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Examiner: Gardaí investigate forum comments about Roma

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Comments

  • #32
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »
    What could be better a way than investigating crime?:confused:

    Anything is a crime if declared a crime, of course. So that would justify any totalitarian regime.


  • #33
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    The Roma need to hire a good PR company, I have never heard a positive news story about them, it's always negative.


  • #34
    Wright
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭Wright


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    Anything is a crime if declared a crime, of course. So that would justify any totalitarian regime.

    Sure didn't Obama push legislation through that makes the United States a 'combat zone'. :D


  • #35
    NuckingFacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭NuckingFacker


    I find they don't use enough garlic in their garlic and tomato pasta sauce, but I've yet to be that annoyed by it to start looking for them to be shot. Poked with a small stick, or subject to a strongly worded e-mail maybe. Those footballers were probably a bit more into their cooking.


  • #36
    valknut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 129 ✭✭valknut


    Does anybody have a link to an article that shows where large groups of Roma have integrated and prospered in Europe?


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  • #37
    Tombi!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombi!


    Wright wrote: »
    Well then that would be absolutely fair enough. Any chance to prevent crime from happening in the first place should be a police priority.

    I guess that's the problem with this story, we just don't know.

    So why did you assume it was a waste of time?


  • #38
    Wright
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭Wright


    Brutal Deluxe wrote: »
    So why did you assume it was a waste of time?

    Because if it was a case that a threat was made, the article would have mentioned that.

    I'm just saying I'm open to being wrong about this, but it doesn't look like anything worthy of police attention happened here.


  • #39
    Tombi!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombi!


    Wright wrote: »
    Because if it was a case that a threat was made, the article would have mentioned that.

    I'm just saying I'm open to being wrong about this, but it doesn't look like anything worthy of police attention happened here.

    They don't normally say what was said though, do they?


  • #40
    0ph0rce0
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,303 ✭✭✭0ph0rce0


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    The Roma need to hire a good PR company, I have never heard a positive news story about them, it's always negative.

    Because 99.9% of them are "________________________"

    I'll get in trouble if i fill in the blank :rolleyes:


  • #41
    humbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    Incitement to hatred seems to mean expressing thoughts we don't think are OK. You don't really have to do any inciting, as it says in the article, just has to be generally racist.

    I'm very very uncomfortable with governments monitoring internet discussion, checking to see if it is acceptable.


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  • #42
    LionelNashe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,958 ✭✭✭LionelNashe


    Brutal Deluxe wrote: »
    The details aren't given.
    Sure, if I post "ah f**l the Romas, bunch of scum" and the Gardaí investigate that then I think most people would agree it's a waste of time.
    For all we know it could have been a plot to go on a gangbeating of a bunch of street beggars that might be Romas or not.

    Actually, there are some details in the Examiner article:
    "Alleged remarks referred to the Roma as "vermin" and advised people to keep an eye on their blonde children. Another post referred to two Roma producing a "blonde pup"."

    An "animal sports website", I'm guessing, wouldn't have as much resources for moderation as Boards. It's not good to see the site risking legal issues over some aresholes posting that kind of comment. It would be nice to see the posters facing some consequences.


  • #43
    Tombi!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombi!


    LionelNashe wrote: »
    Actually, there are some details in the Examiner article:
    "Alleged remarks referred to the Roma as "vermin" and advised people to keep an eye on their blonde children. Another post referred to two Roma producing a "blonde pup"."

    An "animal sports website", I'm guessing, wouldn't have as much resources for moderation as Boards. It's not good to see the site risking legal issues over some aresholes posting that kind of comment. It would be nice to see the posters facing some consequences.

    Yes... well uh... I'm blind.
    Thanks for that.

    In that case I don't see the problem really. It's gone beyond expressing dislike and most people consider vermin nothing more than something to be killed.


  • #44
    Red Nissan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭Red Nissan


    LionelNashe wrote: »
    It's not good to see the site risking legal issues over some aresholes posting that kind of comment. It would be nice to see the posters facing some consequences.

    This can be construed as inciting people to as well, don't forget. Your post was fine until you qualified it, it's usually these qualifications that start the riots on boards.


  • #45
    0ph0rce0
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,303 ✭✭✭0ph0rce0


    LionelNashe wrote: »
    Actually, there are some details in the Examiner article:
    "Alleged remarks referred to the Roma as "vermin" and advised people to keep an eye on their blonde children. Another post referred to two Roma producing a "blonde pup"."

    An "animal sports website", I'm guessing, wouldn't have as much resources for moderation as Boards. It's not good to see the site risking legal issues over some aresholes posting that kind of comment. It would be nice to see the posters facing some consequences.

    Fair enough about the child thing.

    But they are pretty much all like pigeons

    VERMIN


  • #46
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Just so people understand the law http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/en/act/pub/0019/sec0002.html#sec2

    To the best of my knowledge there has been none or only a few prosecutions under the act.

    "“hatred” means hatred against a group of persons in the State or elsewhere on account of their race, colour, nationality, religion, ethnic or national origins, membership of the travelling community or sexual orientation;"


  • #47
    0ph0rce0
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,303 ✭✭✭0ph0rce0


    infosys wrote: »
    Just so people understand the law http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/en/act/pub/0019/sec0002.html#sec2

    To the best of my knowledge there has been none or only a few prosecutions under the act.

    "“hatred” means hatred against a group of persons in the State or elsewhere on account of their race, colour, nationality, religion, ethnic or national origins, membership of the travelling community or sexual orientation;"

    Well i dont hate them for any of the above reasons.

    I just hate them because i do.

    Cant get in trouble for that can i ?


  • #48
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    0ph0rce0 wrote: »
    Well i dont hate them for any of the above reasons.

    I just hate them because i do.

    Cant get in trouble for that can i ?

    Getting into trouble (being before a court) maybe, being found guilty well that would be up to the Judge or Jury based on all the evidence. But a person who admits to hate for a particular group and invites others to the same just because he hates in my opinion could be found guilty.


  • #49
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    0ph0rce0 wrote: »
    Well i dont hate them for any of the above reasons.

    I just hate them because i do.

    Cant get in trouble for that can i ?

    Why you hate them is wholly irrelevant, inciting others to hatred against any of the named groups is a serious criminal offence however.


  • #50
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »
    Why you hate them is wholly irrelevant, inciting others to hatred against any of the named groups is a serious criminal offence however.

    What would incitement mean. Is it just criticism, or actual incitement to violence? The latter I get - the former - well that's policing bad speech.


  • #51
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    infosys wrote: »
    Getting into trouble (being before a court) maybe, being found guilty well that would be up to the Judge or Jury based on all the evidence. But a person who admits to hate for a particular group and invites others to the same just because he hates in my opinion could be found guilty.

    It's surprising the entire population of Northern Ireland isn't all in jail.


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  • #52
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Also surely the texts of most religions are hate filled. Are religions exempt?


  • #53
    Red Nissan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭Red Nissan


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    Also surely the texts of most religions are hate filled. Are religions exempt?

    See the Swedish Islam thread.


  • #54
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    What would incitement mean. Is it just criticism, or actual incitement to violence? The latter I get - the former - well that's policing bad speech.
    Incitement to hatred, criticism is fair , saying something that generalizes a group in such negative terms that it would incite others to hate them is something else.

    Saying Travellers/Roma/Africans/ Gayss /whomever, are scum/vermin/filth etc , and should shot/burned/spat on etc is not opinion or criticism, it is incitement to hatred.


  • #55
    Sigourney
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭Sigourney


    Better than Dolmio.


  • #56
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    Also surely the texts of most religions are hate filled. Are religions exempt?

    Such as?
    In any event the Incitement to Hatred Act deals with individuals and organizations.
    If a religious leader from any religion promoted or incited hatred against any group then they should be prosecuted.


  • #57
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    Red Nissan wrote: »
    See the Swedish Islam thread.

    The only incitement in thread appears to by extremists towards Muslims.


  • #58
    Red Nissan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭Red Nissan


    Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »
    Saying Travellers/Roma/Africans/ Gayss /whomever, are scum/vermin/filth etc , and should shot/burned/spat on etc is not opinion or criticism, it is incitement to hatred.

    Yes, absolutely and I agree with the clampdown on boards, however it must go further and include "arsholes" "scumbags" and "have you a link for that" in banned terminology.


  • #59
    Red Nissan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭Red Nissan


    Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »
    The only incitement in thread appears to by extremists towards Muslims.

    Well, actually in the "Scandinavian Islam" thread a video shows an extremist Muslim Group openly saying they owe NO allegiance to the UK Government or the Police.

    But that's in that thread, do pop over, if you're not already there. :)


  • #60
    Rod Serling
    Closed Accounts Posts: 131 ✭✭Rod Serling


    Glad the gardai are using their time wisely. No sense tackling any of the real problems in Ireland like rampant drug dealing, burglaries and muggings when someone on a small Irish forum said something mean about someone else.


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  • #61
    humbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »
    Saying Travellers/Roma/Africans/ Gayss /whomever, are scum/vermin/filth etc , and should shot/burned/spat on etc is not opinion or criticism, it is incitement to hatred.
    I would say that it is opinion. It straddles the line between
    "Travellers/Roma/Africans/ Gayss /whomever, are scum/vermin/filth etc , and I think they should shot/burned/spat on."
    which is certainly opinion and
    "Travellers/Roma/Africans/ Gayss /whomever, are scum/vermin/filth etc , and you/we should shoot/burn/spat on them"
    which is incitement.


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