25% of Irish men in their 20s have slept with another man

Drakares · 16-11-2013 10:03PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The immaturity and sniggering of Irish people with regard to homosexuality knows no boundaries and still thrives

Nonsense.

The point people are making is that these statistics are pulled out of someones arse, not that there's something wrong with homosexuality.

Get over yourself.

Annasopra · 16-11-2013 10:13PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

People aren't trying to say that their straight or gay their saying they are Bisexual how is that misrepresenting peoples behaviour?

And the groupings Mango Salsa is refering to aren't people that have a one of experience and don't like it.

It's misrepresenting their identity. I have no idea what your second paragraph means. It's interesting as well that no one is engaging in any discussion on the huffington post article I posted.

16-11-2013 10:20PM

Why is Men Who Have Sex With Men shortened to MSM? Surely MWHSWM makes more sense.

RDM_83 again · 16-11-2013 10:35PM

mango salsa wrote: »

It's misrepresenting their identity. I have no idea what your second paragraph means. It's interesting as well that no one is engaging in any discussion on the huffington post article I posted.

Behavior ≠ self assigned identity

People can ascribe themselves whatever identity they like, as external observers however we are allowed to observe their behavior and using the correct non-judgmental definitions ascribe their behavior to those categories.

Your not answering my question about why MSM can't also fall under the broader bisexual category.

I would describe the majority of those behaviors listed in that article as bisexuality, since the person is receiving sexual gratification from their behavior with a member of the opposite sex (attraction is still present in some way in most of those categories even though it may not be "typical" ) it fits the broader definition of bisexuality

Annasopra · 16-11-2013 11:04PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Behavior ≠ self assigned identity

People can ascribe themselves whatever identity they like, as external observers however we are allowed to observe their behavior and using the correct non-judgmental definitions ascribe their behavior to those categories.

Your not answering my question about why MSM can't also fall under the broader bisexual category.

I would describe the majority of those behaviors listed in that article as bisexuality, since the person is receiving sexual gratification from their behavior with a member of the opposite sex (attraction is still present in some way in most of those categories even though it may not be "typical" ) it fits the broader definition of bisexuality

What exactly makes you an expert that you are able to categorise someone else's identity?

I'm afraid you don't seem to understand that msm is a broad category already and it simply couldn't be recategorised into one of its own sub categories.

You also don't seem to understand that msm was created precisely because everyone does not neatly fit into the three categories of homosexual, heterosexual and bisexual.

foggy_lad · 16-11-2013 11:47PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/men-are-more-likely-to-have-samesex-experiences-29749603.html

I'm usually loathe to reproduce anything by the Indo but in this instance it was a poll of 1,000 people so therefore statistically significant.

Results show that 13% of Irish men in their thirties have slept with another man. For Irish men in their 20s that rises to 25%, one in every four.

The poll doesn't specify exactly what is meant, it just says that 25% of Irish men in their 20s have had a sexual encounter with another man. I suppose in theory that could cover men who have had threesomes with another man and a girl.

Still though pretty surprising results, you big pack of dirty dogs !

The article does not state what exactly a same sex experience is or even if there is oral or anal sex involved and more importantly it does not go into the age these people were when they had their experience, this is most important as many teens will experiment with their friends of the same sex as part of growing up. So the article is not great really as far as research and statistics go just sensationalist crap.

rockbeast · 17-11-2013 12:21AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

The article does not state what exactly a same sex experience is or even if there is oral or anal sex involved and more importantly it does not go into the age these people were when they had their experience, this is most important as many teens will experiment with their friends of the same sex as part of growing up. So the article is not great really as far as research and statistics go just sensationalist crap.

Having gone back to college in my old age, and studying Applied Market Research as part of the course, I can tell everyone that those stats are BS.

A Primal Nut · 17-11-2013 12:35AM

I think a lot of this plays into some guys fantasies. Almost every gay guy I know has that story where they slept with a straight guy, who never had any other gay experience. It seems to be a badge of honour, as if to suggest they are so attractive that they "converted" a straight guy. It's absolute nonsense of course. Like with a lot of relationships the "straight" guy is telling the other guy want they want to hear. The reality is they are at least bisexual and have probably had sex with many other guys before or after, whether they are married or not. So they are not straight guys converted for one night only no matter how much some people want to believe it.

These stats play perfectly into these fantasies but the vagueness of the statistics suggests an agenda.

clairefontaine · 17-11-2013 01:13AM

smurgen wrote: »

Yes and I would classify those men as bisexual.very passive aggressive tone to your post,what's with the hostility?

Why?

What's with the need to classify it?

Maybe it comes down to opportunity or disinhibition or whatever at that particular moment.

Does it really matter that much?

smurgen · 17-11-2013 01:55AM

clairefontaine wrote: »

Why?

What's with the need to classify it?

Maybe it comes down to opportunity or disinhibition or whatever at that particular moment.

Does it really matter that much?

No not at all.I think everyone should follow what feels natural to them and make no excuses.what happens between two consenting adults is completely their own business.however given the context of the thread I think it matters.there's no need to get your back up about it so much.

Dancing With Myself · 17-11-2013 01:59AM

Muahahaha wrote: »

The poll doesn't specify exactly what is meant, it just says that 25% of Irish men in their 20s have had a sexual encounter with another man. I suppose in theory that could cover men who have had threesomes with another man and a girl.

Still though pretty surprising results, you big pack of dirty dogs !

Yeah, I guess it doesn't necessarily mean they ALL got **** dicked. I haven't even slept with a girl!

dd972 · 17-11-2013 02:04AM

How about a thread about Gay Travellers ?, anyone ? :pac:

Galwayguy35 · 17-11-2013 06:18AM

dd972 wrote: »

How about a thread about Gay Travellers ?, anyone ? :pac:

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about travellers, there's lots of them around here if you want to meet a few of them.

RDM_83 again · 17-11-2013 06:28AM

mango salsa wrote: »

What exactly makes you an expert that you are able to categorise someone else's identity?

I'm afraid you don't seem to understand that msm is a broad category already and it simply couldn't be recategorised into one of its own sub categories.

You also don't seem to understand that msm was created precisely because everyone does not neatly fit into the three categories of homosexual, heterosexual and bisexual.

But you seem to be completely denying that that MSN whatever about self assessed identity does fit into the broader category of bisexuality in terms of behaviour. Why is that a problem?
I don't consider somebody thats Bi any worse than somebody thats excursively straight or gay

A person that engages in sexual contact repeatably with another member of the same sex is displaying bisexual behavior that is bisexual.

I am a white cultural catholic irish male, each of those thing doesn;t ascribe my complete "identity" but each of them is true independent of the other.
Edit: I am no way an expert is defining anothers identity but who created the category of MSM? If your going to be technical about it did it ever feature as an MSN? the simple fact it is MSN fit into the category of bisexuality

getzls · 17-11-2013 06:44AM

Muahahaha wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/men-are-more-likely-to-have-samesex-experiences-29749603.html

Results show that 13% of Irish men in their thirties have slept with another man. For Irish men in their 20s that rises to 25%, one in every four.

This poll of course does not include us Protestants in the North.

As you know we are not like that.

camel jockey · 17-11-2013 10:16AM

Bloody hipsters, make up your minds.

dd972 · 17-11-2013 11:51AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about travellers, there's lots of them around here if you want to meet a few of them.

Not at all, just ridiculing the folk devil status of two minorities that feature with tedious regularity on these boards and the pubs and public places of this country. There's more to life than Travellers and Gays.

Annasopra · 17-11-2013 12:11PM

A Primal Nut wrote: »

I think a lot of this plays into some guys fantasies. Almost every gay guy I know has that story where they slept with a straight guy, who never had any other gay experience. It seems to be a badge of honour, as if to suggest they are so attractive that they "converted" a straight guy. It's absolute nonsense of course. Like with a lot of relationships the "straight" guy is telling the other guy want they want to hear. The reality is they are at least bisexual and have probably had sex with many other guys before or after, whether they are married or not. So they are not straight guys converted for one night only no matter how much some people want to believe it.

These stats play perfectly into these fantasies but the vagueness of the statistics suggests an agenda.

Lol - going on about vague stats and then expecting us to believe your hilarious anecdotes and theories. That made me really laugh this morning.

smurgen · 17-11-2013 12:13PM

mango salsa wrote: »

Lol - going on about cagye stats and then expecting us to believe your anecdotes

Could you explain to me what the difference is between a bisexual man and the msm man?

Annasopra · 17-11-2013 12:14PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

But you seem to be completely denying that that MSN whatever about self assessed identity does fit into the broader category of bisexuality in terms of behaviour. Why is that a problem?
I don't consider somebody thats Bi any worse than somebody thats excursively straight or gay

A person that engages in sexual contact repeatably with another member of the same sex is displaying bisexual behavior that is bisexual.

I am a white cultural catholic irish male, each of those thing doesn;t ascribe my complete "identity" but each of them is true independent of the other.
Edit: I am no way an expert is defining anothers identity but who created the category of MSM? If your going to be technical about it did it ever feature as an MSN? the simple fact it is MSN fit into the category of bisexuality

Yes I am denying it because MSM doesn't fit into a category at all - MSM covers multiple people and identities. You don't understand at all what MSM means if you claim it can be categorised under bisexuality. It can't.

Also if you claim you are not an expert in defining other peoples identities why are you so insistent on doing so?

The simple fact is; there are men who define themselves as straight who have had sex with men in the past or who occasionally have sex with men at present. What gives you expertise to deny that person's identity?

Annasopra · 17-11-2013 12:15PM

dd972 wrote: »

Not at all, just ridiculing the folk devil status of two minorities that feature with tedious regularity on these boards and the pubs and public places of this country. There's more to life than Travellers and Gays.

It's simple. If you don't like the thread dont post in it.

Annasopra · 17-11-2013 12:19PM

smurgen wrote: »

Could you explain to me what the difference is between a bisexual man and the msm man?

MSM covers multiple categories and identities

gay men
bisexual men
straight men who have sex with men
and others

smurgen · 17-11-2013 12:28PM

mango salsa wrote: »

MSM covers multiple categories and identities

gay men
bisexual men
straight men who have sex with men
and others

I think you're trying to make this more mysterious and complicated than it is. On an individual level attraction and sexuality is a complicated for everyone,I have no idea why I'm attracted to some women,I just am. But on a macro level I think the catergories of straight,gay and bisexual work.

Mmmm_Lemony · 17-11-2013 12:29PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmwR9UW0ZTg

Annasopra · 17-11-2013 12:50PM

smurgen wrote: »

I think you're trying to make this more mysterious and complicated than it is. On an individual level attraction and sexuality is a complicated for everyone,I have no idea why I'm attracted to some women,I just am. But on a macro level I think the catergories of straight,gay and bisexual work.

You're entitled to think they work but the simple fact is they don't work. It's not me that is trying to make this complicated at all. I'm not sure why you think this is just me. The clear and unarguable fact is that there are many straight men who have sex with men. This is clearly recognised by both medical scientists and social scientists and because the strict categories of homosexual, heterosexual and bisexual simply do not work they came up with the term MSM.

Muahahaha · 17-11-2013 01:42PM

cloudatlas wrote: »

My friend tells me that grindr is full of married men. I think some people on here don't want it to be true. Maybe they're looking for an experience, perhaps they are looking for something their wife won't do, maybe they are actually gay and scared of societal pressure. My inclination is to believe this survey.

A mate of mine lives in an apartment above the Boiler Room gay sauna in Temple Bar. I often see men going in and out when I'm calling into him and I always try to get a glimpse of the ring finger. I'd say at least 30% of them have a ring on, I wonder how many remove it before they go in. Either way it is a very busy sauna, even on week nights. IME there are a lot of married men out there of all ages who like going with the opposite sex.

RossyG · 17-11-2013 02:19PM

The_Mask wrote: »

I find these figures absurd....think about your male group of friends can you really imagine 1/4 have slept with a man.

Yes. In fact, most of them have.

Muahahaha · 17-11-2013 02:20PM

rockbeast wrote: »

Having gone back to college in my old age, and studying Applied Market Research as part of the course, I can tell everyone that those stats are BS.

The full article said they used controls for demographics as per standard market research. They polled just over 1000 people which stastistically gives you a margin of error of +\- 3% on a population of 4m as you'll know. So I'm not sure why you're calling it BS, do you think Millward Brown just made the stats up? I worked for them both here and in Australia and I never seen them do that, very professional organisation from my experience.

RossyG · 17-11-2013 02:23PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

A mate of mine lives in an apartment above the Boiler Room gay sauna in Temple Bar. I often see men going in and out when I'm calling into him and I always try to get a glimpse of the ring finger. I'd say at least 30% of them have a ring on, I wonder how many remove it before they go in. Either way it is a very busy sauna, even on week nights. IME there are a lot of married men out there of all ages who like going with the opposite sex.

This certainly happens. A friend of mine currently sleeps with three married men, all in their twenties and all, for want of a better word, a bit chavvy.

And they're the ones who take it.

It's a well-known fact amongst Brighton's gay community that straight young men often head for the saunas and gay bars when their unsuspecting wives and girlfriends are out shopping.

And how shall I put this? While anal is actually moderately rare between gay couples, these part-time bisexual men are primarily interested in that, and from a different position (ie. passive) than you think.

up for anything · 17-11-2013 02:49PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

The use of the f word about gay people in Ireland is widely used and no one seems to care.

I presume you mean ****** by the 'F' word in this instance. Honestly, in the last ten years I haven't heard that word used except by a few snot nosed schoolboys and by lots and lots of gay men referring to themselves or each other. Perhaps the same way that black rap singers use it a lot in order to 'own' it or whatever the current psychobabble phrase is.

25% of Irish men in their 20s have slept with another man

Comments