we'll break stuff!


  • #281
    Obliq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?
    Jernal wrote: »
    I believe they do. However, in this instance I believe it was actually the Admins.

    Bleedin' minions. tumblr_m1wzh3OOQf1r2e1lj.gif


  • Advertisement
  • #282
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,034 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?
    J C wrote: »
    This repeated accusation that God is a mass murderer is a confusion on your part ... as a God of Justice ... God is no more a murderer than a just judge who sentences a convicted criminal to death for a heinous crime or the executioner who carries out the execution.
    He is no more a murderer than a policeman who calls on somebody to lay down their arms ... and shoots them when they refuse.
    He is no more a murderer than an army general on whose orders thousands of enemy troops die ... in order to prevent an even greater evil occurring.

    In the case of the Fall ... it was Mankind who introduced physical death into the Universe ... by throwing in their lot with Satan ... so please don't blame God for that.

    In the case of the Flood, evil was so widespread that nearly everyone was engaged in evil all of the time ... and God judged that the only solution was to almost wipe out all life and start again ... so please don't blame God for that either.

    I also agree that everyone should strive to exceed God ... but as this is impossible, we should be happy when we imitate His goodness and love ... in our own imperfect way.

    ... and when it comes to the justice dimension to God ... we should leave the administration of justice to the state, in the short-term ... and to God in the long-term.

    Justice should relative to the crime. I can think of nothing that warrants the drowning of all life on Earth. It is an act of such evil that it's almost beyond comprehension.

    It is the act of a cowardly, craven killer. If such a deity/creature exists it is the greatest threat to humanity.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #283
    Obliq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?
    Gordon wrote: »
    We may have had those permissions when that happened, can't remember. Think it could have been a dev that did that though. We (admins) can't change post count... actually I just checked and I think we can, but I think it changes back when a new post is created. Or we shouldn't do it as we'll break stuff!

    Sorry, sorry sor....but I HAVE to ask. What is a "dev", and have you ever broken anything (that you would take back if you could) by messing with your powers? (This may not be as off topic as it looks really....:rolleyes:)


  • #284
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    robindch wrote: »
    JC has been making the same bizarre claims for almost nine years, since his/her first post in February 2005.

    What's remarkable about these posts is their hopeless, dreadful consistency and JC appears to have learned nothing from almost nine years of pointlessly patient exposition from some truly great posters across what must be the entire field of modern biology. Their posts have been a revelation to me, just as much as JC's have not.
    ... and they have been a revelation to me ... about just how little evidence there actually is for abiogenesis and evolution. This has often been hidden by a welter of personally abusive comments about both myself and God ... as well as random 'pot shots' at Creation Science conclusions ... while studiously ignoring much greater deficiencies in the Abiogenesis/Evolution hypothesis.
    The most recent posts are a good example in microcosm ... myself and oldrwiser were engaged in a serious and civil debate over Noahs Flood and the physical evidence for and against it ... when other people jumped in and mobbed the thread with accusations that I was insane ... and that God was evil or insane or both.
    robindch wrote: »
    In any case, either JC's the most durable troll accounts on boards -- hell, perhaps one of the most durable on the internet -- or else he/she is demonstrably incapable of learning anything.

    It would make an interesting, if morbid, calculation to figure out from the boards backend database, how many words JC has posted on this topic, and from that, an estimate of how many hours might have been spent, typing away into the long, lonely marches of the night without so much as a single conversion to show for it all. Religious fundamentalism is a cold, harsh thing at the best of times, but for its encouragement and legitimization of this kind of divide-by-zero behavior, deserves nothing but the greatest condemnation.
    I am not a religious fundamentalist ... but there are a number of other people on these threads behaving like religious bigots in the bullying abusive comments that they direct at me.

    All I'm doing is presenting the evidence ... I leave the conclusions to the readers ... and any salvation result to God.


  • #285
    Gordon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,522 ✭✭✭✭Gordon


    A Better question would be, would the Dr. have rescued Noah?
    Obliq wrote: »
    Sorry, sorry sor....but I HAVE to ask. What is a "dev", and have you ever broken anything (that you would take back if you could) by messing with your powers? (This may not be as off topic as it looks really....:rolleyes:)
    No, it was always entirely justified, any actions I had to take. For example, once I completely erased millions of boards accounts, years ago, but it's ok because nearly every one of them were really bad people. And I know that, because I'm right.

    ('A dev' is a developer. Ross' name springs to mind with that occasion, but I could be wrong.)


  • #286
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    Justice should relative to the crime. I can think of nothing that warrants the drowning of all life on Earth. It is an act of such evil that it's almost beyond comprehension.

    It is the act of a cowardly, craven killer. If such a deity/creature exists it is the greatest threat to humanity.
    You may not be able to think of any reason why God acts as He does ... but I'd trust His omniscient judgement any day, in preference to yours.

    If Humanity behaves itself, it has nothing to fear from God ... and if it doesn't ... it could well have reason to fear Him ... just like every lawbreaker has every reason to fear a just judge.


  • #287
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,030 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Gordon wrote: »
    We may have had those permissions when that happened, can't remember. Think it could have been a dev that did that though. We (admins) can't change post count... actually I just checked and I think we can, but I think it changes back when a new post is created. Or we shouldn't do it as we'll break stuff!

    Ye can still change post-counts the old fashioned way by soft-deleting a load of posts. :pac:


  • #288
    Soft Falling Rain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭Soft Falling Rain


    20 pages of this? Really?

    It's a film, with no-one involved (in the actual making of it at least) claiming it to be factual. Try and enjoy it once it comes out without your mind going a mile a minute thinking of the "lol inaccuracies".


  • #289
    Obliq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?
    Gordon wrote: »
    No, it was always entirely justified, any actions I had to take. For example, once I completely erased millions of boards accounts, years ago, but it's ok because nearly every one of them were really bad people.)

    'Course it was Boss. And we THANK you for pointing out our shortcomings, that we may be a better bunch of bollixes next year, GORD preserve us. :D


  • #290
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,030 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    J C wrote: »
    If Humanity behaves itself, it has nothing to fear from God ... and if it doesn't ... it could well have reason to fear Him ... just like any other just judge.

    Philippines? Haiti? Japan? New Orleans?


  • #291
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,034 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?
    J C wrote: »
    You may not be able to think of any reason why God acts as He does ... but I'd trust His omniscient judgement any day in preference to yours.
    I can think of plenty of reasons. The problem is that they all point to an evil creature as the answer.
    If Humanity behaves itself, it has nothing to fear from God ... and if it doesn't ... it could well have reason to fear Him ... just like any other just judge.
    The problem is that just being an atheist is 'misbehaving'. Wiping out life for failing to grovel is not justice on any scale.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Advertisement
  • #292
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    OMG! Spoiler!
    J C wrote: »
    I am not a religious fundamentalist ...
    Not a fundamentalist? JC, you put the mental in fundamentalist.

    MrP


  • #293
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Insect Overlord wrote: »
    Philippines? Haiti? Japan? New Orleans?
    That's just bad weather and seismic activity ... with terrible consequences for the unfortunate people caught up in it.
    God has said that He will not engage in punishments involving water and seismic activity again.


  • #294
    Rayne Wooney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,136 ✭✭✭✭Rayne Wooney


    But god controls weather and seismic activity, being omnipotent and all...


  • #295
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Not a fundamentalist? JC, you put the mental in fundamentalist.

    MrP
    ... and you certainly don't put much fun into your anti-God fundamentalism.:)


  • #296
    Obliq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?
    Odd, the way there's a good few threads in A&A and Christianity that are addressing the HELL concept at the moment. I've never seen it before up here. I wonder is it due to this woejus looking film or is it due to some kind of collective judgementalism. It could be that there is a full moon, so my partner reliably informs me (as an explanation of sorts for my current behaviour...).


  • #297
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Rayne Wooney wrote: »
    But god controls weather and seismic activity, being omnipotent and all...
    God has chosen not to exercise His omnipotence ... it's all bound up with His respect for the laws of nature that He has established ... and the free-will with which He has endowed Humanity.


  • #298
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    OMG! Spoiler!
    Oh just stop it J C. You've embarrassed yourself enough for a hundred lifetimes already.


  • #299
    Rayne Wooney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,136 ✭✭✭✭Rayne Wooney


    J C wrote: »
    God has chosen not to exercise His omnipotence ... it's all bound up with His respect for the laws of nature that He has established ... and the free-will with which He has endowed Humanity.

    So he'll break his own laws to punish some evil people, but won't break them when millions of innocent lives are on the line?

    Sounds like a lovely god.


  • #300
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    Soft Falling Rain wrote: »
    20 pages of this? Really?

    It's a film, with no-one involved (in the actual making of it at least) claiming it to be factual. Try and enjoy it once it comes out without your mind going a mile a minute thinking of the "lol inaccuracies".
    Most of the topic has been a creationist arguing in favour of an ark. ;)
    J C wrote: »
    That's just bad weather and seismic activity ... with terrible consequences for the unfortunate people caught up in it.
    God has said that He will not engage in punishments involving water and seismic activity again.
    Allowing such weather events when one can stop them effortlessly and save many lives in the process isn't a great reflection upon a god. Plus killing off a planet through flooding outweighs any evil which those people had committed. It's mass murder for the latter and mass manslaughter for the former.


  • Advertisement
  • #301
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    I can think of plenty of reasons. The problem is that they all point to an evil creature as the answer.
    That's your problem then.
    I know God ... and I know Him to be loving and meciful and just in equal measures.
    I choose to avail of His love and mercy ... you are perfectly free to avail of His justice, if you wish to.
    koth wrote: »
    The problem is that just being an atheist is 'misbehaving'. Wiping out life for failing to grovel is not justice on any scale.
    It was wiped out for being irredeemably evil ... not for thinking that He didn't exist.


Advertisement